Whose Mafia Is it Anyway - Game Over!

[#HBC | Ryker]

Considering the fact that the game is about lynching scum, I'm down for lynching Soup. I firmly believe that he is lying.


I'm also going to pull a not-me and choose not to respond to Ran. I feel no need to prove that he was weird about hopping on the wagon; it was painfully obvious.

Okay, you're down for lynching Soup. Would you rather do it today or tomorrow? I'm still not sure what you want.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Lore is easily ignored and is solved by NAR. I'm not trying to be mean but people are trying to say that lynching Lore/Me won't reset the day but I disagree. In the event I'm wrong? Well, I'll eat ****ing crow. If lore is scum then I'll have to reconsider a few things, but I would say on a Lore scum-flip there's no ****ing way Spak fakes that interaction with him early.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Lore is easily ignored and is solved by NAR. I'm not trying to be mean but people are trying to say that lynching Lore/Me won't reset the day but I disagree. In the event I'm wrong? Well, I'll eat ****ing crow. If lore is scum then I'll have to reconsider a few things, but I would say on a Lore scum-flip there's no ****ing way Spak fakes that interaction with him early.

Why is Lore more easily solved by NAR than any other slot?

 

[ranmaru]

Frozenflame, Soup has defaulted to AtE more than once already. I'm pretty sure it's manufactured and Soup has the range to do so as scum and has done so. Let me get you a quote.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Mannnnn my boys Tom and marshy jumping from Lore wagon to soup wagon after claim when the wagons were 4-4 looks hella ****in grim to me like damn thats some opportunistic ****, the more I look at that the worse I feel about those slots =(

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

PYTHAG

Spoiler

pg 4

Spoiler

Lore

Lol, I don't know if you need to cook up the elaborate hypothetical situation, do you think it adds more? Or would it be better to just have
"who would you kill"
"who would you save"

Kill : Tom or Soup

(though I REALLY cracked up at the "I'm aligned with town" conclusion tom gave us)

Save : Marsh or Spak

Marry : Enlightened Gorf

Lore I have no wiggle room?

These questions are more or less "what are your scum reads, and what are you town reads" do you agree or disagree with that?

Tom - I think how he reacted to you was leading, more leading than the questions you asked me

Soup - The vote on Ryker and subsequent unvote made me uncomfortable. He's ok with an accidental hammer, but not setting up ryker to be hammer by someone else? seems like backpeddling.

Marsh asks good pointed questions, I would want to prevent him from dying.

Spak is active reading a lot. I disagree with his initial read on you, but it strikes me like town

these are the first real posts of content that pythag has posted. note that at this point the early spak/lore **** went down and we can only presume that pythag had his own personal doop=spak correlation that he later verbalizes when i bring it up. i will want to focus in on this development later so i wont touch on that too much yet. early reading tom (i seriously keep accidentally saying "town" lmfao the ****** rekt me) and soup as scummy. the tom read is whatever but its an early read so *shrug.* the soup read is interesting though, says he doesnt like how hes okay with an accidenal hammer but not putting him at l1. calls it backpedaling. note this is the first serious slight to soup about his ryker vote thing being shady that anyones said. nobody pointed that out yet, it is unique at this point. not sheeping. some may call it... scumhunting. curious about his handling of soup as this progresses.

calls marshy and spak town for light reasons. but again, its pg 4. but keep the spak read in the back pocket for when he pivots later.

@#HBC | marshy

Do you think soup's defense is legit? claims he Didn't vote count yet was ready with a hammer post?

MORE pursuing his unique soup angle.

pg 5+6

Spoiler

I guess I see it different. Lore V Spak looked like it was resolved at least kinda between the two of them. Struck me as two earnest people, so I guess I didn't see there being much to discuss there.

Lore asking questions though, I mean, I see that as generating conversation. I guess I see it as it happening quicker, but not...inorganic? idk. Or is this conversation more about meta and RVS rather than scum hunting. I guess I see more conversation about different topics or more concrete things can create more situations for scum to slip/

Tom

Okok

confirmed.

