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Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

Mrwhatzitooya

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Now that I recall, Mario is also immortal. With an unlimited supply of 1-UP Mushrooms, which seem to be readily available to him, Mario is indeed unkillable. Just when you think you've beaten him, another stomp to the head tells you otherwise.
 

Munomario777

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Now that I recall, Mario is also immortal. With an unlimited supply of 1-UP Mushrooms, which seem to be readily available to him, Mario is indeed unkillable. Just when you think you've beaten him, another stomp to the head tells you otherwise.
Well, he can't carry 1-UP Mushrooms in any games but the Mario & Luigi games, and in that game, the other brother needs to be there to use it.
 

Mrwhatzitooya

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Well, he can't carry 1-UP Mushrooms in any games but the Mario & Luigi games, and in that game, the other brother needs to be there to use it.
Actually, in every other game, he still has them, and the numbers he can reach with them at a time are so high, he can easy have time to replenish them. Plus the fact that Peach can send them to him in letters shows that they must be easily accessible to Mario and other Mushroom Kingdom
Residents.
 

Munomario777

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Actually, in every other game, he still has them, and the numbers he can reach with them at a time are so high, he can easy have time to replenish them. Plus the fact that Peach can send them to him in letters shows that they must be easily accessible to Mario and other Mushroom Kingdom Residents.
Mario hasn't been shown to be able to pull a 1-UP Mushroom out of his pockets in any game, except when he's using it on a partner. Sure, 1-UP Mushrooms might be available at shops in the Mushroom Kingdom or something, but Mario can't use them at any time; whenever he touches them, he uses them (unless, again, it's a game where he uses it to revive a partner). Plus, I believe it's been agreed to previously that we're counting death as losing (so Bowser appearing even after being turned into a skeleton in a past game doesn't apply).
 

MagiusNecros

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Is it just me or is it better without sonicbrawler182 here?
Discussion is usually better when you don't have:

Dweeb A: I think this person is great. Here is why....

Dweeb B: Well this person has a counter for everything so the person you are bringing up is dumb.
 

Victor Marczyk

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Discussion is usually better when you don't have:

Dweeb A: I think this person is great. Here is why....

Dweeb B: Well this person has a counter for everything so the person you are bringing up is dumb.
Or the ones that state something that is very highly known throughout the community and expect everyone to be surprised
 

ChikoLad

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Now that I recall, Mario is also immortal. With an unlimited supply of 1-UP Mushrooms, which seem to be readily available to him, Mario is indeed unkillable. Just when you think you've beaten him, another stomp to the head tells you otherwise.
Luigi, Peach, Toad, and Rosalina can all perform the infinite 1-UP trick in 3D World too, if that's what you're getting at.

And then Rosalina has her "VIP Pass" for Luma Shops (and is seemingly immortal WITHOUT 1-UP Mushrooms).
 

MagiusNecros

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Luigi, Peach, Toad, and Rosalina can all perform the infinite 1-UP trick in 3D World too, if that's what you're getting at.

And then Rosalina has her "VIP Pass" for Luma Shops (and is seemingly immortal WITHOUT 1-UP Mushrooms).
If I plopped everyone in 3D World and gave them a jump I could give them infinite lives too. But it doesn't really mean all that much now does it.
 

Munomario777

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If I plopped everyone in 3D World and gave them a jump I could give them infinite lives too. But it doesn't really mean all that much now does it.
Pretty much. Plus, you can't perform the trick without a Koopa Troopa, so it wouldn't have any effect in this discussion (assuming there are no Koopa Troopas on the battlefield).
 

MagiusNecros

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Personally you should base the discussion on the base abilities of the characters. If you have to rely on items to buff yourself you could easily say if "insert character" got item and buffed themselves too then the playing field is even again. A perfect example is Cat Mario and Meowser. We aren't arguing who has the advantage since the game it comes from is a platformer but it just illustrates that if it works for one person it will work for everyone else too. The power up in question being a Bell that anyone can use. And in the same "battle" Meowser uses the Double Cherry powerup which does what it says.
 

Mrwhatzitooya

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Mario hasn't been shown to be able to pull a 1-UP Mushroom out of his pockets in any game, except when he's using it on a partner. Sure, 1-UP Mushrooms might be available at shops in the Mushroom Kingdom or something, but Mario can't use them at any time; whenever he touches them, he uses them (unless, again, it's a game where he uses it to revive a partner). Plus, I believe it's been agreed to previously that we're counting death as losing (so Bowser appearing even after being turned into a skeleton in a past game doesn't apply).
Umm... I think you must be forgetting the fact that as soon as Mario even collects a 1-UP, he is given an extra life. He doesn't have to use it himself, it seems to automatically kick in the moment he "dies". They're not used automatically when he gets then, unless by that you mean they add to his life count, he still is able to use it. I really don't understand your point here.

