Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[ChikoLad]

Next up is Mr Resetti. With the ability to wipe your save data and being completely invincible and walls of text over both his game he heirs from and in Smash he's basically unbeatable.

But he only does that if you neglect to save.

 

[MagiusNecros]

But he only does that if you neglect to save.

No Resettin

 

[Munomario777]

No it isn't. Cloth physics are just impossible to get perfectly correct in a game like Smash, which can lead to the fade effect being clear as day, but you can still see it even when it's working properly, as I posted an image of above.

Then why does Pit remember Smash in Uprising too ("I used them in the last brawl" "Super Bash Sisters? I think you mean Super Smash Bros")? Why does he also have Palutena's Bow in Uprising, which debuted in Brawl (and was given to him by Palutena during the Subspace Emissary)?

Furthermore, how come Mushroomy Kingdom is World 1-1 after many years of time has passed?

There are so many elaborate links between Nintendo's games, including Smash, that it's kind of nonsense to deny their connections. It's different when it's a cute subtle reference, but when characters are appearing in other games (Samus in Mario RPG, a biological relative of Metroids in Kid Icarus), iconic things associated with characters appearing in other games (Olimar's Ship as a mandatory, traversable planet in Space Junk Galaxy, Samus' Ship in DK: Tropical Freeze), and Smash outright disclosing unanswered questions about other games, and characters from those games remembering Subspace (it's referenced multiple times), there is no way you can deny the events of Smash actually taking place.

And the Luigi's Mansion in Mario Kart isn't like the real one at all, therefore it's not canon. Layout is totally different and it's smaller. Like I said, Mario Kart is just a game that bases it's appearance off of other games, yet has no story based link to even a main series Mario game. I'm pretty sure Rosalina doesn't have an Ice World at all, and I'm pretty sure the Comet Observatory is not stuck in ice.

I mean, it wouldn't even make a difference if it was canon anyway, because as I've already pointed out, Rosalina's dress is like that in Mario Kart because you were never intended to see up it or in other Mario games either, while you are in Smash. I don't doubt that Mario and friends go kart racing, but it doesn't have any relevance to any timeline as it never goes out of it's way to fit in anywhere, especially since paradoxes like the babies exist.

They don't work perfectly, so they mess up, which is an unintended feature, or a malfunction. "Glitch: a sudden, usually temporary malfunction or irregularity of equipment." In fact, you already said it for me:

You can get the dress physics to glitch up which reveals that they only modelled up the fade and that it's not a lighting trick, so Rosalina's legs end up floating there.

My apologies, I haven't played Uprising.

Let me just say that I'm a believer in the crossover/one-big-universe theory, and that I do believe that Smash can be considered "canon" (not sure if this was made clear before).

Actually, the mansion in Double Dash!! is one of the mansions E. Gadd builds for Luigi at the end of Luigi's Mansion, depending on how much loot the player earned.

I can agree that it wouldn't make much of a difference, but I do believe Mario Kart is canon. Mario Kart: Super Circuit has Bowser's Castle from Paper Mario in the background of Rainbow Road, Luigi references the series in Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, and, of course, many Mario characters appear in those games. If Samus sleeping in Mario RPG, the S.S. Dolphin in Mario Galaxy, and Samus's Gunship in Tropical Freeze count as crossovers, then I'm pretty sure Mario appearing as the main character in a game counts as well.

As for the points against it, Smash does the same things:
Ice World - I'm pretty sure that Animal Crossing: City Folk's Town and City areas don't have a migrating platform above it, with the sidewalk raising up to meet it. They're going to use artistic license in these games in order to make them work with the gameplay/make them unique. (Other examples include: Mushroomy Kingdom, which never looked like that in Mario, Kalos, Wrecking Crew, Paper Mario, Coliseum, and Mario Galaxy, with the Starship Mario from Galaxy 2 flying around a planet from Galaxy 1, which never happened in the source games.)
Timeline - Smash doesn't put itself in any of its franchises' timelines, either. When does it happen in Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, etc.'s timelines? (This goes for all the crossovers mentioned earlier as well.)
Baby Paradox: Link and Toon Link. They're two different generations from two different timelines, and yet they're both here, in Smash! (Also, Yoshi's Island from Brawl can have a grown-up Mario in it.)
Again, not saying that Smash isn't canon; just saying that Kart and Smash are pretty even in terms of canonical soundness. In other words, if Smash counts as canon, Mario Kart counts as canon.

Anyway, I'm going to be mostly unavailable until Tuesday or so (the 16th).

 

[ChikoLad]

They don't work perfectly, so they mess up, which is an unintended feature, or a malfunction. "Glitch: a sudden, usually temporary malfunction or irregularity of equipment." In fact, you already said it for me:

They are working as intended. It just so happens that as intended is not 100% realistic. Like how the crowd in the Punch-Out stage looks all polygonal. Rosalina's dress physics not being perfect is not a glitch (I already disclosed how that was a mistake on my part, I was not thinking straight regarding that). It's management of resources (that being said, it's pretty impressive that it's even as good as it is).

Also, after doing a bit more reading myself earlier today, I can see how Mario Kart is canon (though I was not referring to the one in Doulble Dash, I was referring to the actual "Luigi's Mansion" course on the DS), though I still don't see how it's relevant to anything here, as Rosalina having a universe beneath her gown is an explanation that we were specifically given. In Mario Kart, it's the way it is because they were not intending for us to see it anyway, just like in every other game pre-Smash. It looks like the bottom of a cheap McDonalds toy, if the toy was of a character with a dress, and there is no way it actually is the "canon" way for it to look, since it's a complete immersion breaker and is not even how a normal dress should look, while the "cosmos beneath her gown" is based off of official statements and something much more deliberate, and was done as it's perfectly feasible a god-like character like Rosalina would have that going on.

