Event - Apex 2015 Why is Brawl not being streamed this Apex?

[Gliffie]

They are tearing me apart on reddit.

Reddit is always a drama queen. Last year's stream was run great and I hope you'll be back next year.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Meanwhile, in the Brawl stream, we have Meta Knight players taking the lead and then running out the clock while camping. How can you not be horribly embarrassed by this? Why do people wanna watch this?

 

[Tugnus]

"My preference is better than yours"

Grow up, some people like the tense setting of these sets. Don't like it? Well ****, you still have Melee to watch. What the hell do people achieve with unnecessary degrading comments

Meh its only preference to a certain extent. There is quality and depth of game play. It's like comparing a Kobe Beef Ribeye vs that thin slice of sirloin you get at a diner. One of them is obviously higher quality.

My preference isn't "better," it just demands higher quality You go ahead and keep telling yourself the sirloin is better.

 

[Heefe]

I'm really trying... I really am... but it's just so god damn boring to watch the Brawl finals right now and those ridiculous commentators acting like there is some uber hype going on. It's so fake. Just look at the chat, nobody excited. At least ban MK for the sake of streaming this game and making it somehow interesting.

 

[Tugnus]

Brawl finals has 9.3k viewers. I don't know how the hell Brawl got 16k views last year, if it actually did.

It's also funny that you use youtube views as the way to rank the games. Smash 64 GF Apex 2013 has 120k views also beating out melee and you're gonna say 64 is more popular as well?

Everyone watching the Brawl GF is just waiting for the Melee top 8 to start and got here early so not to miss anything. Just read the comments. The hate is hilarious and the butthurt responses are almost as amazing as yours OP.

 

[Sariku]

I respect whatever people want to play and enjoy, but the only people interested in the Brawl top 8 are the competitors and the commentators. Everyone else is only cheering for the players cause when stuff happens it means we are closer to Melee.

Sorry that you're being thrown under the bus, Jaxel. You're doing great and getting matches on stream for the game people enjoy to watch is by far superior to dead air.

Hopefully Smash 4 can find a happy medium between this split community.

 

[Tugnus]

I respect whatever people want to play and enjoy, but the only people interested in the Brawl top 8 are the competitors and the commentators. Everyone else is only cheering for the players cause when stuff happens it means we are closer to Melee.

Sorry that you're being thrown under the bus, Jaxel. You're doing great and getting matches on stream for the game people enjoy to watch is by far superior to dead air.

Hopefully Smash 4 can find a happy medium between this split community.

Smash 4 is just going to be the Brawl community shifting over. Nothing will change except we will have less things to make fun of.

 

[Shadow the Past]

Smash 4 is just going to be the Brawl community shifting over. Nothing will change except we will have less things to make fun of.

You do realize Melee players thought the same when Brawl was going to come out? It's going to be a different game and it's going to appeal to a different crowd of people. Maybe it appeals to Brawl players more than Melee players or vice versa, but Brawl isn't going to die just because another Smash is coming out. That logic is as backwards as saying PM will kill Melee.

I can understand if you don't enjoy watching Brawl, I get that. If you don't enjoy it, don't watch it, it's not that complicated. The LEAST you can do is show respect to those who have dedicated themselves to being the best at the game they enjoy, and furthermore respect the people who do want to watch by not slandering their game.

 

[Djent]

We got the real explanation as to why Brawl wasn't being streamed, but hey...just keep making up other reasons.

 

[Jaxel]

It had nothing to do with "preference" over Brawl or Melee. Truth being told, I don't like EITHER game; I only like Smash 64. I run tournaments for Melee however because its easier to get Melee players in this area. If it was about getting viewers, no one really knows what video is going to get the most views, so I couldn't give a reliable estimate of which would be popular on YouTube or not.

If you like Melee, good for you. If you like Brawl, good for you. I honestly don't care which one you like. I was actually really hype for Brawl Doubles, and it was probably the most fun thing I watched all weekend outside of Smash 64 singles.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I do like Brawl doubles. Enough happens in a doubles match to roughly match that of a Melee singles match. (It's sad that I make that comparison, but at least it's something.) However, having just watching Brawl finals followed by Melee finals... like really? They were night and day. When an attack connects in Brawl, it might lead into another attack... maybe... sometimes... occasionally... In Melee, a chain begins, and the two players become locked in a mental battle as the defending player DIs and techs his way out, and the attacking player has to properly execute on those defense. It's crazy awesome all match.

