Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Munomario777]

Isn't R.O.B the strongest? He has no appearance in any video game except smash, but he's in real life. He could destroy a Mario disc or something, thus destroying entire worlds in mere seconds.

Could he destroy Mario himself though?

 

[armyman12345]

Mario isn't real. R.O.B is. We're only talking about canon.

 

[ChikoLad]

Wait, so Rosalina can climb up as high as she wants? That's interesting. Haven't been able to find a video source, though, but I did find this for Sonic doing it in Lost World.

I have a video of me doing the technique, just that I don't actually use it to climb up a wall infinitely:

Basically, if you recall in Galaxy, Mario's Spin would totally cancel all momentum in the air. However, Rosalina's Spin instead shifts your momentum in the direction you input. And if you input no direction, it will just cancel your momentum like in Galaxy.

However, this means that Rosalina can wall jump, spin, and then shift her momentum back towards a wall. If you time it right, you can do this forever. The timing is difficult though, and using the momentum shifting technique to perform an infinite wall jump has little practical use in the game (considering you will have already collected a ton of stuff that required you to scale walls with the Cat Suit or something before you even unlock Rosalina). It's more suited to being used in quick bursts and flying around stuff in leaps of faith, like I did above. It's incredibly versatile and is what makes her the best character in the game. I much prefer vanilla Rosalina to even using the Cat Suit because of it.

Once I get access to recording equipment and free time again, I actually might just show off how it can be used to scale walls.

 

[Munomario777]

Mario isn't real. R.O.B is. We're only talking about canon.

Yes. In Mario canon, Mario is a human being, not a piece of code on a disc. In R.O.B.'s "canon" (AKA real life), he is a plastic toy that hooks up to an NES. This thread is about taking characters from their own canon and pitting them against each other.

I have a video of me doing the technique, just that I don't actually use it to climb up a wall infinitely:

Basically, if you recall in Galaxy, Mario's Spin would totally cancel all momentum in the air. However, Rosalina's Spin instead shifts your momentum in the direction you input. And if you input no direction, it will just cancel your momentum like in Galaxy.

However, this means that Rosalina can wall jump, spin, and then shift her momentum back towards a wall. If you time it right, you can do this forever. The timing is difficult though, and using the momentum shifting technique to perform an infinite wall jump has little practical use in the game (considering you will have already collected a ton of stuff that required you to scale walls with the Cat Suit or something before you even unlock Rosalina). It's more suited to being used in quick bursts and flying around stuff in leaps of faith, like I did above. It's incredibly versatile and is what makes her the best character in the game. I much prefer vanilla Rosalina to even using the Cat Suit because of it.

Once I get access to recording equipment and free time again, I actually might just show off how it can be used to scale walls.

Wow, that's really interesting. Rosalina is really fun to play in 3D World; I'll have to try this trick out sometime!

 

[Mrwhatzitooya]

Isn't R.O.B the strongest? He has no appearance in any video game except smash, but he's in real life. He could destroy a Mario disc or something, thus destroying entire worlds in mere seconds.

Ladies and gentlemen! The true winner! xD I like the thought, and being the only real life character, I guess he truly is the strongest!

 

[ChikoLad]

By real life canon, Diddy Kong is the strongest Smash fighter right now.

 

[armyman12345]

Yes. In Mario canon, Mario is a human being, not a piece of code on a disc. In R.O.B.'s "canon" (AKA real life), he is a plastic toy that hooks up to an NES. This thread is about taking characters from their own canon and pitting them against each other.
Wow, that's really interesting. Rosalina is really fun to play in 3D World; I'll have to try this trick out sometime!

So what happens when you pit real life against fiction?

 

[Munomario777]

By real life canon, Diddy Kong is the strongest Smash fighter right now.

Well, R.O.B. is the only character that actually exists, so he's really the only contender in that discussion. Existing as a physical object > existing as a piece of coding on a disk/cartridge, even if said physical object is made of plastic.

So what happens when you pit real life against fiction?

In this case, the fictional characters beat the real life one.

 

[ChikoLad]

Well, R.O.B. is the only character that actually exists, so he's really the only contender in that discussion. Existing as a physical object > existing as a piece of coding on a disk/cartridge, even if said physical object is made of plastic.

