Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

The only problem is he can care less about god-things! because he killed two with his fist. (Not kidding.) Even if the slightest mention of them is heard he's off to take them for himself pummeling anyone in his path. If you are so reliant of some gems then if they're gone were will Sonic be? Running from a fat man to prevent being his new punching bag would count as a forfeit too.

Take away the Kong Family's guns and your still in lots of trouble. Take away Wario's hat and there is still his Safari cap. If one character only uses melee moves would be unfair. The only time it would be fair is if it's someone has a large variety of attacks. (Ex. .)

*COUGH* CHAOS CONTROL *COUGH*

 

[ChikoLad]

The Luma waves, makes a noise, spins, and launches himself into the black hole.

But it doesn't change into a planet or anything, so no sacrifice happened. Therefore, at face value, that Luma was just accepting the inevitable fate it was facing, like I pointed out earlier. It's just a tragic moment. Though it could have just as easily knew it would be OK in the next life and therefore decided to get on with things. But that still wouldn't be a sacrifice, as that would imply he accomplished something for the greater good by letting himself die. He didn't accomplish any greater good, though.

You said the ending was supposed to be tragic, and then said that Rosalina reset the universe and the Lumas were none the wiser, with no evidence to back up the claims.

Again, ignoring my evidence. I will not humour you if you keep this up. I provided plenty of evidence, you just want to push your fanons instead.

Yes, but that policy has nothing to do with Galaxy's story arc (which is one game, not multiple sources of information).

It does - they are not supposed to make baseless, fanon assumptions, even within one game. But they do.

At no point am I told that Rosalina reset the universe.

But it's heavily implied, and Dryn asked me to provide at least an implication. I followed up with multiple very solid implications.

Also, the Luma spinning and such is seen when a Hungry Luma spins around, lets out a noise, and shoots off into the distance in the same way that the Luma spins around, lets out a noise, and shoots off into the black hole, both doing this at their own will.

This is again you stretching to make one thing sound more like another, and ignoring evidence - again, Young Master Luma does not transform, or do anything for the greater good in his goodbye to Mario.

I'm taking an in-universe explanation (the universe resetting in different ways) and applying it to an in-universe question (Rosalina appearing in different ways).

Except that explanation is not in relation to this point, and that question doesn't exist. Rosalina is a minor character in Galaxy 2 because Miyamoto wanted her to be. Nothing to be questioned there. Keep in mind that this is HIM we are discussing, and that he is the epitome of a developer who feels no need to give in-universe explanations for absolutely anything. Meaning these stretches you are coming up with are not his intention at all, and are merely fanon.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I just want to say that a sacrifice doesn't always have a meaningful outcome. There's always the possibility of attempting a sacrifice and nothing can happen other then thing throwing it's life away.

 

[Munomario777]

But it doesn't change into a planet or anything, so no sacrifice happened. Therefore, at face value, that Luma was just accepting the inevitable fate it was facing, like I pointed out earlier. It's just a tragic moment. Though it could have just as easily knew it would be OK in the next life and therefore decided to get on with things. But that still wouldn't be a sacrifice, as that would imply he accomplished something for the greater good by letting himself die. He didn't accomplish any greater good, though.

He didn't change into a planet. To put it in your words, he died. I'd say dying is more of a sacrifice than turning into a planet. Also, the "greater good" was causing the universe to be reborn.

Again, ignoring my evidence. I will not humour you if you keep this up. I provided plenty of evidence, you just want to push your fanons instead.

You provided evidence, I refuted it. I treated the refuted evidence as nonexistent because you didn't try to defend it.

It does - they are not supposed to make baseless, fanon assumptions, even within one game. But they do.

It's not baseless. It's taking the Lumas sending themselves into the black hole and the black hole being overwhelmed and exploding as the Lumas causing the black hole to explode. It's using logic.

But it's heavily implied, and Dryn asked me to provide at least an implication. I followed up with multiple very solid implications.

Which I then disproved. Meanwhile, we have a clear shot of a Luma sending himself into the black hole, followed by what can be seen as a "stampede" of more Lumas into that same black hole.

This is again you stretching to make one thing sound more like another, and ignoring evidence - again, Young Master Luma does not transform, or do anything for the greater good in his goodbye to Mario.

Correct; he does all that after he says goodbye (except the transforming part; that was because Mario fed the Hungry Luma Star Bits and not "the" Luma).

Except that explanation is not in relation to this point, and that question doesn't exist. Rosalina is a minor character in Galaxy 2 because Miyamoto wanted her to be. Nothing to be questioned there. Keep in mind that this is HIM we are discussing, and that he is the epitome of a developer who feels no need to give in-universe explanations for absolutely anything. Meaning these stretches you are coming up with are not his intention at all, and are merely fanon.