Melee doubles is iffy. It's super fun to play, but I get tired watching it after a while. It's super chaotic.

Did anyone honestly feel burning hype as Mew2King played Meta Knight and chose to burn the clock by flying around over Ally's Snake? Was that some sort of clutch strategy that made people go wild?

 

[The Real Gamer]

Did anyone honestly feel burning hype as Mew2King played Meta Knight and chose to burn the clock by flying around over Ally's Snake? Was that some sort of clutch strategy that made people go wild?

*crickets*

 

[FreedomFighter]

Thought brawl peaked at 9k and melee at 12. Any way to check?

Yes Brawl indeed got 16K viewers last year which was more than Melee. It was also on AFTER Melee, so no, it wasn't people waiting for Melee. If you don't believe me, you can ask Chibo to check if the number count was/is recorded somewhere. Anyway this year it also gained even more viewers. On Spooky's stream it capped at around 18K, maybe 17K. Melee got 33K. So good job on Smash in general, especially Melee steadily gaining in popularity.

As for people claiming the chat shows no one really cared about it, I don't know how to break this to you but the majority of viewers do not go into the Chat. You see, most people are not complete morons and understand if a game they don't like is being streamed, they can simply check in later and go do something else with their lives in the meantime. About 100 trolls in the stream chat doesn't prove much. You might hate Brawl like it killed your family, it does not change that it STILL has a stronger scene than most fighting games period.

And lastly, to the other posters, no I'm not stating youtube views prove everything, I merely posted that as a counter to the first argument I received that Jaxel didn't stream Brawl because it would get no viewers. But as we now know the real reason(s) he didn't want to stream it, that's a moot point.

 

[smashmachine]

yeah Brawl couldn't even pass Project M let alone Melee in peak views, so you guys can put that argument to rest forever

 

[The Real Gamer]

it does not change that it STILL has a stronger scene than most fighting games period.

Although this is true this isn't going to last for much longer. Keep in mind a lot of the views that the Brawl GF was receiving were people waiting on the Melee stream. In reality Melee got nearly twice as many views as Brawl while PM had more entrants than Brawl.

Melee continues to assert its dominance over the competitive Smash community.
Project Melee is only growing and rapidly gaining popularity.
Many former Brawl players are committed to switching over to Smash 4 once it comes out sometime later this year (hopefully sometime before 2015).

Brawl's ship is rapidly sinking. It will still have a following akin to Smash 64 but otherwise I don't see the scene maintaining its numbers at all especially if Smash 4 ends up being decent enough to attract some of the Melee/Project M crowd (which I personally believe it will).

 

[Bears_x]

There was 2k people watching Brawl while melee had around 16k earlier today.

Brawl peaked at 16k for GF and that was ALL people waiting for melee(melee GF peaked at 33/34k). Brawl just isn't as fun to watch and we all know it. I mean come on man, MK dittos in GF for the 1000th time. They need to stream what people want and if melee is going on, brawl doesn't deserve to be streamed by anything that isn't a side stream. It should be streamed but Brawl has the lowest priority in a TO/Streamers eyes(I'd imagine). I know some people like Brawl but I don't know if a stream would gladly pick up a game they know will have the least amount of active viewers. All that matters is that the finals was streamed. If the finals were pushed aside, I could understand the anger.

Melee > PM > 64 > Brawl.

 

[HeadofHudet]

.
Did anyone honestly feel burning hype as Mew2King played Meta Knight and chose to burn the clock by flying around over Ally's Snake? Was that some sort of clutch strategy that made people go wild?