I'm getting quite bored of this thread myself at this point, as it's just going in circles. I don't see why anyone is trying to nitpick the assertion that Rosalina has a universe up there, since it was officially stated to be like that. It's ridiculous, but it's Rosalina we are talking about. It's also a Nintendo character we are talking about.

I'm just gonna unwatch this, because I have a busy week ahead and I don't want to be distracted. I've said my piece on Rosalina, and I know there are plenty of people who agree with me (and did before I even brought anything up). So yeah, that's not gonna change, I think she's strongest. Feel free to disagree, but no amount of further nitpicking or misinterpretations is going to change my view on that.

I'll probably come back some other time though. I'd like to talk about Yoshi sometime.

 

[Munomario777]

They are working as intended. It just so happens that as intended is not 100% realistic. Like how the crowd in the Punch-Out stage looks all polygonal. Rosalina's dress physics not being perfect is not a glitch (I already disclosed how that was a mistake on my part, I was not thinking straight regarding that). It's management of resources (that being said, it's pretty impressive that it's even as good as it is).

Also, after doing a bit more reading myself earlier today, I can see how Mario Kart is canon (though I was not referring to the one in Doulble Dash, I was referring to the actual "Luigi's Mansion" course on the DS), though I still don't see how it's relevant to anything here, as Rosalina having a universe beneath her gown is an explanation that we were specifically given. In Mario Kart, it's the way it is because they were not intending for us to see it anyway, just like in every other game pre-Smash. It looks like the bottom of a cheap McDonalds toy, if the toy was of a character with a dress, and there is no way it actually is the "canon" way for it to look, since it's a complete immersion breaker and is not even how a normal dress should look, while the "cosmos beneath her gown" is based off of official statements and something much more deliberate, and was done as it's perfectly feasible a god-like character like Rosalina would have that going on.

I'm getting quite bored of this thread myself at this point, as it's just going in circles. I don't see why anyone is trying to nitpick the assertion that Rosalina has a universe up there, since it was officially stated to be like that. It's ridiculous, but it's Rosalina we are talking about. It's also a Nintendo character we are talking about.

I'm just gonna unwatch this, because I have a busy week ahead and I don't want to be distracted. I've said my piece on Rosalina, and I know there are plenty of people who agree with me (and did before I even brought anything up). So yeah, that's not gonna change, I think she's strongest. Feel free to disagree, but no amount of further nitpicking or misinterpretations is going to change my view on that.

I'll probably come back some other time though. I'd like to talk about Yoshi sometime.

Okay, seeya later! I agree that is the most powerful one here currently, probably followed by . Can't wait to hear what you have to say about

EDIT: But that thing is still a glitch, since I don't think they meant for you to screw with the dress physics to reveal her legs being detached from her body like that. The Punch-Out!! crowd is different, since that's mainly to save processing power. The dress physics doing that doesn't save resources; it's a result of the lack of resources to fix that particular problem. (I haven't found an image/video of that bug, by the way; do you have a source? Unless you posted it earlier and it just didn't load for me for some reason.) But yeah, there's probably a portal/universe in there.

(Also, that thread I made earlier is still open for submissions if you wanna check that out! </shamelessplug>)

 

[ChikoLad]

EDIT: But that thing is still a glitch, since I don't think they meant for you to screw with the dress physics to reveal her legs being detached from her body like that.

It's not so much something you can intentionally re-create, it's just a random occurrence since cloth physics are dynamic.
Here's an example of it in the Smash Direct (it doesn't happen nearly as easily in the final game, though. In this build, it happened any time she used N-air):

It's not considered a glitch because cloth physics, in most games, are never perfect. 100% realistic cloth physics require you to spend a lot of time on that one aspect, and I can only think of two examples of perfect cloth physics in gaming. I know this because I've actually worked with cloth physics, and I know the values involved. Stuff like the weight of the cloth, it's "wrap" value, how many breaks it has, etc. It takes way more work than it's worth to make it 100% realistic, so developers often leave it imperfect on purpose, especially in a game like Smash where most people won't look out for it that often.

In the final build of Smash Wii U, Rosalina's cloth physics are really good, but occasionally, it can curl up after a really fast fall or something, giving you an opportunity to see her legs when you pause. It's not glitch, as it's working as intended. But they probably should have just made Rosalina's visible legs longer, and have the fade start up higher.

Either way, they did succeed with their desired effect and it holds up 99.9% of the time - Rosalina's legs will be inside the cosmos beneath her gown, fading into them.

 

[Crystanium]

So, I suppose I won't be replying to sonicbrawler's last post. I'll try to find the argument he presented in previous pages because I'm sure he wouldn't want to post it up again after having done so twice, at least. Perhaps I'll form some arguments in syllogisms, but thank you for presenting a lot of information, sonicbrawler.

For now, I cannot say I see Rosalina as a goddess. Probably a mystical being or guardian, but that's about it. (She had two parents.) I'm going to focus mostly on who Samus can kill in the roster.

 

[ChikoLad]

So, I suppose I won't be replying to sonicbrawler's last post. I'll try to find the argument he presented in previous pages because I'm sure he wouldn't want to post it up again after having done so twice, at least. Perhaps I'll form some arguments in syllogisms, but thank you for presenting a lot of information, sonicbrawler.

For now, I cannot say I see Rosalina as a goddess. Probably a mystical being or guardian, but that's about it. (She had two parents.) I'm going to focus mostly on who Samus can kill in the roster.

FYI, I never said Rosalina is a goddess. Outright said otherwise.

God and Goddess are just titles, and don't necessarily equate to great power in all cases (e.g. Cosmos in Dissidia: Final Fantasy).

However, Rosalina's role is effectively one I would expect from a god (running the universe, more or less), and she has amazing power to carry it out. Despite Palutena being a goddess by title, I feel Rosalina is way more powerful (even just their roles says it all - Palutena watches over one planet and is concerned with humans. While Rosalina takes in Lumas, she guards the universe and still watches over everyone - including us, according to the 120 Star ending).

