Why Banning Tripping Should be Considered at Most National/Regional Brawl Tournaments

[Sails]

It's nice that those places exist, otherwise homebrewers would really be screwed if something went wrong. Probably the only thing a 3rd party wouldn't be able to fix is a brick... but that's why you install BootMii. ^_-

Time out, I haven't read the responses to this but are you saying that without third party repairers we would be screwed?

So long as the Wii boots and the SD card/USB slot works, you can revirginize your Wii without using a backup. The problem is that most people remove hacked content but neglect to remove the tickets, this is what causes the detection. If you go the extra step and do so, then you will not get caught.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That's exactly what I was talking about.

I figured, but I'm taking issue with you calling it "fallacious "Slippy slope" argument", there is nothing fallacious in attempting to prove that the assumption that "it stops here" will not be carried out by the community, you can argue that it's irrelevant, but quite frankly I disagree strongly.

We're from different necks of the woods. I've been harassed for using hacks more than once. Probably doesn't help that I prefer two mods of this game over regular Brawl.

90% of tournaments I've been to have texture hacks for at least one Wii, hell even the die-hard melee players are willing to play Brawl+ or Brawl-.


The fact that there's a tournament scene at all tells the story however, outside of smash, there would be no support period. None. Nadda.

Not at all. That's why I mentioned MLG. Apart from MLG, I've seen that nobody cares one way or the other about hacks. There have been decent sized Brawl+ tournaments for a year now.

Which is generally speaking, an issue for the venue to deal with. There will certainly be willing venues, but it's more an issue for the community on a large scale, and speaking from experience, venues are difficult to get already.

 

[MeatyBrawler]

Hey, it's like real life. We can't tell god. "No more tripping god, it's a dumb part of life!"
Just deal with it. But i do feel bad for logic.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Adum, can I just say, <3's? Many, many <3's? You beat me to the punch on the whole "there can be logically sound slippery slope arguments" thing. Hopefully, you can take the thread for a little while; I just got my hands on a nice USB loader (that works with my USB Hard Drive! Yippee!), so I might be... indisposed for a while...

 

[Masmasher@]

And where is the competitive component of a DDD pulling a Gordo in close proximity and getting the kill on someone who was only at like 60%?

If you're willing to change the game to remove a random component that detracts from competitive play, then why not remove all cases of random happenings?

simple the ddd inialized the attack....

 

[<π]

tripping is fine.

Tripping happens randomly when you dash. there is a very low percent chance when you dash that you will trip. simple as that it's something we all can easily understand. Should we have to change our play styles to work around this? yes obviously.

There tons of low percent chance stuff in the game. that can lead to death if it doesn't happen. GaW's hammer. I've won set because I've been 1 hammered before. it's the exact same idea as tripping. "Man if only that was a nine" Too bad it wasn't! You knew the risk in using the move and used it in a poor situation. I adapted to that and one my set.

I've lost many a time to a gordo "Nice looks like D3 is doing a waddle start up animation I'll shield dash in and punish! WOOPS it's a gordo, comes out earlier than I predicted. I'm dead." IF it wasn't, meh, I might have won said match, BUT I; understanding the risk; dash into it. who's fault is that?

It all comes down to risk and reward. Man up learn the game. In the end you lost because of your choices despite how poorly you understand their consequences.

 

[pure_awesome]

simple the ddd inialized the attack....

When DDD inputs Side B, there's an x percent chance he gets a Gordo.

When a character inputs dash, there's an x percent chance that he trips.


It's the same thing.

 

[Jack Kieser]

tripping is fine.

Tripping happens randomly when you dash. there is a very low percent chance when you dash that you will trip. simple as that it's something we all can easily understand. Should we have to change our play styles to work around this? yes obviously.

There tons of low percent chance stuff in the game. that can lead to death if it doesn't happen. GaW's hammer. I've won set because I've been 1 hammered before. it's the exact same idea as tripping. "Man if only that was a nine" Too bad it wasn't! You knew the risk in using the move and used it in a poor situation. I adapted to that and one my set.

I've lost many a time to a gordo "Nice looks like D3 is doing a waddle start up animation I'll shield dash in and punish! WOOPS it's a gordo, comes out earlier than I predicted. I'm dead." IF it wasn't, meh, I might have won said match, BUT I; understanding the risk; dash into it. who's fault is that?

