Why I want Impa in SSB4 instead of Sheik

[Ice Prince]

I actually still consider Sheik male haha.

That was the whole point for the disguise on Zelda's part, or that was how I took it.

Depends on whom you ask, but Sheik is male to me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I kinda agree with that.

 

[KrIsP!]

I actually still consider Sheik male haha.

That was the whole point for the disguise on Zelda's part, or that was how I took it.

Depends on whom you ask, but Sheik is male to me.

Only if you have proof that she is an anatomically correct he while I never agree with you. On the other hand, if you did have proof then damn.

 

[Oasis_S]

"Haha, c'mon guys. Stop playing around. I know you ALL see things my way. Quit trolling and vote for Impa already. You little scamps! *ruffles hair*"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I still don't care about a playstyle for my liking of characters. It's the character themselves.

I like Sheik because she's cool on her own. She's the awesome alter-ego of Zelda herself. Her fighting half.

It's false to say that people only care about Sheik for her gameplay in Melee/Brawl. That's a poorly wrought theory that is not backed up either. And I proved it myself that not everybody does. I won't lie that some people do, but OOT is widely popular, and she's widely popular alone because of it. It wasn't just Smash. She's just popular, no matter how outdated she is.

 

[Diddy Kong]

"Haha, c'mon guys. Stop playing around. I know you ALL see things my way. Quit trolling and vote for Impa already. You little scamps! *ruffles hair*"

People not agreeing with my awesome truth is not new for me though.

Spoiler

*ruffles hair*

Time will tell.

If Sheik really was as popular, I think she would've appeared in Zelda more. At least in Twilight Princess, but she got scrapped.

But really, I think we'll see the answer when Zelda Wii U / 3DS get more information. Untill then, I'll keep rooting for SS Impa, easily.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And she had a concept art. Maybe because they thought that Sheik is specific to one storyline? And actually care about the storyline in Zelda?

Sakurai and Storyline don't mix. We both know that.

Popularity means nada in Zelda. Only 2/3 of the people actually care about Tingle, but he sure gets in a lot. Barely anybody even cared about Impa till OOT, and her fanbase got slightly bigger with SS.

Sheik's ROLE was over, not her POPULARITY. They have nothing to do with eachother.

Also, don't get your hopes up anyway. Let's remember that Sakurai very specifically wanted Sheik in Brawl, even to the point of thinking of making a Toon Sheik. His caring for Impa is beyond scarce anyway. A cooler role won't sway his opinion by default. If he actually thought Impa was important, I would expect her to have gotten a Trophy.

I want both in the game, but Sheik always comes first in Smash, in not just the majority of opinion, but Sakurai's, who counts more than anyone's. He wants her to be in always. He revealed her first, went out of his way to work on a clone of her, went out of his way to find a concept art of her. That should say something.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ok, from this point I'll NOT be discussing these two points about Impa no more. First is Toon Sheik, second comes the no trophy stuff. I'm now gonna adres them for a last time:

Toon Sheik is no existsting character, adding her would be pointless. I'd still put the money that I don't have on it that it would've been Tetra anyways. Especially because of that Pirate Ship stage. It's Tetra's. The idea was scrapped for a reason, and its probably cause the character is unexistant, or they didn't have a model for her. Besides, having a Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik considered might even get a spiritual revival in this game from the newest Toon Zelda... And guess how that would go... If anything, Impa will be the Toon Sheik of Smash 4.

The fact Impa indeed had no trophy in Smash was cause about all Melee trophies where from Majoras Mask, and in Brawl they all came from Twilight Princess and Wind Waker.

I don't think the rest is true though, because Sheik was the latest character from the Veterans available from start to get revealed. I think they had more trouble getting her in than you say. And they wanted it to happen cause Zelda herself barely changed.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ok, from this point I'll NOT be discussing these two points about Impa no more. First is Toon Sheik, second comes the no trophy stuff. I'm now gonna adres them for a last time:

It's too bad those points are the key crux as this is about Impa and Sheik in Smash, NOT in the Zelda games. You cannot ignore these points, and it's fruitless to do so.

Toon Sheik is no existsting character, adding her would be pointless.

Clearly not in Sakurai's opinion.

I'd still put the money that I don't have on it that it would've been Tetra anyways. Especially because of that Pirate Ship stage. It's Tetra's.

