Why does everyone crap on Smash 64 so much?

[SheerMadness]

JMOAN how can you comment on SSB64's competitive scene when you're not a part of it, or ever have been?

I play both games at their highest competitive level. In melee I live in Florida and play against players like DaShizWiz, Lambchops, KeepSpeedN, and Colbol regularly. In SSB64 I play online and play or have played the best SSB64 players in North America, including Isai. SSB64 is far more balanced than Melee. You'll NEVER see a low tier character win a major melee tourney and a mid tier character winning a big tourney is almost as rare. In SSB64 some of the best players in the world main low tier characters and win with them. Infact, I can't even think of a top SSB64 player that even mains high tier broken *** kirby. In actuality SSB64 is more balanced than Melee for all the reasons you said it wasn't, JMOAN. In 64 the slower characters with less priority and worse movesets all still have incredible combo games which actually gives them a fair shot at beating higher tier characters.

Why do so many people think Melee is such a better game? Maybe because it had 7+ years for people to explore and learn to like it. SSB64 had less than 2 years before Melee came out and only a select few groups across the world had even achieved an advanced level of play before Melee took the spotlight.

SSB64 is an amazing competitive fighting game that never had its chance to shine in the competitive scene because Melee was released so quickly.

 

[Deleted member]

SSB64 is an amazing competitive fighting game that never had its chance to shine in the competitive scene because Melee was released so quickly.

Really good point for people who keep saying that Melee was so much more popular. Well duh, since people had played the original more people were hyped for the next one and as you said there were so many years for it to catch on.

Smash 64 4 LYFE!!!

 

[Wenbobular]

Where did all the regulars go? So many new faces on these forums...I guess that's a good thing.
Also, I keep seeing comments about how SSBM is so much faster than SSB...and I keep thinking that they're wrong. At high level play, SSB characters can still get across the field almost as well as SSBM characters do. Maybe it's because I just can't get my Falco to move. At all.

 

[greenblob]

I never really thought of it in terms of speed. All I really think about when playing Smash 64 is how I can get a combo in. To me, Melee is although faster, a much more tactical game because approaching is very important.

Actually, I still don't understand why people are saying Smash 64 is slow. It has a different feel, but once you get used to it it's just as fluid. After that, it's just combo away.

 

[omfgomfg]

i greatly prefer ssb64 and i will forcefully feed my opinion into the mouths of everyone who prefers melee

 

[Libomasus]

I'm pretty sure added depth has already been covered in this thread, but I'd like to comment on balance. Even though Smash64 was balanced, all the characters were also less varied. Not just because they had less moves and throws, but also because their A-attacks were all pretty much the same. They all had the same spiking killing moves, without any prioritized difference between one another. Same strategies for combos, same animations sometimes even.

So yeah, one of the reasons I like Melee better. A lot of people say that only a few characters are usable in Melee, but comparing it to Smash64 is kind of wrong. Smash64 had more usable characters because they followed a familiar structure.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

grr

I'm pretty sure added depth has already been covered in this thread, but I'd like to comment on balance. Even though Smash64 was balanced, all the characters were also less varied. Not just because they had less moves and throws, but also because their A-attacks were all pretty much the same. They all had the same spiking killing moves, without any prioritized difference between one another. Same strategies for combos, same animations sometimes even.

So yeah, one of the reasons I like Melee better. A lot of people say that only a few characters are usable in Melee, but comparing it to Smash64 is kind of wrong. Smash64 had more usable characters because they followed a familiar structure.

Okay thats basically saying melee spikes are the same too, they seem to have a delayed hitbox to them...CRAZy but really theres lots of clones in melee so you can't say anything about smash64 having familiar structures

Both games are good, but both games are completely different.

"Don't get hit" applies to BOTH games.

smash64 had 2 years to shine...melee had 7 years to shine, now melee was a great game but smash64 was also a great game as well...I don't see why some people can't accept both games or simply ignore the other if they dislike it instead of flaming on it because they're not good/suck at it.

now im sure brawl will be out for a long time and certain new people coming on to brawl without playing melee or smash64 will say its horribly imbalanced and broken etc.

I like both games but when one person comes barging in saying how this one game sucks because of this and that blah blah, I really feel like finding that person and punching that ****er right in the face seriously, its basically being immature about something and people need to grow up and/or try new things.

