Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

[#HBC | Ryker]

Look, is not like you I disagree with your case at all, but YOU were one of the first slots after Kary and Gorf to decided to let him and leave and then focused on Orange.

After extracting as close to commitments as I could from Gorf/Tom.

Also, I ended that phase on Lore, not Orange.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

wow ebwop fixed in quote **** me

Oh, you want those too. Click any of the posts in that spoiler and read down for a little. It'll do a better job of giving you a still shot of Soup's initiative than any list of specific examples of bad I can bring up.

 

[Fandangox]

After extracting as close to commitments as I could from Gorf/Tom.

Also, I ended that phase on Lore, not Orange.

Yeah, but you had the case on Orange that you specifically told me to look into when I asked town about it.

 

[Fandangox]

Fair, I just found it hilarious how bad Soup's response was. I'm also incredibly bored at work. I'll stop.




Thanks for the answers.

They're two slots that haven't been discussed much, and I want to pin down how people feel about them as the game moves forward. Do you feel null on both, or do you have any leans in a direction?

Townlean on Marshy, null on Kevin. If that's the reason why select 2 different players for Ryker? Why not ask us both about all 4 of them?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yeah, but you had the case on Orange that you specifically told me to look into when I asked town about it.

Sure. I was asked to flesh out more of my reads and I decided to work on that. You're right. I didn't like Orange.

 

[Fandangox]

I had no idea this happened. It's kinda ****ed up, to put it mildly.

Fandango while you're answering questions: Read on Tom?

Also, any questions for me? I'm leaving work in a bit, but will be able to answer them later depending on how busy I am.

Null on Tom. I'll probably make a bigger post about where my head is at when I get home from work. No questions atm

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Also, Gorf, if you absolutely don't want to read in context, I will go find more if you need them.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

hey boys and girls i'm back hyuck

tag me if you need me for anything.

 

[Pythag]

Fandangox

depends on flips tbh.

I'm interested in FF/Marshy interactions.
I was also interested in you, but that's coming up kinda null.

As for soup/lore...
I've also been trying to factor in the fact that so many people consider soup scum. it certainly hurts having never played with him and seeing AtE used in such a way as Ryker and you just mentioned. I think even Kary wrote "I have written down to never trust PR claims from soup" Up until this most recent post by ryker and you, I thought everyone was kinda taking the piss. This makes me seriously rethink some things.


On the other hand, why would he claim oracle, as he literally only becomes useful to town when he's lynched?
I don't get why everyone wanted to kill an oracle claim before they even get to do anything, that doesn't make much sense to me. So I'm about to go relook what happened post claim.

soup definitely seems to be the play today though,

If he's town and truthful, we open up another townie, while removing all the suspicion from him from the game and learning a LOT through his lynch,
if he's scum, we eliminate scum and learn a LOT through his lynch

Seems smart to me.

vote soup

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Hang Soup

Soup has 5 pages of posts which exhibit multiple stretches of complete **** where he memes for a time. I'm not gonna bury you in quotes, but if your memory is so short that you take issue with what I claim he's done, then you can come and ask me and I'll fetch them. So first, I'm going to lay some groundwork.

We do not trust AtE from Soup. We do not read tone from Soup. We do not play that game because he has utilized these things before. This is the slot who faked an outburst and replaced out of a game in order to get a town read for the guy who replaced into his slot. Soup has a HISTORY of this **** and his play is scummy as balls and doesn't line up with a frustrated townie.


1.) Hammer vote.

His first issue is his Ryker "hammer." This post was shortly after the hammer.



This post was a good little while after it when he was catching heat for it. #413 I'd quote it, but it's huge text and bold.

The thing is, it doesn't matter. Setting me to L-1 that early when players could roll in and hammer is a ****ing terrible look. It was a joke, regardless of alignment, but it was a terrible vote if town and a very convenient way to put a townie at L-1 where a quickhammer could accidentally occur as scum. **** all the "IT WAS ONLY JOKE" garbage because it does look awful. This is what originally got me onto Soup, but it's not what I want him dead.

2.) Immediate Post Claim Behavior



There's the claim. It's #421.

For the next few hours, Soup does nothing I like. He unvotes Lore saying "I may be wrong on Lore." He calls Spak town on tone. He says the Pythag push is really good (it's not and #HBC | Gorf has talked about it more than me) and votes him. He continues to snap at people who dislike him. He responds with phoned in answers (Like him answering a question about reads from Ranmaru with the fact that he and Kary are unaligned). He unvotes Lore saying "I may be wrong on Lore." Nothing he does here takes effort. He, in fact, phones in multiple reasons why he doesn't want to give any effort at this point. It's mostly reactive and Soup stays like that, which brings me into my third point.