It all comes down to risk and reward. Man up learn the game. In the end you lost because of your choices despite how poorly you understand their consequences.

Thank you. This. A million times this.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

The thing is, is that the Gordo is the desired outcome, you throw out a move with a random chance, in hopes that you get what you want. You don't dash in hopes of getting a random trip.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Thank you. This. A million times this.

I'm glad somebody put it into explainable wording that everyone can understand, personally. Basically, the decision of dashing while tripping, is that you dodge or jump dodge away from the opponent, and get yourself to a safe position where the risk of tripping is a safer decision. That's always a good alternative and technique if you're paranoid about tripping ruining your game.

If not, then... Sucks for it "slipping" your mind. Sorry guys, I had to use the word slipping there. (The word tripping would have just sounded odd and out of place?)

 

[Crow!]

The thing is, is that the Gordo is the desired outcome, you throw out a move with a random chance, in hopes that you get what you want. You don't dash in hopes of getting a random trip.

For fun, look up "Ink Drop."

 

[Masmasher@]

When DDD inputs Side B, there's an x percent chance he gets a Gordo.

When a character inputs dash, there's an x percent chance that he trips.


It's the same thing.

no its not...
competitvely the person should have options that work for them to enact on the opponent. thats what competition is. undersirable effect by your own options is the game itself working against you. especially on a random scale. the player initializes the attack to have the desired outcome of hitting someone. the gordo is of course the optimal effect.
having your own options working against you esepcially in a competitve fighting enviroment is...not competitive.
from the moment that the person uses side b to the point it leave the ddds hand both players are still in control of their characters . the opponent can dodge or counter the gordo.
tripping is removing control from one of the players and is decays the value of a universal option that is made to optimize competition.
Also NOONE can deflect the point of this happening in a tournament match...

 

[pure_awesome]

no its not...
competitvely the person should have options that work for them to enact on the opponent. thats what competition is. undersirable effect by your own options is the game itself working against you. especially on a random scale. the player initializes the attack to have the desired outcome of hitting someone. the gordo is of course the optimal effect.
having your own options working against you esepcially in a competitve fighting enviroment is...not competitive.

Game and Watch's Hammer can hurt him.

 

[Masmasher@]

Game and Watch's Hammer can hurt him.

opting to change that is a battle for another day and i will concede to that point but my second paragraph still applies to why tripping should be taken out.
its because of the hassle and legal issues it should just remain as it is but i see no morals or other reasons why it should stay in.

 

[GHNeko]

Game and Watch's Hammer can hurt him.

But it still damages the opponent. :V

So it's still better than tripping.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Same goes for Peach pulling a bomb rather than a turnip.

Fact of the matter is that many characters have luck based characteristics that we can't change either. Thing is, where do we draw the line as far as hacking goes? I'm not against hacking at all, but I'm not willing to put at risk playing on a hacked Wii because additional hacks that could be slipped onto the Wii, or even unexpected errors or glitches occuring because of the hack(s). Another thing is that, even with hacks, you're altering the game and I want to play the game in its own eentirety. Its own originally. I view tripping as a lame part of the game. However, take note that I said, part of the game. Despite me being against it, it's part of the game that we can't turn on/off. If that was an option, I'd be completely for it. But the reality of all this, is that it's not. It's something we as players need to deal with and get over. This is just another feature; part of Brawl; luck based, I know, but it's something that we need to deal with.

As mentioned before, this isn't the only thing that's luck based. There's plenty of other luck based game determining things that could happen, too. Such as Dedede's gordo toss, Peach's bomb pickup, and even Game & Watch's numbered hammer.

It shouldn't be removed by hacks. We should be able to accept it as a community, get over it, and play around it.

 

[Masmasher@]

why did noone read my second paragraph to show the difference between ddd side b and tripping?

 

[GimR]

The random argument is bad because you're taking one thing about tripping(its random) and trying to say that's the only reason we think it's bad. So you're basically taking something out of context and it's a weak argument.

The next thing you do is grab other elements in the game that are random and try to compare them to tripping just because they have one thing in common(they both have a random property involved with them)

That argument would make sense if we said the only reason tripping is stupid is because it's random. We didn't.

There are multiple reasons tripping is non competitive and should be removed if possible(the random property only being one of them) Once you mix all of those elements together you get the reason why tripping is a bad and should be removed.