 

[Libomasus]

The 64 cast aren't all exactly the same, but I still think the Melee cast is more varied. What I mean by spikes is, not all characters in Melee had them. So instead of spikes, lots of characters had to use other kill moves and such. Thats what I mean by more varied.

I mean, with everybody having viable kill and combo moves in Smash64, it was pretty balanced. In Melee, not everyone had them, but I liked that because it made playing some characters a little different and all. So even if its unbalanced, I don't think they did a horrible job designing it like I've heard people say.

 

[greenblob]

I guess I kinda agree with that statement. In Smash 64, the main strategy was to go for combos (well, for me anyway). The only non-combo character, Samus, happens to be bottom tier. Combos are pretty important in Melee, but non-combo characters (Ganon, Samus) are still viable in tournament play.

 

[MFZ95]

SSB64 has a lack of more stages,characters and a good single player mode,but i still like it...

 

[Kips]

Smash 64 lacked large amounts of stages, characters and a good SP mode like MFZ95 said but also:
It's horribly unbalanced. If you didn't play Kirby, Ness or Pikachu and you weren't as good as Isai with the others then you were basically ****ed.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd take Smash 64's levels over all of Melee's. Melee's levels sucked. And Adventure mode in Melee was horrible and unfun. Classic is still the best.

 

[Zantetsu]

I've read every post in this thread and all I can say is... wow. Majority of the new faces in here no nothing.

 

[SheerMadness]

Melee noobs don't know what they're talking about. Unless you've actually played both games at a competitive level you probably shouldn't be judging either game.

 

[Drclaw411]

i've said it before and i'll say it again.

64<Melee<Brawl.

Why?

MORE CHARS = BETTER GAME. PERIOD.

 

[_kSo_]

Dude you seriously are losing it Melee was 100X better than 64, more characters, better gameplay, More items.
You must have been playing Melee with your eyes closed.

who cares about items


i started to play melee because too many of my friends play melee instead of 64

I like the new physics because it's basically the same type of game as 64 but it's just like a new interface, which allowed me to learn a lot more things.

then again, I live a block away from CunningKitsune, so I'm really improving at a quick pace hehe

 

[Zantetsu]

i've said it before and i'll say it again.

64<Melee<Brawl.

Why?

MORE CHARS = BETTER GAME. PERIOD.

Get out of this ****ing thread. We already proved your "more chars = better game" thing wrong and now your just ****ing spamming it. No one cares about your opinion because we all know your just another *** who doesn't know anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Get out of this ****ing thread. We already proved your "more chars = better game" thing wrong and now your just ****ing spamming it. No one cares about your opinion because we all know your just another *** who doesn't know anything.

I agree with this guy.

 

[Desruprot]

....Aye SSB64 is the game that started this whole thing, I have not seen anyone really saying anything bad, although I beat the game on Hardest and the AI was easy (Melee = uped AI skill)

 

[Deleted member]

....Aye SSB64 is the game that started this whole thing, I have not seen anyone really saying anything bad, although I beat the game on Hardest and the AI was easy (Melee = uped AI skill)

I don't know, I suck at Melee and I still beat the level 9 AI no problem. I just started playing the game again before Brawl came out (I don't really like it so I don't own it).

 

[Surri-Sama]

Hmmm i read the topic starter..and i read every post..and i still dont know why you guys are even arguing abotu this O_o lost much or...


P.S.:"Mortal Kombat was better then melee because Sub-Zero was in it".... this statment makes more sense then "melee/ssb64 is better then melee/ssb64" (replace as you feel =.=)

 

[JaimeHR]

I like SSB64 and Melee (and Brawl so far xO). All of them are awesome games, that "Broken", "Unbalanced" stuff are just lame excuses to blame the game when they can't beat anybody with any character on any stage.

