Why is everyone so opposed to having Smash Balls in competitive play?

[Pikachu'sBlueWizardHat]

Here are what I think are the two most common arguments:

1. "Smash Balls are random"
Well there are a lot of random elements in this game. I don't see how anyone can complain about randomness in Brawl when any character can trip at any time, for no reason at all. Not to mention some characters have inherently random attacks.

2. "Final Smashes are too unbalancing"
It's true that some character's FSs are stronger than others, but it's also true that some characters in general are better than others. And we don't automatically ban the strongest characters because they are the strongest; we find ways to beat them.

If we can get past these two things, I would argue that leaving Smash Balls in (but no other items) would actually add an interesting new dimension to competitive Smash.

Let's say in a 1v1 game on Final Destination, both players are in the middle duking it out, and a Smash Ball appears in the air above them. The way I see it, one of 3 things can happen:
a) Both players scramble to hit the Smash Ball as much as possible. The chance of either player getting it is more or less even.
b) Player 1 goes for the Smash Ball, but player 2 continues attacking player 1 and knocks him away. Now Player 2 basically has a free shot at his FS.
c) Neither player goes for it and the fighting continues until one of them can attempt to break it unmolested.

Of course the Smash Ball isn't just sitting still during all of this; it floats around. So maybe player 1 (let's say Marth) knocks player 2 (Lucario) over to the right, while the Smash Ball floats to the right. Lucario is closer to it, but if he's careless and hits the ball over to the left, Marth will probably get it instead.

But if he hits it to the right, the ball is most likely not broken yet, and Lucario is in an interesting position. He's put some distance between Marth and the Smash Ball. Now Marth will most likely be advancing toward the right as much as possible because a) he wants the FS or b) he wants Lucario not to get his FS. And Lucario can either a) try and get the FS himself or b) attack Marth and keep him away from it as long as possible. But if he tries to stall for too long, the Smash Ball may float out of reach, and come back down in a different position where Marth will be able to get it.

Now, there's a reason I chose Marth and Lucario for this example. We can all agree that Lucario's FS is more or less useless in 1v1, while Marth's is arguably one of the strongest. So the Lucario player wouldn't care as much about getting his FS, as he would preventing the opponent from getting his. Similarly, Marth wants to go right for the Smash Ball as soon as he sees it.

In this way the addition of the FS would lead to a very different way to play certain characters. From what I understand, Sonic is not very good, yet no one can argue how formidable his FS is. So a Sonic player might play the standard Sonic way (however that is) or he might play more defensive, trying to avoid damage until the Smash Ball appears. Then he can use his superior speed to try and beat his opponent to it, and thus get his kills that way. It would be kind of lame, but is it any more lame than an overly campy Toon Link or Pit? And hopefully we're playing on a neutral enough stage, one that's not too big for Sonic to completely avoid confrontation.

Finally, none of the Final Smashes are completely unavoidable, so it's not exactly like getting one = instant kill for you. And they're all unique attacks that we're robbing the characters of by not including them.

There were probably some other things I wanted to say, but I forget what they were. But basically, it's obvious at this point that Brawl is not Melee and it never will be, so why not mix things up a little bit? Brawl is already different from Melee, and adding Smash Balls (on Low, of course) adds a new dimension to the game, and a new way to play it.

At the very least we should give it a try.

 

[Freezrbrn]

*applauds* My thoughts exactly. Great example.

 

[Ojanya]

This game is messed up enough with randomness. We're trying to DECREASE randomness, not increase, and any increased randomness would hurt competitive play. If some casuals want to do this, who cares. It will never catch on to hardcore smash.


It would unbalance the game a ton as well. If one player can get a 1HKO everyone minutes thirty seconds, and one character can do 30%, which is more fair?

 

[berserker515]

LANDMASTERRRRRRRR!!!! nuff said.