Luigi, Peach, Toad, and Rosalina can all perform the infinite 1-UP trick in 3D World too, if that's what you're getting at.

And then Rosalina has her "VIP Pass" for Luma Shops (and is seemingly immortal WITHOUT 1-UP Mushrooms).
But that's just one of Mario's many fantastic attributes. I've included the rest of what I can remember in a previous post, stopping Armageddon and all that.

As for Rosalina, she may be immortal and very powerful, she didn't seem to be able to save the universe without Mario's help, as if she could, Galaxy and Galaxy 2 would never have existed. Another damsel who required the aid of that amazing Italian :p
 

Mrwhatzitooya

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Personally you should base the discussion on the base abilities of the characters. If you have to rely on items to buff yourself you could easily say if "insert character" got item and buffed themselves too then the playing field is even again. A perfect example is Cat Mario and Meowser. We aren't arguing who has the advantage since the game it comes from is a platformer but it just illustrates that if it works for one person it will work for everyone else too. The power up in question being a Bell that anyone can use. And in the same "battle" Meowser uses the Double Cherry powerup which does what it says.
Even without power ups, Mario has still been able to pull off feats few could ever hope to achieve.
 

ChikoLad

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As for Rosalina, she may be immortal and very powerful, she didn't seem to be able to save the universe without Mario's help, as if she could, Galaxy and Galaxy 2 would never have existed. Another damsel who required the aid of that amazing Italian
Except Rosalina saved his fat ass at the end of Galaxy.

It's already been gone over that Rosalina didn't need Mario's help literally. More that Miyamoto needed his Italian baby to be the star so the game would sell, and that he wanted to hold back competent female representation in Mario (even though he failed since Rosalina still did kickass things anyway).
 

Munomario777

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Umm... I think you must be forgetting the fact that as soon as Mario even collects a 1-UP, he is given an extra life. He doesn't have to use it himself, it seems to automatically kick in the moment he "dies". They're not used automatically when he gets then, unless by that you mean they add to his life count, he still is able to use it. I really don't understand your point here.
My point is that Mario can't bring one into battle as an item, and it's been established that extra lives and the like don't apply.
Even without power ups, Mario has still been able to pull off feats few could ever hope to achieve.
Actually, quite a few characters have more to their moveset than jumping, running, ground pounding, and punching/kicking.
 

MagiusNecros

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Rosalina now has her own tier for strongest Smash Character. Make room for other discussion please. People are not going to want to discuss anything otherwise. By killing joy you kill discussion.
 

ChikoLad

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Very true. But it seems to lead back to either items, arbitrary gameplay elements from games or Rosalina.
Because every time we wrap Rosalina up, some crazy kid wants to bring up well known points about a character and say they are "amazing feats", or thinks they have some new line of logic or new point that brings down Rosalina.
 
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Etc_Guy

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Because every time we wrap Rosalina up, some crazy kid wants to bring up well known points about a character and say they are "amazing feats", or thinks they have some new line of logic or new point that brings down Rosalina.
Three words. Creepy Castle Catacombs. I haven't even played DK64 yet sounds scary and acts scary. It must be pure torture to be one of the Kasplats or Kausas who work there. Maybe the Krossbones don't kare, I hope.

Fawful's Minion sums up the place in his video:
It's Number 3.

Tell me how that is not impressive.
 
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ChikoLad

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Three words. Creepy Castle Catacombs. I haven't even played DK64 yet sounds scary and acts scary. It must be pure torture to be one of the Kasplats or Kausas who work there. Maybe the Krossbones don't kare, I hope.

Fawful's Minion sums up the place in his video:
It's Number 3.

Tell me how that is not impressive.
And what have characters that have no relevance to the Smash cast in the context of Smash, have to do with this discussion about Smash characters?
 

Munomario777

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Three words. Creepy Castle Catacombs. I haven't even played DK64 yet sounds scary and acts scary. It must be pure torture to be one of the Kasplats or Kausas who work there. Maybe the Krossbones don't kare, I hope.

Fawful's Minion sums up the place in his video:
It's Number 3.

Tell me how that is not impressive.
Okay, I'll tell you. It's more tame than a Mario ghost level, it's not the only level to have bottomless pits or anything, and it doesn't have anything to do with this discussion.
 

ChikoLad

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No kid friendly platformer will ever have a spooky level as genuinely creepy as the Tomb of the Ancients from Rayman 2 anyway. :V
 
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Etc_Guy

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Okay, I'll tell you. It's more tame than a Mario ghost level, it's not the only level to have bottomless pits or anything, and it doesn't have anything to do with this discussion.
Did you even finish number 3? I've seen plenty of Ghost House levels in Mario games and the only thing they have in common is falling to your doom. The scariest of them all is Big Boo's Mansion from SM64/DS with the unsettling music, Eye balls and piano. It never frightened me because of the weirder s*** in Super Paper Mario. Fawful even said that it is the Kongs greatest feat (for the time he said it at least,) for many reasons.