"OMG Kirby is TOOOOO cheap i can't win, he's broken" (SSB64)

"WTF no fair, Marth is so unbalanced with that big *** swordz!" (Melee)

"GAY, Falco's Infinite lazors lock is BROKENZ! OMG WTF ORLY YARLY NOWAY" (Brawl, there will be one for Brawl as well, just you wait... EDIT: I saw it comming xP)

You don't like SSB64? stick to Melee then, but if you play SSB64 and lose alot don't say it's broken or unbalanced because you can't win, learn its mechanics or stay away form it, simple. Same with Brawl, come on is not like the Melee disk will pop-up a pair of legs and leave away from you when Brawl comes out. (LOLCOPTER)

 

[BDawgPHD]

Actually, my friends and I recently pulled out the old 64 and started playing old school smash....it's hell fun, but I don't like either one more than the other, even though I pwn at 64 :D Both games have a little something....64's balance lies in that anyone can infinite combo. Melee's balance lies in that it relies a lot more on mind games and tactics than ssb. I think.....yea...but both are fun. Knee and short-and-spammable falcon punch ftw

in fact, the guy who said brawl was the perfect compromise between melee and ssb was a genius

 

[St. Viers]

heh...I just started playing ssb64 again, and have been playing for 2.5 days now. If you can't tell, me and bdawg are taking about the same recent picking up of ssb...XD Types hella faster than me...

When I played my first game on friday, I was like "WTF, this games sucks...melee is better. However, very quickly I realized that it was just different. I couldn't WD, but that made me focus on using dashing and jumping to space, and learning WHEN to attack, as if you attack wrong you get graped much harder than in melee (0-death, anyone?) Although it moves slower, it is more fast paced (camping isn't the most viable option).

I obviously can't play it on a competitive level (yet at least), but I pick things up quickly, and it is a simple game. By that I'm not insulting it, in fact I find that a postive: although KISS is a coding acronym, it also applies to gameplay: make it simple, and it becomes in fact more challenging than a more complex game. This is why games like chess and go are still around. They aren't too simple (tic tac toe), but they have few basic rules, some advanced ones (castling, ko), and the rest is just applying the rues. Although there are some examples of things being too extreme (DOA 3's counter system, anyone?), ssb isn't an example of this.

Yes, any character can pretty much 0-Death another, so that makes finding the right time to attack key. You can't rely on SGing, because of z-cancling+tons of shieldstun. You can't just camp, as projectiles are not that hard to avoid. So it becomes the epitome of "mindgames"--how to get the opponent to attack wrong, and how to attack safely--both of which are much less important in melee...


==Some random comments ==

*If everyone can 0-death, doesn't that make it balanced?

*The reason I didn't like it at first is because I lost, and I couldn't do things like I could in melee. That shouldn't stop m

* The stages owned. More should have been in melee.

*Comparing the games is stupid...although the same series, that doesn't mean they have to play the same...compare ff3 to ff7 to ff11. I stil enjoy the snes ff games, even if they are completely different from the newer ones. Smash and Melee, (and brawl) ARE DIFFERENT GAMES!!! and thus SHOULD be different experiences.

 

[greenblob]

Wait, how is Brawl a compromise between 64 and Melee?

Combos: 64>Melee>Brawl
Speed: Melee>64>Brawl
Projectiles: Melee>64>Brawl
Floatiness: Brawl>64>Melee

 

[M3tr01D]

melee would've been fine with me if it weren't for the gamecube controller. pressure sensitive controls weren't a very good idea. also didn't like sidesteps, just added too many defensive options to the game.

 

[jimmyjoe]

didn't like sidesteps, just added too many defensive options to the game.

I agree, It kind of goes back to the chess comparison and what St. Veirs was saying, wich was beautiful btw

 

[Deleted member]

So is sidestepping in Brawl?

 

[Thino]

So is sidestepping in Brawl?

yes .

 

[BDawgPHD]

melee would've been fine with me if it weren't for the gamecube controller. pressure sensitive controls weren't a very good idea....

Smash 64 has pressure sensitive controls too.....how do you think you smash attack, or jump as opposed to tilt, or short hop?

EDIT: St. Viers, I don't think DOA3 is too extreme. Not to disagree with you (which I love doing btw ) but it's almost like a rock-paper-scissors sort of thing. If you counter, you can get grabbed, if you try to grab, you can get attacked, and if you attacked, you can get countered. It's almost like a sort of smash 64 dont-get-hit sort of thing, but less extreme. Someone has to do something, and it's tough to make a good approach, you have to force someone to mess up, save a few characters.