 

[TheManaLord]

Because, just like any other item, the happening of a smash ball is RANDOM. Let's look at some situations. One player is beating on another, a small ball appears right in the path that the two characters are battling, the one that is winning gets the final smash and activates it. How is that fair? In reverse, a smash ball appears way out towards the edge of the stage, a defeated player is barely recovering back onto the stage and gets the smash ball in the process, again, where's the fairness in that?

It also turns the game into an entirely different style of play, instead of fighting, you'll either be reduced to chasing the glowing ball or trying to stop your opponent from snagging it, sounds like a mini game in some rehashed nintendo party series as opposed the fighting game that it represents in competitive play.

Understand?

 

[Twin Dreams]

Ok, OP. (sorry, I didn't take time to take your name down and I'm too lazy to scroll up.)



How would you feel if you entered a tournament?

You're doin' pretty well. You advance a couple matches. (As you suggest, we'll have Smash Balls on random.)


You get to the final match of the tournament. During the match, all of the smash balls spawn in the vicinity of your opponent. Any time you are far away. How is that fair for you? You would honestly agree to joining a contest where the opponent will have access to something that you never have access to?

 

[Ørion]

1. "Smash Balls are random"
Well there are a lot of random elements in this game. I don't see how anyone can complain about randomness in Brawl when any character can trip at any time, for no reason at all. Not to mention some characters have inherently random attacks.

Tournaments try to eliminate the randomness as much as possible. They do not allow items or stages with significant random events. They undoubtedly would take out tripping if this was possible and many players are upset at its randomness.

2. "Final Smashes are too unbalancing"
It's true that some character's FSs are stronger than others, but it's also true that some characters in general are better than others. And we don't automatically ban the strongest characters because they are the strongest; we find ways to beat them.

Characters that are stronger are often weaker in other ways, such as lacking speed or a good B-Up. The smash balls are obviously unbalanced. Compare Olimar's to someone like zamus. With zamus, it is arguable that getting back to the suit is the reward, but I actually much prefer zamus, so my final smash can do 25% max if the opponent is right there.

 

[fransisco4]

DK vs Marth on FD. Marth knock DK to the left while a SB appears on the right. He can get it while DK recovers. Kill him normally and have a second KO assured(??).

 

[n3g4t1v3]

This game is messed up enough with randomness. We're trying to DECREASE randomness, not increase, and any increased randomness would hurt competitive play. If some casuals want to do this, who cares. It will never catch on to hardcore smash.


It would unbalance the game a ton as well. If one player can get a 1HKO everyone minutes thirty seconds, and one character can do 30%, which is more fair?

KIRBY! GET IN MEH SOUP!

 

[Xebenkeck]

Not to mention there would be a lot more kirby use, bcuz his stone negate more than half the final smashes with its invulrability

 

[Rufeo]

With final smashes, why would you want to use lucario if his FS sucks so bad. and about none of them being unavoidable, I bet ones that have some sort of continuous attack like samus' beam can be done in the right position at the right time to make so. Then what do you do about wolf players using his reflector to dodge certain FS while still having an insanely good one?

 

[itsameSMB]

It's because most people hate having fun

Seriously, nice post. I feel the same way.

 

[Meta Ryu]

Smash balls are random, but are a part of the game. What I personally try to do when items are on is take out all the stupid/over powered items (I'm looking at you dragoon) try to leave in as few as possible. However people often argue that items should be left on, at least in some capacity because some characters are said to need them to be used to their fullest.

Basiaclly though, if your'e using items you should try to aim for a smash ball a minute on average. The appearence of one is random, but IS mitigated by adding other tiems.

Smoke ball, Transformation items, Battering items, and containers are a pretty good start. Anything you use is up to your discretion, but if it's true some characters (like Kirby that were made as an example) need items, then perhaps we should leave items on.

