Why do people always say that Yoshi is bottom tier?

[Kiwikomix]

@ Shields: Jab out of shield works. Try it sometime.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

I really respect your opinion, Nigerian Star Storm. But there are few things I wanna say.

Yes, it is our fault for not entering the tourneys but there are reasons for that. One of them can be the fact that there has never been a single tourney in our area. Plus some of us can be really busy at these times so we couldn't enter.

I have never heard of a single tourney happened EVER in Scotland, not once (except from that Gamestation one. Like that did any good) so how am I able to help Yoshi out if there aren't gonna be any tourneys in my area?

Also the fact that barely anyone uses Yoshi is also another reason. What are the odds of a Yoshi beating a lot of snakes and meta knights? very little. Very few, who don't main Yoshi, have given the poor guy a proper chance.

So it ain't just the Yoshi community's fault, it is everyone's fault. We need more Yoshis.

Donkey Kong did it. Ness did it. Wario did it. So you can't really say: "oh it's because he's not very popular right now" as the sole reason why Yoshi does not win tournaments. It is "a" reason why, but it's not the only one. Ness only has like one really good player (Simna) who gets wins for him, but he's still on the map. And why? Because Ness actually does have some potential. Donkey Kong has potential. Wario has potential. And it showed. Even without many players to back them. So why don't we have at least one amazing Yoshi player who goes out and wins too? Unless by some coincidence all the Yoshi players just happen to be garbage (not very likely) Yoshi probably just doesn't have that much potential for winning (much more likely).

 

[Meta Dude]

those rankings list are also kinda skewed because you'll have two or three players getting a lot of points for one character. the yoshi community doesn't have that quite yet. there's a few reasons for that, i imagine most people would prefer a normal shield to yoshi's shield. there's also the stigma from the last smash games that yoshi sucks and it's still lingered. i think there's a lot of reasons why yoshi isn't making a big splash on the tourney scene, but i don't think it's because he's a horrible character. still, the fact that he's not overpowered or doesn't apper that great means he definitely will not be used.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

i Really Respect Your Opinion, Nigerian Star Storm. But There Are Few Things I Wanna Say. shoot

Yes, It Is Our Fault For Not Entering The Tourneys But There Are Reasons For That. One Of Them Can Be The Fact That There Has Never Been A Single Tourney In Our Area. Plus Some Of Us Can Be Really Busy At These Times So We Couldn't Enter. this Is What Annoys Me, This Could Easily Apply For Any Other Character. Yoshi Is Not Special In This Situation

I Have Never Heard Of A Single Tourney Happened Ever In Scotland, Not Once (except From That Gamestation One. Like That Did Any Good) So How Am I Able To Help Yoshi Out If There Aren't Gonna Be Any Tourneys In My Area? i'm Sorry That You Live In Europe And Just Got Brawl >_>, But There Are Yoshi Mainer In The U.s.a Who Just Don't Go To Tournaments At All

Also The Fact That Barely Anyone Uses Yoshi Is Also Another Reason. What Are The Odds Of A Yoshi Beating A Lot Of Snakes And Meta Knights? Very Little. Very Few, Who Don't Main Yoshi, Have Given The Poor Guy A Proper Chance. judging By How You Guys Swarm Someone Whenver He's Placed Low On A Tier List, I'd Say There Are More Of You Than ****ing Jigglypuff Mainers, And She's Still Managed To Place

So It Ain't Just The Yoshi Community's Fault, It Is Everyone's Fault. We Need More Yoshis. granted That's True, But You Pioneer Need To Set A Good Exanple For More Yoshis To Join The Ranks

Comments In Bold

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

those rankings list are also kinda skewed because you'll have two or three players getting a lot of points for one character. the yoshi community doesn't have that quite yet. there's a few reasons for that, i imagine most people would prefer a normal shield to yoshi's shield. there's also the stigma from the last smash games that yoshi sucks and it's still lingered. i think there's a lot of reasons why yoshi isn't making a big splash on the tourney scene, but i don't think it's because he's a horrible character. still, the fact that he's not overpowered or doesn't apper that great means he definitely will not be used.

But I mean come on. Ness and DK weren't doing that hot in melee either. But they still have at least some rep in tournaments. Is it just a coincidence that none of the Yoshi's are placing high? I don't believe in coincidences like that. There should've been at least one by now.

 

[Wubblez]

I've stopped caring about the tier list. Who cares where they place anyone. The point is what you can actually do with the Yoshi, not what other people think you can do.

 

[Nigerian Star Storm]

I've stopped caring about the tier list. Who cares where they place anyone. The point is what you can actually do with the Yoshi, not what other people think you can do.