 

[armyman12345]

But the amiibo figures aren't canon. R.O.B's canon is real life. Besides, he can actually move, albeit slowly.

 

[Munomario777]

Except the character in Smash is "Diddy Kong," not "Diddy Kong amiibo." And even if we are counting the amiibo, being an articulated, one-foot-high piece of plastic > being a few-inches-high static piece of plastic.

 

[ChikoLad]

Except the character in Smash is "Diddy Kong," not "Diddy Kong amiibo." And even if we are counting the amiibo, being an articulated, one-foot-high piece of plastic > being a few-inches-high static piece of plastic.

Also, the Amiibos literally carry the "soul" of a fighter inside of them. I think that's better than R.O.B being articulated (since the former has a gimmick that has combat in mind).

 

[armyman12345]

R.O.B is taller than most, if not all of the toys you listed. Also, where does it say that the amiibos carry the soul of the fighter? Even then, amiibos cant do anything in real life, only in the game.

 

[ChikoLad]

R.O.B is taller than most, if not all of the toys you listed. Also, where does it say that the amiibos carry the soul of the fighter? Even then, amiibos cant do anything in real life, only in the game.

R.O.B is literally the same. "Robotic Operating Buddy" - he hooks up to the NES and you play with him.

Also, since when does size matter? Nokia phones are smaller than your average smartphone, but a Nokia phone could survive the end of the world, they're that durable. Meanwhile, bendable iPhones.

 

[armyman12345]

The plastic made for R.O.B is still durable though.

 

[Munomario777]

Also, the Amiibos literally carry the "soul" of a fighter inside of them. I think that's better than R.O.B being articulated (since the former has a gimmick that has combat in mind).

Touché.

 

[Los4Muros]

I'll reply to you tomorrow, sonicbrawler. For now, everyone should observe how a Metroid fan, whose favorite fictional character is Samus Aran, is as unbiased as possible.

Unbiased as possible? A bit offensive I would say. You confirmed half of the information I wrote to be true yourself. Things I said were omitted changing the concept of what I described. And at the end I stated that she may not be the strongest, but she is being underestimated. Now I think all the details you said were great and true, even cleared some things out from what I knew, but at the same time, you just gave out proof of how powerful she is and make me consider she's even stronger that I thought.

She drops out of the Energy Controller, but that doesn't mean she has nanonsecond reaction time. For all we know, once she's reached her destination through the use of a light shaft, she's already stationary and proceeds from there. If we take just the Metroid Prime trilogy alone, all the data demonstrates that Samus does not have nanosecond reaction time.

OK, I'll admit, this is valid. She may travel at light speed but only with the Light Shaft. Never the less, the Light Suit protects her from the huge G Force and inertia she should be passing because of the speed of light.

At best, she has improved reaction time to where she can dodge bullets. Turning at the right time when using the Speed Booster would require for her to avoid crashing, so we can establish that much. Consider also the Alpha Blogg, which fires "sonic stun blasts". This would seem to at least suggest these are traveling at the speed of sound, but in water, sound travels faster than 343 m/s (768 mi/h). Though Wikipedia has no citation for seawater speed, it says it travels 1,560 m/s (3,492.94 mi/h), but in freshwater it's 1,497 m/s (3,351.88 mi/h).

Although Speed Booster does stop when crashing. It can also destroy enemies in concact with this state. Also, when mastering Shinespark, she can use it multiple times and avoid it from stopping if using it right. Since in Metroid Fusion there's a secret message where Adam (computer) states that her trick with the Shinespark was impressive, we can assume she has already mastered it. Although Zero Mission contradicts this theory since she never knew about the Shinespark until Super Metroid, yet she was able to use it in Zero Mission to get multiple items.

Sonic booms are created by Samus' speed booster, yes. Her Sunburst is probably supposed to be a miniature star based on the fact that the Light Beam's color is white (white light is approximately 5,000 K; the surface of the Sun is actually white and 5,778 K). The word "Sun" probably also suggests this as well. Perhaps the Darkburst is supposed to be a black hole, if not just a vortex of some sort, as it sends people into a dark dimension. If anything, though, the Sonic Boom is more impressive (this is what you must have meant). According to Mark Pacini, who worked on Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, the Sonic Boom "distorts time and space".