3.) Extended Post Claim Behavior And What I Perceive As The Motivation

I think Soup blew up. I don't think that was faked. However, I think he's a scumbag who exploded. The reason he was so reactionary and awful immediately following his claim is because he didn't want to put in the effort if he was going to get CC'd. He just wanted someone to out themselves and then hit the bricks (which, now that I think about it, means there's probably a roleblocker if Soup is scum). That's why, until we'd heard from most of the cast and there was a relaxation of the pressure on Soup, we never got the read list. Too much work if he was just gonna die, but then he woke up and went "huh, I'm still breathing, maybe I can get out of this."

His readlist is trash. Like, super trash. His **** posting when he realized he was slipping to the next phase on that claim reads like gloating. On the whole, I don't see Soup trying to be proactive except for after he's been called out for a lack of initiative.




I hate this slot. I will not stomach this slot. I do not know why others are willing to give it a pass. His explosion is not townie. His hammer vote is not townie. His claim is not townie. His reads are not townie. His **** posting is not townie. He is not a townie.

Lynch him.

I'll try to do this little by little.

Soup has 5 pages of posts which exhibit multiple stretches of complete **** where he memes for a time. I'm not gonna bury you in quotes, but if your memory is so short that you take issue with what I claim he's done, then you can come and ask me and I'll fetch them. So first, I'm going to lay some groundwork.

We do not trust AtE from Soup. We do not read tone from Soup. We do not play that game because he has utilized these things before. This is the slot who faked an outburst and replaced out of a game in order to get a town read for the guy who replaced into his slot. Soup has a HISTORY of this **** and his play is scummy as balls and doesn't line up with a frustrated townie.

Honestly, you and everyone else have a false dichotomy about the way I present myself. It's why I stopped playing here. Nobody has had a problem with me off-site or attributed my play as any indicator of AtE. The other person on my wagon can attest to this, because we've played multiple games off-site. People want to be right, you yourself should know that because you want to be right 100% of the time. You can only allude to a history of my play but don't even attribute what it means. Apparently everything I do is just some kind of AtE, which is genuinely lazy on your part. If I bring in emotion into my argument, it is to stress the necessity of it or explain myself. I don't do Emotion backing Logic, I do Logic that backs my Emotion, Think about it for a second.

This post was a good little while after it when he was catching heat for it. #413 I'd quote it, but it's huge text and bold.

The thing is, it doesn't matter. Setting me to L-1 that early when players could roll in and hammer is a ****ing terrible look. It was a joke, regardless of alignment, but it was a terrible vote if town and a very convenient way to put a townie at L-1 where a quickhammer could accidentally occur as scum. **** all the "IT WAS ONLY JOKE" garbage because it does look awful. This is what originally got me onto Soup, but it's not what I want him dead.

I think you're biased because it was you who was put at L-1 honestly. I've been trying to read your slot since this but you've pretty much literally and I mean literally not agreed with me on a single thing. And why? Looking into your own case on me, I still don't have a strong understanding outside of something that happened in RVS why you are against me, or this whole AtE thing you and many people refuse to let go of. Apparently this is not your "reason" why you want me to dead so I'll move on from this.

I think Soup blew up. I don't think that was faked. However, I think he's a scumbag who exploded. The reason he was so reactionary and awful immediately following his claim is because he didn't want to put in the effort if he was going to get CC'd. He just wanted someone to out themselves and then hit the bricks (which, now that I think about it, means there's probably a roleblocker if Soup is scum). That's why, until we'd heard from most of the cast and there was a relaxation of the pressure on Soup, we never got the read list. Too much work if he was just gonna die, but then he woke up and went "huh, I'm still breathing, maybe I can get out of this."

These aren't arguments and you know this. How can you say 'we don't trust soup AtE or even read into it that much' then spend a whole paragraph essentially saying 'soup's AtE was scummy this time and not townie.' It's getting ****ing old. I'm ****ing old. I'm about to be 25 in a couple of months, I am not the same pisspants 18 year old you're trying to read. The only problem you have I see is my claim and the emotion surrounding it. I can't ask you what'd you do if someone else claimed oracle in that position because it doesn't exist, but I have to ask what exactly you're looking for. I just feel like you've essentially decided I am scum no matter what I do, because you're the same person that dayvigged EE and made him literally retire, you just..absolutely refuse. The end of this paragraph is guesswork at best, and while I've had the same thoughts about certain things, if I can sit here and do all this guesswork and postulate theories and get **** on for it, why the **** are you suddenly the town messiah? This is why your case is weak.