Miyamoto wanting Rosalina to be a minor character isn't a thing in Mario canon; it's a developmental reason, Miyamoto being behind said development. I'm making sense of the world in Mario canon. Galaxy 2 came after Galaxy 1 (it has a "2" at the end, and it's not implied to be a prequel, so it's a relatively safe assumption to make). At the end of Galaxy 1, everything is jumbled up, and in Galaxy 2, Rosalina's role is "jumbled up." It's easy to see how the two facts would be connected.

I just want to say that a sacrifice doesn't always have a meaningful outcome. There's always the possibility of attempting a sacrifice and nothing can happen other then thing throwing it's life away.

Very true, but here it appears that the sacrifice had some sort of effect on the black hole.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Very true, but here it appears that the sacrifice had some sort of effect on the black hole.

Basically caused a chain reaction. Maybe Nuclear Fission.

 

[ChikoLad]

I just want to say that a sacrifice doesn't always have a meaningful outcome. There's always the possibility of attempting a sacrifice and nothing can happen other then thing throwing it's life away.

But they would have highlighted that if that was the case. And plus, something had to reset the universe if the "sacrifice" didn't do anything - you know, like how they imply Rosalina did when that big light appears and she comes out of it, all divine giant form and stuff?

He didn't change into a planet. To put it in your words, he died. I'd say dying is more of a sacrifice than turning into a planet. Also, the "greater good" was causing the universe to be reborn.

If you die with no attempt to achieve anything, you just die (and in this case, are given new life by your mother).

You provided evidence, I refuted it. I treated the refuted evidence as nonexistent because you didn't try to defend it.

Refuting evidence is not the same as actually properly countering it, which you have not done.

It's not baseless. It's taking the Lumas sending themselves into the black hole and the black hole being overwhelmed and exploding as the Lumas causing the black hole to explode. It's using logic.

And I have already shown you how that is FAR from logical, but you'd rather make your fanons (and even with this particular quote alone - baby stars getting sucked into a black hole = the universe is reborn, how?).

Which I then disproved. Meanwhile, we have a clear shot of a Luma sending himself into the black hole, followed by what can be seen as a "stampede" of more Lumas into that same black hole.

Or he waved good bye and got sucked in. Pretty much every inanimate object spun as it got flung into the black hole. Lumas are as light as a feather, so naturally they would too.

I'm making sense of the world in Mario canon.

Except you are not an official source and are merely twisting something with an obvious explanation into something you would rather it be. In fact, twisting the context, as I see now.

Because when I said Rosalina's "role", I meant her meta role (i.e. player character, major character, side character, cameo, etc). These are not in-universe roles, they are more the "part" being played in the comprehension of us, the audience. Like, Mario's role is the player character.

Rosalina going from major character to minor character to player character has no in-universe explanation as they are not in-universe roles. Her in-universe role is "watcher and protector of the cosmos", i.e. more or less god. That did not change between the two games. Nothing is jumbled up there. Her role as more or less god just didn't have much relevance in Galaxy 2's plot. And that's merely because Miyamoto decreed it didn't. Therefore, nothing changed about her in-universe, and this was never even attempted to be implied.

 

[Munomario777]

If you die with no attempt to achieve anything, you just die (and in this case, are given new life by your mother).

And what leads you to believe that the Lumas had no intent of acheiving anything?

Refuting evidence is not the same as actually properly countering it, which you have not done.

I provided counterarguments. You didn't counter those counterarguments.

And I have already shown you how that is FAR from logical, but you'd rather make your fanons (and even with this particular quote alone - baby stars getting sucked into a black hole = the universe is reborn, how?).

Well, Lumas causing a big bang by overloading the black hole is more logical than the big bang happening and then Rosalina coming in to cause it (her only true involvement in that scene is when she appears to Mario to explain).

Or he waved good bye and got sucked in. Pretty much every inanimate object spun as it got flung into the black hole. Lumas are as light as a feather, so naturally they would too.

Except Lumas have been shown to use this specific animation (complete with light trail) when travelling long distances. The Luma didn't spin as it was being pulled in; it spun before launching itself in.

Except you are not an official source and are merely twisting something with an obvious explanation into something you would rather it be. In fact, twisting the context, as I see now.

Because when I said Rosalina's "role", I meant her meta role (i.e. player character, major character, side character, cameo, etc). These are not in-universe roles, they are more the "part" being played in the comprehension of us, the audience. Like, Mario's role is the player character.