Ever thought there was a reason characters placed low on Melee's and eventually Brawl's Tier list almost, if always never win? >_>

 

[Meta Dude]

But I mean come on. Ness and DK weren't doing that hot in melee either. But they still have at least some rep in tournaments. Is it just a coincidence that none of the Yoshi's are placing high? I don't believe in coincidences like that. There should've been at least one by now.

it'd be interesting to see how many entrants picked one character over another, but i'd reckon that there's probably more dk's than yoshis entering into the tournament in the first place.

like i already said, there's a lot of reasons for that, including the fact that there are just better characters to play with (quicker to learn). i don't think that makes yoshi a bad character, i feel like he's better than some characters, far from the bottom. but he's not some sick machine, either.

i think we've had this discussion on here many times why people don't like yoshi, and it comes down to his awkward style. there's countless topics like this with the same thing being discussed, so yeah i'm done.

 

[bigman40]

I wish a tourney came up in Georgia. It's so rare to hear or see a tourney here, I wouldn't even say anything if this at least happened (and before this question comes up, no I can't travel). Eh, whatever. There's nothing I can do until tournies come to georgia.

 

[Wubblez]

I wish a tourney came up in Georgia. It's so rare to hear or see a tourney here, I wouldn't even say anything if this at least happened (and before this question comes up, no I can't travel). Eh, whatever. There's nothing I can do until tournies come to georgia.

Best tourney I've seen here is a 16 person one filled with middle schoolers and their moms at a Blockbuster.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Best tourney I've seen here is a 16 person one filled with middle schoolers and their moms at a Blockbuster.

Were their moms playing?

Sounds like a rad place to pick up chicks.

 

[Wubblez]

Were their moms playing?

Sounds like a rad place to pick up chicks.

...I got a few numbers. :D

 

[DstyCube]

Whenever someone makes a tier list, Yoshi is always at the bottom.

Maybe it's because there is a possibility that he is bottom/low tier.

How many of these threads are going to be made? I'm sick of seeing these threads. They always end the same. How anyone can care so much about where a character places on a tier list is beyond me.

The bottom line is that tier lists are created from actual results. Yoshi, overall, does not place well in tournaments. How can you sit there and say he doesn't deserve bottom tier because <insert reason here>. No johns.

Yoshi is indeed an underplayed character. Why don't people play him? I mean could you imagine any reason why anyone would want to play Yoshi competitively? If I were new to the game and I wanted to become the best player in brawl, why would I want to main a character that doesn't place in tournaments? That wouldn't make sense. If I want to win, I will pick a character that does well in tournaments. The reason why Yoshi is underplayed is because he gets very little representation by people who truly do main him. If people care so much about a tier list, change it by entering tournaments and show others that Yoshi can win. If you can't do that then you are out of luck. Host your own tournaments if you have to. You can sit here and tell everyone how great you're Yoshi is and that all the other people out there that are actually out there entering tournaments aren't playing him right, but in the end words are cheap.

Lol sorry if that sounds demeaning, but that's just how I see it. I'm not saying Yoshi is doomed to be bottom tier forever, but in all honesty you have to be fooling yourself to not think he's low tier.

P.S. - Bottom Tier is not a bad thing.

 

[Depster]

The only reason that I don't place in tournies is because there are none close enough

 

[Gindler]

Bottom tier: embrace it.

I'm done arguing pretty much, I do decent in tournaments. I beat snakes (Probably 50% of smashers use him now, tier wh0res much?), MKs, warios, whatever all the "good" characters are. But yeah yoshi's good but I KNOW some characters are just "better"

 

[Fatmanonice]

P.S. - Bottom Tier is not a bad thing.

Unless you want to rank in tournaments, that is... If only his recovery and smash attacks didn't suck so much. His aerials are pretty good and so are his specials but his lack of KO potential is what really kills him.

 

[Wubblez]

Unless you want to rank in tournaments, that is... If only his recovery and smash attacks didn't suck so much. His aerials are pretty good and so are his specials but his lack of KO potential is what really kills him.

I love it how people think that just because you play a top tier user, you will place or rank in tournaments. Its your individual skill that allows you to win. I've seen players using Snakes and Metaknights get dead last before. I've also seen players using numerous unpopular characters place first.

 

[Scala]

I've found yoshi's recovery to be more than adequate. I almost never get gimped. If he didn't have super armor it would be a different story. But he does, and it's alllll good.

All I wish is that yoshi had a different move for side-b. One that wouldn't make him suicide over the edge. No johns, though.

 

[SOVAman]

I've found yoshi's recovery to be more than adequate. I almost never get gimped. If he didn't have super armor it would be a different story. But he does, and it's alllll good.

All I wish is that yoshi had a different move for side-b. One that wouldn't make him suicide over the edge. No johns, though.

I have never gotten Gimp either, good point

 

[Krooton]

How come I manage to survive till 240% against a link who uses smash attacks a lot? Because Yoshi has an awesome recovery!