We don't need to assume that everything moving at a slower pace is just how Samus sees the world around her. It's just how the game engine works. We know from cut-scenes that Samus jumps higher, runs faster, and shoots faster. Heck, in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, an uncharged power beam in the cut-scenes knock Pirate Troopers back around 3 meters away. Bullets cannot even do that to humans. They just drop.

Still offended by that whole "unbiased as possible" comment. Right here! Right here you just described her with even things I didn't consider. So she might have the power of the sun, the power of a dark hole, mini nuke bombs and she can distort time and space. This description not only helps my debate, but it also adds proof. Is there really a Smash Bros. character capable of doing this?

Samus didn't destroy four planets. In Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, Dark Aether was destroyed because it lost all of the energy, making it unstable. Sure, Samus played a part in this, but she only set it off. The rest was just a chain reaction. In Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, Samus defeated Dark Samus after she merged with the Aurora Unit, who was connected to planet Phaaze. Again, not a direct thing, only setting the sequence. In Super Metroid, planet Zebes blew up because Mother Brain was defeated. Once again, Samus only started the sequence. Finally, in Metroid Fusion, Samus used the ship's propulsion sequence to send it to planet SR388. Samus played a direct part there, but the destruction wasn't by her own weaponry.

I wrote on the comment all this. She didn't destroy the planets with her own weapons, she did it through different reasons. Never the less, it was her fault, she, smart enough, strong enough, or lucky enough, destroyed cores, crashed stations, removed enough energy to destroy planets. She was the cause of the destruction.
In Super Metroid, there's many theories to why Zebes exploded. In Zero Mission a self destruction sequence had already been done, yet the planet didn't seem to take massive damage after the detonation. Why did it blow up this time in Super Metroid? Mother brain had nothing to do with it, unless it was because of those hyper beams she kept shooting at Samus. If we consider that a sole Hyper Beam shot hits Samus (with all three power suits) with 300 of damage, we can easily assume that the Hyper beam had something to do with the destruction of Zebes pirecing through the tunnels Tourian Brinstar and Crateria, and since Samus did in fact use it multiple times, this might just be true, yet not official. We could use Other M to see if the Hyper Beam caused any damage, but the scene from Other M has multiple mistakes. She was wearing the Varia Suit or Power Suit, she didn't have the same amount of Energy Tanks from Super Metroid, the Baby's size was Smaller, etc.

The Zero Laser has never been demonstrated in any of the Metroid games, only Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Wii U

In Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, when fighting Gandrayda, she was able to use the Zero Beam against Samus. The artstyle of the beam is extractly the same as in Brawl or Smash Bros. 4. It has never been used by Samus, but Gandrayda used it multiple times. It couldn't of been the Hyper Beam because Metroid Prime 3 takes place before Super Metroid where she got it and there's no other beam that fits the description.

The Omega Cannon is a WMD and probably the source of the gamma radiation Samus' gunship detects. Makes sense. It would be one of the more powerful weapons Samus has ever used, but I think the power bomb is the most destructive of them all.

The Hyper Beam is thought to be Samus' most powerful weapon, sure, but as for power bombs not even tickling Mother Brain, chances are it doesn't affect Mother Brain for the same reason it doesn't affect Ridley, who is vulnerable to the plasma beam. Of course, there are enemies in the Metroid series who can withstand power bombs. These are Desbrachians, who are awakened by power bombs. They retreat into their shells if Samus uses another power bomb.

There's no evidence of this. However, should Yoshio Sakamoto accept the Chozo having extended longevity (which he does), then the fact that Samus is integrated with Chozo DNA would probably mean she'll live longer than the average human.

Mother Brain's lifespan might not give Samus extra years, but she did give her the Hyper Beam. So Samus does have things she obtained from her.

The plasma beam cannot pierce any type of material. Maybe in Super Metroid. Who knows? But if the wave beam is supposed to be an actual electromagnetic wave of some sort, then objects with high density (like lead) would protect them from Samus. The plasma beam pierces enemies. The wave beam pierces most solid objects.