Nope. It only says Toon Sheik. If it was Tetra, it would say Tetra. That was clearly Toon Sheik. You can't change what the data exactly says either. And guess what? That stage represented Wind Waker itself. Not Tetra. It was Toon Link's stage for a reason. Not Tetra's.

The idea was scrapped for a reason, and its probably cause the character is unexistant, or they didn't have a model for her. Besides, having a Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik considered might even get a spiritual revival in this game from the newest Toon Zelda... And guess how that would go... If anything, Impa will be the Toon Sheik of Smash 4.

No, it was because of strictly not enough time. That's the only plausible theory with any facts behind it. He did not have enough time to do everything. Models are not terrifyingly hard either. If he had the time, he'll make it. Skyward Sword is not a Toon Link game either. Those are Child Link specific. Skyward Sword is simply just another Adult Link game.

The fact Impa indeed had no trophy in Smash was cause about all Melee trophies where from Majoras Mask, and in Brawl they all came from Twilight Princess and Wind Waker.

And both Link and Young Link were in Melee. And so was Sheik, an OOT specific character. The trophies were from OOT and MM. He would've put in Impa if he either A) Knew a lot about her or B) Gave a crap. The second one is quite clear by now. The first one maybe not. And it doesn't matter what the latest games are. He puts in Trophies of characters he thinks that deserves mentioning. Look at the Sonic ones from Brawl. Jet is far from worth mentioning, for example. The rest, sure. If it's not important to HIM, a trophy won't happen.

I don't think the rest is true though, because Sheik was the latest character from the Veterans available from start to get revealed. I think they had more trouble getting her in than you say. And they wanted it to happen cause Zelda herself barely changed.

Sheik was the first of the new Zelda characters in Melee. Sakurai, you know, perhaps wanted to surprise us with Sheik? Or he had little time to get the design right away? You don't know why he got it so late. But it doesn't change that he went out of his way to get it regardless. Maybe he got it a slightly late and had to apply it. That takes time. All we know is that he specifically asked for it. That means he wanted Sheik in, nothing more.

 

[yani]

The fact Impa indeed had no trophy in Smash was cause about all Melee trophies where from Majoras Mask, and in Brawl they all came from Twilight Princess and Wind Waker

Not true, we got a Link's Awakening trophy in Melee.

I don't think the rest is true though, because Sheik was the latest character from the Veterans available from start to get revealed. I think they had more trouble getting her in than you say. And they wanted it to happen cause Zelda herself barely changed.

She was also the first character in Melee, which according to you doesn't mean anything. The entire roster was already planned before we even got the Dojo (save Sonic).

 

[Ice Prince]

Only if you have proof that she is an anatomically correct he while I never agree with you. On the other hand, if you did have proof then damn.

Well in Sheik's original debut, Sheik is implied and spoken of as "he". The whole purpose of Zelda undergoing the transformation was so that Ganny would not locate her. The best way to do this is to obviously become the opposite gender. Sheik is even referred to as a "he".

Sheik has always had a gender debate, but to me, Sheik is male. I think the Zelda creators eventually gave into the "she" aspect because so many fans couldn't seem to comprehend a male aspect. There are debates for both male and female for Sheik, but to myself, Sheik was originally meant to be the male alter ego of Zelda. That's how it seemed, based on the original storyline of Sheik's debut.

Based on designs (all designs actually) of Sheik, I see no cleavage. Even in the Brawl design. I noticed Sheik has a more feminine figure in Brawl compared to other appearances, but I know a number of guys who have a feminine figure like that(myself included). Sheik is also referred to as "she" in Brawl, but hell, even I get referred to as "she" or "ma'am" in real life, and I'm not a biological female.

Let that be a lesson. Long blonde hair and a fem figure does not necessarily mean female. To someone who doesn't know you, you are more than likely going to be spoken of as female in that regard, even if it's not the case.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Her in game design in OOT and Melee was very masculine to. The face, body, nothing about it gave me a Zelda vibe. In Brawl it was less so.

She didn't look like this in game, but I definitely can make up some feminine characteristics out of this, if you get me.

Am still refusing to discuss Toon Sheik. There was a reason it didn't make it in Brawl. :/ And if they wanna revive that project no doubt they'll pick Impa for it.

 

[Oasis_S]

Nobody really voted for Impa. They just felt sorry for her since she was losing so badly. They just like her since she's an archetypical underdog.

 

[Diddy Kong]

They just fans in hard denial.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

She didn't make it into Brawl because there was not enough time. It's the only theory that can be justified with any kind of factual statement. The fact that he even thought about it proves that he thinks Sheik is important as is. Even if she's outdated as hell.