Her having had parents is kind of irrelevant to it all, especially since many deities in many mythological tales had parents (e.g. the Titan Cronus was the father of Zeus, a god, in Greek mythology).

 

[Crystanium]

FYI, I never said Rosalina is a goddess. Outright said otherwise.

God and Goddess are just titles, and don't necessarily equate to great power in all cases (e.g. Cosmos in Dissidia: Final Fantasy).

However, Rosalina's role is effectively one I would expect from a god (running the universe, more or less), and she has amazing power to carry it out. Despite Palutena being a goddess by title, I feel Rosalina is way more powerful (even just their roles says it all - Palutena watches over one planet and is concerned with humans. While Rosalina takes in Lumas, she guards the universe and still watches over everyone - including us, according to the 120 Star ending).

Her having had parents is kind of irrelevant to it all, especially since many deities in many mythological tales had parents (e.g. the Titan Cronus was the father of Zeus, a god, in Greek mythology).

Ah, all right. I thought you said she was. I know you said she is a mother figure. I take gods and goddesses as titles, even though in the past, they might have had a different meaning and weren't just titles. For example, Semites took names to have more meaning than just a title. It determined pretty much how your life was going to play out, your personality, and names had authority.

I know Rosalina has abilities your average human doesn't possess, but so do a lot of characters in the Marioverse. I will try to consider more things about Rosalina, though.

 

[ChikoLad]

Ah, all right. I thought you said she was. I know you said she is a mother figure. I take gods and goddesses as titles, even though in the past, they might have had a different meaning and weren't just titles. For example, Semites took names to have more meaning than just a title. It determined pretty much how your life was going to play out, your personality, and names had authority.

I know Rosalina has abilities your average human doesn't possess, but so do a lot of characters in the Marioverse. I will try to consider more things about Rosalina, though.

Of course, there are lots of powerful characters in Mario. Mario himself being one of them. Rosalina just seems special though, being the "god-figure" of the main series. The characters don't call her one, and she doesn't call herself one, though she is somewhat modest and mild-mannered, so maybe that's why she doesn't adopt the title. It is worth noting that some promotional material for Smash in Japan made appropriate match-ups and rivalries for characters in the game, based on certain themes, like Mario VS Sonic VS Mega Man VS Pac-Man (the obvious theme being "The Giants of Gaming"), and was meant to promote the Conquest Mode in Smash 4, I believe (since that mode does the exact same thing). One of the many match-ups was Palutena VS Rosalina - and the only logic I can think of for that rivalry is "the Nintendo Goddesses/Deities".

And just looking at things from a battle scenario, she just seems like she has everything covered, and has no real weakness (especially since Lumas would be involved). For example, I will not deny that Samus is incredibly powerful, but pretty much all of her projectiles would be even more useless against Rosalina than they are in Smash 4, since Smash 4 greatly neuters Rosalina's ability to control gravity (though Sakurai states that the reason she is a lightweight in Smash is because she is constantly casting an anti-gravity effect on herself, as if to make things easier for her opponents). And while Samus is incredibly fast, Rosalina can straight up warp outside of a planet, and casually does so to celebrate getting a birdie in golf.

That's kinda why I don't like talking about Rosalina in this manner - I know how powerful she is, but there are people who don't think about it.

Though to make an interesting proposal - in Smash Wii U, there is an Event that might be trying to suggest Rosalina is an alien:

It might be referring to Luma, or it could even just be a silly mistake on Samus' part, or simply her way of identifying beings with mysterious power (a lot of these Events are silly in their set up, for the sake of comedy). But I still thought I'd mention it, as people might take interest in it.

 

[Lukingordex]

Your guys talk and talk, but in the end Jigglypuff is still the best.

 

[Etc_Guy]

Of course, there are lots of powerful characters in Mario. Mario himself being one of them. Rosalina just seems special though, being the "god-figure" of the main series. The characters don't call her one, and she doesn't call herself one, though she is somewhat modest and mild-mannered, so maybe that's why she doesn't adopt the title. It is worth noting that some promotional material for Smash in Japan made appropriate match-ups and rivalries for characters in the game, based on certain themes, like Mario VS Sonic VS Mega Man VS Pac-Man (the obvious theme being "The Giants of Gaming"), and was meant to promote the Conquest Mode in Smash 4, I believe (since that mode does the exact same thing). One of the many match-ups was Palutena VS Rosalina - and the only logic I can think of for that rivalry is "the Nintendo Goddesses/Deities".

And just looking at things from a battle scenario, she just seems like she has everything covered, and has no real weakness (especially since Lumas would be involved). For example, I will not deny that Samus is incredibly powerful, but pretty much all of her projectiles would be even more useless against Rosalina than they are in Smash 4, since Smash 4 greatly neuters Rosalina's ability to control gravity (though Sakurai states that the reason she is a lightweight in Smash is because she is constantly casting an anti-gravity effect on herself, as if to make things easier for her opponents). And while Samus is incredibly fast, Rosalina can straight up warp outside of a planet, and casually does so to celebrate getting a birdie in golf.

That's kinda why I don't like talking about Rosalina in this manner - I know how powerful she is, but there are people who don't think about it.

Though to make an interesting proposal - in Smash Wii U, there is an Event that might be trying to suggest Rosalina is an alien:

It might be referring to Luma, or it could even just be a silly mistake on Samus' part, or simply her way of identifying beings with mysterious power (a lot of these Events are silly in their set up, for the sake of comedy). But I still thought I'd mention it, as people might take interest in it.

I have a question. Does have anything going for her other than, most unique non-canon smash move-set? Most canon MS would be easily. Villains she defeated was .... once........ after you beat him. No weaknesses since she's a mom of luums basically. boring. So is there anything worth the time to say about her instead of being "powerful." Going on an adventure with and friends isn't too impressive since even Nabbit the Bandit Rabbit went with in a game that is hard like Lost Levels with 100 seconds on the clock.