(at least some of the time

 

[Pseudoshot]

Let's see... if you're on your last stock and smash ball randomly appears, the person with a movable final smash will win. No contest.
Obviously, all final smashes do have their kill potential, but say the match is between a wolf and marth.
If marth gets the final smash, a smart wolf will probably camp/evade the marth and knock it out of him.
If wolf gets the final smash, marth can't do sh** cause the wolf's final smash isn't stationary or dodgeable.
Sure, you can argue that the person who breaks the smash ball is more skilled, but you can see that each character's final smash would COMPLETELY change the aspect of play.
for example, NOBODY would choose those with the stationary/dodgeable final smashes, such as marth, ike or even zelda/shiek because their final smashes can be evaded.
Instead, everybody would be choosing wario, wolf, bowser, and those final smash that do not have a serious effect on movement.
Argue that that may increase variety in the game for the other characters, but you're also taking away even more from the already low technical level Brawl is currently at.

 

[The Dinkoman]

as I would put it: sonic + Smash Ball = shinyyyyyy...
——————
"being 'stupid' is something to be proud of... 'cause thats smart compared to me"

 

[cobaltblue]

I aprove of this topic. Then again I'm a sonic-aholic.

TC go watch pros play and please explain to me how a smash ball in their hands would not be gg.

 

[Yuna]

Here are what I think are the two most common arguments:

Excuse me while I p0wn you.

1. "Smash Balls are random"
Well there are a lot of random elements in this game. I don't see how anyone can complain about randomness in Brawl when any character can trip at any time, for no reason at all. Not to mention some characters have inherently random attacks.

Said random attacks do not randomly come out without the opponent being able to stop you. If they simply keep the pressure up, you won't be able to pull them out. No one can stop an FS from spawning if it's turned on.

Also, you can dodge said random-based attacks, they only hit once and are over fast. And they are also not broken (I'll go more into that later)... the randomness does in no way unbalance the game so that people have to play as the "random" characters to win.

The most important part is: What else are we going to do, ban the characters?

If a stage is too random, we ban it. Short of banning characters, there's nothing we can do with random moves. But again, they're just minor. The effects of the random moves are not that large. Why was Game & Watch still so low on the Tier List despite having a killer random attack? Because it just wasn't that good.

2. "Final Smashes are too unbalancing"
It's true that some character's FSs are stronger than others, but it's also true that some characters in general are better than others. And we don't automatically ban the strongest characters because they are the strongest; we find ways to beat them.

Some characters' Final Smashes are just so good if we allow them, tournament play would literaly devolve into only 3 or so characters being played in tournaments (or at least standing even a remote chance at winning).

I'll use Marth's FS as an example. I does 70% of damage (70% of damage) and then finishes with a super-strong move with a huge knockback. That means that on any given stage that's not banned because of size, you'll die at 0%! Not bad enough? It's also got everything else that Final Smashes have (specified later) and you can combo into it from at least 5 different moves!

And don't give me the bull crap of him dying if he's in the air. No Marth worth his salt should use it in the air when there's a risk of it whiffing.

If we can get past these two things, I would argue that leaving Smash Balls in (but no other items) would actually add an interesting new dimension to competitive Smash.

We can't, move on.

Let's say in a 1v1 game on Final Destination, both players are in the middle duking it out, and a Smash Ball appears in the air above them. The way I see it, one of 3 things can happen:
a) Both players scramble to hit the Smash Ball as much as possible. The chance of either player getting it is more or less even.
b) Player 1 goes for the Smash Ball, but player 2 continues attacking player 1 and knocks him away. Now Player 2 basically has a free shot at his FS.
c) Neither player goes for it and the fighting continues until one of them can attempt to break it unmolested.

The game would revolve around Final Smashes. People would pick characters with the best Final Smashes and once they spawned, it would be all about who gets it. Tournaments would literally be decided by Final Smashes alone most of the time.

There are many other possible (and stupid) scenarios as well. You and me are fighting. I knock you off stage. A Final Smashes appears right above me and I have enough time to get it before you even make it back on stage.