Your argument is comparable to the following:

-tripping has invincibility frames in it. Since they want to get rid of tripping why not get rid of invinciblity frames in other moves to?

Obviously,this is stupid. Invincibility is only one property of tripping. We never said that every property of tripping by itself is bad and thus should be removed from every other part of the game.



TL;DR: A+B+C+D = why tripping is bad. If you just take A and say: well if this is bad then we should remove A from the entire game, that would make no sense because we aren't arguing that A alone is bad. We're arguing A+B+C+D is bad.

 

[AvaricePanda]

what is A+B+C+D then? You weren't specific.

Also, the fact that there's still a possibility of cheating (slim but there), plus the errors that may come with uploading the code (not exactly sure what), PLUS the fact that mandating a game to be hacked in the official competitive ruleset could put the entire community at risk means that honestly, even ignoring the whole philosophical argument about tripping being noncompetitive or tripping being a part of the game, this is still too much of a hassle and to risky to force everyone to implement.

 

[Vyse]

tripping is fine.

Tripping happens randomly when you dash. there is a very low percent chance when you dash that you will trip. simple as that it's something we all can easily understand. Should we have to change our play styles to work around this? yes obviously.

There tons of low percent chance stuff in the game. that can lead to death if it doesn't happen. GaW's hammer. I've won set because I've been 1 hammered before. it's the exact same idea as tripping. "Man if only that was a nine" Too bad it wasn't! You knew the risk in using the move and used it in a poor situation. I adapted to that and one my set.

I've lost many a time to a gordo "Nice looks like D3 is doing a waddle start up animation I'll shield dash in and punish! WOOPS it's a gordo, comes out earlier than I predicted. I'm dead." IF it wasn't, meh, I might have won said match, BUT I; understanding the risk; dash into it. who's fault is that?

It all comes down to risk and reward. Man up learn the game. In the end you lost because of your choices despite how poorly you understand their consequences.

I agree with this.

Sorry God-is-my-rock, normally I look forward to reading every thread you make, but I have to agree with keeping tripping in primarily on the basis that hacking is technically illegal and not an option the game gives us by default (as opposed to stage select, item select etc).

Tripping sucks, but it's part of the game.

For fun, look up "Ink Drop."

I remember this

 

[Judo777]

Um involving peach luigi gw and D3.

While there moves have random properties most player use them hoping for the random outcome.

If gw runs up and side Bs afetr he reads your roll he is doing it for the sole reason of hoping for a 9 hammer. If he doesnt get the nine then thats the risk associated with the move. Its not unfair because he could have just as easily not risked it and done an fsmash or upsmash but he chose to gamble and use the 9.

D3's throw gordos all the time. High probability for gordos. Now granted waddles are a good projectile too often when the D3 throws them he aims um just under u so that if a gordo pops up it will hit u bcause gordos fly faster. You should AWLAYS be ready for a gordo.

Luigi this is just dumb luigis side B is a terrible move most of the time. Just ALWAYS expect the misfire and if u are wrong thats fine punish him anyway hes got crazy cool down on tha move.

Peach is 1 character that i can almost see the argument for. Her turnips are already awesome and peachs dont really count on getting bobomb's or stich faces or w/e however. Unlike the other moves this 1 takes the most amount of time to use essentially. If u are watching the peach player as u should you should NEVER be surprised by them pulling a bomb or a sword or a saturn cause they dont look anything like turnips. The stitchface is the issue because it can be hard to distinguish em especially if peachs are facing a certain way or moving or w/e. However many peach players a very good at noticing when they have stitchfaces so it is an ability that can be learned. Also i might be wrong but isnt the chance of pulling non turnips like WAAAAAAYYYYY smaller? i wanna say like 1/156 chance or something.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I agree with this.

Sorry God-is-my-rock, normally I look forward to reading every thread you make, but I have to agree with keeping tripping in primarily on the basis that hacking is technically illegal and not an option the game gives us by default (as opposed to stage select, item select etc).

Tripping sucks, but it's part of the game.

Thank you! I agree with this post.

In a highly competitive scene (and sponsored, too) why promote illegally comeptitive gameplay? Even if it were legal, I would still disagree with it. It's part of the game and there are plenty of other situations that are just as bad / luck-based. It's something we just need to get over.

Tripping rarely occurs, and it rarely ever causes losing matches. Let alone that fact, it's extremely rare to lose an entire tournament to tripping, let alone a set. I don't see it as a problem.