Lore I don't necessarily care one way or the other if you can see me or not. Personally I'm with Tom in that I wouldn't use it as a tell? I guess? usually it means either I left the webpage up at work, or I'm on mobile. I don't like phoneposting if I don't have to. (though if asked a question while I'm on mobile I might answer to say that that's my situation)

response to marshy explaining how lore is not letting the game organically progress and offers his perspective on the topic. sees lore v spak as "two earnest people" working something out. seems decently enough reasoned to me honestly, and seems to get a townread from lore off it, which is noteworthy. and again, more reiteration of spak being town despite having, presumably, made the spak=doop correlation thatll come up later. but so far, dude seems like hes checking out pretty alright by me.

Fandangox Where you at?

What do you think about Soup?

pretty consistently throwing around soups name. i usually put value in the fact that people arent voting, but subjectively, i can jive with his ambivalence here because at least he has the content to back up his stance. at this point the only real force behind soup pressure is kary and ryker sticking his vote there without much to say regarding it. unless im reading it wrong, pythag is making a large amount of the early buzz on soup.

pg 7

Spoiler

Really don't like this post or vote. For some reason it would've been more acceptable to if you had just stated "Lore v Soup? Wonder how I'm gonna vote." and then vote soup.



I also don't like this.

Spoiler

I know what I said earlier about Lore v Spak, seemed TvT. However, I also recall reading early Spak interactions and thinking it reminded me of doop (with some of doops first posts being negative). I might could find myself voting for Spak.

unvote, Vote: FrozenFlame for now

you know with the context of pythags content lined up this post feels much less obtuse than i was willing to think it was. lores initial vote on soup was grimetastic, but pythag had been townreading lores early play. this cognitive dissonance sucks to see as town, but hes consistent in his weariness to just hop in.

he also has a cognitive dissonance with the spak thing, acknowledging that he had said earlier that spak v lore was tvt. again, he is the second person to express approval of my absolutely dank analysis (only to kevin), but its in contrast to an early townie feel he had for spak. so instead of hopping on the wagon, he seems like hed rather take his time and decide what to do about it.

and instead of voting for either of those two players, he votes ff. why he doesnt vote soup here is still questionable but not wanting to settle on putting his vote on lore or spak here makes sense for someone whod rather have his vote on someone who he definitely approves of for a wagon...

I don't totally understand what you mean. If it's an explanation I think it actually looks worse, because of the timing? Maybe I'm reading that wrong.

Re: My FF vote
While people have posted things I don't like, FF has a total of 1 post. Right now I think I don't like that even more.

...and he takes more early game stock in things he firmly doesnt like. again, dunno why hes not voting soup instead, but i can buy where hes coming from as a passive player, which he definitely seems to be.

pg 8+9

Spoiler

On mobile :

Well, it was mainly that as I was reading I was like “man, does every game start with mafia being negative?”

Doors first post was being negative towards Marshy

Marshy later called JTB scum because of everything JtB said was negative, and that’s Indicative of scum.

Still chewing on that as being a scum tell or not.
But I did see / feel similarities in Spak’s play.

Just like the direction Gord’s At. I’ll try to write more in a bit

i also can buy this being his mindset, and wanting to kinda brush aside the correlation. its a thin correlation, and honestly, not overrationalized or anything like that. not overselling the point. pretty straight.

I get both of y'alls frustration, but this is what it looks like to me :

10Lore : I found this scummy
20Soup : It was a joke
30Lore : You can't prove that
40Soup : You can't prove that
Goto 30



I'm not familiar with how you play, but Gorf and Ryker's post make it seem like Lore and you are pretty much behaving as normal. I would say that Lore's play looks similar. I'm kind of put in a position to have to trust other members of the HBC with regard to you, and no one else seems to be alarmed. Either they're all scum or this is par for the course.