Now, there's a reason I chose Marth and Lucario for this example. We can all agree that Lucario's FS is more or less useless in 1v1, while Marth's is arguably one of the strongest. So the Lucario player wouldn't care as much about getting his FS, as he would preventing the opponent from getting his. Similarly, Marth wants to go right for the Smash Ball as soon as he sees it.

The best way to assure that your opponent doesn't get it so to actually go and get it. Samus players would be screwed. What if they just don't want to learn ZSS? Too bad, they have to since they'll need to grap that Smash Ball and use it to prevent their opponent from using it.

In this way the addition of the FS would lead to a very different way to play certain characters. From what I understand, Sonic is not very good, yet no one can argue how formidable his FS is. So a Sonic player might play the standard Sonic way (however that is) or he might play more defensive, trying to avoid damage until the Smash Ball appears. Then he can use his superior speed to try and beat his opponent to it, and thus get his kills that way. It would be kind of lame, but is it any more lame than an overly campy Toon Link or Pit? And hopefully we're playing on a neutral enough stage, one that's not too big for Sonic to completely avoid confrontation.

So you're basically advocating camping and Smash Ball camping, having games and tournaments decided primarily by FS:es? Good show.

Finally, none of the Final Smashes are completely unavoidable, so it's not exactly like getting one = instant kill for you. And they're all unique attacks that we're robbing the characters of by not including them.

One actually is; Ice Climbers'. Unless you have frame-perfect timing and are camping the edge (at which point you're susceptible to the IC's edgeguarding you), you're going to take damage from it. Some FS:es also damage you even if you don't get hit by the opponent (Peach, Meta-Knight).

Also, some of them, some of which kill at 0% can be comboed into (Marth, Link, Toon Link, Zelda, Sheik, among others).

There were probably some other things I wanted to say, but I forget what they were. But basically, it's obvious at this point that Brawl is not Melee and it never will be, so why not mix things up a little bit? Brawl is already different from Melee, and adding Smash Balls (on Low, of course) adds a new dimension to the game, and a new way to play it.

At the very least we should give it a try.

It's painfully obvious you haven't researched how FS:es work in the least.

This is how FS:es work. For every single character in the game, from the frame you Hit B and 'til at least once the FS:es hitbox has disappeared, you're complete invincible (save for Pit, who is only invincible while activating his FS, which is actually worse than if he were to just stand around while Palutena's Army attacks since now you'll have to dodge the army and Pit). Wario and Sonic are prime examples of this. They can lunge at you quite a long period of time and all you can do is do your best to avoid them!

Final Smashes are also unblockable (except for a handful, but they just break your shield really fast).

This means that once your opponent has an FS, approaching him is out of the question! If you try to hit him, he can just B and kick your *** into infinity! Some people have huge hitboxes on their FS:es like Ike's. If you go anywhere near him, he can just B you. Zero Suit Samus' sucks you in (but the hit isn't very strong). Even if you throw out a move before he hits B, your move might not activate in time to hit him before his FS activates and even if you hit him, it might not even knock the FS out of him, giving him another shot in the air (since this game has next to zero hitstun) while you're still lagging from your attack!

Heck, even if you manage to get an attack out, they can just shield it and then drop their shield and B you in the face since there's no shieldstun in this game!

For a good number of FS:es, you literally can't go anywhere near your opponent past a certain damage percentages without a serious risk of losing a stock.

And while you can't approach your opponent safely, they can still approach you. So the opponent just crippled you! He can still rush you down and try to beat you to death but if you leave even the smallest opening, he can kill you (most of the time)! That is if he can't just combo you into it!

Then there's the part where if they manage to knock you off the stage, you'll have to recover onto the ledge. While on the ledge, you'll be susceptible to edgeguarding. If you make it back, chances are, you'll be at a huge disadvantage. They can either grab you, jab you, poke you or FS you. What are you going to do? You're going to eat it! If they Smash or poke you hard enough, you'll drop down back to the edge and be forced to try to make it back onto the stage unharmed. If they time their FS, you won't be able to sidestep or spotdodge it if you got up by rolling, simply getting up or attacking. If you mistime a spotdodge or a roll, they can FS you.