 

[Sensei]

Short hops are not due to pressure sensitive buttons. Shorts hops are due to pressing the short hop button and releasing it before your character leaves the ground, different from pressure sensitivity.

BTW, brawl is fun <_>

 

[BDawgPHD]

Short hops are not due to pressure sensitive buttons. Shorts hops are due to pressing the short hop button and releasing it before your character leaves the ground, different from pressure sensitivity.

BTW, brawl is fun <_>

Then what else could you mean by pressure-sensitive buttons? Do you mean the L and R, and heavy and light shielding? because frankly I like it.

 

[greenblob]

Yes, "pressure sensitive" would refer to shielding.

melee would've been fine with me if it weren't for the gamecube controller. pressure sensitive controls weren't a very good idea. also didn't like sidesteps, just added too many defensive options to the game.

Ahem...

I can't vote for melee as the best game ever, I played it yesterday and it was horrible.

 

[M3tr01D]

yeah, it sucked because L cancelling with pressure sensitive buttons is dumb. if you could play the game with an n64 controller it would be awesome, which is why I'm hoping for brawl I can hook up my n64 controller via USB port.

 

[Thino]

yeah, it sucked because L cancelling with pressure sensitive buttons is dumb. if you could play the game with an n64 controller it would be awesome, which is why I'm hoping for brawl I can hook up my n64 controller via USB port.

You should give classic controller a try when get brawl , I heard its awesome , plus GC controller has its analog stick mapped to the D-pad so the angles aren't accurate like they were for Melee.
Pressure sensitivity has also been removed so u gotta press L & R button all the way to be able to shield...
im definitely playing brawl with classic or wiimote lol

 

[cam`]

'gc controller has its analog stick mapped to the D-pad'

ie now you can only foxfire in 8 different directions? is that true? wtf

 

[Surri-Sama]

You should give classic controller a try when get brawl , I heard its awesome , plus GC controller has its analog stick mapped to the D-pad so the angles aren't accurate like they were for Melee.
Pressure sensitivity has also been removed so u gotta press L & R button all the way to be able to shield...
im definitely playing brawl with classic or wiimote lol

yeah ima buy a classic controler too for Brawl, i 100% agree to this and what met said, for me it wasnt the pressure buttons i just didnt like the GC controler in general IMO the 64 one iu found fit my hand much better, and the ps2/3 controler even better..minus the fact that the Analog isterribul for smash =.=

 

[Kips]

I like SSB64 and Melee (and Brawl so far xO). All of them are awesome games, that "Broken", "Unbalanced" stuff are just lame excuses to blame the game when they can't beat anybody with any character on any stage.

"OMG Kirby is TOOOOO cheap i can't win, he's broken" (SSB64)

"WTF no fair, Marth is so unbalanced with that big *** swordz!" (Melee)

"???????????" (Brawl, there will be one for Brawl as well, just you wait...)

You don't like SSB64? stick to Melee then, but if you play SSB64 and lose alot don't say it's broken or unbalanced because you can't win, learn its mechanics or stay away form it, simple. Same with Brawl, come on is not like the Melee disk will pop-up a pair of legs and leave away from you when Brawl comes out. (LOLCOPTER)

Kirby IS too good. His D-Air is basically an instant spike kill that can be spammed with impunity, his F-Smash had ridiculous range and power, his other aerials could rack up damage and he had incredible recovery. So yes, he WAS cheap. Hence why Iplayed him.

I don't really care about Marth being unbalanced. Swords will never beat potato-fists.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Kirby IS too good. His D-Air is basically an instant spike kill that can be spammed with impunity, his F-Smash had ridiculous range and power, his other aerials could rack up damage and he had incredible recovery. So yes, he WAS cheap. Hence why Iplayed him.

I don't really care about Marth being unbalanced. Swords will never beat potato-fists.

lol btw im pretty sure JamieHR was only trying to say all SSB game with have people who complane, dont matetr if it ACTUALLY is broken...

"His D-Air is basically an instant spike"
this requires contact, ha!

his Fsmash has very low top priotrity so yeah arieals (Arieals seem to be the answer to all asshat players xD)

 

[SmashThugZ]

the fact that DI in the game is horribly lacking

It's not lacking, heh
It just requires more user input than Melee does