Not being familiar with your sense of humour, I can see where Lore is coming from. There's an aspect about your vote on Ryker that isn't adding up, even as a joke, but I'm not necessarily wanting to beat a dead horse, or further push frustrating in that regard.

this is also a reasonable explanation for not wanting to go super hard on soup. he feels like the back and forth between soup and lore is messy. because it is, but hes trusting in other people that have experience with them that its kind of normal play. hes still seen trying to parse through it as ive pointed out, but not interested in really picking a side on it quite yet. he just doesnt feel comfortable doing it with whats been presented, and is fine deferring for it. not dissimilar to how im taking on lore.

1. On mobile in a car (not driving) will do my best tho.

2.

Initially I did think that Lore vs six pak was TvT. The conversation seemed earnest.
On a reread I noticed that spak had early negativity, like doop and maven. While maven wasn’t scum, doop was. So that was in my head, but I didn’t necessarily want to only base things on the previous game. However, to write it off completely means I’m giving the benefit of the doubt to spak for no real reason.

3. Gorf bringing it up validated some of what I was thinking or noticed, but thought enough of that “tell” (and I’m ruining Gorfs case because I need to reread, wanted to for Soup too) of doop similarities were there, at least for Gorf to warrant a vote. That caught my attention. And having someone else vote towards that has definitely pushed me more in the direction that I could see a spak lynch.

4.i have Gorf as null.

more laying out his mindset, and it all adds up to what hes been saying. notably, he has me null from the whole thing, which is telling of his unwillingness to give a firm stance on someone just because they said something that piqued his interest. not just defaulting to a read (which would have been easy for him in this instance), and its consistent with how hes been playing.

pg 10

Spoiler

Ok, I have limited access until Sunday night, as I have been traveling for Independence Day.
Also all my posting until then is on mobile.

unvote vote : spak/Orange

FF’s post was solid.

I also like his catch on Gorf calling himself town.
It’s a personal thing, I don’t like people straight up calling themselves town like that, exceptions given to Kevin and Tom because it’s been hilarious and more tongue and cheek.

Gorfs “town post” is the primary reason I have him as null rather than town lean. But it’s been primarily personal so I don’t that I feel as strongly as FF does.

Spak and Fandangox and currently at the top of my scum list.

Fandangox looks opportunistic as heck voting on Lore and then pressuring me for votes.

Fandangox also looks like he was trying to dismiss my scum read on Spak with regard to the negativity argument. Looks bad for him if spak flips scum.

Spak however looks scummiest. In his defense and voting for me he manages to cast shade on Kary, Lore and Soup, (and me obv)

I’m sorry that I’m only on mobile, and I have much worse reception where I am at, but that’s what I have for you at the time.

this is the post that made me seriously question my thoughts on pythags alignment. up until i read this post first time around my initial thoughts were that he was playing fine and not much noteworthy from him. but he mustve handed the phone to his little cousin or something when he made this.

he votes spak, saying ff's post was solid. with the context that hes pretty much gonna be gone until after the Day ends, this makes sense considering the fact that he has spak as the scummiest of his reads.

but his agreement about not liking me call myself town is whack, his fandangox read looks super thin, and his spak reasons just look like a mangled mess. im willing to give this post the benefit of the doubt, though, because weve seen instances in this game and the last where he just flat out misspeaks in his posts or flat out reads things wrong because of being on mobile. i think the rest of his play holds up enough for me to think hes not the play for the Day, but i am still interested in how he carries on past toDay. not the strongest townread i have, but honestly, townread enough for me not to support his wagon toDay.

 

[Lore]

Okay, you're down for lynching Soup. Would you rather do it today or tomorrow? I'm still not sure what you want.

Sorry, should be more clear.

I want Soup as today's lynch.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Why is Lore more easily solved by NAR than any other slot?