 

[ChikoLad]

I have a question. Does have anything going for her other than, most unique non-canon smash move-set? Most canon MS would be easily. Villains she defeated was .... once........ after you beat him. No weaknesses since she's a mom of luums basically. boring. So is there anything worth the time to say about her instead of being "powerful." Going on an adventure with and friends isn't too impressive since even Nabbit the Bandit Rabbit went with in a game that is hard like Lost Levels with 100 seconds on the clock.

There is a reason I ignore your posts.

You bring up the most random lines of logic ever.

If we are going by the logic of "interesting things" a character has (not that it means anything in relation to her power), Rosalina is still leagues more "powerful" than the other Mario characters in that context. She's the only one with an actually detailed backstory (a pretty dark and depressing one, that is extremely thought provoking, at that) and it happens to be considered a powerful story by many in terms of the feelings it evokes in the reader.

 

[Defile]

I must be the hundredth person to say this, but it's obviously Ganondorf. His powers are literally God-like. Unless you use the Master Sword, Ganon has infinite stocks. Also, Ganon can turn into a giant pig so his matchups against vegans are around 9:1.

 

[Munomario777]

It's not so much something you can intentionally re-create, it's just a random occurrence since cloth physics are dynamic.
Here's an example of it in the Smash Direct (it doesn't happen nearly as easily in the final game, though. In this build, it happened any time she used N-air):

It's not considered a glitch because cloth physics, in most games, are never perfect. 100% realistic cloth physics require you to spend a lot of time on that one aspect, and I can only think of two examples of perfect cloth physics in gaming. I know this because I've actually worked with cloth physics, and I know the values involved. Stuff like the weight of the cloth, it's "wrap" value, how many breaks it has, etc. It takes way more work than it's worth to make it 100% realistic, so developers often leave it imperfect on purpose, especially in a game like Smash where most people won't look out for it that often.

In the final build of Smash Wii U, Rosalina's cloth physics are really good, but occasionally, it can curl up after a really fast fall or something, giving you an opportunity to see her legs when you pause. It's not glitch, as it's working as intended. But they probably should have just made Rosalina's visible legs longer, and have the fade start up higher.

Either way, they did succeed with their desired effect and it holds up 99.9% of the time - Rosalina's legs will be inside the cosmos beneath her gown, fading into them.

Wow, that's weird looking.

Just because it happens often doesn't mean it's not a glitch. Clipping through solid objects happens in many titles, and it's considered a glitch. Just because it's hard to get rid of doesn't mean it's not a glitch. I have serious trouble believing that the developers intended... that thing to happen. Minor glitches happen all the time in games (in Mario Kart 8, for example, characters riding karts have their feet clip through the vehicles often. That's still a glitch; it's not supposed to clip through like that. An extremely minor glitch, but a glitch nonetheless. Just because they didn't bother fixing it/didn't have time to perfect it doesn't mean it's intentional. Plus, it goes against Rosalina's portrayal in Mario Kart 8, when she's riding a bike/ATV, where her legs are clearly attached to the rest of her body.

This reminds me of the shopkeepers of OoT (I might have brought them up before), where they're normally behind the desk, but using a glitch, you can pick them up and reveal their lack of legs. This is basically the same thing, except it happens randomly and it's only half of the legs that are gone.

 

[ChikoLad]

Wow, that's weird looking.

Just because it happens often doesn't mean it's not a glitch. Clipping through solid objects happens in many titles, and it's considered a glitch. Just because it's hard to get rid of doesn't mean it's not a glitch. I have serious trouble believing that the developers intended... that thing to happen. Minor glitches happen all the time in games (in Mario Kart 8, for example, characters riding karts have their feet clip through the vehicles often. That's still a glitch; it's not supposed to clip through like that. An extremely minor glitch, but a glitch nonetheless. Just because they didn't bother fixing it/didn't have time to perfect it doesn't mean it's intentional. Plus, it goes against Rosalina's portrayal in Mario Kart 8, when she's riding a bike/ATV, where her legs are clearly attached to the rest of her body.

This reminds me of the shopkeepers of OoT (I might have brought them up before), where they're normally behind the desk, but using a glitch, you can pick them up and reveal their lack of legs. This is basically the same thing, except it happens randomly and it's only half of the legs that are gone.

It doesn't happen that badly in the final game.

And no, it's not a glitch. It's just a fact that not every game in this day and age can or is even aiming to have cloth physics as amazing as those found in Journey (PS3 title).

 

[Etc_Guy]

Your guys talk and talk, but in the end Jigglypuff is still the best.

Forgot to post this but yes.... for most powerful.

 

[Munomario777]

It doesn't happen that badly in the final game.

And no, it's not a glitch. It's just a fact that not every game in this day and age can or is even aiming to have cloth physics as amazing as those found in Journey (PS3 title).

I'm aware of that (thank goodness).

It's an unintended result; a malfunction. It's a glitch. If they're aiming to have Journey cloth physics and that happens instead, then that's not their intention. It's a glitch.

"Texture/model glitches are a kind of bug or other error that causes any specific model or texture to either become distorted or otherwise to not look as intended by the developers."
- Distorted, check.
- Not intended, check.
It's a glitch.

 

[Magikarpow]

Mr. Game and Watch.

In his best-selling game Ball Mr. Game and Watch juggles balls of pure iron.

Probably.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm aware of that (thank goodness).

It's an unintended result; a malfunction. It's a glitch. If they're aiming to have Journey cloth physics and that happens instead, then that's not their intention. It's a glitch.

"Texture/model glitches are a kind of bug or other error that causes any specific model or texture to either become distorted or otherwise to not look as intended by the developers."
- Distorted, check.
- Not intended, check.
It's a glitch.

But I was saying that they were NOT intending to get something as realistic as that. It's downright impossible.

This is much more a graphical limitation (I.e. the dress physics not being perfect).

 

[yurikos]

I think there was a discussion of weaknesses with 's Monado Shield? I haven't been keeping up with the thread and I'm not really good with science, but here's my take on it.