No kid friendly platformer will ever have a spooky level as genuinely creepy as the Tomb of the Ancients from Rayman 2 anyway. :V
I never seen it but to top things off ToA has the secret lum too.
 

Munomario777

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Did you even finish number 3? I've seen plenty of Ghost House levels in Mario games and the only thing they have in common is falling to your doom. The scariest of them all is Big Boo's Mansion from SM64/DS with the unsettling music, Eye balls and piano. It never frightened me because of the weirder s*** in Super Paper Mario. Fawful even said that it is the Kongs greatest feat (for the time he said it at least,) for many reasons.
Which are?
 

ChikoLad

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So yeah I'm probably not going to be participating this thread or even visiting it much from now on because life is getting stressful and my brain is getting kinda burned out from that. And I have little time to myself right now. So yeah, following up on what I said before, I will be off.
 

Mrwhatzitooya

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Except Rosalina saved his fat *** at the end of Galaxy.

It's already been gone over that Rosalina didn't need Mario's help literally. More that Miyamoto needed his Italian baby to be the star so the game would sell, and that he wanted to hold back competent female representation in Mario (even though he failed since Rosalina still did kickass things anyway).
Thing is,
as shown by Game Theorists, it's quite possible that Rosalina was originally intended to be Mario and Peach (from another time due to the whole resetting galaxy thing)'s DAUGHTER, therefore without Mario, she wouldn't even exist!

My point is that Mario can't bring one into battle as an item, and it's been established that extra lives and the like don't apply.

Actually, quite a few characters have more to their moveset than jumping, running, ground pounding, and punching/kicking.
But few of those characters can accomplish such great feats even with jumping, running , ground pounding and punching/kicking. Mario is one of the few who can get by with just these things and still kick total ass
 

ChikoLad

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as shown by Game Theorists, it's quite possible that Rosalina was originally intended to be Mario and Peach (from another time due to the whole resetting galaxy thing)'s DAUGHTER, therefore without Mario, she wouldn't even exist!
This will be my last chime in:

First off, the Game Theory episodes ended off saying Luigi would be her father, not Mario.

Secondly, the Game Theory episodes on Rosalina were terrible and full of obvious holes that I already pointed out here, so Rosalina is of no blood relation to any of the classic Mario characters (especially since Koizumi has gone on record saying outright that Peach and Rosalina were going to be related, but they scrapped the idea).
 

Mrwhatzitooya

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This will be my last chime in:

First off, the Game Theory episodes ended off saying Luigi would be her father, not Mario.

Secondly, the Game Theory episodes on Rosalina were terrible and full of obvious holes that I already pointed out here, so Rosalina is of no blood relation to any of the classic Mario characters (especially since Koizumi has gone on record saying outright that Peach and Rosalina were going to be related, but they scrapped the idea).
Well, it was not proven as one or the other. Sure, it ended suggesting Luigi, but Mario is still pretty viable.

And anyway, even without the whole blood relation thing, Mario's been able to fight and defeat beings capable of destroying universes and come out without having to even use poweups.
 

Munomario777

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But few of those characters can accomplish such great feats even with jumping, running , ground pounding and punching/kicking. Mario is one of the few who can get by with just these things and still kick total ***
Actually, a lot of characters can take advantage of those basic moves. For instance, Sonic can do more than Mario can, even if he's limited to those actions; he does them all better.
His Spin Jump attacks all angles rather than only those below him, and he can channel his speed to jump extremely far.
He runs faster, of course, and he can Boost into opponents by creating an aura around him while running.
His Stomp comes out instantly, as opposed to Mario's little flip he does. Also, he has a bouncing variation.
He punches/kicks faster, which fits with his general "speedy" nature.
Also, Samus can wall jump infinitely on a single wall. Just something that came to mind.
 

ChikoLad

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Also, Samus can wall jump infinitely on a single wall. Just something that came to mind.
Rosalina can actually do this in 3D World as well, using the Spin (something Mario couldn't do with it in Galaxy). It's difficult (though so is Samus' infinite wall jump, IMO), but still very useful.
 
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Munomario777

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Rosalina can actually do this in 3D World as well, using the Spin (something Mario couldn't do with it in Galaxy). It's difficult (though so is Samus' infinite wall jump, IMO), but still very useful.
Wait, so Rosalina can climb up as high as she wants? That's interesting. Haven't been able to find a video source, though, but I did find this for Sonic doing it in Lost World.
 

armyman12345

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Isn't R.O.B the strongest? He has no appearance in any video game except smash, but he's in real life. He could destroy a Mario disc or something, thus destroying entire worlds in mere seconds.
 
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