Timeouts are some of the worst ways to lose a set, that is true. While in melee, the main treat is the fast, yet controlled spacing and combos that often takes a whole stock, brawl can rarely put up for anything like that. Every followup during a momentum has to be carefully read, and if you lose a stock early it's much harder to comeback than in melee.
But it still has its charm if you watch brawl frequently enough. I think that watching top players play in any game can be very hype as long as you understand the metagame well, and respect it. When I see that a timeout is at hand, I can tell that the last minute will be chase that can either go for the character you want to win, or it won't. Most likely, the MK will win, because it's his advantage. But I have seen MANY timeout sets that completely blew me off. There has been comebacks. There has been 1 second on the clock before the underdog gets a KO. When you have experienced that, you wouldn't feel so bad about timeout plays anymore, beause THOSE times really make up for it. The times where you keep a constant eye on the percent because it's even and goes back and forth. Of course, if the player you're cheering for loses to timeout, it does suck. But so does every other way of losing. The only thing that seperates timeouts from the others is that it takes a full 8 minutes.

Brawl commentators aren't fake-hyping. They just understand the metagame a lot better than you do and allow themselves to like it, unlike so many melee-elitists. Personally, I hated apex brawl singles this year. I will not lie. I think the most interesting players got knocked out WAY too early, and GFs mk dittos isn't exactly a new treat to brawl top play either. Just saying that brawl usually gets more hype than this.. and I think the views on the brawl stream somewhat agrees with me.

 

[FredFuchs]

There was 2k people watching Brawl while melee had around 16k earlier today.

Brawl peaked at 16k for GF and that was ALL people waiting for melee(melee GF peaked at 33/34k). Brawl just isn't as fun to watch and we all know it. I mean come on man, MK dittos in GF for the 1000th time. They need to stream what people want and if melee is going on, brawl doesn't deserve to be streamed by anything that isn't a side stream. It should be streamed but Brawl has the lowest priority in a TO/Streamers eyes(I'd imagine). I know some people like Brawl but I don't know if a stream would gladly pick up a game they know will have the least amount of active viewers. All that matters is that the finals was streamed. If the finals were pushed aside, I could understand the anger.

Melee > PM > 64 > Brawl.

streamers don't have a priority system, they stream games based on a schedule.

 

[ZelDan]

I do like Brawl doubles. Enough happens in a doubles match to roughly match that of a Melee singles match. (It's sad that I make that comparison, but at least it's something.) However, having just watching Brawl finals followed by Melee finals... like really? They were night and day. When an attack connects in Brawl, it might lead into another attack... maybe... sometimes... occasionally... In Melee, a chain begins, and the two players become locked in a mental battle as the defending player DIs and techs his way out, and the attacking player has to properly execute on those defense. It's crazy awesome all match.

Melee doubles is iffy. It's super fun to play, but I get tired watching it after a while. It's super chaotic.

Did anyone honestly feel burning hype as Mew2King played Meta Knight and chose to burn the clock by flying around over Ally's Snake? Was that some sort of clutch strategy that made people go wild?

I wasn't really excited by either game's grand finals TBH. Brawl was just MK vs MK, which is kind of tiring to see, and Melee was just PP trouncing M2K, and I would have preferred to see it be much closer.

As for the M2k/Ally comment, while that specific example you gave isn't something exciting or thrilling, I could see the overall set between M2K and Ally being hype if the two players really do have a history together in competitive Brawl. I don't follow Brawl competitively so I would not know, and thus I couldn't get too hyped personally, but perhaps others DID have their reasons for being excited.

I can understand questioning or criticizing a game, though I do not agree with questioning or criticizing another person enjoying a game. I mean, my dad loves watching golf, while I cannot stand watching it. That being said, I know my dad is also very into golfing and plays alot, so I can understand how he could possibly enjoy watching it.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

streamers don't have a priority system, they stream games based on a schedule.

Doesn't that go against what Jaxel said earlier in this thread?

No, I chose FINALS over POOLS; it didn't matter what game it was, its more important to stream finals than a pool. If it was Marvel and Street Fighter, I would have made the same decision.

 

[FredFuchs]

Doesn't that go against what Jaxel said earlier in this thread?

i was saying that one game doesn't get priority over the other when choosing what gets streamed

SEVERAL times before this, as I am sitting on dead air on my stream, yelling out for matches, the Melee TOs are like "hey, we got matches to fill up your stream if you want!". And I am CONSTANTLY denying them, because I'm SUPPOSED to be doing Brawl.