Rosalina going from major character to minor character to player character has no in-universe explanation as they are not in-universe roles. Her in-universe role is "watcher and protector of the cosmos", i.e. more or less god. That did not change between the two games. Nothing is jumbled up there. Her role as more or less god just didn't have much relevance in Galaxy 2's plot. And that's merely because Miyamoto decreed it didn't.

Sounds sort of like you, actually. Unofficial source twisting an obvious explanation (the Lumas sending themselves into the black hole to make it explode because of the overload) into something you would rather be (which is Rosalina being the most powerful one here, judging by your avatar and such), twisting the context as well ("Rosalina appearing after the big bang = Rosalina causing the big bang").

I meant "role" as in Rosalina helping Mario in his first adventure through space and not in his second, which is in-universe.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Sounds sort of like you, actually. Unofficial source twisting an obvious explanation (the Lumas sending themselves into the black hole to make it explode because of the overload) into something you would rather be (which is Rosalina being the most powerful one here, judging by your avatar and such), twisting the context as well ("Rosalina appearing after the big bang = Rosalina causing the big bang").

I meant "role" as in Rosalina helping Mario in his first adventure through space and not in his second, which is in-universe.

I find it disconcerting that a sacrifice has to achieve some great thing to be labeled as a sacrifice. It's quite clear that the abundance of matter including the Luma's and Planetary structures getting crushed and or devoured by essentially antimatter causes Nuclear Fission which is a very powerful chain reaction. Matter against Antimatter. And this reaction is including the abundance of Luma's that either fly in or are sucked in. I say fly in because you don't see them resisting, more like they welcome it. Bringing in Rosalina just seems like a out of context comment really. Which is why I don't really care to respond to Sonicbrawler. Since it's like arguing with a brick wall. You can say whatever you want to it but it's mind is set like some 60 year old man who is convinced the color green is just a darker shade of yellow and he don't care what you say.

 

[Munomario777]

I find it disconcerting that a sacrifice has to achieve some great thing to be labeled as a sacrifice. It's quite clear that the abundance of matter including the Luma's and Planetary structures getting crushed and or devoured by essentially antimatter causes Nuclear Fission which is a very powerful chain reaction. Matter against Antimatter. And this reaction is including the abundance of Luma's that either fly in or are sucked in. I say fly in because you don't see them resisting, more like they welcome it. Bringing in Rosalina just seems like a out of context comment really. Which is why I don't really care to respond to Sonicbrawler. Since it's like arguing with a brick wall. You can say whatever you want to it but it's mind is set like some 60 year old man who is convinced the color green is just a darker shade of yellow and he don't care what you say.

Well, it doesn't have to achieve some great purpose, but I think it's best used only when it's intended to do something else (like sacrificing something to make room for something else). The antimatter explanation is very interesting, and Rosalina's association is a bit out of context. Also, I assume you didn't mean any offense to sonicbrawler (neither do I), but I do agree he is being a bit stubborn and/or hypocritical.

 

[ChikoLad]

And what leads you to believe that the Lumas had no intent of acheiving anything?

The fact that there is nothing conclusive suggesting otherwise.

I provided counterarguments. You didn't counter those counterarguments.

If you're convinced so...

Well, Lumas causing a big bang by overloading the black hole is more logical than the big bang happening and then Rosalina coming in to cause it (her only true involvement in that scene is when she appears to Mario to explain).

Except for her appearing right out of the light that appears in the black hole and disperses it, the kind of light that already has association with her:

Even notice the little animation she's doing right at the start of that last GIF, as if she just did something involving great power.

Except Lumas have been shown to use this specific animation (complete with light trail) when travelling long distances.

Being helplessly sucked into a black hole counts as that.

Sounds sort of like you, actually. Unofficial source twisting an obvious explanation (the Lumas sending themselves into the black hole to make it explode because of the overload) into something you would rather be (which is Rosalina being the most powerful one here, judging by your avatar and such), twisting the context as well ("Rosalina appearing after the big bang = Rosalina causing the big bang").

So GIFs from the game are an unofficial source now?

Yeah I'm done with you. You care about your wild theories more than what's actually smack dab in front of you.

MatPat, should your channel fail, here's your successor.

I say fly in because you don't see them resisting, more like they welcome it.

I suggested exactly this as a possibility beforehand, except the more logical reason for them flying in is accepting the inevitable, as the one Luma everyone uses as their reference as a "sacrifice" does not sacrifice anything, merely does exactly what other characters do - get sucked into a black hole and be put into the reborn universe.

Also, I'm only being stubborn because there is no reason for me not to be - you guys have not provided anything but hypotheses. I have provided actual in-game images and pointed out what is obviously there.