Sorry, I confused the beams here. Yeah, it's the Wave beam what pierces through walls. In any case, Metroid takes place in the future, and even there, the technology they hold is far complex even for them, since they can't understand Chozo technology. This is true and all, but at the same time, if Metroid has explanations that don't fit with physics, we can always justify that with our current technology is incapable of understanding their technology.

This is what further makes me suspect the wave beam is some sort of electromagnetic weapon. The Nova Beam takes the design that the Wave Beam has in Metroid Prime. The Nova Beam fires "high-frequency" beams. This is a "range of radio frequency electromagnetic waves (radio waves) between 3 and 30 MHz". (High frequency - Wikipedia)

I really enjoyed reading your post. I think that by the end, both me and you taking a second view through Samus's arsenal, we can understand that she at the very least, is top five of the strongest in Super Smash Bros. Yet I haven't read anybody's character description that might encounter all these things. Yet again, I haven't read all 76 pages XD

 

[ChikoLad]

The plastic made for R.O.B is still durable though.

If your sole logic for R.O.B being the strongest is that he has a real life incarnation that we can physically touch, it is flawed. There are tons of characters with toys and statues from Smash.

 

[armyman12345]

But the characters only real canonical appearance is in the games. R.O.B's only real appearance is IRL.

 

[ChikoLad]

But the characters only real canonical appearance is in the games. R.O.B's only real appearance is IRL.

He appeared in Mario Kart DS and F-Zero GX too.

Behold the Legend of R.O.B timeline:

 

[Munomario777]

So she might have the power of the sun, the power of a dark hole, mini nuke bombs and she can distort time and space. This description not only helps my debate, but it also adds proof. Is there really a Smash Bros. character capable of doing this?

salutes the sun
has a black hole as one of the Powers
and a lot of other characters have bombs
can use Chaos Control to distort time and space

But the characters only real canonical appearance is in the games. R.O.B's only real appearance is IRL.

Canonically, Mario appeared as the hero of the Mushroom Kingdom (in his canon). Canonically, R.O.B. appeared as a plastic toy (in his canon). Mario's canon is the Mario games; R.O.B.'s canon is real life (and/or Mario Kart DS/F-Zero GX).

 

[armyman12345]

This is one of the last things i'll say: R.O.B's appearances in video games aren't canon. But I enjoyed your timeline, regardless.

 

[MagiusNecros]

R.O.B.'s new Final Smash is a Laser Cannon though. So I say he's pretty cannon.

 

[Munomario777]

This is one of the last things i'll say: R.O.B's appearances in video games aren't canon. But I enjoyed your timeline, regardless.

As has been established before, Mario Kart is canon.

 

[Dragonhunter970]

1: Canon Wise, there is only one mew2
2: Wobuffet. I remember hearing it, I don't play Metroid.
3: Pizza
4: Anyone who is decently fast.
5: Mewtwo and Rosie Not in S tier. Wot

Canon wise you can trade mewtwo

 

[Dragonhunter970]

1: Fair enough.
2: I got nothing
3: Hot DOgs
4: Sonic could easily knock out red before he even sends out a pokemon.
5: Is rosie top of A then?

4.No, he is not even faster than eggman and metal sonic,as shown many times

 

[Munomario777]

4.No, he is not even faster than eggman and metal sonic,as shown many times

Except in those instances, he's not moving at his top speed (top speed canonically, not gameplay wise).

 

[Etc_Guy]

What kinda sick person doesn't mention the DK game when is? I also won the Creepy Castle argument since no one used an answer or came back for more.

Except in those instances, he's not moving at his top speed (top speed canonically, not gameplay wise).

Gameplay is worthless? Why give the boot?

As has been established before, Mario Kart is canon.

Exactly.

Unbiased as possible? A bit offensive I would say. You confirmed half of the information I wrote to be true yourself. Things I said were omitted changing the concept of what I described. And at the end I stated that she may not be the strongest, but she is being underestimated. Now I think all the details you said were great and true, even cleared some things out from what I knew, but at the same time, you just gave out proof of how powerful she is and make me consider she's even stronger that I thought.


OK, I'll admit, this is valid. She may travel at light speed but only with the Light Shaft. Never the less, the Light Suit protects her from the huge G Force and inertia she should be passing because of the speed of light.