 

[Pierce7d]

M2k vs Ally was initially hype, but it did get super lame after a bit. There's no denying that G1 and G2 were hype.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Timeouts are some of the worst ways to lose a set, that is true. While in melee, the main treat is the fast, yet controlled spacing and combos that often takes a whole stock, brawl can rarely put up for anything like that. Every followup during a momentum has to be carefully read, and if you lose a stock early it's much harder to comeback than in melee.
But it still has its charm if you watch brawl frequently enough. I think that watching top players play in any game can be very hype as long as you understand the metagame well, and respect it. When I see that a timeout is at hand, I can tell that the last minute will be chase that can either go for the character you want to win, or it won't. Most likely, the MK will win, because it's his advantage. But I have seen MANY timeout sets that completely blew me off. There has been comebacks. There has been 1 second on the clock before the underdog gets a KO. When you have experienced that, you wouldn't feel so bad about timeout plays anymore, beause THOSE times really make up for it. The times where you keep a constant eye on the percent because it's even and goes back and forth. Of course, if the player you're cheering for loses to timeout, it does suck. But so does every other way of losing. The only thing that seperates timeouts from the others is that it takes a full 8 minutes.

Brawl commentators aren't fake-hyping. They just understand the metagame a lot better than you do and allow themselves to like it, unlike so many melee-elitists. Personally, I hated apex brawl singles this year. I will not lie. I think the most interesting players got knocked out WAY too early, and GFs mk dittos isn't exactly a new treat to brawl top play either. Just saying that brawl usually gets more hype than this.. and I think the views on the brawl stream somewhat agrees with me.

In Melee, the first stock is often gone within 30 seconds. When was the last time Melee had a timeout? Armada's Young Link against Hungry Box's Jigglypuff? I didn't even mind it because there was no blatant attempt to milk the clock. It was just an unusually slow match. The point is that they just don't happen. I strongly disagree that the last minute victories make it all worth it, but that's just me. The fact that anyone in Brawl even considers burning 2+ minutes to achieve the victory is terrible. Sure, even in Melee, players will go on the defensive when they take the lead, but that only changes the style of combat. M2K likes to stall on the ledge as Sheik, but he knows he cannot stay there forever. In Brawl? He can stay there forever. That is despicable, no? Why is the Brawl community so tolerant of this mechanic? I say, bring back Brawl+ and remove ledge invincibility. Make being off the stage actually scary.

M2k vs Ally was initially hype, but it did get super lame after a bit. There's no denying that G1 and G2 were hype.

I can't agree at all, and it's not because I'm just a blind hater. The matches consisted of staying away from each other. Ally just laced the arena with explosives and fought to get M2K to get hit by them. The game is so bloody defensive!

 

[7734]

I watched both Brawl and Melee GFs today, and the view counts are as follows.... Brawl peak view count was around 15k, Melee over 30k... Enough said. Not to mention that Brawl's peak views were watered down with people waiting for Melee (me).

 

[Kezzup]

So... we're just going to advocate taking a game offstream because it gets less viewers? Shouldn't we take Melee and Project M off the schedule too, since they also get less viewers?

While we're on the topic, can we seriously end the anti-Brawl circlejerk? It's been almost six years, people.

 

[Djent]

Well this thread has outlived its original purpose, so what else is left for people to do but vent about tangentially-related stuff?

And while arguments from stream counts are kind of dumb, so is the "six years" argument. Both rely on heuristics that, while perhaps correlated with the things that make games good, aren't themselves the reasons those games are good.

 

[eshu125]

In Melee, the first stock is often gone within 30 seconds. When was the last time Melee had a timeout? Armada's Young Link against Hungry Box's Jigglypuff? I didn't even mind it because there was no blatant attempt to milk the clock. It was just an unusually slow match. The point is that they just don't happen. I strongly disagree that the last minute victories make it all worth it, but that's just me. The fact that anyone in Brawl even considers burning 2+ minutes to achieve the victory is terrible. Sure, even in Melee, players will go on the defensive when they take the lead, but that only changes the style of combat. M2K likes to stall on the ledge as Sheik, but he knows he cannot stay there forever. In Brawl? He can stay there forever. That is despicable, no? Why is the Brawl community so tolerant of this mechanic? I say, bring back Brawl+ and remove ledge invincibility. Make being off the stage actually scary.