He specified he would've done more if there was enough time, which he didn't have. Why would he even bother making a lame clone(let's be honest, I'm glad the clone didn't exist), unless, you know, he liked the character hugely. It's pretty obvious by now he cares more about Sheik than Impa, and frankly that in itself is not going to change overnight. I want both in the game, but Impa will be lucky if she finally gets a damn trophy(which she deserves at the very least, I mean, especially over less important characters like Marin).

And we'll see Toon Impa when she appears in an actual Toon game, starring Toon Link(and probably Toon Zelda). The Toon games were always based upon child Link's Cartoon style, and isn't related to Adult Link at all. Toon Link is generally another version of Young Link, anyway, just the future design, if you will.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Skyward Sword is as Toon as Wind Waker is. Only Link isn't.

It's basically what they wanted to do with SS in the first place.

 

[KrIsP!]

and I'm not a biological female.

There's looking like and being and a difference between the two as you put it. Sheik looks like a guy, so sheik is referred to as he, doesn't mean that sheik is a biological male. In the end, it's a videogame and the character only ended up being Zelda to enhance the story so arguing is pointless.

As for the argument at hand, it's even more pointless. Diddy obviously wants Impa because he likes the character. There's a difference between arguing 'why Sakurai would' and 'why I want Sakurai too'. One side is arguing one point while the other argues the opposite. Sheik is popular and relevant with a huge fan base, a recent remake and a big stir thanks to the 25th anniversary. Impa is interesting and relevant and while she has been around a lot she was never really popular until now, where she has gotten a fanbase which is growing but not nearly as big as Sheik's. When it comes to his deserves the slot it is put in the hands of Sakurai alone and the decision comes down to which side he agrees with. Nintendo could care less what he does, they don't interfere with him at all, he's done well and they trust him, SS doesn't need more sales anyways.

Now, arguing what Sakurai would do rather than what we want him to do. Probably include both as he is making two games. I must say though, the evidence for his interest in Sheik is blatant, as for Impa it's unknown so Sheik will most likely get the slot first, I predict, and Impa will most likely be included afterwards.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This "Sakurai doesn't care about relevance" isn't true though. Many times he has chosen the most recent appearance for characters, or added new characters from newer games. Or games that have been good, and succesful. Examples:

Ness in Smash 64
Sheik, Ganondorf and Young Link in Melee
Pichu in Melee
Ike and Lucario in Brawl

This Sheik is popular because she is in Smash holds little weight, considering all characters have a great fanbase who are in Smash. Doubt that 70% who wants Roy back has played Roy's actual game for example, but I hear him being supported nonetheless. Same with Dr.Mario who was the cloniest of clones. People still want him back.

I say Impa replacing Sheik wouldn't have as much as a negative impact on the game at all, as most familar with Zelda games regonise Impa anyway. Skyward Sword is the ACTUAL 25th anniversary Zelda game anyway (as it's hinted at in the game itself, as well with all the extras you get with the game, extra Wii Remote, extra CD, 25TH ANNIVERSARY written in big damn letters when completing the game?) so Impa being in there, and having a huge role, and having huge character development IS A WHOLE LOT GOING FOR HER.

I'll ask again: Why do you think Sheik made it in in the first place? Relevancy, and OOT's succes. Sure, having a ninja was cool to for Sakurai, but Impa fits that bill just as well, and she has better unique moveset potential.

It's cool if Sheik stays on the 3DS version, with all other OOT-based Zelda characters. But Impa needs to make it on the Wii U version and thereby replace Sheik. In the next game, the one who's grown out the most in role will take the place as the main character on the roster, or both get replaced. It's really really simple all actually, but people is just mindlessy voting Sheik, without stating reasons. I'm arguing with the same people all the time, who refuse to see the points I'm making.

Spoiler

Come with Toon Sheik now and I'll go ape ****...

 

[Pichu Fan]

voted for sheik

 

[yani]

This "Sakurai doesn't care about relevance" isn't true though. Many times he has chosen the most recent appearance for characters, or added new characters from newer games. Or games that have been good, and succesful. Examples:

Ness in Smash 64
Sheik, Ganondorf and Young Link in Melee
Pichu in Melee
Ike and Lucario in Brawl

This doesn't mean anything. Ness was added because his game was the first in the series to be localized. Sheik is Zelda, who has always been a part of the Zelda series, as well as Ganondorf. Young Link is in because he wants two Links in the game. Pichu was a joke character that was an easy clone, and Ike & Lucario were influenced by second party developers.