Although Speed Booster does stop when crashing. It can also destroy enemies in concact with this state. Also, when mastering Shinespark, she can use it multiple times and avoid it from stopping if using it right. Since in Metroid Fusion there's a secret message where Adam (computer) states that her trick with the Shinespark was impressive, we can assume she has already mastered it. Although Zero Mission contradicts this theory since she never knew about the Shinespark until Super Metroid, yet she was able to use it in Zero Mission to get multiple items.





Still offended by that whole "unbiased as possible" comment. Right here! Right here you just described her with even things I didn't consider. So she might have the power of the sun, the power of a dark hole, mini nuke bombs and she can distort time and space. This description not only helps my debate, but it also adds proof. Is there really a Smash Bros. character capable of doing this?




I wrote on the comment all this. She didn't destroy the planets with her own weapons, she did it through different reasons. Never the less, it was her fault, she, smart enough, strong enough, or lucky enough, destroyed cores, crashed stations, removed enough energy to destroy planets. She was the cause of the destruction.
In Super Metroid, there's many theories to why Zebes exploded. In Zero Mission a self destruction sequence had already been done, yet the planet didn't seem to take massive damage after the detonation. Why did it blow up this time in Super Metroid? Mother brain had nothing to do with it, unless it was because of those hyper beams she kept shooting at Samus. If we consider that a sole Hyper Beam shot hits Samus (with all three power suits) with 300 of damage, we can easily assume that the Hyper beam had something to do with the destruction of Zebes pirecing through the tunnels Tourian Brinstar and Crateria, and since Samus did in fact use it multiple times, this might just be true, yet not official. We could use Other M to see if the Hyper Beam caused any damage, but the scene from Other M has multiple mistakes. She was wearing the Varia Suit or Power Suit, she didn't have the same amount of Energy Tanks from Super Metroid, the Baby's size was Smaller, etc.


In Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, when fighting Gandrayda, she was able to use the Zero Beam against Samus. The artstyle of the beam is extractly the same as in Brawl or Smash Bros. 4. It has never been used by Samus, but Gandrayda used it multiple times. It couldn't of been the Hyper Beam because Metroid Prime 3 takes place before Super Metroid where she got it and there's no other beam that fits the description.







Mother Brain's lifespan might not give Samus extra years, but she did give her the Hyper Beam. So Samus does have things she obtained from her.



Sorry, I confused the beams here. Yeah, it's the Wave beam what pierces through walls. In any case, Metroid takes place in the future, and even there, the technology they hold is far complex even for them, since they can't understand Chozo technology. This is true and all, but at the same time, if Metroid has explanations that don't fit with physics, we can always justify that with our current technology is incapable of understanding their technology.




I really enjoyed reading your post. I think that by the end, both me and you taking a second view through Samus's arsenal, we can understand that she at the very least, is top five of the strongest in Super Smash Bros. Yet I haven't read anybody's character description that might encounter all these things. Yet again, I haven't read all 76 pages XD

I have no answer to this since I never played Metroid.

 

[ChikoLad]

has a black hole as one of the Powers

The Powers in Uprising are actually Palutena's/Viridi's doing. In Smash, Palutena's Specials are all based off of her Powers from Uprising, with her Final Smash being the Black Hole - Mega Laser combo. So it's not an ability of Pit's, it's Palutena's.

Also, to add to people who can use Black Hole powers, Mega Man attains the Black Hole Bomb in Mega Man 9 (his Final Smash in Smash 4 also incorporates it - the big purple thing he shoots out is the Black Hole Bomb. You can even detonate it manually).

 

[Munomario777]

Gameplay is worthless? Why give the boot?

It's not worthless. I'm just saying that Sonic's gameplay speed is slower than his canonical speed, especially in the Genesis titles. Here's a good example of Sonic going quite a bit faster than he does in gameplay, from Sonic CD's opening video (skip to 1:30 or so):

Here you see him running, and then he takes off so fast that before you know it, he's just a while dot on the other end of the chain.

The Powers in Uprising are actually Palutena's/Viridi's doing. In Smash, Palutena's Specials are all based off of her Powers from Uprising, with her Final Smash being the Black Hole - Mega Laser combo. So it's not an ability of Pit's, it's Palutena's.