Munomario said we should take things at face value. I am doing this, and it fully backs me up.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well, it doesn't have to achieve some great purpose, but I think it's best used only when it's intended to do something else (like sacrificing something to make room for something else). The antimatter explanation is very interesting, and Rosalina's association is a bit out of context. Also, I assume you didn't mean any offense to sonicbrawler (neither do I), but I do agree he is being a bit stubborn and/or hypocritical.

I'm not trying to be mean but some of the stuff Sonicbrawler says doesn't sound that convincing and just seems like a tongue twister. Either I don't understand the context or it doesn't really make sense. But the ending of SMG if we look at where Bowser was whatever Planetoid was going into the Red Giant phase. Nuclear Fission occurs and it increases it's size further but then the chain reaction reaches a breaking point and the great mass collapses in on itself causing a black hole. Then the Luma's intervene by throwing their matter at antimatter causing an even bigger reaction which with the hourglass shape the 2 opposing forces begin to meld and promptly explode. Creating what would seem to be a Big Bang or a Super Nova. Super Nova only occurs if the mass gets too big and the Planet just blows up but here it went to a Black Hole and somehow the Luma's reversed the effect. But without concisive "this happened" from Nintendo I don't think we'll get a clear answer.

Edit: Yeah one of those Gifs shows the Galaxy/Universe crunching in on itself completely before making a Big Bang. Then it immediately transitions into Rosalina. Which could imply Rosalina is the "God" of the Mario Universe but still leaves doubt that the whole Big Bang was her doing. Probably as maybe some Ultimate Guardian she resets the Cosmos to a natural state of order but doing so actually has some progression. Since things will never happen exactly the same. The whole disorder of the Cosmos could easily have come from Bowser's subjective misuse of the Power/Grand Stars. Which might be a viable answer to the malformed "Galaxies" that you play through as levels in the game.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm not trying to be mean but some of the stuff Sonicbrawler says doesn't sound that convincing and just seems like a tongue twister. Either I don't understand the context or it doesn't really make sense. But the ending of SMG if we look at where Bowser was whatever Planetoid was going into the Red Giant phase. Nuclear Fission occurs and it increases it's size further but then the chain reaction reaches a breaking point and the great mass collapses in on itself causing a black hole. Then the Luma's intervene by throwing their matter at antimatter causing an even bigger reaction which with the hourglass shape the 2 opposing forces begin to meld and promptly explode. Creating what would seem to be a Big Bang or a Super Nova. Super Nova only occurs if the mass gets too big and the Planet just blows up but here it went to a Black Hole and somehow the Luma's reversed the effect. But without concisive "this happened" from Nintendo I don't think we'll get a clear answer.

We've already disclosed how real science clearly was not a faithful reference in Galaxy. None of the planets could exist if we use real science.

It's a fantasy game, there is very little relation to real science, and what's there is reality distorted from reality.

 

[MagiusNecros]

We've already disclosed how real science clearly was not a faithful reference in Galaxy. None of the planets could exist if we use real science.

It's a fantasy game, there is very little relation to real science, and what's there is reality distorted from reality.

Don't be simple.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Ok, the sodium is really starting to build up in this thread.... is there any other character that isn't Rosalina we can talk about? Cause it seems like the more Sonicbrawler and Munomario discuss Rosalina, one or the other seems to end up getting very pissed off and no one really likes that

 

[Munomario777]

The fact that there is nothing conclusive suggesting otherwise.

So, you're using the proof by lack of evidence fallacy. Okay.

If you're convinced so...

I countered your evidence. You said I was ignoring it.

Except for her appearing right out of the light that appears in the black hole and disperses it, the kind of light that already has association with her:

Even notice the little animation she's doing right at the start of that last GIF, as if she just did something involving great power.

Yes, the same generic, white beams of light that Mario also appears out of. There's nothing special about this light (not even the beams of light seen in the first three gifs are seen in the last one). Also, raising your hands doesn't imply that you just did something of great power (and even so, it could have been bringing herself and Mario out of that light, since she returns to a normal pose after they stop moving).

Being helplessly sucked into a black hole counts as that.

Travelling as in launching themselves off into the distance, not being sucked in to your doom.

So GIFs from the game are an unofficial source now?

No, you are.

Yeah I'm done with you. You care about your wild theories more than what's actually smack dab in front of you.

Same to you.

I suggested exactly this as a possibility beforehand, except the more logical reason for them flying in is accepting the inevitable, as the one Luma everyone uses as their reference as a "sacrifice" does not sacrifice anything, merely does exactly what other characters do - get sucked into a black hole and be put into the reborn universe.

Except, again, they do this 100% willingly, as if they're charging in with a stampede to stop the impending doom.