The light source for Shulk's world is essentially a giant ball of ether. His "sun" does not travel across the sky like ours. It is in a fixed location (as shown by Xenoblade's magnificent title screen) where it lights up and goes out on a daily basis. It's unclear whether his properties of light are exactly the same as ours.

Monado Shield notably cannot block ether attacks. However, that is only one Art (also Monado Armour exists). A defined trait of Shulk's is the ability to create and alter Arts according to what he feels is necessary. For example, Telethia initially could not be defeated with former tactics due to its mind-reading. He created Monado Purge to dull its senses, which countered that weakness. Speed and Shield were also notably made to deal with their respective situations.

This is reflected in Smash. The original Shield was just a shield around the target, but here it increases his weight. The original Buster was an extended laser sword which dealt AOE damage (also note what Zanza says), but here it is a damage buff. Jump and Smash Arts are entirely new moves. It is safe to assume that he himself changed old Arts and created new ones specifically for Smash in mind, because the Monado bends to his will and has that ability.

Where I tried to go with this, is that it's kind of unknown if a wave beam can work on an ether-based Shield. And even if Shield currently cannot block it - a series of events would happen:
1. Shulk foresees the wave beam
2. Dodges (possibly with speed) or attacks before it can be fired
2. Adds property to Shield or a new move that could counter it
or:
1. Shulk does not get a vision, is hit by the wave beam through Shield
2. Adds property to Shield or a new move that could counter it

This all refers to what base Shulk can do, not godmode Shulk (who could probably just screw around with the laws of physics if he wanted to).

i'll go back to lurking now, sorry

 

[Munomario777]

But I was saying that they were NOT intending to get something as realistic as that. It's downright impossible.

This is much more a graphical limitation (I.e. the dress physics not being perfect).

Yes, the graphical limitation/imperfection results in a glitch, like the physics in other games result in clipping and other such glitches. This isn't as major, of course, but it's still a glitch regardless.

 

[ChikoLad]

Yes, the graphical limitation/imperfection results in a glitch, like the physics in other games result in clipping and other such glitches. This isn't as major, of course, but it's still a glitch regardless.

No it isn't, because the dress physics work exactly as programmed. That programming just isn't as dynamic or elaborate as something like Journey, because it absolutely cannot be that way. The developers know this.

Rosalina having half legs is also blatantly intentional due to the fade effect.

 

[Munomario777]

No it isn't, because the dress physics work exactly as programmed. That programming just isn't as dynamic or elaborate as something like Journey, because it absolutely cannot be that way. The developers know this.

Rosalina having half legs is also blatantly intentional due to the fade effect.

A glitch isn't something not following programming; that's called "free will"/"the apocalypse"/what have you. A glitch is something not being programmed right in the first place.

It's intentional for the model to be like that because you're not meant to see them beyond that point, sort of like Rosalina's white dress thing in Mario Kart, or lack of anything in Galaxy.

 

[ChikoLad]

A glitch isn't something not following programming; that's called "free will"/"the apocalypse"/what have you. A glitch is something not being programmed right in the first place.

It's intentional for the model to be like that because you're not meant to see them beyond that point, sort of like Rosalina's white dress thing in Mario Kart, or lack of anything in Galaxy.

You are supposed to see the model up to that point. That's why the fade effect, and the cosmos, are there to begin with in this game. It's the first game she's been in where you can easily see up her dress on a regular basis.

Literally all you have to do is look under any of her trophies, or use the pause camera. You don't have to use any exploits.

(The joke is that Master Hand and Crazy Hand found lovers - Master Foot and Crazy Foot, shuuuush)

 

[Munomario777]

You are supposed to see the model up to that point. That's why the fade effect, and the cosmos, are there to begin with in this game. It's the first game she's been in where you can easily see up her dress on a regular basis.

Literally all you have to do is look under any of her trophies, or use the pause camera. You don't have to use any exploits.

(The joke is that Master Hand and Crazy Hand found lovers - Master Foot and Crazy Foot, shuuuush)

That's... disturbing. I said that you weren't supposed to see beyond that point, which you just implied by saying you're supposed to see up to it.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop posting for the night.

 

[Etc_Guy]

No it isn't, because the dress physics work exactly as programmed. That programming just isn't as dynamic or elaborate as something like Journey, because it absolutely cannot be that way. The developers know this.

Rosalina having half legs is also blatantly intentional due to the fade effect.

A glitch isn't something not following programming; that's called "free will"/"the apocalypse"/what have you. A glitch is something not being programmed right in the first place.

It's intentional for the model to be like that because you're not meant to see them beyond that point, sort of like Rosalina's white dress thing in Mario Kart, or lack of anything in Galaxy.

Can you two stop talking about a glitches! This is nonsense for strength or power.

for most wonderful.

That's... disturbing. I said that you weren't supposed to see beyond that point, which you just implied by saying you're supposed to see up to it.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop posting for the night.

Maybe this glitchy thing will die down now....

 

[ChikoLad]

That's... disturbing. I said that you weren't supposed to see beyond that point, which you just implied by saying you're supposed to see up to it.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop posting for the night.

I meant up past it. You're supposed to be able to see her half legs normally. That's why the fade effect is there. Her legs are fading into whatever universe is there.

Because science.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Meh. Rosalina suffers the same fate as this thing in regards to how the lower body works.

 

[Crystanium]

Of course, there are lots of powerful characters in Mario. Mario himself being one of them. Rosalina just seems special though, being the "god-figure" of the main series. The characters don't call her one, and she doesn't call herself one, though she is somewhat modest and mild-mannered, so maybe that's why she doesn't adopt the title.

Then it's best not to refer to her as a goddess or "god-figure". It seems if such were the case, we would expect that word used at least once with respect to Rosalina. Even if she or Mario and his gang don't refer to her as such, Nintendo wouldn't be afraid to make it clear. There are the fire and thunder gods in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. I don't think Nintendo would shy away from this, especially with Shigeru Miyamoto being involved. He's made goddesses in the Zelda series and doesn't withhold the fact that Hylia is a goddess.