 

[<π]

tripping is removing control from one of the players and is decays the value of a universal option that is made to optimize competition.
Also NOONE can deflect the point of this happening in a tournament match...

Second para?

gotcha. Every single option you do limits you character be it random or not. even dashing limits your options. you can't tilt you cant shield, etc.

The reason I brought up other random elements is because the player has to take the chance for the random effect into account and weight the possibilities. I've seen your "desired out come" lead to death. a peach pull a bomb as she gets hit be a lazer for a low percent kill. hmm... should peaches bombs not affect her? I've seen people misfire into fully charged smash attacks that other wise would have been avoided.
Whether or not these players intended this the blame is ultimately theirs for not taking into account that random chance right?

I feel the same is true for tripping. As a compedetive player you should be weighing that effect every time you run or every ,time you pull a turnip or everytime you waddle a dee. or every time you motar or everytime you hammer or every time or every time you green missile or every time you cook or every time you transform, every time you razor leaf, every time you do something that has a random effect it is up to you to understand and account for all possibilities. if you want to get rid of negative events caused by random elements like tripping, you have to get rid of every random event in the game.

 

[Masmasher@]

Second para?

gotcha. Every single option you do limits you character be it random or not. even dashing limits your options. you can't tilt you cant shield, etc.

The reason I brought up other random elements is because the player has to take the chance for the random effect into account and weight the possibilities. I've seen your "desired out come" lead to death. a peach pull a bomb as she gets hit be a lazer for a low percent kill. hmm... should peaches bombs not affect her? I've seen people misfire into fully charged smash attacks that other wise would have been avoided.
Whether or not these players intended this the blame is ultimately theirs for not taking into account that random chance right?

I feel the same is true for tripping. As a compedetive player you should be weighing that effect every time you run or every ,time you pull a turnip or everytime you waddle a dee. or every time you motar or everytime you hammer or every time or every time you green missile or every time you cook or every time you transform, every time you razor leaf, every time you do something that has a random effect it is up to you to understand and account for all possibilities. if you want to get rid of negative events caused by random elements like tripping, you have to get rid of every random event in the game.

Not the same...
tripping removes control completely
this is a competitve detterant.
the only completely random element in competitve play should be your opponent. your example of a peach getting lasered while pulling out a bomb is no different then someone who is below the opponent and decides to do a uair only to see that the person dis to the side while falling and bairs them. the same goes for misfiring into a smash attack.
Both of them had control of their players during the initialization of the attack. intentions/dersirable effects do matter in competition. randomness shouldnt limit you unless the opponent is initializing it. thats what tripping does. it decays the value of a universal option that was meant to assist you in competition. tripping is a contradiction those other moves are not... other than that the idea of "changing everything else" is null as it is not on the same frequency of discussion as this.

 

[Black Marf]

tripping removes control completely

Don't dash then.

When you dash, you take the risk of tripping, the same way that GDubs takes the risk of swinging a 1 whenever he uses his hammer. It's controllable, if very annoying to work around.

As for my personal stance (because people are going to be drawing conclusions and stereotyping me from my previous comment), I don't give a **** about tripping. It barely affects the game negatively, so there's little incentive to remove it (beyond the fact that it's annoying as hell). On the other hand, it doesn't add anything to the game, so there's little incentive to actually keep it. It's such a complete non-issue to deal with, that it shouldn't matter if someone hacks their Wii to remove it or not.

That said, it's an absolutely terrible design flaw, and there's no reason that Sakurai should have put it in. It's not just a thorn in the competitive player's side; every single casual that I play with hates it. Generally, when you add random chance to something, the correct design choice is to make it all positive, or have the negatives and the positives balance out. In the case of D3's item throw, Peach's fsmash/turnip, etc., it's all positive. You always get something good to happen by using the move (except for GDub's 1, but that's offset by the 9). With tripping, it's triggered by a dash. Your opponent should not be able to kill you off a misfired dash, the benefits and costs don't add up to anything logical. There is no reason to make dashing any more of a tactical decision than it already is. Tripping is just bad game design, period. It was made to be hated.