We've already disclosed how real science clearly was not a faithful reference in Galaxy. None of the planets could exist if we use real science.

It's a fantasy game, there is very little relation to real science, and what's there is reality distorted from reality.

True, but the alternative explanation is that the black hole was overloaded with matter and exploded.

Ok, the sodium is really starting to build up in this thread.... is there any other character that isn't Rosalina we can talk about? Cause it seems like the more Sonicbrawler and Munomario discuss Rosalina, one or the other seems to end up getting very pissed off and no one really likes that

Well, this little Rosalina debate seems to be coming to a close (at least her "resetting" the universe), so it appears so! :D

 

[MagiusNecros]

Ok, the sodium is really starting to build up in this thread.... is there any other character that isn't Rosalina we can talk about? Cause it seems like the more Sonicbrawler and Munomario discuss Rosalina, one or the other seems to end up getting very pissed off and no one really likes that

What I've been saying man. It's what I've been saying.

 

[Etc_Guy]

We've already disclosed how real science clearly was not a faithful reference in Galaxy. None of the planets could exist if we use real science.

It's a fantasy game, there is very little relation to real science, and what's there is reality distorted from reality.

Looks like Space Mom fangirl is getting desperate. Thank for the recreation and creation of most people here.

*COUGH* CHAOS CONTROL *COUGH*

Instant wins is for losers. Look at .

Ok, the sodium is really starting to build up in this thread.... is there any other character that isn't Rosalina we can talk about? Cause it seems like the more Sonicbrawler and Munomario discuss Rosalina, one or the other seems to end up getting very pissed off and no one really likes that

Anyone. I don't know how it didn't click.

 

[Munomario777]

Instant wins is for losers. Look at .

If you win instantly, you're not a loser.

 

[MagiusNecros]

If you win instantly, you're not a loser.

That just makes you a cheater.

Bad jokes for everyone.

 

[Munomario777]

That just makes you a cheater.

Bad jokes for everyone.

No, I was being serious. You don't cheat unless you break rules, which freezing time wouldn't in this instance.

 

[MagiusNecros]

No, I was being serious. You don't cheat unless you break rules, which freezing time wouldn't in this instance.

You are already dead.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Wait we had rules? Ayy Lmao

 

[Munomario777]

Wait we had rules? Ayy Lmao

No, that's my point.

You are already dead.

Um, okay?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Um, okay?

I was going for stopping time for anyone but the user guaranteed a complete beatdown on a opponent not being able to do anything. :/

 

[ChikoLad]

Don't be simple.

I'm not, I'm being logical.

There is an entire university paper that I linked earlier in the thread that proves that none of the planets in Galaxy can exist for even a minute before exploding if you assume real scientific laws are at play in the Mario universe. Among many other things, like a human breathing in space. You cannot apply real science to this universe, it cannot work.

So, you're using the proof by lack of evidence fallacy. Okay.

Not exclusively, other proof was provided. Plenty of it.

I countered your evidence. You said I was ignoring it.

Rambling on with your baseless fanon is not a counter to evidence.

Yes, the same generic, white beams of light that Mario also appears out of.

Not generic, they only appear around Rosalina at the beginning and in the ending right there, and her protective barriers utilise it too. The light was huge, which was why Mario was also within it. Rosalina brought him to her, as we already know.

Also, raising your hands doesn't imply that you just did something of great power

She didn't just raise her hand, she was totally adjusting her body and regaining her composure, and had a strained expression on her face that she recovered afterwards. As you would after doing something involving great power like that.

Travelling as in launching themselves off into the distance, not being sucked in to your doom.

Except we do not see that as the most obvious occurrence. As I said, you like adding your own fluff. All I've been doing is stripping it down to what is literally seen in the game - that is, Luma's travelling into a black hole by virtue of it's suction or at least just accepting the inevitable, and my basis for it being suction or at least not with intent to sacrifice, is that everyone suggests that the Lumas were making ALL of the planets and galaxies, and claim that Mario's Luma so to speak, was doing that and was our cue that all of the others were. But Mario's Luma just simply gets sucked in and reborn again as himself, and that is integrated into the plot of the sequel. So no sacrifice happened there.

No, you are.

See, you're doing the twisting thing again. Doesn't matter if I provided the GIFs. I actually only did that for everyone's convenience, your welcome. If you really think I would try to lie like that, look up the cutscenes on YouTube, or look at them in the game itself.

Except, again, they do this 100% willingly, as if they're charging in with a stampede to stop the impending doom.

We still don't have 100% confirmation they did though, and more that they didn't.

True, but the alternative explanation is that the black hole was overloaded with matter and exploded.