His readlist is trash. Like, super trash. His **** posting when he realized he was slipping to the next phase on that claim reads like gloating. On the whole, I don't see Soup trying to be proactive except for after he's been called out for a lack of initiative.

I ****post because it's funny. There's no ulterior motive to it. "My reads are trash" like whatt does this mean lol. Your only read you've talked about is me you hypocrite. Anytime I try to see where your head is at it's like big brother-little brother where I'm not cool enough to hang with the likes of you.

I've sat here and explained myself ten times over, maybe you should contest on me the logic I've presented instead of trying to merely guess my motive. I never pinned you at that type of person honestly so it's almost ****ing shocking.

I hate this slot. I will not stomach this slot. I do not know why others are willing to give it a pass. His explosion is not townie. His hammer vote is not townie. His claim is not townie. His reads are not townie. His **** posting is not townie. He is not a townie.[/.quote]

You didn't explain anything or talk about anything that people haven't already said before. You use the easiest argument against me and nothing more. Are you sure you're a townie?

 

[Lore]

On the other hand, why would he claim oracle, as he literally only becomes useful to town when he's lynched?
I don't get why everyone wanted to kill an oracle claim before they even get to do anything, that doesn't make much sense to me. So I'm about to go relook what happened post claim.

This is literally why he chose it. He was more likely to have town keep him alive for at least one day, if not more if he pulled it off right. Some town could decide not to lynch "and leave him to scum to kill".

At worst, he gets to get a power role exposed and CCing him. At best, he lives for multiple days. It was the best role to choose for a fake claim.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP:

I hate this slot. I will not stomach this slot. I do not know why others are willing to give it a pass. His explosion is not townie. His hammer vote is not townie. His claim is not townie. His reads are not townie. His **** posting is not townie. He is not a townie

You didn't explain anything or talk about anything that people haven't already said before. You use the easiest argument against me and nothing more. Are you sure you're a townie?

 

[Fandangox]

giraffelasergun votecount please

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Fandangox

depends on flips tbh.

I'm interested in FF/Marshy interactions.
I was also interested in you, but that's coming up kinda null.

As for soup/lore...
I've also been trying to factor in the fact that so many people consider soup scum. it certainly hurts having never played with him and seeing AtE used in such a way as Ryker and you just mentioned. I think even Kary wrote "I have written down to never trust PR claims from soup" Up until this most recent post by ryker and you, I thought everyone was kinda taking the piss. This makes me seriously rethink some things.


On the other hand, why would he claim oracle, as he literally only becomes useful to town when he's lynched?
I don't get why everyone wanted to kill an oracle claim before they even get to do anything, that doesn't make much sense to me. So I'm about to go relook what happened post claim.

soup definitely seems to be the play today though,

If he's town and truthful, we open up another townie, while removing all the suspicion from him from the game and learning a LOT through his lynch,
if he's scum, we eliminate scum and learn a LOT through his lynch

Seems smart to me.

vote soup

Why do you secondguess yourself so much in your own post?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Spoiler: Phoning It In

Response to me about asking about backing down on Lore.



"Not all scum are on the wagon." Said everyone about every wagon ever.



Explanation for Spak town read. Excuses to not add more content (there's more of those too).

You are showing but not telling. You are showing what you dislike about me but I've got zero ****ing clue how it determines scum.

 

[giraffelasergun]

Votecount:

Soup (4): Marshy, Ryker, Lore, Pythag
FrozenFlame(1): Soup
Lore(1): Ranmaru

Not Voting(5): Kevinm, Tom, Fandangox, Gorf, FrozenFlame

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is in ~75.5 hours from this post

 

[Pythag]

soup
I'm all ears right now.
I don't have the AtE background that you accuse so many people of having.

Who should I vote for, and why?

Why do you secondguess yourself so much in your own post?

Cause I'm bad at mafia.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

soup
I'm all ears right now.
I don't have the AtE background that you accuse so many people of having.

Who should I vote for, and why?



Cause I'm bad at mafia.