 

[Blistering Speed]

^ Erm I agree with the point that you're to make, that Yoshi has a good recovery, but if you're surviving till 240% then that Link just sucks.

OT , Yoshi is middle tier, but I am happy with him being put in low at the moment because I understand the importance of tournament results, of which Yoshi has Zilch.

 

[KiwiBear]

tier list aren't important. if its one thing I know about tiers its a load of crap and here's why;

1) Characters that are usually top tier are those that some person was good with, and everything followed suit (copycat).

2) Yoshi is underrated all because of his prior having no 3rd jump. He has one now and most of the people in this thread understands that.

3)They're a bunch of crap anyway. people should learn to be individual. People only used Shiek, Falco, Fox, and marth before someone figured out how to exploit Melee's gaming engine. next thing I know, I see people owning with DK, and Yoshi (credits to Fumi).

4) Maybe some of you people that know this is true just can't speak for yourselves? You know yoshi is good, yet you lack the skill to help open people's minds to this idea.

5) You're poor and never could afford to travel to Orlando, to participate in the tournament. So you sit at home upset cause someone probably has your trophy (LOL)

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

tier list aren't important. if its one thing I know about tiers its a load of crap and here's why;

1) Characters that are usually top tier are those that some person was good with, and everything followed suit (copycat).

2) Yoshi is underrated all because of his prior having no 3rd jump. He has one now and most of the people in this thread understands that.

3)They're a bunch of crap anyway. people should learn to be individual. People only used Shiek, Falco, Fox, and marth before someone figured out how to exploit Melee's gaming engine. next thing I know, I see people owning with DK, and Yoshi (credits to Fumi).

4) Maybe some of you people that know this is true just can't speak for yourselves? You know yoshi is good, yet you lack the skill to help open people's minds to this idea.

5) You're poor and never could afford to travel to Orlando, to participate in the tournament. So you sit at home upset cause someone probably has your trophy (LOL)

1) Somebody had to actually prove they were good first right?

2) That isn't really the problem at all (read the rest of the thread for details)

3) Being individual doesn't make you a good player. And people are already owning with DK because he's actually good in this game.

4) We'll believe it when we see it.

5) So all the Yoshi players are just poor? Is that it? Or are all the Snake players just rich?

 

[yoshiunity]

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4855074&postcount=1208

Anyone who's questioning Yoshi's abilities. Please read this. I'll respect your opinion, just don't be a ******* when replying. I basically covered everything basic besides deeply on the recovery. I'll explain that if needed. Right now, I'll reply whenever.

 

[Gindler]

5) why do you have to travel to orlando to be in a tournament? I mean I live in orlando and all but aren't there tournies everywhere else too? I'm pretty sure there are.

 

[Shiri]

5) So all the Yoshi players are just poor? Is that it? Or are all the Snake players just rich?

I think what's going on here is this.

Everybody starts out poor.

But some Snake wins the first tournament and has money now.

So he's rich and goes to other tournaments beating people who aren't Snake.

Now he's super rich and everyone's like, "Yo, I wanna be rich, yo! I'ma be Snake n ****."

Now all the Snake players everywhere win all their tournaments and now they're all leaking $20s out the @$$ and junk.

I think that's what he was trying to get across.

 

[EggZavier]

Low of mid tier to mid of low tier. Mostly because he takes the longest to master.

But if mastered he can combo really well

 

[Deleted member]

I think kiwbear thinks that the only tournament that counts is MLG =/

 

[Talazala]

5) So all the Yoshi players are just poor? Is that it? Or are all the Snake players just rich?

BINGO! You get the prize. lol, j/k.

I would like to say there are just less Yoshi mains than other characters mains because most people pick him up, and feel his style is just to floaty and icky for them and drops him. That combined with his bottom tier ranking will deflect a good amount of people. I would also like saying there aren't many people who are actually good enough to win a tourney with Yoshi, due to the low number of people who actually play yoshi. That small amount of representation makes him low tier, and the cycle continues.

On course thats only a small fraction of the problem. We really need to go to more tournies so Yoshi can get the representation he needs!

 

[Toadsanime]

NOTE:I'm actually going to try and say this by being as little of a **** as possible.

Because using actual Data which Tier lists are based on...... where else could we really put him?

His tournament results are bad, and in the summer rankings he hasn't even PLACED yet while characters even worse than him have (CF >_>). And before you bring in the "Well that's because no one uses him" argument, That's the fault of the Yoshi community. Perhaps they need to step their game up, come to tournaments and show us how good Yoshi really is instead of the boatload of the whining that goes on when he's placed at the bottom of a Tier list, or maybe Yoshi really is that bad.

(Loads more unnecessary text that seems to just constantly drag on about Yoshi being bottom-tier due to the community's own faults.)