The FS is the ultimate camping tool. Ahead in stocks? Just camp with it and wait for your opponent to dare to approach you and screw up and wham, they're dead. Heck, since this game's got buffed rolls and spotdodges, you can even spotdodge and roll attacks into Final Smashes!

Competitive gameplay would devolve into nothingness. The game already promotes camping. Competitive Brawl is already largely about camping. With FS:es involved, camping would be all competitive Brawl consisted of! And then whoever grabs the most FS:es will win!

We'll see less characters being used (much, much, much less). Pikmin & Olimar are Top Tier-material normally. But with FS:es turned on, he pales in comparison with Marth and Toon Link. Hence, he's out of the question.

Marth and Toon Link are Top Tier even without FS:es. With FS:es, they're beasts. Tournament play would devolve into people whoring Marth, Toon Link and a small handful of other characters. Those who play as other characters wouldn't stand even a remote chance of making Top15!

Even on the lowest setting, FS:es also spawn way too often!

What kind of games would this spawn? I'll tell you what kind of games:
Games where people camp back and forth and then one side grabs a Smash Ball. He'll either start camping or the opponent will start camping in order to somehow open up the opponent enough to try to knock the Smash Ball out of them. The one without the Smash Ball would be at a severe disadvantage as any player worth their salt won't easily let the opponent knock the Smash Ball out of them.

Camping on both sides. If the one without the Smash Ball is lucky, he'll knock it out of his opponent. If he's not, he'll lose a stock. Then the opponent gets another Smash Ball. And the game has pretty much been lost.

No, FS:es cannot and will not be allowed in tournaments. If you analyse how they work (which you and many others in this thread and others obviously haven't), you'll see why!

 

[Fletch]

*POST*

Yuna just completely owned this thread. If you ever think that Smash balls will have a place in the competitive scene, you simply do not have any understanding of competitive gaming and anyone agreeing with the OP should really reconsider their opinions if they even think it's remotely that this will happen.

 

[MidniteBlaze]

I'm going to give a good example of why smash ball generally won't be ok for competitive play. Peach vs. Fox/Falco/Wolf. When it comes time for smash balls, you tell me who would win. Skill with Peach would mean nothing, once that landmaster comes out it's a guaranteed one or possibly two kills more than likely. Same could be said for Olimar with his ridiculously good smash. The FSes are imbalanced, simply put.

 

[IkarusChild]

i would agree

 

[Dark Sonic]

And don't give me the bull crap of him dying if he's in the air. No Marth worth his salt should use it in the air when there's a risk of it whiffing.

The following is directed at the majority of brawl players

Marth can cancel his FS by pressing B.


WHY DO PEOPLE STILL NOT KNOW THIS!

 

[TheManaLord]

Because the people who advocate them apparently don't even use them or know anything about them! What a surprise.

 

[urafatrodent]

Parden the french, but **** no!

1. If you make final smashes the only item, it will be (surprise) the only item. Meaning that even if you put items on low it will appear absurdly often. essentialy it turns the game into a "final shash fight", meaning its a battle of who can happen to get an item and unleash more absurd, overpowered, and "skill-not-nessesary" attacks. That is not my idea of fun personally, and I dont see how that can be justified in a tournament setting.

2. One thing that I absolutly love about this game is the BALANCE. apart from a few straglers in a wide variety of characters, everyone has potential to win without being severly limited by their natural "suck factor", and I find that makes the game extreamly enjoyable.
until you consider the final smashes.
Just compare PK Starstorm/Marth to Zamus/Kirby cooking pot. you tell me that is balanced. it most certainly is not.
you shouldnt ruin the natural balance of this game with these overpowered attacks that take no skill to abuse, not to mention the fact that they are not balanced.