Except that's not a thing that happens. You can't overload a black hole. Not in the Mario universe anyway, as there are plenty of the things in the game constantly sucking up matter.

Ok, the sodium is really starting to build up in this thread.... is there any other character that isn't Rosalina we can talk about? Cause it seems like the more Sonicbrawler and Munomario discuss Rosalina, one or the other seems to end up getting very pissed off and no one really likes that

I'm not angry or anything, but when someone has consistently (and not in relation to Rosalina only) been denying what creators of a game outright say, what is most obviously provided in a game (something he suggested we do, and it's what I am doing - and it's only backing everything I say up), been denying official footage because "it comes from" me (and then makes the ultimate hypocrite move and expects me to believe his theories that are solely coming out of his mind and have no sufficient basis in the game, and are as much fanon as those people who believe Rosalina is trans-sexual or something), goes back on what he says multiple times, and is trying to make up his own in-universe explanation for a character having less screen time in a sequel as if that means anything at all, was readily going to believe one of the most flawed Rosalina theories on the planet (the Game Theory episodes), and consistently cites infamously bad sources that are known for posting fanon themselves as well as plagiarising, and then tries to defend their false information - I have to say that at that point, the guy is basically pulling stuff out of nowhere, and cares more about having a fan theory and shoving that down the throats of others than he does about actual in-game events. Especially when he tries to tell people these in-game events are wrong or are not good sources just because I happen to be the one posting them.

He's basically exposed his pure bias in this matter and I am not going to argue further on Rosalina (or even Sonic, because while he is trying every cheap trick to understate Rosalina, he has been doing the same to overstate Sonic) if that's how it's gonna be.

Munomario, if you want to stick with your views for your own reasons, I don't mind, but don't try to tell me my views which have much more direct and concise basis are incorrect. Again, it makes you no better than the kind of people who would try to tell you Rosalina is a trans-sexual. Or Peach's daughter.

 

[Munomario777]

I was going for stopping time for anyone but the user guaranteed a complete beatdown on a opponent not being able to do anything. :/

Ah. Yeah, that's pretty much what happens, lol.

 

[ChikoLad]

Also I would like to add that I am EXTREMELY burned out from discussing Rosalina and would rather not be quoted on her.

Again, I have provided a sufficient amount of data, images, footage, and comprehension for her. You don't have to agree, but at this point, I feel I can confidently say I have provided enough of a case for her to be, at the very least, within most people's top three. I view her as number one, but everyone has their own rules they play by, so I will leave that to your own thoughts on that to yourselves. You don't need my thoughts to match yours 100% or anything.

Anyway, I'm outta the Rosalina stuff. Next time I come back I'll probably discuss someone else. Or if you guys have someone else who hasn't been discussed much, I'm all ears.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'm not, I'm being logical.

No you are being irrational. You keep saying you'll quit giving this topic attention but clearly your Defense Force Rosalina mojo keeps pulling you back. And if you want to prove me wrong you can stick to your word on letting the topic go like you have been saying you would. And until that happens I will sip my Iced Tea and say Meta Knight with Prep is the best. And barring that I can say Meta Knight is Meta Knight and Rosalina is not Meta Knight and have a big hoo hah to pointless nonsensical commentary. So cut the crap. We've established Rosalina is pretty powerful maybe even Omnipotent! So she is pretty up there with a few of the characters. Move on already.

I was under the opinion we were discussing power levels on the various characters in Smash and using background references from their games as supplements. Not to devolve into breaking down the ending of Super Mario Galaxy. Not to mention even discussing it is already a problem because mean old Magius made a scientific connection in the formation of a Black Hole. But his explanation doesn't count because "lol science in a Mario game GTFO". I mean if you want to let people talk about whoever and then get off on trumping them with Rosalina can counter this or that with this or that then that's what floats your boat but boy will it grind people's gears.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Little Mac confirmed mid tier canonically

 

[MagiusNecros]

Little Mac confirmed mid tier canonically

Wouldn't he be Low Tier? Cuz you know. Little Mac. "Little". *slapped*

 

[Munomario777]

Not exclusively, other proof was provided. Plenty of it.

Yes, which I countered.

Rambling on with your baseless fanon is not a counter to evidence.

I know. That's why I provided reasoning and evidence instead.

Not generic, they only appear around Rosalina at the beginning and in the ending right there, and her protective barriers utilise it too. The light was huge, which was why Mario was also within it. Rosalina brought him to her, as we already know.

I'm just saying that white light with light beams coming out of it is used often to represent a bright light source, and isn't unique to Rosalina throughout media.