This Sheik is popular because she is in Smash holds little weight, considering all characters have a great fanbase who are in Smash. Doubt that 70% who wants Roy back has played Roy's actual game for example, but I hear him being supported nonetheless. Same with Dr.Mario who was the cloniest of clones. People still want him back.

I say Impa replacing Sheik wouldn't have as much as a negative impact on the game at all, as most familar with Zelda games regonise Impa anyway. Skyward Sword is the ACTUAL 25th anniversary Zelda game anyway (as it's hinted at in the game itself, as well with all the extras you get with the game, extra Wii Remote, extra CD, 25TH ANNIVERSARY written in big damn letters when completing the game?) so Impa being in there, and having a huge role, and having huge character development IS A WHOLE LOT GOING FOR HER.

You contradict yourself. You say people want Roy back without playing his game because he's important to Smash, and say Impa replacing Sheik won't have AS much negative impact. Sheik is a two time veteran. Roy was only in one game. It would have MORE impact. SS is important, and the main villain of it is much more important than Impa..

I'll ask again: Why do you think Sheik made it in in the first place? Relevancy, and OOT's succes. Sure, having a ninja was cool to for Sakurai, but Impa fits that bill just as well, and she has better unique moveset potential.

Sheik made it in because she is Zelda. No one expected Sheik, Sakurai surprised us and made it work. Impa does not fit the bill, because she is not Zelda. A pile of horse poop can have unique moveset potential, so that doesn't matter.

It's cool if Sheik stays on the 3DS version, with all other OOT-based Zelda characters. But Impa needs to make it on the Wii U version and thereby replace Sheik. In the next game, the one who's grown out the most in role will take the place as the main character on the roster, or both get replaced. It's really really simple all actually, but people is just mindlessy voting Sheik, without stating reasons. I'm arguing with the same people all the time, who refuse to see the points I'm making.

No it's not cool. A two time veteran deserve be playable in the big show. Everyone states reasons, you choose to ignore them and play the relevance game, which doesn't work.

Spoiler

Come with Toon Sheik now and I'll go ape ****...

Toon

 

[KrIsP!]

This "Sakurai doesn't care about relevance" isn't true:

Ness in Smash 64
Sheik, Ganondorf and Young Link in Melee
Pichu in Melee
Ike and Lucario in Brawl

[/SPOILER]

Invalid.
Ness was not put in due to relevancy, it was due to nepotism. Mother was not created in-house by Nintendo is was created in co. with Hal laboratory, let's look at what they've made. Mother/Earth Bound, Kirby and..Smash Bros. The we've got Pichu and Lucario. also not fully owned by Nintendo Same goes for Ike.

We're saying Sakurai doesn't care about relevancy, when it comes to asking for those characters use he can't force them, they get to choose, there's some negotiating. Pokemon, Fire Emblem and Mother are made by second-party developers who own the rights. That's why there's a pokemon game coming to the iPhone.

With zelda, Mario, and Kirby Sakurai has 100% of control over those decisions, even Kid Icarus now. So it comes down to his opinion and as people have already stated in this thread, he hasn't gone for relevance. Sheik alone has shown him hunting down concept art to keep her in the game.

 

[DtJ S2n]

I could never respect Impa after the Oracle games.

I really feel this is enough reason for her to never be a character. Actually on second thought I'd really enjoy playing an Impa like this. Some sorta DK/Sheik hybrid... Alright Impa's in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Sold2: That's my favorite version of her, due to being super strong, and would make a better moveset than a slightly different Sheik, but that's just me.

I like the OOT look a lot, and the SS design is pretty cool. They're all great designs, but I just want the one that wouldn't have a chance to be a clone(or REPLACE a two-time veteran).

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I could never respect Impa after the Oracle games.

I really feel this is enough reason for her to never be a character. Actually on second thought I'd really enjoy playing an Impa like this. Some sorta DK/Sheik hybrid... Alright Impa's in.

Plus one .

 

[AEMehr]

Your arguments do make some sense Diddy Kong, but Impa will not replace Sheik.

I think that Sheik's design will be inspired by Impa. But Sakurai wouldn't do that. He could have gotten ridden of her on Brawl, but he didn't. Nobody knew there was a design for Sheik, and he could have gotten out that problem with out any opposition. Sheik's fanbase a lot larger than Impa, a game like Smash has it's roster mainly based on fan demand.