If you want to play an absurd game where everyone dies too much and you need absolutly no skill to play, go play Crazy Fiesta in Halo (also known as make everything random).


sorry if i said anything someone else said, i didnt check everyone's opinions in that much detail.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Just compare Ness/DK to Marth/Falco you tell me that is balanced. it most certainly is not.

Fixed.

Marth's FS is one of the best in the game. One hit KO that can be combo'd into and is really fast? That's amazing.

Falco's can get 3 KOs on the same character though so...Falco for best FS.

 

[TheManaLord]

Yeah, and some Final Smashes render the person INVINCIBLE. There is no semblance of fairness in that.

 

[R i p]

There are many reasons why Smash Balls and Final Smashes are bad for gameplay(aside from ****ing around of course, but that's not what we are talking about of course). I'm only going to mention one(consider this being kind, because really I could be here all day):

It ruins any chance of game balance. I know you brought this up, but you are obviously are understating it.

Allowing Hammers is more balancing than Final Smashes. Easier to avoid, easier to counter, and equal potency for everyone. It's what Final Smashes was advertised as and what it should have been, but is certainly not.

 

[AmigoOne]

^^
Like Wolf's reflector? Albeit the amount of time?

 

[DeathNote]

Let me put it this way

Most FS will never KO.

Some get one KO

Landmaster ALWAYS will net at least two KO's if the player is good enough at controlling it. Kill them, and then do the massive jump to kill them as they respawn.


We dont ban characters, but this is just too imbalanced.

Come on, do you really want to see Fox + Falco being the only ones ever used again?

Oh, and I am in a brawl tourney (unofficial one) that uses Final Smashes on. (It is on another site, not related to brawl)

It is not competitive at all. It does become a battle as to who gets the FSmash first, and sometimes the ball will appear closer to someone... yeah that is really fair

 

[SharkAttack]

Yeah, and some Final Smashes render the person INVINCIBLE. There is no semblance of fairness in that.

This is one of the main reasons why I hate Smashballs. To add insult to injury most are undodgeable and a KO is almost always for certain; especially if the person who activated it can obtain it for a long period of time.

Like others already mentioned they take can take away the fun of a battle because instead of 2 oponents fighting each other in a close match they are instead fighting to get the smashball. Lastly, player 1 could have beaten the smashball down ridiculously crazy and for some reason didn't activate it while player 2 just taps it and gets it instantly.

 

[SFJake]

Smashballs are FRUSTRATING. Even in friendly, fun matches, they ruin it. I have absolutely NO problem in playing my best and losing. However, when I lose because of a smashballs the other guy got before me, or an overpowered FS, I can't describe how stupid that is.

Thinking of bringing that to a competitive level is even more ridiculous. Can't have at least half a brain and think its a good idea. Even items could go well (not all) for competition, I mean they could be "considered" in some way, but Smashballs? Thats justs dumb.

 

[SothE700k]

Not another one trying to pull this off. I love how people try saying bringing in items of any kind IS the competitive way of playing....I won't bother with reasons because they obviously aren't fitting into their skulls.

As an analogy I would like to borrow from someone I saw using for an argument like this: Boxers are trained to use their fists and their abilities with their fists for fights. Makes it a clean/even fight based on skill. But if you throw in a gun into the ring, all skill is thrown out the window as whoever gets the gun has automatically won the fight. Where's the skill in that? Its even more "fair" when the gun lands right next to your opponent so he has it right then and there to shoot you with!
Apply this to the FS. Someone gets it, he has the gun and you're defenseless (when it comes to a good FS). You wouldn't like that would you? Neither would any of us.

Credit to whoever made that on these boards.

 

[Golem the Stern Father]

^Soth, you live in Aurora? I live in Naperville. Small world ^

Since it gives you an attack as powerful as the name Final Smash implies...