It is worth noting that some promotional material for Smash in Japan made appropriate match-ups and rivalries for characters in the game, based on certain themes, like Mario VS Sonic VS Mega Man VS Pac-Man (the obvious theme being "The Giants of Gaming"), and was meant to promote the Conquest Mode in Smash 4, I believe (since that mode does the exact same thing). One of the many match-ups was Palutena VS Rosalina - and the only logic I can think of for that rivalry is "the Nintendo Goddesses/Deities".

We know Mario vs. Sonic is a long time rivalry. I would never expect Pac-Man and Mega Man to fight each other, as I fail to see the connection between the two. Mega Man and Pac-Man don't seem to be the giants of gaming to me. Samus vs. Mega Man would make more sense in my opinion, considering both are equipped with arm cannons and their release dates are close. They could have used Zelda vs. Rosalina,

Spoiler

since Zelda is the goddess Hylia

.

For example, I will not deny that Samus is incredibly powerful, but pretty much all of her projectiles would be even more useless against Rosalina than they are in Smash 4, since Smash 4 greatly neuters Rosalina's ability to control gravity (though Sakurai states that the reason she is a lightweight in Smash is because she is constantly casting an anti-gravity effect on herself, as if to make things easier for her opponents).

You're going to need to work with more than Rosalina's control over gravity. Samus' Gravity Suit protects her from extreme gravity (according to MOM) and even under gravity, Samus is not greatly hindered. Her beams are also not affected by Nightmare's gravity manipulation, except when Nightmare creates some sort of black hole that sucks in all of Samus' beam attacks.

And while Samus is incredibly fast, Rosalina can straight up warp outside of a planet, and casually does so to celebrate getting a birdie in golf.

I don't take Mario Golf to be canon. Unless I missed something, all right. The problem is, is Rosalina's reaction time. If my calculation about the power bomb is correct, then it is traveling 20 times faster than sound, so even teleporting wouldn't be useful if Rosalina cannot react fast enough. But this is assuming Rosalina can teleport to begin with in her original source material.

Though to make an interesting proposal - in Smash Wii U, there is an Event that might be trying to suggest Rosalina is an alien:

It might be referring to Luma, or it could even just be a silly mistake on Samus' part, or simply her way of identifying beings with mysterious power (a lot of these Events are silly in their set up, for the sake of comedy). But I still thought I'd mention it, as people might take interest in it.

It is interesting, but anything not from Earth would be considered an alien. Humans would be aliens to the Chozo and Space Pirates, for example, and vice versa. I wish more was clear about Rosalina, though.

 

[ChikoLad]

Then it's best not to refer to her as a goddess or "god-figure". It seems if such were the case, we would expect that word used at least once with respect to Rosalina. Even if she or Mario and his gang don't refer to her as such, Nintendo wouldn't be afraid to make it clear. There are the fire and thunder gods in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. I don't think Nintendo would shy away from this, especially with Shigeru Miyamoto being involved. He's made goddesses in the Zelda series and doesn't withhold the fact that Hylia is a goddess.



We know Mario vs. Sonic is a long time rivalry. I would never expect Pac-Man and Mega Man to fight each other, as I fail to see the connection between the two. Mega Man and Pac-Man don't seem to be the giants of gaming to me. Samus vs. Mega Man would make more sense in my opinion, considering both are equipped with arm cannons and their release dates are close. They could have used Zelda vs. Rosalina,

Spoiler

since Zelda is the goddess Hylia

.



You're going to need to work with more than Rosalina's control over gravity. Samus' Gravity Suit protects her from extreme gravity (according to MOM) and even under gravity, Samus is not greatly hindered. Her beams are also not affected by Nightmare's gravity manipulation, except when Nightmare creates some sort of black hole that sucks in all of Samus' beam attacks.



I don't take Mario Golf to be canon. Unless I missed something, all right. The problem is, is Rosalina's reaction time. If my calculation about the power bomb is correct, then it is traveling 20 times faster than sound, so even teleporting wouldn't be useful if Rosalina cannot react fast enough. But this is assuming Rosalina can teleport to begin with in her original source material.



It is interesting, but anything not from Earth would be considered an alien. Humans would be aliens to the Chozo and Space Pirates, for example, and vice versa. I wish more was clear about Rosalina, though.

When I call her "god-like", I refer to her power and role. I mean, it seems to surpass a known goddess (Palutena), so I don't think there is anything wrong with using the term descriptively. Plus, when it comes to Rosalina, Miyamoto did have a huge bias against her, so I wouldn't be surprised if he actively went against her being outright calling her a goddess, so it didn't feel like she was surpassing his characters in importance (Miyamoto did not create Rosalina).

I would never expect Pac-Man and Mega Man to fight each other, as I fail to see the connection between the two.
Mega Man and Pac-Man don't seem to be the giants of gaming to me.

In Street Fighter X Tekken, Mega Man and Pac-Man are DLC characters and are rivals under the game's rival system, so this is hardly news that they are rivals.

Pac-Man is literally the most recognisable game character in the world. For context, Sonic the Hedgehog is considered more recognisable than Mickey Mouse (and has been for a few years at this point). So if Sonic is more recognisable than Mickey Mouse, and Pac-Man is more recognisable than any other game character, that kind of makes him a huge deal in the gaming industry. The original Pac-Man also holds the record for the Most Successful Coin-Operated Video Game in the world.

Mega Man is simply a huge icon of the NES era, to the point where many people even mistake him for being owned by Nintendo, and he's pretty much the main game many of these indie "NES style platformers" like Shovel Knight take their inspiration from in terms of, well, every aspect of the game.