Because he's a lightning rod, man. Name a single person who has townread Lore besides me and Spak. I know that sounds crazy, like I seriously just laughed about it IRL but think about it. He's been the town's villain for so long I can see him getting vigged, tracked, you name it.

 

[ranmaru]

Let me lay out why I firmly believe soup is scum and not a pr and why I am eager for his lynch:

1. He stated disagreement on Spak page 10. Doesn't respond.
2. Tom brings up soups vote count mistake, soup explodes when it is not a normal reaction.
3. He claims early.

All in all, he cares more to respond to Tom which *escalates* him to what he wants, to claim early and get people off him, instead of conversing about reads he disagrees with. This is playing with a survival mindset, not a scum hunting one.

Keeping myself sane. I don't know why it's DGames that tends to tilt me but I've spent my time away from here playing on other sites. I feel like others sometimes get this idea that they can rattle me and believe that's the only way to read me, but this is frustrating personally because I don't want that to be the case. Kary plays how Kary does but for Ran to give me close to the same treatment just pinched a nerve.

 

[Tom]

.Plus I’m having trouble wrapping my head around Lore being ALLOWED to play so badly without someone on his team telling him to stop posting where as with Soup I can see an explosion AtE post and then backpedaling after confirmation with a team.. it does feel gross to lynch a potential PR on day 1 but it’s also like.. what the **** do I gain from him being alive D2 if he gets there. Plus like we could just **** around and win the game during the day phases continuing on anyways.

What a conundrum.

I'm p sure one of us has played scum and literally refused to speak to scumteam before. Think it was you.

Mannnnn my boys Tom and marshy jumping from Lore wagon to soup wagon after claim when the wagons were 4-4 looks hella ****in grim to me like damn thats some opportunistic ****, the more I look at that the worse I feel about those slots =(

I did what now?

 

[ranmaru]

FrozenFlame, have you been hard reading soup as town simply due to his tone?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

id say i have a light noobtown read on pythag, but i wanna press him for sure toMorrow. in short, pythags play has been very lowkey, and not super willing to make hard plays. but i see the threads of his scumhunting, and his reaching out to ask questions, and i can follow most of where his head is at. his development and rationales behind his spak, lore, and soup reads make sense to me, and he does try to interact with players early on in his soup suspicion, and stops pressing the issue too much when he finally decides to default on it when he notices that hes not acting out of character, necessarily. id rather see lore or orange dead before him. his play is consistent, but hes not tryna pander the thread like orange is tryna say. thats ****ing bull****

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

It's like nobody read the setup and saw there was a possible vig. Scum doesn't play the setup like they are now being loud and boisterous, especially not on D1.

Not trying to make that condescending I promise

 

[Fandangox]

Because he's a lightning rod, man. Name a single person who has townread Lore besides me and Spak. I know that sounds crazy, like I seriously just laughed about it IRL but think about it. He's been the town's villain for so long I can see him getting vigged, tracked, you name it.

Kary.

 

[Tom]

Where is marshigio

 

[ranmaru]

lmao his true name

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Kary.

Ye dun ****in' say? That also made me laugh.

id say i have a light noobtown read on pythag, but i wanna press him for sure toMorrow. in short, pythags play has been very lowkey, and not super willing to make hard plays. but i see the threads of his scumhunting, and his reaching out to ask questions, and i can follow most of where his head is at. his development and rationales behind his spak, lore, and soup reads make sense to me, and he does try to interact with players early on in his soup suspicion, and stops pressing the issue too much when he finally decides to default on it when he notices that hes not acting out of character, necessarily. id rather see lore or orange dead before him. his play is consistent, but hes not tryna pander the thread like orange is tryna say. thats ****ing bull****

What do I do out here in Mars if I respectfully disagree? This isn't aimed to you but have you really been thinking Me/Lore/Spak could be a scum team here?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: This isn't aimed at you entirely*

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

youre such a defensive ****** dude i would love you to show me where ive been scumreading you

 

[KevinM]

I'm p sure one of us has played scum and literally refused to speak to scumteam before. Think it was you.