I talked about how I felt FF/Gorf could be a good angle at the start of this day. FF is not here to respond and apparently Gorf completely passed over it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm pretty I'm dead here though. Ryker gets what he wants because Fanny will vote me and so will KevinM. Do look into that.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I don't really know what Kevin flips but if he's town then at least you got an inkling of how misguided the dissent towards me has been. If he's scum then cool I was right kiss my ass again

 

[Pythag]

I talked about how I felt FF/Gorf could be a good angle at the start of this day. FF is not here to respond and apparently Gorf completely passed over it.

Who is town?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Also, Gorf, if you absolutely don't want to read in context, I will go find more if you need them.

nah i gotchu homie

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Who is town?

If FF is scum then probably Gorf and vice-versa. Not getting my lynch probably though so in hindsight I'd still townread Gorf on the basis of his play D1 (do not think he spearheads Spak like that in a powerwolf fashion). Ran should be fine if I'm not wrong on Lore and it's gotten to the point that I'm not going to waste brainpower looking into it. I think a hot take of mine would to be townread Tom in my nulls (which I already kinda was) so there's that too.

Everyone else is a tossup. I don't understand why Fanny/Ryker are ubiquitously townread.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Typically by asking questions, getting hard stances down from people, and committing hard to lynches until I'm shown decent evidence they aren't the lynch. I'd rather tunnel a bit and see how people perform under focused pressure rather than half *** it.

But I've had it shown repeatedly to me that the tunneling is just plain ****ing bad, so I'm trying to work on it.

are you essentially 100% stronghold sold on the soup lynch toDay? if so, can you give two more really strong reads of yours and describe in your own words (you can use quotes if you want) why you read them whether town or scum at this point, and two you really want a better grip for a read on?

 

[Pythag]

If FF is scum then probably Gorf and vice-versa. Not getting my lynch probably though so in hindsight I'd still townread Gorf on the basis of his play D1 (do not think he spearheads Spak like that in a powerwolf fashion). Ran should be fine if I'm not wrong on Lore and it's gotten to the point that I'm not going to waste brainpower looking into it. I think a hot take of mine would to be townread Tom in my nulls (which I already kinda was) so there's that too.

Everyone else is a tossup. I don't understand why Fanny/Ryker are ubiquitously townread.

Ok, so FF or Gorf, and Fanny/Ryker.

if Ff or Gorf is a good angle, why would make the case towards them? Wouldn't it be better to present the case to us?

I don't know if you'll ever convince a person that they're scum, but the rest of us? you may be able to do that.

I had a gut scumread on Fandangox yesterDay. So I don't know why you're reading him as being ubiquitously townread. Got anything to help?
Ryker was null until he started more normal yesterDay.

What lynch helps town the most today?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Ok, so FF or Gorf, and Fanny/Ryker.

if Ff or Gorf is a good angle, why would make the case towards them? Wouldn't it be better to present the case to us?

I don't know if you'll ever convince a person that they're scum, but the rest of us? you may be able to do that.

I had a gut scumread on Fandangox yesterDay. So I don't know why you're reading him as being ubiquitously townread. Got anything to help?
Ryker was null until he started more normal yesterDay.

What lynch helps town the most today?

I mean, I think I just summarized my thoughts or how I felt about D1 afterwards and decided it could be an interesting angle to pursue. Did you read it?

If you had a gut scumread on Fanny why did you keep it to yourself? When it comes to Fanny I just find his posting to be mostly ineffective, because sure it seems like he's doing something but it never really like, amounts to anything. If you could tell me what fanny's thoughts are outside of me/Lore do let me know. What do you mean by normal?

I think FF/Gorf should be solved sooner rather than later. I have you and marshy on the backburner because it just doesn't seem all that doable.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vote Lore

Will DEFINITELY go back to Soup, but I don't want cheeky votes to pile up and quicklynch him.

 

[ranmaru]

Soup is town. #102 Shows that he is likely joking. #167 Seems to be genuine thoughts. #256 Shows frustration after explaining his joke. #421 His claim, was confusing to me. I thought it may have been to attract attention away from other wagons (being scum with them possible) but with Spak flipping town, this isn't the case. It also makes me to think Soup is less likely scum for not finishing the Gorf and Me convo the page before. Why as scum, would he leave that conversation if Spak is town and he could benefit from it? #658 His reads seem genuine.

His PR choice makes sense, as investigative may either choose to target lynch targets to block them, or ignore those and go for nulls, which I think is a smarter choice. Choosing Kevin over Lore doesn't make it less likely for people to want to lynch him.