She didn't just raise her hand, she was totally adjusting her body and regaining her composure, and had a strained expression on her face that she recovered afterwards. As you would after doing something involving great power like that.

Well, I'd be pretty stressed out if the universe was resetting.

Except we do not see that as the most obvious occurrence. As I said, you like adding your own fluff. All I've been doing is stripping it down to what is literally seen in the game - that is, Luma's travelling into a black hole by virtue of it's suction or at least just accepting the inevitable, and my basis for it being suction or at least not with intent to sacrifice, is that everyone suggests that the Lumas were making ALL of the planets and galaxies, and claim that Mario's Luma so to speak, was doing that and was our cue that all of the others were. But Mario's Luma just simply gets sucked in and reborn again as himself, and that is integrated into the plot of the sequel. So no sacrifice happened there.

You're not stripping it down to what's seen in the game. You're saying that Rosalina reset the universe (which we never see) because she explains the universe "resetting itself" to Mario, or adding your own fluff. If anyone (which it probably isn't), I'm the one who's taking what I see at face value (the Lumas send themselves into the black hole, causing it to explode into a new universe).

See, you're doing the twisting thing again. Doesn't matter if I provided the GIFs. I actually only did that for everyone's convenience, your welcome. If you really think I would try to lie like that, look up the cutscenes on YouTube, or look at them in the game itself.

The GIFs are (taken from) official sources. You aren't.

We still don't have 100% confirmation they did though, and more that they didn't.

Which confirmation exactly?

Except that's not a thing that happens. You can't overload a black hole. Not in the Mario universe anyway, as there are plenty of the things in the game constantly sucking up matter.

First, you said yourself that real-life physics don't apply here. Second, the whole universe and the whole Luma race > Mario and a few enemies at most that the other black holes in the game suck in.

I'm not angry or anything, but when someone has consistently (and not in relation to Rosalina only) been denying what creators of a game outright say, what is most obviously provided in a game (something he suggested we do, and it's what I am doing - and it's only backing everything I say up), been denying official footage because "it comes from" me (and then makes the ultimate hypocrite move and expects me to believe his theories that are solely coming out of his mind and have no sufficient basis in the game, and are as much fanon as those people who believe Rosalina is trans-sexual or something), goes back on what he says multiple times, and is trying to make up his own in-universe explanation for a character having less screen time in a sequel as if that means anything at all, was readily going to believe one of the most flawed Rosalina theories on the planet (the Game Theory episodes), and consistently cites infamously bad sources that are known for posting fanon themselves as well as plagiarising, and then tries to defend their false information - I have to say that at that point, the guy is basically pulling stuff out of nowhere at that point, and cares more about having a fan theory and shoving that down the throats of others than he does about actual in-game events. Especially when he tries to tell people these in-game events are wrong or are not good sources just because I happen to be the one posting them.

I'm not denying what they say. I'm saying it's irrelevant to the discussion.
I'm not denying the footage. I'm denying your explanations.
My theories have backing in the game (the Luma animations matching, the Lumas going into the black hole, the black hole exploding, etc.).
When do you think I went back on what I said? I'm curious, and willing to apologize if I caused any confusion.
I never said I believed it; I said I thought it was interesting to watch.
I'm citng the things that you said yourself were reliable on those sites: objective information. Dyrn is the one who brought up the Mario Wiki's explanation for the reset.
I care about in-game events; they're the basis for my arguments.

He's basically exposed his pure bias in this matter and I am not going to argue further on Rosalina (or even Sonic, because while he is trying every cheap trick to understate Rosalina, he has been doing the same to overstate Sonic) if that's how it's gonna be.

You're not bias-less yourself, taking what never happened on-screen and taking it as fact (Rosalina resetting the universe is actually fanon, since we never see it happen on-screen). Also, I'm just taking the official information on Sonic and posting it here. It just so happens that he has all these powers directly seen, which is why I support him.

Munomario, if you want to stick with your views for your own reasons, I don't mind, but don't try to tell me my views which have much more direct and concise basis are incorrect. Again, it makes you no better than the kind of people who would try to tell you Rosalina is a trans-sexual. Or Peach's daughter.

Same to you, except for the last two sentences. I respect you more than that.

Also I would like to add that I am EXTREMELY burned out from discussing Rosalina and would rather not be quoted on her.

Again, I have provided a sufficient amount of data, images, footage, and comprehension for her. You don't have to agree, but at this point, I feel I can confidently say I have provided enough of a case for her to be, at the very least, within most people's top three. I view her as number one, but everyone has their own rules they play by, so I will leave that to your own thoughts on that to yourselves. You don't need my thoughts to match yours 100% or anything.