I used to do it to fairly often but that you pick your battles on people that aren't going to make a lot of noise. IE Rockin I did it too once, as well as usually any time I was paired with a new player. Great introduction into mafia tbh.

 

[KevinM]

Welcome to mafia you idiot. never talk to me and dear god am I gonna bus the **** out of you.

 

[KevinM]

I was such an ambassador for the brand

 

[Lore]

Ran, that post in no way clears up your weird behavior. The explanation post came a decent bit after the original "I'll vote if everyone else is down for it" post. I've quoted for convenience.

I am ready to flip soup, and feel we got enough out of him that I would vote him if others were fine if he were lynched right now. I did the same last game before voting Tom I think.

Let me lay out why I firmly believe soup is scum and not a pr and why I am eager for his lynch:



1. He stated disagreement on Spak page 10. Doesn't respond.

2. Tom brings up soups vote count mistake, soup explodes when it is not a normal reaction.

3. He claims early.



All in all, he cares more to respond to Tom which *escalates* him to what he wants, to claim early and get people off him, instead of conversing about reads he disagrees with. This is playing with a survival mindset, not a scum hunting one.

You were weird first, THEN you actually gave reasons.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

youre such a defensive ****** dude i would love you to show me where ive been scumreading you

You got ninja'd my guy, I'm just trying to get how this all lines up somehow. Maybe you're not thinking about it like that and maybe others aren't, I know it's preemptive but I figure now with all the attention on me I might as well indulge in my crackpot theories feel me?

That's pretty much what the rest of the phase for me has been

 

[Lore]

Here's an even earlier one, which was followed by more Spak and Lore discussion instead of an explanation:

I am ready to vote soup in my next post unless anyone has any objections.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Frozenflame, Soup has defaulted to AtE more than once already. I'm pretty sure it's manufactured and Soup has the range to do so as scum and has done so. Let me get you a quote.

Do what you gotta do man but that chaotic spewing of reads by soup post claim seems authentic stream of conciousness bumbling idgaf town to me, like you're gonna have to persuade me hardcore to believe that was manufactured

Plus I’m having trouble wrapping my head around Lore being ALLOWED to play so badly without someone on his team telling him to stop posting where as with Soup I can see an explosion AtE post and then backpedaling after confirmation with a team.. it does feel gross to lynch a potential PR on day 1 but it’s also like.. what the **** do I gain from him being alive D2 if he gets there. Plus like we could just **** around and win the game during the day phases continuing on anyways.

What a conundrum.

LMAO re: the "how could a scum team allow this horse**** play" hahahaha yeah dude thats why if soup is scum I think he legit doesn't give af about helping his team and has just gone on a solo gambit with no consideration for the long run payoff for his mates. Borderline playing against wincon IMO, which only makes me think hes more likely to be town

I get what you're sayin re: not gaining anything from him being alive D2 other than having a speculative piece of extra info we get upon his flip. Role samples in OP say that oracle reveals alignment of a play that the oracle selected once the oracle dies. So we need to flip soup in order to get the benefit of his claim. This is actually kind of a solid argument for waiting to lynch him D2 if that's what people want to do because then atleast we get a mitigation of the mislynch if his claim is legit because we get the info from his power, assuming he isn't RB'd tonight. If we lynch him today we're just throwing all that potential out the window

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I swear to god I'm repeating myself.

It's not that they need to line up. It's not that I think everyone thinks Lore/Me/Spak must be the team, I do see the other side and it's less about pinning the team and lynching scum. You want to decide who's scummiest out of us 3, who's the best option. I vibe with that more than you think, but my problem with fully agreeing is that I don't really think any of us are scum, yknow?