We're tolerant because we love the game for what it is and accept the faults that it has. I don't think your analysis of why you dislike brawl so much is bringing anything new to the table or adding to what this post was originally intended for. Sometimes you should just accept the things you don't understand instead beating a dead horse

 

[Bears_x]

I watched both Brawl and Melee GFs today, and the view counts are as follows.... Brawl peak view count was around 15k, Melee over 30k... Enough said. Not to mention that Brawl's peak views were watered down with people waiting for Melee (me).

Just before the GF for brawl started it was around 2-3k. That's the total amount of people watching Brawl.

I don't think it means brawl shouldn't be streamed, but it is definitely below melee(and everything else) in stream priority.

 

[Djent]

Brawl peaked at 18K on Sp00ky (right after GF ended), Melee at 33K. You were probably looking at the #s for the ClashTournaments stream.

 

[Revven]

All I wanna say is: the dead horse continues to get beaten.

People are going to continue to play/watch and enjoy Brawl. If you don't like the game, that's fine, but continually posting about why it's a bad game to watch as a spectator when it's clearly not going away for awhile yet is not changing anything or adding anything to what is a 6-year-old terrible debate/argument that's ever hit this community.

This thread should really just be locked as its original purpose has been cleared up and it's going way off-the-rails right now. We all know this argument is going to go nowhere, stop being so petty about it and let it be.

This is practically looking like another thread on r/smashbros

 

[GTZ]

What a surprise, disorganized brawl streaming.. gee seems an awful lot like last years, and many years before that. The issue is that people settle rather than push, and pay obnoxious money to get in, only to be pushed from getting a chance on stream. I am not surprised, and not sympathetic. I made many call outs and points as to how streaming has needed to be changed, especially at this event.

I don't think that Jaxel is the point of concern though. Trust me.

 

[eshu125]

Just before the GF for brawl started it was around 2-3k. That's the total amount of people watching Brawl.

I don't think it means brawl shouldn't be streamed, but it is definitely below melee(and everything else) in stream priority.

I would like to say that I may be one of many that made plans so that i could make it in time for brawl (it was scheduled to be the last event on the apex 2014 schedule) so I ended up missing the whole brawl event when it was put on stream before melee was.

 

[Charlesz]

Yes Brawl indeed got 16K viewers last year which was more than Melee. It was also on AFTER Melee, so no, it wasn't people waiting for Melee. If you don't believe me, you can ask Chibo to check if the number count was/is recorded somewhere. Anyway this year it also gained even more viewers. On Spooky's stream it capped at around 18K, maybe 17K. Melee got 33K. So good job on Smash in general, especially Melee steadily gaining in popularity.

As for people claiming the chat shows no one really cared about it, I don't know how to break this to you but the majority of viewers do not go into the Chat. You see, most people are not complete morons and understand if a game they don't like is being streamed, they can simply check in later and go do something else with their lives in the meantime. About 100 trolls in the stream chat doesn't prove much. You might hate Brawl like it killed your family, it does not change that it STILL has a stronger scene than most fighting games period.

And lastly, to the other posters, no I'm not stating youtube views prove everything, I merely posted that as a counter to the first argument I received that Jaxel didn't stream Brawl because it would get no viewers. But as we now know the real reason(s) he didn't want to stream it, that's a moot point.

Stop making up numbers you dumb POS lmao. Refer to Djent post #69.

 

[EggSelent]

I'm not really sure why somebody would get so upset over missing out on some quality ledge camping or tornado-ing. Regardless of the reason for such complaints, it's silly to go after somebody who was doing people a favor by streaming games at all. Considering there's nothing that could be changed at this point, it's crying over spilled milk.

 

[HeadofHudet]

In Melee, the first stock is often gone within 30 seconds. When was the last time Melee had a timeout? Armada's Young Link against Hungry Box's Jigglypuff? I didn't even mind it because there was no blatant attempt to milk the clock. It was just an unusually slow match. The point is that they just don't happen. I strongly disagree that the last minute victories make it all worth it, but that's just me. The fact that anyone in Brawl even considers burning 2+ minutes to achieve the victory is terrible. Sure, even in Melee, players will go on the defensive when they take the lead, but that only changes the style of combat. M2K likes to stall on the ledge as Sheik, but he knows he cannot stay there forever. In Brawl? He can stay there forever. That is despicable, no? Why is the Brawl community so tolerant of this mechanic? I say, bring back Brawl+ and remove ledge invincibility. Make being off the stage actually scary.