 

[<π]

trip invincibility has saved me more times than it's cost me.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Not the same...
tripping removes control completely
this is a competitve detterant.
the only completely random element in competitve play should be your opponent. your example of a peach getting lasered while pulling out a bomb is no different then someone who is below the opponent and decides to do a uair only to see that the person dis to the side while falling and bairs them. the same goes for misfiring into a smash attack.
Both of them had control of their players during the initialization of the attack. intentions/dersirable effects do matter in competition. randomness shouldnt limit you unless the opponent is initializing it. thats what tripping does. it decays the value of a universal option that was meant to assist you in competition. tripping is a contradiction those other moves are not... other than that the idea of "changing everything else" is null as it is not on the same frequency of discussion as this.

All inputs have a minimum amount of time that you lose complete control until it's executed, even shine in melee, only thing you can do is DI.

 

[Judo777]

I believe it was brought up that turning around also gives a chance to trip. So would ur advice also be to never turn around?

 

[adumbrodeus]

I believe it was brought up that turning around also gives a chance to trip. So would ur advice also be to never turn around?

Only during a run (I should find out if raring cancels it actually). So as a collineary to "if you wanna be perfectly safe, never run", "if you wanna be perfectly safe, never turn around while running".


And c-stick your f-smashes.

 

[Masmasher@]

Don't dash then.

When you dash, you take the risk of tripping, the same way that GDubs takes the risk of swinging a 1 whenever he uses his hammer. It's controllable, if very annoying to work around.

As for my personal stance (because people are going to be drawing conclusions and stereotyping me from my previous comment), I don't give a **** about tripping. It barely affects the game negatively, so there's little incentive to remove it (beyond the fact that it's annoying as hell). On the other hand, it doesn't add anything to the game, so there's little incentive to actually keep it. It's such a complete non-issue to deal with, that it shouldn't matter if someone hacks their Wii to remove it or not.

That said, it's an absolutely terrible design flaw, and there's no reason that Sakurai should have put it in. It's not just a thorn in the competitive player's side; every single casual that I play with hates it. Generally, when you add random chance to something, the correct design choice is to make it all positive, or have the negatives and the positives balance out. In the case of D3's item throw, Peach's fsmash/turnip, etc., it's all positive. You always get something good to happen by using the move (except for GDub's 1, but that's offset by the 9). With tripping, it's triggered by a dash. Your opponent should not be able to kill you off a misfired dash, the benefits and costs don't add up to anything logical. There is no reason to make dashing any more of a tactical decision than it already is. Tripping is just bad game design, period. It was made to be hated.

its not the same...
you have the intent to use random b attack with a consistent following. to attack the opponent...this is not spin the bottle. you shouldnt be looking at the variation of random effect for your OWN move as positive of negative. the amount you get out of it varies but the intention of the person is always there and the fact is they initialized it for that purpose.
tripping takes away control from you/your intentions and throws it in a neutral space. outside of your control. the only time that should be happening in fighting is when you are getting comboed.
Universal options that are used to enhance competition should not be decayed by random undesirable effects. tripping contradicts competition. THAT is the difference between down b- pulling a turnup and dashing

 

[Jack Kieser]

People really need to stop trying to contrast tripping and Turnip Pulls / Gordos / 9's / anything else that's random but good. Random is random.

A D3 getting a kill off of a Gordo is still random.
A Peach pulling a beam sword and out camping all match is still random.
A G&W getting a 9 at a time when any other number would have killed him is still random.

Just because something is positive does not mean it's not random. If tripping is bad because it's random, everything else is. If G&D's 9 is ok because it's user-initiated, so is a trip. If Gordos or Stitchfaces are ok because they don't happen every time, neither does a trip.

It's risk/reward. Deal with it. G&W doesn't put out hammers all day; he puts them out when the risk of getting a low number is outweighed by the reward of getting a high number. You don't spam turnips all day without protection; you do it when the risk of being hit is outweighed by the reward of having a projectile. You don't spam Doos and Dees endlessly; you throw one when the risk is exceeded by the reward.

And you don't initiate dashes all willy-nilly. You do it when the risk of tripping is outweighed by the reward of getting somewhere fast. If you're in a position where a trip might land you in front of a Snake F-smash... don't initiate a dash!

 

[Masmasher@]

people need to stop removing intent from using certain movements.
people need to stop removing desired effect /control to limit the contrasting of tripping and using b moves with random scaling of the same intention.

 

[adumbrodeus]

people need to stop removing intent from using certain movements.
people need to stop removing desired effect /control to limit the contrasting of tripping and using b moves with random scaling of the same intention.