Bottom Line: Tier Lists need to be based on the Present, not the future

1) As Brawl is a new release over here in the UK, please answer me this: what exactly would you like for us to do to raise Yoshi's tier? I know you've said tournaments, but what tournaments exactly are you referring to? In the UK, we don't get any official tournaments set up for us. Even when a large community do have a tournament here, Yoshi's efforts are still ignored because the tournament was taken place in the UK, making it obselete in American's tier lists.
2) Cool it down. You've just basically b*tch-slapped a whole community without thinking about what you've said. You've just admitted yourself that Yoshi is hardly ever used by anyone, thus making his apperances in any tournaments lower than that of most characters. Therefore, the chances of the few Yoshi players winning a tournament are a lot lower than that of most characters simply because of the amount of Yoshi players, even if they are well-trained fighters. There are simply not enough Yoshi players for us to make a mark. Even when we beat our chances and do win a tournament, thousands of other Metaknight players have recently done the same thing, making us insignificant. Our stereotypical apperances cannot be changed if there are no more players taking on the role of Yoshi. Most players will never be willing to rise Yoshi's tier in this case.
3) You said that Yoshi hasn't even ranked yet, whilst 'characters worse than him have.' On what basis are you ranking characters worse than Yoshi? Tier lists again?
4) Why should anyone care, Yoshi community or not...? They're just tier lists. If other's think that Yoshi is a poor character, then let them have their own opinion. As long as us Yoshi players stick to our opinion and attempt to show what Yoshi is worth, tier lists are really not very important.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Yoshi's ranked now anyway so blehr

 

[Toadsanime]

Yoshi's ranked now anyway so blehr

But nobody would be willing to put him in tier lists, I'd bet. Even if they do, Yoshi will soon be off of the rankings again, only to be once again shunned by other character players.

 

[Mmac]

Yoshi is low mid, for now (he definitely has potential). Not bottom at all.

At least Samuari has our backs

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5012171&postcount=12542

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

At least Samuari has our backs

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5012171&postcount=12542

I predict he'll be mid low (or high low, as ridiculous as that sounds) instead of low mid. But I guess it would depend on how the tiers are ordered (i.e. how many chars in each group). In mid he would be encroaching on Tlink/Wolf/Pit territory and I don't think he's quite up to there.

 

[Naucitos]

as far as people talking about yoshis recovery, i don't know if i prefer his new up b, it IS great for recovering, but i can't drop below platforms and throw eggs anymore, and that kinda annoys me
On the other hand, i've only gotten gimped twice in brawl, and those were footstools (Not counting hitting my head on the bottom of final D :s )

 

[Chaco]

I like the new egg system better, he dropped in Melee making it almost impossible to recover. Yoshi has a few things going for him:

• Combo Potential
• Draconic Reverse Uses
• Currently Unknown AT's (Might be some more, but for now this is obsolete)
• Super Jump
• Fan boys
• Yoshi players have know feelings since...heck...they play Yoshi.
• YOSHI WEARS NIKE'S!!! (I love that sig)
• Good awareness in the Brawl Community.

What I mean in the last one is, most people who main Yoshi actually are going to stick with him. He's not really a player you just pick up to get an easy win. *Cough hack Snake MK hack cough*

So most of our Yoshi community is dedicated to him. He is who we would most likely play in tourneys. So we tend to try and learn everything he has to offer. Which might not be much currently but it took a while for WD to be discovered. It could take some time for a good tech to surface. End side 1.

 

[Mario_ 101]

Yeah, IMO most unpopular characters are ranked low because the "popular characters" get most rep, therefore more attention, which leads to more people maining/using them, and more people to give their biased opinion about how they thing "unpopular" characters suck. Though IMO Yoshi is a good character to me. Worthy of mid tier.

 

[Scala]

I think yoshi will be higher than mid tier tbh as the metagame progresses. It might be a stretch but I think if a player played a perfect yoshi match I think he could be low high.

Anyways, give it more time. I think we really are spreading awareness about how good yoshi can be. Even though I'm not all that great at him, I still beat /a lot/ of people when I'm in the zone and playing correctly and everyone always gives me a 'WOW I never seen anything like this' impression.

"Yoshi mains: Slowly changing opinions since 2008." <== should be our tagline hahaha

 

[Greenstreet]

someones gotta b at the bottom i guess

 

[bigman40]

I think yoshi will be higher than mid tier tbh as the metagame progresses. It might be a stretch but I think if a player played a perfect yoshi match I think he could be low high.

Anyways, give it more time. I think we really are spreading awareness about how good yoshi can be. Even though I'm not all that great at him, I still beat /a lot/ of people when I'm in the zone and playing correctly and everyone always gives me a 'WOW I never seen anything like this' impression.

"Yoshi mains: Slowly changing opinions since 2008." <== should be our tagline hahaha

Too good scala, too good.