Also, to add to people who can use Black Hole powers, Mega Man attains the Black Hole Bomb in Mega Man 9 (his Final Smash in Smash 4 also incorporates it - the big purple thing he shoots out is the Black Hole Bomb. You can even detonate it manually).

Ah. Haven't played Uprising, my apologies. Also, good point with the Black Hole Bomb.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Acording to the Sonic Wikia " It is unknown how much faster Sonic can run beyond Mach 1, though it is on various occasions assumed that he can. In Sonic Battle, it is stated that he can move several times the speed of sound and when the Final Egg Blaster was about to fire, Sonic defeated Ultimate Emerl in less than 30 seconds. It is also believed that Sonic can move faster while in spinball form than running, possibly even reaching the speed of light as seen in Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes where he could utilize the Light Speed Attak and the Light Speed Dash to achieve light speed movements. Also, in Sonic Unleashed, the Chekpoint, which measure his speed (SPD) in-game, can clock Sonic going over 2,800 SPD; in comparison, the Light Speed Dash measures 396 SPD. This may suggest that Sonic can move at speeds far greater than the speed of light. "

So , Sonic even in his normal form can escape a black hole ?

If the last act of Sonic Colors is anything to go by, he can outrun a black hole for like... 30 seconds.

 

[Munomario777]

If the last act of Sonic Colors is anything to go by, he can outrun a black hole for like... 30 seconds.

Yeah, and that's more than enough time to teleport out with Chaos Control.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Yeah, and that's more than enough time to teleport out with Chaos Control.

Except he had no Chaos emeralds >_<

 

[Munomario777]

Except he had no Chaos emeralds >_<

It's been widely accepted in this discussion that he gets to use them. We're giving characters pretty much the best conditions from their games (maximum ammunition, all items, etc.).

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

It's been widely accepted in this discussion that he gets to use them. We're giving characters pretty much the best conditions from their games (maximum ammunition, all items, etc.).

Ahhhh ok. So he could still out run a black hole then.... noice.

 

[Los4Muros]

salutes the sun
has a black hole as one of the Powers
and a lot of other characters have bombs
can use Chaos Control to distort time and space

Canonically, Mario appeared as the hero of the Mushroom Kingdom (in his canon). Canonically, R.O.B. appeared as a plastic toy (in his canon). Mario's canon is the Mario games; R.O.B.'s canon is real life (and/or Mario Kart DS/F-Zero GX).

Bombs are not Nuke Bombs. And Saluting the sun isn't really the same as creating one. We can't really think Wii Fit Trainer can come to create suns, now can we?
But Sonic and Pit are good points.

 

[Munomario777]

Ahhhh ok. So he could still out run a black hole then.... noice.

Yes, or out-teleport, as it were.

Bombs are not Nuke Bombs. And Saluting the sun isn't really the same as creating one. We can't really think Wii Fit Trainer can come to create suns, now can we?
But Sonic and Pit are good points.

Yeah, half of those were sort of joking

 

[warionumbah2]

In that Sonic CD opening he actually breaks the sound barrier when he flies into the air after spin dashing you can tell by the ripples in the water indicating a 'Sonic Boom'.

This is the only time he's ever done it in canon.(Sonic 1 all the way to Lost Worlds). And this was when he was younger i may add.

 

[Munomario777]

In that Sonic CD opening he actually breaks the sound barrier when he flies into the air after spin dashing you can tell by the ripples in the water indicating a 'Sonic Boom'.

This is the only time he's ever done it in canon.(Sonic 1 all the way to Lost Worlds). And this was when he was younger i may add.

Yeah, Sonic is a master at using the environment to his advantage. Also, it is notable that the Boost in Sonic Generations (and possibly Colors/Unleashed; don't remember offhand) creates a ripple effect when the move is activated, possibly to represent a sonic boom.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Yeah, Sonic is a master at using the environment to his advantage. Also, it is notable that the Boost in Sonic Generations (and possibly Colors/Unleashed; don't remember offhand) creates a ripple effect when the move is activated, possibly to represent a sonic boom.

I'm Pretty sure its in Colors and Unleashed.