To me, this is consistent with his personality. His aim in mafia and EIMM is to troll and have fun. Notice how as Town, Soup does stupid things and gets lynched for it. Yet as mafia, he is always read as obvious townie, and always seems to have more of an agenda and image. Plus, having a town PR, enables him to play in such an anti-town way.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

You didn't explain anything or talk about anything that people haven't already said before. You use the easiest argument against me and nothing more. Are you sure you're a townie?

Lmfao

I used the easiest argument because that's how you lynch someone. I JUST gave this TED Talk.

 

[ranmaru]

Lore I re-read the game. Then I re-read it again. Then again.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

These aren't arguments and you know this. How can you say 'we don't trust soup AtE or even read into it that much' then spend a whole paragraph essentially saying 'soup's AtE was scummy this time and not townie.' It's getting ****ing old. I'm ****ing old. I'm about to be 25 in a couple of months, I am not the same pisspants 18 year old you're trying to read. The only problem you have I see is my claim and the emotion surrounding it. I can't ask you what'd you do if someone else claimed oracle in that position because it doesn't exist, but I have to ask what exactly you're looking for. I just feel like you've essentially decided I am scum no matter what I do, because you're the same person that dayvigged EE and made him literally retire, you just..absolutely refuse. The end of this paragraph is guesswork at best, and while I've had the same thoughts about certain things, if I can sit here and do all this guesswork and postulate theories and get **** on for it, why the **** are you suddenly the town messiah? This is why your case is weak.

uhh did we read the same thing?

I talked about how I felt FF/Gorf could be a good angle at the start of this day. FF is not here to respond and apparently Gorf completely passed over it.

what did i pass over now?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

To me, this is consistent with his personality. His aim in mafia and EIMM is to troll and have fun. Notice how as Town, Soup does stupid things and gets lynched for it. Yet as mafia, he is always read as obvious townie, and always seems to have more of an agenda and image. Plus, having a town PR, enables him to play in such an anti-town way.

Are we playing with the same slot? I seem to recall Soup being the easiest player in the world to finger because he would explode when touched and then you could read where his real motives were.

Also, having a town PR does NOT enable you to play in an anti-town way. Especially not a town PR that ACTIVATES WHEN YOU DIE

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

uhh did we read the same thing?



what did i pass over now?

I think so?

Lmfao

I used the easiest argument because that's how you lynch someone. I JUST gave this TED Talk.

What do you do if it's wrong? I feel like such an ass for saying this again, but to be honest everytime I do nobody seems to have a solid answer.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Wagonomics as I was talking about earlier insists that there's at least one scum on the Orange wagon. I don't know if Gorf powerwolfs here and spearheads a Spak lynch in the way he did. It doesn't fit the M.O of his last game entirely. I recall FF being critical of Gorf however so I wonder if this heightens his paranoia about the situation. It's really interesting to me that despite Gorf/FF seemingly being at opposite ends, their votes are in tandem with one another. Other than that we have Pythag who was the leading suspect for Spak, and to be honest I don't really remember what his stance was at the end of the day. A lot of his posts just read off as a drive-by than really sitting down and looking into things. Ran is ran, then you've got Kary who flipped town and then Lore who put him to L-1.

I think Gorf/FF would be an angle I'm willing to pursue today. I'm not going to sit here and say that I feel they're exclusively partners, but I agree with JeXs/Spak's assumption that perhaps there's something a little off about FF after all.

Vote: Frozenflame

#HBC | Gorf

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Ran is backing off because Ran thought he had the entire scum team solved in three slots. That is more in line with Ran.

 

[ranmaru]

If Mac were here he could verify that this is true, since in Simpson's Mafia he town read him over me. I have seen Scum soup lurk super hard but also still seem townie and genuine while doing so in Doctor Who Mafia. I just don't think Scum Soup would be so present when arguing with Lore. TOWN PR enables *him* in that way due to his personality.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

What do you do if it's wrong? I feel like such an *** for saying this again, but to be honest everytime I do nobody seems to have a solid answer.

Continue playing mafia? I look harder at FF and Marshy, less hard at Tom. I still revisit Lore.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Continue playing mafia? I look harder at FF and Marshy, less hard at Tom. I still revisit Lore.

This is a good ass answer despite the circumstances I'm in.

 

[ranmaru]

Soup I think your Gorf reasoning is weak and don't support it. What happened to your Pythag read?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ran, how do you feel about Orange's Pythag case?