Out of the big four in this game, the only pair that haven't crossed paths officially before Smash 4 are Mario and Mega Man, to my knowledge:

Mario and Sonic: The Olympic Games series and Brawl
Mario and Pac-Man: Mario Kart Arcade GP
Sonic and Mega Man: The "Worlds Collide: Sonic & Mega Man" comic series by Archie Comics (which is getting a sequel called "Worlds Unite" next year, which is bringing the Sonic Boom and Mega Man X characters into the fray as well as the regular Sonic and Mega Man characters).
Sonic and Pac-Man: Both are featured in Wreck-It Ralph, and both attend Fix-It Felix's anniversary in the movie.
Mega Man and Pac-Man: Are rivals in Street Fighter X Tekken

Also I believe there was a Samus VS Mega Man match up too.

But the Rosalina VS Palutena match up made sense since the fandom views both as goddesses, and they are commonly paired off against each other as if they would have a rivalry because of that. While Zelda could technically makes sense, she is much more well known as "Princess Zelda" than you-know-what.

You're going to need to work with more than Rosalina's control over gravity. Samus' Gravity Suit protects her from extreme gravity (according to MOM) and even under gravity, Samus is not greatly hindered. Her beams are also not affected by Nightmare's gravity manipulation, except when Nightmare creates some sort of black hole that sucks in all of Samus' beam attacks.

But does it protect her from zero gravity, which is also achievable for Rosalina? That would greatly hinder Samus' mobility no matter how you swing it.

And of course there is more to Rosalina than control over gravity as I previously descried many times, I was just giving one example of an ability that greatly hinders pretty much every projectile ever, among other things (in Smash, the only projectiles Rosalina cannot manipulate are ones related to Final Smash attacks, for obvious game balance reasons, so even there they imply she can manipulate pretty much anything with it).

I don't take Mario Golf to be canon. Unless I missed something, all right. The problem is, is Rosalina's reaction time. If my calculation about the power bomb is correct, then it is traveling 20 times faster than sound, so even teleporting wouldn't be useful if Rosalina cannot react fast enough. But this is assuming Rosalina can teleport to begin with in her original source material.

Mario Golf is canon, the handheld ones have a story and have even introduced new characters to the Mario franchise.
Rosalina shows off her teleportation the very first time you meet her in Galaxy, and it's even her roll animation in Smash (the only other characters who "warp" to roll in the Smash series are Mewtwo and Palutena, both characters who also have confirmed warp abilities in canon).

Her reaction time also seems fine. She has one of the best rolls and air dodges in Smash, and has a lot of moves with fast start up. And she's able to keep up with the extreme work I put her under when speed running in 3D World. Just the fact that she is a platforming player character alone means she has to have perfect reactions.

 

[Mrwhatzitooya]

Ganondorf's Triforce of Power certainly gives him an advantage.

Spoiler

Also, being an incarnation of the Demon King, Demise, also helps, since in this form he has the power to destroy all. The only reason he didn't was due to him gallantly, but foolishly, offering Link the chance to fight before he destroyed all. Nice to know villains have honour though

With power such as his, you'd think that he was the clear winner...

But I say Mario's the strongest. Why Mario, you ask? Well, this portly plumber not only has access to more powerups than any other (he can fly, he can shoot fire, he even has invincibility!), but he has also done a number of fantastical feats unmatched by any other.

Who else has beaten a giant turtle-dragon more times than you can count, was raised by dinosaurs, stopped an alien invasion, went back in time, saved the world when he was only a baby, fought with a gorilla, explored the entire inside of a giant turtle-dragon,cleaned an entire island, saved the entire universe twice, saved a kingdom in his sleep, becoming a karting and sporting champion AND stopped armageddon?

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

 

[IvanQuote]

And with that, I have a Kirby question that I don't think I've seen people talk about.

I have not completed Kirby 64, but in that game, Kirby had the ability to mix and match the copy abilities he was using. If there was nothing explicitly explaining in canon why he doesn't have that ability in other games, should it not factor in to this topic? He was able to do some really interesting stuff with that.

Yeah...no sort of explanation is given. The closest thing to that returning is the stomach power mixing in Mouse Attack, but that tends to form completely different powers with the exception of sword and bomb. According to one timeline theory, Crystal Shards takes place earlier in the Kirby timeline as in that one Kirby can only use one move per power (eg. Fire makes him dash forward whilst engulfed in flames) while in "later" games (Kirby Super Star, Wii, Triple Deluxue) he has grown more powerful to the point where he can harness more than one move per power (eg. In addition to dashing forward, fire allows him to breath a stream of fire, engulf himself in flames to damage enemies close to him, and perform what is basically a Fire Spin Dash that can climb walls if he somersaults in the air)
Then again, this is pure fanon, so who knows for sure.

Tried finding a link to that specific one but couldn't, sorry :/

Metaphysically speaking, Sakurai was probably just throwing concepts at the wall to see what stuck, but after he left Hal, the design team decided to emulate the ability system for his most popular game for most recent games, Kirby Super Star.

 

[Munomario777]

Ganondorf's Triforce of Power certainly gives him an advantage.

Spoiler

Also, being an incarnation of the Demon King, Demise, also helps, since in this form he has the power to destroy all. The only reason he didn't was due to him gallantly, but foolishly, offering Link the chance to fight before he destroyed all. Nice to know villains have honour though

With power such as his, you'd think that he was the clear winner...

But I say Mario's the strongest. Why Mario, you ask? Well, this portly plumber not only has access to more powerups than any other (he can fly, he can shoot fire, he even has invincibility!), but he has also done a number of fantastical feats unmatched by any other.

Who else has beaten a giant turtle-dragon more times than you can count, was raised by dinosaurs, stopped an alien invasion, went back in time, saved the world when he was only a baby, fought with a gorilla, explored the entire inside of a giant turtle-dragon,cleaned an entire island, saved the entire universe twice, saved a kingdom in his sleep, becoming a karting and sporting champion AND stopped armageddon?

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!