Also, Sheik was badass before it was cool.

 

[Diddy Kong]

My guess is that Sakurai kept with Zelda / Sheik cause it was of coarse one of the more unique characters from Melee. And since Sheik got scrapped (and thus, was considered for) Twilight Princess he figured she would return in Zelda at least some time. Well, she didn't in the latest new major release, but Impa did. It's not something he has control over, cause he's not from the Zelda team.

The guy is also personally playing through Skyward Sword, so chances are if he took a liking for Sheik before in OOT, Impa could inspire him in the same manner. She's a kind of "origin" character in Skyward Sword anyway.

Keep in mind, if Mother 3 had the planned N64 release, Ness would've been replaced by Lucas in Melee.

Cuts and replacements happen a lot in fighting games. And most fighters do not get rosters bigger than 50 characters. So considering that, I do think there's a good chance they'll just replace some older characters but they would get spiritual succesors.

A similar, but maybe unintentional thing happened in Brawl. Just look at Ike, Lucario and Toon Link. Sure, Roy and Mewtwo are said to have been planned, but they gave priority to create new characters. Ike having Roy's B move (however out of place it is) is an example that I think they abandoned the Roy / Mewtwo project somewhat earlier than most would guess. They simply created the new characters earlier, so they made it in.

So yes, I do think Sheik might get the same treatment. But I also think that she would probably still be in the 3DS version, while Impa is on the Wii U.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'm quite with others in the fact that Sheik wouldn't be replaced with Impa, but I'd wanna see her inclusion anyway. Just NOT REPLACING Sheik.

(-l^l-);

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Sheik is still in the other version, would it really be a replacement then?

 

[yani]

I could never respect Impa after the Oracle games.

I really feel this is enough reason for her to never be a character. Actually on second thought I'd really enjoy playing an Impa like this. Some sorta DK/Sheik hybrid... Alright Impa's in.

DK/Sheik hybrid top tier!

But yeah this alone explains why Impa has no shot at being a character, let alone replace a vet

 

[Diddy Kong]

>2001
>Fat Ima
>2011
>Skyward Sword Impa

Choose which would make the most sence to be in.

 

[yani]

No Impa makes the most sense

 

[Diddy Kong]

That's why you had to vote for Sheik twice? YOU CHEATER!

Spoiler

You broke my heart...

 

[Conviction]

Came to say I voted for

oh, and stop talking like a know-it-all, maybe that's why people in the thread dislike your Impa mouth foamings.

Toon ? She didn't make it in due to time constraints. Do your research.

Have fun replying to this but

WE OUT

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, now everyone from the thread has voiced their opinion I'm just gonna kick back and see how others perceive this.

Toon Sheik = Tetra. Not gonna change my view unless we see an actual Toon Sheik in the game. And yeah, if anything it only boosts Impa's chances if they wanna revive the idea.

 

[yani]

It doesn't matter what you may think. It says TOON SHEIK

 

[Diddy Kong]

Unexcistant characters where planned for Brawl then I guess, cause they also wanted to make up a Prai_Mai...

 

[yani]

It's either Plusle & Minun or the random box. Either way they exist

 

[Diddy Kong]

Never saw ; A wild PRAI appeared! Or ; A wild _MAI appeared! in my Pokemon Ruby.

Point is: code names. Toon Sheik was most likely a code name of Tetra. They didn't went through with programming those characters, so why would they change it? Maybe they first considered adding in a Toon Sheik. But guess what: THEY DIDN'T. Maybe unexistance had some to do with it?

 

[RespawningJesus]

I'll vote for Impa, just because she looks cooler, and because Zelda's transformation was so useless. Now, if they made transform like in Project M: slow to start up, but you can act immediately out of it, then I would be fine with Sheik returning.

 

[Oasis_S]

PRAsle & MAInun

Japanese names. And it wasn't the random box. Those who think it means "every player" assume "player" in Japanese is "PRAYER," because y'know, L and R is the same thing. But player would be "PUREIYAA" or something. BASICALLY IF IT MEANT "PLAYER" THEN THE "PRA" WOULD INSTEAD BE "PREI."

Toon Sheik wouldn't have been Tetra, get over it. They were going to add another Sheik before adding Tetra, which would just be terrible for your argument, so you delude yourself into thinking something else, AND THEN tell everyone not to bring it up.