Just putting out plain facts to why it isn't free to win like M2K did, first. Meta Knight can't stay on the edge forever. If he reaches over 35 ledge grabs during a game, he's lost the game (LGL limit). But that rule only limits planking so much. He can still play very defensive on stage and plank the rest of the match. But that is still not a guaranteed victory. Mk is by far the best character for several reasons, but if he has to play perfect to do win in this metagame, where mk is everyone's most known matchup. If he starts camping with less than 40 % lead the last 2 minutes against snake, it will never be too good, because snake can chip off several traps and scoop nades on him. I gotta put this out straight: There are rarely any timeouts. But against snake, the matchups implies that mk will have to approach, because snake camps him out with nades, and approaching snake is pretty scary. The thing the metagame has evolved into forces snake to approach more often, because mk will time him out if he's got the lead and can avoid his projectiles well. In Ally's case, he was still too defensive and careful, and underrestimated the timer. He started approaching too late, and that costed him. It would still have been risky to approach M2K if he did so earlier, but the way the metagame has evolved, THAT was his best shot.
In conclusion: Timeouts can make campy players approach, because if they don't, they will have to lose in a grudgingly way. Those who play competitive brawl respects this, and they know it's nothing but a strategy to get the advantage of being the one who sits with the most options.

So yeah, brawl is pretty defensive and insanely defensive in certain matchups. By dashing or jumping you lose many options, and since shield grabs are so good in brawl, you can't risk being read at your decision in neutral state, no matter how good your attack is supposed to be. That's why you will mostly see "passive-aggressive" playstyles in most matchups. Like that you go into position to have him within range to one of your moves, but still have got as many options as possible. Take marth vs dedede for instance. Passive-aggressive marths will fair D3 in neutral state within a ranged position so that he can't follow up just as well, but that he's safe from D3's shield grab if D3 reads the fair correctly. When you have your momentum, you want to cover as many options as possible, because that way you can much easier do followups. This happens in melee as well, but not as much as in brawl. The "Zoning" ability is what pro brawlers relies upon the most.

Except for the planking ability, being offstage IS scary, with one of the reasons being the ledge invinsibility. Going offstage is both risky and rewarding for every character, except the multijumpers and especially mk. But that is one attribute that certain characters have. Good at one thing, bad at another etc.

 

[Cassio]

They are tearing me apart on reddit.

Sorry to hear this, but I think those that are part of the community will understand. Brawl attracts the tail-ends of those interested in smash, but for them will be forgotten in a few days. Scheduling aside, Im hearing that the big issue was a massive lack of set-ups (such a surprise...) and that a lot of brawl set ups were converted to melee and PM on Saturday. Heard there was between 4-16 set-ups at any given moment when last year I remember there being like close to 50 just for Brawl.

Brawl is just whack, even non-competitive types know Melee is the truth

15k viewers and the large majority of anime conventions and college campus disagrees with you. The average age of the melee community is closer to middle than college age so Im not too surprised this isnt known...

In Melee, the first stock is often gone within 30 seconds. When was the last time Melee had a timeout? Armada's Young Link against Hungry Box's Jigglypuff? I didn't even mind it because there was no blatant attempt to milk the clock. It was just an unusually slow match. The point is that they just don't happen. I strongly disagree that the last minute victories make it all worth it, but that's just me. The fact that anyone in Brawl even considers burning 2+ minutes to achieve the victory is terrible. Sure, even in Melee, players will go on the defensive when they take the lead, but that only changes the style of combat. M2K likes to stall on the ledge as Sheik, but he knows he cannot stay there forever. In Brawl? He can stay there forever. That is despicable, no? Why is the Brawl community so tolerant of this mechanic? I say, bring back Brawl+ and remove ledge invincibility. Make being off the stage actually scary.