Sonic can fly, shoot wind projectiles, and has invincibility (because Super Sonic). He's beaten an army of robots more times than you can count, and he's blown up a giant Death Star... what, three times now? He was self-raised, he didn't need dinosaurs! Sonic has stopped an alien invasion with Shadow on his side (much like M&L worked together to stop the Shroobs), and if we're counting Sonic X, he defeated the Metarex singlehandedly (if the Wiki serves me correct; I haven't watched that show). He's time traveled on multiple occasions, and saved the world before he even learned to speak. He's defeated more god monsters than you can shake a chili dog at, he's saved planets, universes, and even space and time itself on multiple occasions. Sonic is a master hoverboarder, tennis player, car/plane/boat racer, swordsman, and despite popular belief, he can swim. And then you've got his spin attacks, his speed, his jumping ability, and all the rest.

Rosalina kind of trumps everyone else here though, being a deity figure and all (Shulk needed Alvin's help to do that thing at the end of Xenoblade).

 

[Etc_Guy]

Sonic can fly, shoot wind projectiles, and has invincibility (because Super Sonic). He's beaten an army of robots more times than you can count, and he's blown up a giant Death Star... what, three times now? He was self-raised, he didn't need dinosaurs! Sonic has stopped an alien invasion with Shadow on his side (much like M&L worked together to stop the Shroobs), and if we're counting Sonic X, he defeated the Metarex singlehandedly (if the Wiki serves me correct; I haven't watched that show). He's time traveled on multiple occasions, and saved the world before he even learned to speak. He's defeated more god monsters than you can shake a chili dog at, he's saved planets, universes, and even space and time itself on multiple occasions. Sonic is a master hoverboarder, tennis player, car/plane/boat racer, swordsman, and despite popular belief, he can swim. And then you've got his spin attacks, his speed, his jumping ability, and all the rest.

Rosalina kind of trumps everyone else here though, being a deity figure and all (Shulk needed Alvin's help to do that thing at the end of Xenoblade).

Mario did stop an alien invasion by himself in SML. Super Sonic stops at A tier since anyone who is greedy, has a vacuum or vacuum ability would be able to steal the Emeralds for themselves and the physically stronger ones will have some fun. The multi-colored dinos beat up Bowser when he was a baby and adult with and without Mario. I've seen kroks more evil and intelligent than those wimpy deities at the same time. The SNES had some serious Mode-7 giving them an advantage in spin-offs before Sonic would ever get one.

As for . She's lacking in almost every category. She only has the most love in Smash but were else? gotten farther with villains in two Gameboy games than Rosie will in decades. Not one animation is from a game she was in.. (except levitation but could do that when was still a new idea.) Not strong... like at all.... maybe powerful? I can't tell, her canon combat is no better than Toad's. Instant wins are for people who can't fight like things. There's also , and that has to worry about. is the so gameplay will likely be the star like it is in the Galaxy games. made so angry in her game, that the Kings of Koopas would go into space and Mario soon found out about the Lumas.... You know what happens from there.

 

[Munomario777]

Mario did stop an alien invasion by himself in SML. Super Sonic stops at A tier since anyone who is greedy, has a vacuum or vacuum ability would be able to steal the Emeralds for themselves and the physically stronger ones will have some fun. The multi-colored dinos beat up Bowser when he was a baby and adult with and without Mario. I've seen kroks more evil and intelligent than those wimpy deities at the same time. The SNES had some serious Mode-7 giving them an advantage in spin-offs before Sonic would ever get one.

As for . She's lacking in almost every category. She only has the most love in Smash but were else? gotten farther with villains in two Gameboy games than Rosie will in decades. Not one animation is from a game she was in.. (except levitation but could do that when was still a new idea.) Not strong... like at all.... maybe powerful? I can't tell, her canon combat is no better than Toad's. Instant wins are for people who can't fight like things. There's also , and that has to worry about. is the so gameplay will likely be the star like it is in the Galaxy games. made so angry in her game, that the Kings of Koopas would go into space and Mario soon found out about the Lumas.... You know what happens from there.

The Emeralds are infused into Sonic when he transforms (or sometimes sent far away for him to call them back again, depending on the game). He is literally one with the Emeralds; they can't be taken out from him. The only reason it happened in Sonic 3 was because he was being careless (same goes for the scene in Unleashed).

Rosalina is the "god" of the Mario universe (using the term "god" loosely). She literally resets the universe every 100 years, and is in charge of overseeing it. This thread is asking who is the most powerful (the OP says that Mewtwo, who relies on psychic abilities and the like, is probably in first, while Pit, who is not "buff" by any means, comes in at a close second). As for the rest of the post, I can't even understand what you're trying to say.

 

[Mrwhatzitooya]

Sonic can fly, shoot wind projectiles, and has invincibility (because Super Sonic). He's beaten an army of robots more times than you can count, and he's blown up a giant Death Star... what, three times now? He was self-raised, he didn't need dinosaurs! Sonic has stopped an alien invasion with Shadow on his side (much like M&L worked together to stop the Shroobs), and if we're counting Sonic X, he defeated the Metarex singlehandedly (if the Wiki serves me correct; I haven't watched that show). He's time traveled on multiple occasions, and saved the world before he even learned to speak. He's defeated more god monsters than you can shake a chili dog at, he's saved planets, universes, and even space and time itself on multiple occasions. Sonic is a master hoverboarder, tennis player, car/plane/boat racer, swordsman, and despite popular belief, he can swim. And then you've got his spin attacks, his speed, his jumping ability, and all the rest.

Rosalina kind of trumps everyone else here though, being a deity figure and all (Shulk needed Alvin's help to do that thing at the end of Xenoblade).

Mario is Italian. Your argument is invalid, good sir.

 

[Etc_Guy]

Mario is Italian. Your argument is invalid, good sir.

Some kind of shot mate!

 

[Mrwhatzitooya]

Some kind of shot mate!

Indeed A shot that needs no explanation!

 

[Marxally]

Meta Knig... uh oh... Kirby.