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Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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expand on pythag plz
His posts nearing EoD was essentially grabbing onto relevant topics and making idle comments about them with little to no impact. Where you the one who said you feel Pythag is noobtown?
 

Lore

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Doing some FF14 before bed in an hour, but I have time for a post or two.

Yup #1 town read died way to go scumdar lists
I've heard a lot of debate outside this game lately about scumdar lists. Whether they help scum more (by giving them a guide to play around) or if they help town (by forcing people to put down reads). I assume your comment refers to that debate?


Agreed on no quick hammer, but I (like yesterday) want Soup gone. I still believe him to not be truthful, no offense to him on a personal level.

Is it beneficial to ISO Kary and see if Kary had a view that got him killed? Or is that too WIFOM? I also assume since many had him as town, that could be a strong motivation too.
 

#HBC | marshy

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His posts nearing EoD was essentially grabbing onto relevant topics and making idle comments about them with little to no impact. Where you the one who said you feel Pythag is noobtown?
that was gorf

what made you want to start off with frozen today as opposed to pythag? howd you get there from liking his "white hot" start?
 

#HBC | marshy

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Is it beneficial to ISO Kary and see if Kary had a view that got him killed? Or is that too WIFOM? I also assume since many had him as town, that could be a strong motivation too.
kary was the one to start the soup push and one of the better townies in the game. doubt well get anything from reading into it past that
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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that was gorf

what made you want to start off with frozen today as opposed to pythag? howd you get there from liking his "white hot" start?
I mean, if I was shortsighted about Kary based on the pretense of disliking his attitude, then me reading Frozen based only on his attitude means that I should reconsider where I'm looking.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Why did you Oracle Kevin and not Kary
When I'm PR I like to use my abilities as a failsafe, not a confirmation. Maybe it'd be different if I were say, a town cop, but Oracle can help confirm slots I'm less sure on. If I went on Kary on the equilvalent of a scumread, I don't imagine it's all that productive to me or to anyone else saying 'lol i orced my scumread please lynch'
 

Fandangox

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Oh look I changed this
When I'm PR I like to use my abilities as a failsafe, not a confirmation. Maybe it'd be different if I were say, a town cop, but Oracle can help confirm slots I'm less sure on. If I went on Kary on the equilvalent of a scumread, I don't imagine it's all that productive to me or to anyone else saying 'lol i orced my scumread please lynch'
Okay fair enough. And why not Lore? I know you are townreading that slot, but this is literally what most slots let you live another day for.

And What do you think of Gorf's defense of Pythag after the flip?
 

Lore

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I mean, if I was shortsighted about Kary based on the pretense of disliking his attitude, then me reading Frozen based only on his attitude means that I should reconsider where I'm looking.
Maybe, but considering how I disliked Kary's attitude yet still had him as a strong town read, I think you should definitely reconsider if you're using attitudes to judge things.

Pretense is also an interesting word choice. I'm likely reading too far into it though.


Okay fair enough. And why not Lore? I know you are townreading that slot, but this is literally what most slots let you live another day for.

And What do you think of Gorf's defense of Pythag after the flip?
He said he didn't want to "follow the hive mind" due to everyone being opposed to him, more or less. Likely salt is the culprit, but frankly I think it was a scum-centric choice.

The game has been centered around Me, Soup, and Spak (less so Spak). So knowing that his Oracleing me could clear my slot and remove the haze over me, yet choosing someone else? It's fishy.

You could argue that he wanted to try to avoid his lynch today, but that's ignoring how he could have died from a scum shot or a vig last Night. I think he's full of crap, to be honest.

"But Lore, if he's scum then he wouldn't get a result if he gets killed?" Exactly, but it wasn't his motivation imo. By not Oracleing me, he removed the option from Town to lynch him and try to clear my slot. Having chosen someone else, he can wing it and hope for me to be mislynched today instead.

By choosing a lower value target, he raised his chances of not being lynched. He's scum.
 

Lore

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One last EBWOP: My first paragraph talking about him avoiding his lynch is talking as if he's thinking from the perspective of an Oracle. If he was a town oracle, he would have known the risk of his choice and not chosen to try to avoid his lynch.

I'm a bit tired, and my wording is getting poor. I'll comment more on my argument tomorrow, but imo the KevinM choice makes him scum.
 

Fandangox

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Oh look I changed this

Lore

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Before bed, I'll just make a summary of my argument:

If he had chosen me, he would have been the lynch target today instantly. By choosing a lower priority target, he raises his chances of living "to get another result" while simultaneously hoping that I'll get mislynched instead.

If he was a town oracle, he would have seen the value of targeting me, the literal only other wagon focus left alive outside of himself. This is especially true when you consider that if he was a PR, he would be target #1 for scum. Even knowing that they might not risk a protect role etc, he should still have chosen me in case he died.

But nope, he chose a self-serving target. I also assume he began his "Lore is probably town guys, so is Spak" push yesterDay for the same motive: earning points with town by defending town players who might get flipped. His swap to me as a wagon shows how thinly veiled his self-serving attitude was.


And that's the summary, worded best I can. I need sleep. Good night.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

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Okay fair enough. And why not Lore? I know you are townreading that slot, but this is literally what most slots let you live another day for.

And What do you think of Gorf's defense of Pythag after the flip?
Why would I oracle someone you guys are talking about lynching. Isn't that a complete waste? It's the same reason why I didn't pick Kary, because the fact remains that I gain nothing oracling slots that have equity to be lynched.

Marshy clairfied it was Gorf that defended Pythag but in terms of comments about it's pretty much we'll see
 

Lore

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Got up to pee, quick reply because this is hilarious.