Turnips are a risk-reward situation, you initiate the move hoping to get a stitchface but it simply doesn't happen all the time.


Dashing is a risk-reward situation, you initiate the move hoping to get a normal dash, but it simply doesn't happen all the time.



Just because the ratio is geared towards one side or another doesn't change the fact that it's still random, and you still always want the best result, but it doesn't always happen. Furthermore, there are uses for the others.


Though personally, if I were developing a hack on my own...


I'd buff off those moves regularly but remove the random from it.

 

[Palpi]

I don't like your turnip example. Don't think it fits well.

 

[Strong Badam]

Brawl would still be pretty gay, so what's the point?
By the way, in case no one else noticed, there's no way the BBR would ever agree to any sort of codeset for their rule set. And neither would MLG. At all.

 

[Masmasher@]

Turnips are a risk-reward situation, you initiate the move hoping to get a stitchface but it simply doesn't happen all the time.


Dashing is a risk-reward situation, you initiate the move hoping to get a normal dash, but it simply doesn't happen all the time.



Just because the ratio is geared towards one side or another doesn't change the fact that it's still random, and you still always want the best result, but it doesn't always happen. Furthermore, there are uses for the others.


Though personally, if I were developing a hack on my own...


I'd buff off those moves regularly but remove the random from it.

A universal technique should not be risk reward. that deters it competively. gearing towards one side is the intent. your ignoring the intent. there is no risk in pulling a turnup except the cause of the opponent attacking you. the only component that should produce a negative effect. Also you mentioned that there are uses for the others. What use does tripping have except to remove you from the game control wise...

 

[adumbrodeus]

A universal technique should not be risk reward. that deters it competively. gearing towards one side is the intent. your ignoring the intent. there is no risk in pulling a turnup except the cause of the opponent attacking you. the only component that should produce a negative effect. Also you mentioned that there are uses for the others. What use does tripping have except to remove you from the game control wise...

There is no such thing as a technique that doesn't have risk/reward, anything can be predicted and countered, and everything limits your options.

Honestly, dashing isn't all that good in the first place.

 

[fkacyan]

A universal technique should not be risk reward. that deters it competively. gearing towards one side is the intent. your ignoring the intent. there is no risk in pulling a turnup except the cause of the opponent attacking you. the only component that should produce a negative effect. Also you mentioned that there are uses for the others. What use does tripping have except to remove you from the game control wise...

We all agree! That's the kicker. Everybody thought that Cloak of Shadows having a 10% chance to not block spells was stupid, because if you got hit through it to defeated the purpose of the move! But just because we agree on the fact that the problem exists doesn't mean that the solution suggested in this thread is the best one.

The difference is that in WoW, they can patch it out without players illegally editing the game for competition. We can't do that here. The best we can hope for is that Nintendo somehow releases official competition discs to MLG that has randomness removed in most capacities (Veggies aren't random but are stronger than weakest veg, weaker than stitch), GnW has a few hammer options but not the 1 or 9, etc, and of course tripping removed, but the odds of that are slim to none. The best you can do is adapt to the fact that dashing is on rare occasions unsafe.

We can't ask MLG to hack a game. We can't afford to make that a competitive standard and risk the competitive scene taking a huge hit.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I personally see no problem with tripping at all, so as to why everyone continues to argue on this thread is beyond me. Unless there's an alternative solution, we just have to suck it up and deal with it as players because this is not the solution.

Also about the universal tripping discussion. You're just at risk to trip and lose to the same outcome as the opponent. Think of that. Just don't put yourself at risk to trip in a bad situation.

 

[GimR]

I personally see no problem with tripping at all, so as to why everyone continues to argue on this thread is beyond me. Unless there's an alternative solution, we just have to suck it up and deal with it as players because this is not the solution.

Also about the universal tripping discussion. You're just at risk to trip and lose to the same outcome as the opponent. Think of that. Just don't put yourself at risk to trip in a bad situation.

Read the OP please.

Dashing is Dire for some of the characters' metagames. So in essence certain characters are a lot more likely to trip then others.

Peach is probably the least likely to trip cause she floats into everything she does while in contrast Olimar is probably the most likely to trip because he has to dash into everything he does(Dash in U-smash, Pivot Grab, dash in u-air, etc.)