I can't agree at all, and it's not because I'm just a blind hater. The matches consisted of staying away from each other. Ally just laced the arena with explosives and fought to get M2K to get hit by them. The game is so bloody defensive!

3 sets with multiple time outs and there was no blatant attempt to milk the clock? If by the 15th game either Armada or Hungrybox didnt realize milking a lead with a potential for timeouts wasnt a strategy to consider Id call them bad competitors. But Im pretty sure this isnt the case, and even remember hearing as much from HB on the stream. Just as you should expect Young Link vs Jiggs to timeout on Dreamland, you should expect snake vs MK to timeout on PS1. Pretty sure the commentators mentioned this in the first minute. Were you watching M2K vs Mango on FD? M2K ran away and lazered the whole time, and mango kept running aggressively into him and got 2 stocked.

An argument on Brawl's lack of options takes the bias that games ought to be offensive oriented. Brawl has many options, but more of them are defensive. Not that melee doesnt have defensive options as well, but it really doesn't matter how many options exist on either end. What does matter is whether the a game has more offensive or defensive options.

In melee its the former, in order to avoid getting hit I have to guess or make a series of guesses of my opponents numerous offensive options with my more limited set of defensive options. In Brawl the reverse is true. Exercising your weaker set of options forces you to beat your opponent by by limiting or knowing what options (from their stronger set) they will choose. For melee, this makes game progression very natural and exciting. For Brawl, this makes progression very pensive and difficult.

But really now, those who hate on it are either ignorant of the game or arent geared towards its mental and emotional strains. Comes down to preference in the end.

The mechanics of the game itself are geared towards creating stalemates. Toss in things like tripping and 0-death grab mechanigs, and getting around that means having to jump into your opponents head, take calculated risks, and balancing your own mental stability. Melee is more fun because theres a natural progression, offensive play outweighs defensive so landing hits on opponents doesn't drain you.

 

[bËst^]

I don't get how this brawl vs. Melee still keeps coming up as a discussion topic and there is yet another point of view for it. This is literally same **** that just been offered in a different pack. Kinda funny how people now point out spectators and youtube viewers. Like that proves anything. Getting spectators is all about scheduling and how people have time to spent watching stream. Lets just enjoy the fact that this community has increased the numbers and favor from every point of view: more players, more streamers, more attention, more "background" workers, more interested, more new players, more new friends for everyone, more events... everything is growing.

For those who cry out for brawl not getting as big scenario as melee does: Just simply accept that Melee is more popular than Brawl as a game. That is why it is kinda logical that streamers like to point out what they think attracts people most and focus on that. There were 600 participants in melee, and only little over 300 in brawl. I think that is clear signal that Melee was seen more popular than Brawl. And Apex was a smash event, where melee was the main event. Every event should have their mainevent based on popularity and this time (again) it was melee. I suggest you to be happy, that brawl's final bracket was streamed and therefore the respect was remained. There is just no time to stream everything and please everyone.

Lets keep this awesome community together, so we can talk about smash-community instead of separating it to "melee or brawl -community". We should all accept facts those exist: Melee is more popular among people than brawl or 64. I think this coldwar never ends, but you can always hope .

For my own opinion: I didn't enjoy watching the Brawl finals because the gameplay that was 80% of stalling, edgehogging, camping and metaknight. It was just way too boring to see how 3-stock matches last over 6 minutes without anything spectacular happening in the match. So I don't blame that they didn't show that too much. But this is just my opinion, and behind it I respect that Apex has noticed brawl as a tournament game and we can honestly talk about huge Smash-event

 

[FreedomFighter]

Stop making up numbers you dumb POS lmao. Refer to Djent post #69.

The irony of this post considering he posted EXACTLY the same numbers I did.

If you feel really stupid right now, congratulations, you've thoroughly earned it.

 

[SoulPech]

Apex is over. I hope MODS close this thread. It has outlived its purpose.

 

[Jaxel]

Okay, so apparently, there was some lack of communication when it came to what was going on in Marvel Saturday night. So for that, I apologize for blowing up Bifuteki like that. I thought he had wrong me, but apparently he didn't. My mistake.

Bifuteki has always done good by me, and I've always considered him a friend. The post I made was at 4AM and out of anger; and once again, I apoligize.