Why would I oracle someone you guys are talking about lynching. Isn't that a complete waste? It's the same reason why I didn't pick Kary, because the fact remains that I gain nothing oracling slots that have equity to be lynched.

Marshy clairfied it was Gorf that defended Pythag but in terms of comments about it's pretty much we'll see

Lore: "Soup didn't say he Oracled me in order to hope for me to get lynched instead of him. He's self serving."

Soup like 30 minutes later: "Why would I oracle someone who could be lynched instead of me? What do I gain from that?"

This is ****ing hilarious lol.
 

#HBC | Gorf

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still lowkey recovering from work yesterday so ill come in better read from the eod.


#HBC | Gorf #HBC | Gorf anything to say about the flip? Still thinking Pythag may be town?
yea that sucks. i dont think pythag being his top scumread has any sort of bearing on my read of pythag. i stand by the case he brought being ****ty. from what i isod alone, id still say slight noobtown aside from the last post he had before he ghosted for a while on like pg 10. but im curious to look more into how he played eod cuz i know he was around.

imma take the Day to mostly really look back through the lens of seeing kary's play. i dont think id sus kary for being pr if i was scum, so i wanna look more into who he was interacting with and pushing, in tandem with how the game progressed post soup claim. truth is, i dont really see the majority of peoples bloodlust for a soup lynch go down, and given the flip, i have a hard time fighting it. if he used his power on lore, it gives us a much less fogged image of the game regardless of his own flip (i do NOT see scum!lore with scum!soup). i dont have a great idea for personal direction past that yet.
 

ranmaru

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I think Soup's choice to not choose a lynch target / non-pooled target makes sense, especially since that seems to be PR play down to the book. I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Between Soup and Lore, I choose Lore.

Vote: Lote
 

#HBC | Gorf

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Doing some FF14 before bed in an hour, but I have time for a post or two.



I've heard a lot of debate outside this game lately about scumdar lists. Whether they help scum more (by giving them a guide to play around) or if they help town (by forcing people to put down reads). I assume your comment refers to that debate?


Agreed on no quick hammer, but I (like yesterday) want Soup gone. I still believe him to not be truthful, no offense to him on a personal level.

Is it beneficial to ISO Kary and see if Kary had a view that got him killed? Or is that too WIFOM? I also assume since many had him as town, that could be a strong motivation too.
i generally think sometimes its beneficial not to give every single read you have if its not important. scumreads are usually always good to give if you feel incentivized to share reads. townreads are important if theyre significant enough for you to share (like spaks on soup and you because they were relevant), but theres benefits to keeping them closed too. i usually think a whole scumdar list is tough unless you just feel like being totally open and letting others question you is a style you dig. but oftentimes the less info for scum about the minutia of your reads the better fmpov
 

Lore

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I think Soup's choice to not choose a lynch target / non-pooled target makes sense, especially since that seems to be PR play down to the book. I am surprised no one has mentioned this yet. Between Soup and Lore, I choose Lore.

Vote: Lote
Near the end of the day, you suddenly said that you were beginning to doubt that Soup is scum. However, a (brief) look today didn't show me any posts where you explained this sudden shift. Do you mind explaining it now?

In addition, I'm not sure how self-serving nonsense if "PR play down to the book." He practically admits himself that he's prioritizing what he can get out of things rather than what town can get out of it.



I also found a few posts Fandangox Fandangox about Spak/Orange that I never replied to, so here it is: Spak/Orange had been an iffy slot since the beginning of the game, where I had a large back and forth with Spak about my hypothetical question. I repeatedly said that I had difficulty reading the slot, including my big Read List post where he was included. To me, he was a viable lynch choice but would have been a much better Vig shot.
 

#HBC | Gorf

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Damn man, I actually ****ing drove a townie straight to the noose LMFAO I suck

Mobile posting, but I’m off today so I wanna see the game knowing spak and kary was town later on
 

giraffelasergun

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Votecount:

Soup (2): Marshy, Ryker
FrozenFlame(1): Soup
Lore(1): Ranmaru

Not Voting(7): Kevinm, Lore, Pythag, Tom, Fandangox, Gorf, FrozenFlame
 

#HBC | marshy

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hes a coinflip ima read into when i get some time. hes done a lot of argument/logical **** that i dont think is past his range as scum. speakin of which

#HBC | Gorf #HBC | Gorf

whats your take on frozen?
 

#HBC | Gorf

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i have a guttown read on frozen just because of how he went about the soup lynch yesterDay. biased i know but i seriously think it was worth the delay if soup is bound for the gallows, and I super gelled with the way frozen approached it. nothing else he did really ping me in the moment, but i know he had a good presence eod and i wanna see more thoroughly how he navigated it. i dont hold crazy amount of faith in this read tho

ran is mostly chillin. operating on his position on the wagon, i dont think its far fetched for ran to operate under the mentality of a soup-lore-spak scumteam and i know thats how he approached his thinking. and i know its wifom but itd take some balls to ride a Day out scumreading all three of those the way he did as scum.
 

Lore

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#HBC | Ryker #HBC | Ryker Similar deal, but two different players. Tom and Gorf. Opinions on those two slots? Also, which would you kill?

Tom Tom One thing that people brought up is how Spak gave off Doop vibes from how he went aggro against my hypothetical. However, you did similar (but a lesser amount), yet you got a free pass. In your own words, why do you think this was passed over and ignored?


Trying to spread out discussion since my dumb ass tunneled so hard D1. I still want Soup gone, but I want actual discussion happening. We can quicklynch Soup and move the **** on, or we actually use the time we have to get concrete answers out of people. Being idle gains us nothing.
 
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