Anyway, I'm outta the Rosalina stuff. Next time I come back I'll probably discuss someone else. Or if you guys have someone else who hasn't been discussed much, I'm all ears.

Okay, bye! It was fun debating with you.

 

[ChikoLad]

No you are being irrational. You keep saying you'll quit giving this topic attention but clearly your Defense Force Rosalina mojo keeps pulling you back. And if you want to prove me wrong you can stick to your word on letting the topic go like you have been saying you would. And until that happens I will sip my Iced Tea and say Meta Knight with Prep is the best. And barring that I can say Meta Knight is Meta Knight and Rosalina is not Meta Knight and have a big hoo hah to pointless nonsensical commentary. So cut the crap. We've established Rosalina is pretty powerful maybe even Omnipotent! So she is pretty up there with a few of the characters. Move on already.

I was under the opinion we were discussing power levels on the various characters in Smash and using background references from their games as supplements. Not to devolve into breaking down the ending of Super Mario Galaxy. Not to mention even discussing it is already a problem because mean old Magius made a scientific connection in the formation of a Black Hole. But his explanation doesn't count because "lol science in a Mario game GTFO". I mean if you want to let people talk about whoever and then get off on trumping them with Rosalina can counter this or that with this or that then that's what floats your boat but boy will it grind people's gears.

And here you are being biased again. You must really love me.

I respond to Rosalina stuff when I am quoted. When you unwatch a thread (like I have), you still get quote notifications. When someone is quoting me, I like to give them a response. That's the way I am, and if you don't like that, then tough. You call it "ROSALIN DEFUNSE FURCE MOKO", I call it being polite and social (no, I'm not being polite to you right now because you certainly are not being polite to me). And in fact, you have been one of the people quoting me most frequently. You tell me to stop being pulled back, yet you keep yanking my chain. Talk about indecisive love.

Also, I didn't say "lol science don't work GTFO", I gave you conclusive proof that this universe does not use real life scientific laws.

I have been willing to let the topic of Rosalina go for a while now, but if it is to be let go, I wasn't going to let that be on a very poor note, being fanon. So I chimed in for that. If you want to bring up another character, go ahead. You keep saying we should do it enough. So why don't you practice what you preach?

I would reply to Munomario, but he has just given me more of his baseless "you're wrong, I'm right" shtick that is based off of his own picky and very specific conditions that are geared specifically to make his points arbitrarily look more correct than they are, such as saying developer's word is irrelevant, which is just objectively wrong. And again, that is nothing to do with Rosalina exclusively.

 

[MagiusNecros]

You are really just proving my point.

 

[ChikoLad]

As you are proving mine - you're more concerned with getting one up on me than actually doing what you keep saying everyone should do.

And since your complaint was me responding to something about Rosalina, this isn't me doing that. I am responding to a claim you made about me. Perfectly valid under your rules.

 

[Munomario777]

I would reply to Munomario, but he has just given me more of his baseless "you're wrong, I'm right" shtick that is based off of his own picky and very specific conditions that are geared specifically to make his points arbitrarily look more correct than they are, such as saying developer's word is irrelevant, which is just objectively wrong. And again, that is nothing to do with Rosalina exclusively.

I'm saying that you're wrong because I genuinely disagree based on the evidence I've seen. Which conditions am I creating exactly? I'm not saying that developer word is irrelevant (such as clarifying which games are canon). I'm saying that development history is irrelevant to this particular discussion, since it has nothing to do with what happened canonically (such as the fact that beta levels in games aren't canon).

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Wouldn't he be Low Tier? Cuz you know. Little Mac. "Little". *slapped*

Late reply but...

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm not saying that developer word is irrelevant (such as clarifying which games are canon).

Just leaving with this, because it is quite hilarious. Literal quote from you below:

I'm not denying what they say. I'm saying it's irrelevant to the discussion.

You lost your credibility long ago. Don't make it worse. Don't quote me.

 

[MagiusNecros]

As you are proving mine - you're more concerned with getting one up on me than actually doing what you keep saying everyone should do.

And since your complaint was me responding to something about Rosalina, this isn't me doing that. I am responding to a claim you made about me. Perfectly valid under your rules.

Everyone =/= You

Whether a game or not is faithful to science on a 1:1 ratio is irrelevant. It doesn't disprove anything. A matter of fact statement is not evidence. It's a bloated opinion.

Here let me just drop this in for you.

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/

 

[ChikoLad]

You can stop quoting me and giving me YOUR bloated opinions now. It is getting rather old, honey.

 

[Etc_Guy]

You can stop quoting me and giving me YOUR bloated opinions now. It is getting rather old, honey.

I'm mixed saying this, but you're getting old too since no one else is defending .