 

[ranmaru]

Do what you gotta do man but that chaotic spewing of reads by soup post claim seems authentic stream of conciousness bumbling idgaf town to me, like you're gonna have to persuade me hardcore to believe that was manufactured

Tell me more about his play before that. Why do you think he had an outburst? Think about that.

 

[Lore]

I swear to god I'm repeating myself.

It's not that they need to line up. It's not that I think everyone thinks Lore/Me/Spak must be the team, I do see the other side and it's less about pinning the team and lynching scum. You want to decide who's scummiest out of us 3, who's the best option. I vibe with that more than you think, but my problem with fully agreeing is that I don't really think any of us are scum, yknow?

Ngl this entire exchange reads like scum trying to throw WIFOM into the mix pre-flip. "yeah I flipped scum, but I sure did defend two people right? HMMM."

Like cool, you townreading me is nice. But I'm baffled why you're spending your time defending people as town instead of pressuring another slot or trying to get another lynch.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: And more about just lynching scum*

I've talked my alternatives about things, If Lore is scum I probably look into Ran because I think Lore would try to do some silly distance stuff with him right now that is basically unprompted and genuinely confusing. There's not enough credibility on my gut and I think that Ran pretty much just hard tunneling me right now despite being on Lore for the majority of the time until I claimed PR is kinda whack but I'm sitting here thinking my boy is just misled. Definitely can see how I'm an idiot though.

When it comes to Spak? Probably way harder. Lore/Spark 100% not a team been saying this for ten years. I don't think Spak is trying to distance Pythag unwarranted at the juncture either, it was completely unprompted. I read more than you think I do #HBC | Gorf and I get the feeling you believe Spak just dropping a **** vote on top of his play is more damning than guessing Pythag's intent, which you believe is probably noobtownie.

 

[Lore]

And before you quote this at me, I did find a much earlier explanation:

So here's my thought. I think our best town winning play is lynching Soup. I think he's scum and he is desperate. I also think Lore is scum with him, due to Lore's grimy vote on Soup, which makes much more sense now. He had some sudden reversal and it didn't really make sense until now. Then the third scum... as no surprise... is Spak. Yet I'm more confident Soup > Lore flip scum, and then after we can get Spak. Yes, I think all scum have been wagoned.

If you were this confident, why did you feel the need to ask for permission or approval?

 

[Lore]

I've talked my alternatives about things, If Lore is scum I probably look into Ran because I think Lore would try to do some silly distance stuff with him right now that is basically unprompted and genuinely confusing.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/projec...rs/pcmcat158900050018.c?id=pcmcat158900050018

 

[ranmaru]

I think it's simple. You don't put someone at L-1 when town is not ready. Putting him at L-1 risks discussion stopping (scum may decide to self hammer) and I'd rather not hurt that. That's the only reason and situation I would do so, and I have history as town doing so. Trying to place a vote at L-1 without considering would mean I just care more about my image than town.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I did what now?

can you tell Im burned out af and rushing ****? fml sorry bro

IMO theory says Soup should be spared 1 night to submit an Oracle action in the event they are town

Thoughts?

Yeah Im just dumb

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I think Ryker/Kevin/Tom is like a nice candybar and one of them is a crunchy scum nougat in the middle. This symbolism is poor. I wish we talked about that more instead. My gut tells me Tom is least likely.

 

[Tom]

B R O W N I E P O I N T S

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

soup, i can buy a world where you, lore and pythag are all town and orange is scum. soup, i think if you get your head out of the tunnel youve projected yourself into and read my analysis youll agree with my thought process regarding pythag. after that, do me a favor and vote orange because you find my logic convincing enough to sheep my vote.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

B R O W N I E P O I N T S

LOL these type of flexes make me feel like ur mocking me don't do this to my little ****boy heart

 

[Tom]

LOL these type of flexes make me feel like ur mocking me don't do this to my little ****boy heart

You ninja me sir, I'm collecting points from effeff

 

[ranmaru]

Bad move, you should have said you were collecting for both.