The game-changing Final Smash.

Simple. They're too powerful!

 

[bnestman]

First match I ever played against someone in Brawl...towards the end of the match we were down to one stock each, (I was T.Link) and we had items on...smash ball appeared and I got to the smash ball first...used my final smash...ko'd him. And immediatly suggested a rematch taking all items off. I don't even like when I win because of one, let alone if I lost a match because of one.

 

[IceEmblem]

Actually there is not to much random in competetive play, since we have no items and all of the unpredictable stages are banned.
Also the characters are balanced they all have pro's and cons, while smash balls are, and the fact is that the fastest character with the best jump will always get it.

 

[Pikachu'sBlueWizardHat]

Well you guys make a lot of good points, even though it looks like none of you are even willing to give it a try

For the sake of clarity, though, I have to pose another question to you. For tournament play, which of the following scenarios would be more acceptable?

a) All the final smashes remain unchanged, but a marker would indicate where and when the Smash Ball would appear. The marker would stay right in the middle of both players until the moment the Smash Ball appeared, then it would stay stationary. Then the first person who hit it, with any attack, would get the FS. In other words, both players would have an equal chance to get their FS.

or

b) The Smash Ball mechanics remain unchanged, but all the Final Smashes are balanced (somehow) so that they are all moderately effective and nothing more, I.E. none of them would be guaranteed kills and all of them would be capable of killing with proper usage. Forget the specifics, just in terms of overall capability they would all be the same, and none of them overpowered.

In other words, is it the Final Smashes or the Smash Balls themselves that turn you off to this idea? Most of you are speaking as if they're the same thing, but there's a subtle difference that I want to make sure you're aware of. And I understand that it doesn't matter either way, I'm just curious to know.

 

[SothE700k]

Smash balls OFF. ITEMS OFF.

Clear now?

 

[D.A.N.]

Well there are a lot of random elements in this game. I don't see how anyone can complain about randomness in Brawl when any character can trip at any time, for no reason at all. Not to mention some characters have inherently random attacks.

Tripping can't be controlled, Smash Balls can.

It's true that some character's FSs are stronger than others, but it's also true that some characters in general are better than others. And we don't automatically ban the strongest characters because they are the strongest; we find ways to beat them.

Yeah, the difference is that all people will be doing is picking Snake, Marth, or Sonic and running away waiting for a Smash Ball to appear if they have a good Final Smash.

Smash Balls are items, just like home-run bats or hammers. They appear randomly, are unbalanced, and have no place in a competitive scene. The only reason anyone wants them is because they're cool looking special moves for the character.

 

[bnestman]

Maybe it would be cool if everyone had a landmastah!!! and everyone started with one final smash to use in the match whenever they wanted.

 

[DragonBlade]

There have been several threads about this. Its really not necessary for every noob to have a new thread for expressing their ignorance of the game. All of these threads go like:

noob1: [same old generic arguements noobs have, which have been responded to time and time again]
antinoob1: [typical logical counter example which has also been used the last time someone brought it up]
Yuna: [classic Yuna post with flawless logic assessing every point in the main argument]
noob2: [nearly cliche response agreeing with noob1, while completely ignoring the above two]

It just degrades the quality of the forums, imo.

 

[Pikachu'sBlueWizardHat]

There have been several threads about this. Its really not necessary for every noob to have a new thread for expressing their ignorance of the game. All of these threads go like:

noob1: [same old generic arguements noobs have, which have been responded to time and time again]
antinoob1: [typical logical counter example which has also been used the last time someone brought it up]
Yuna: [classic Yuna post with flawless logic assessing every point in the main argument]
noob2: [nearly cliche response agreeing with noob1, while completely ignoring the above two]

It just degrades the quality of the forums, imo.

You forgot the poster who chooses to make it known that he thinks the thread is pointless and stupid, instead of actually contributing to the discussion, or skipping over the thread entirely.

Now guess which one you are.