Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Crystanium]

There's only one cutscene in the game that I can think of where Shulk uses Monado Shield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xvIig9_hxE
The Shield does remain after the hit happens. Tbh, it's kind of op >_>. I can see why the story writers don't have him use it much in cutscenes. Actually, never mind, it's probably more that he doesn't have a need to because of the future seeing. This thing can take fire and lightning hits, so I doubt that bomb is getting through.

Anyways, Samus's wave beam sounds like an issue for Shulk's Monado Shield, so I guess it would be Shulk foreseeing the attack with a vision. That's what happens when he or somebody he knows is under threat. Like here he is when he first gets the Monado... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQSEdyCG-Uk

Shulk's a bad person to compare to though, with his eventual

Spoiler: xenoblade endgame stuff

ability to wish you into nonexistence

I'm not sure how powerful that strike would be. Momentum is p = mv. The velocity of a boxer's punch is about 15 m/s and an arm should be like 9 kg. So this gives us 135 kg m/s (N). However, the time of strike, assuming it's only 10 milliseconds, would mean the force exerted would be 13,500 N, or 3,035 pounds of force. I don't know how long it takes for a boxer's fist to press against a human's head or body, though. The more time, the less force. If I knew the mass of that creature, I probably could determine the output of force.

Lightning is atmospheric discharge, and though enemies may have attacks that are called "lightning", it doesn't necessarily mean that's what it is, at least not by the definition. However, in Metroid Prime Hunters, Samus does wield a weapon called the Volt Driver, which produces "multi-terawatt bursts of high voltage". This weapon is from Kanden. "A disruptive electromagnetic field appears to surround the hunter Kanden, analysis suggests voltage potential comparable to that found in lightning storms."

So while the Volt Driver does not produce lightning, it produces an electrical output. I've read that lightning typically produces 1 terawatt, and seeing as how the Volt Driver is "multi-terawatt", it's above 1 terawatt. I've power scaled that Samus' plasma beam in Metroid Prime is at least 1,650°C, since it doesn't harm Meta Ridey, who is capable of passing through Tallon IV's atmosphere unaffected. The Light Beam would be at least 4,726.85°C, according to color temperature.

But as for the 2D games, I don't know if there's even a temperature on Samus' plasma beam. All I know is that pierces through enemies, whereas the wave beam passes through solid objects. And if we consider what the wave beam actually is in the real world, then it's much faster than it appears. Radio waves, microwaves, photons, infrared, ultraviolet, x-rays all travel at light speed and are waves. Even with Visions, unless Shulk can counter things traveling supersonic speeds or higher, I don't see how that will aid him.

Hmm, interesting.

While I'll agree with you on the subject of Mario's Starman, Sonic's Super Sonic form can stand on lava, as seen in stages like Hill Top Zone and Lava Reef Zone from Sonic 2 and Sonic & Knuckles, respectively. I don't think you can judge Shulk's Monado Arts based on a standard shield from Metroid, since they're from different series, and there's no indication that Shulk's Shield Art uses the same substance. However, since Shulk's Shield Art depends on the enemy's attack being of an equal or lower level, I think it's safe to say a Power Bomb could likely penetrate it.

At best, the lava would be 700°C on a low end. It could be higher. Being unfazed by lava, though, even with that low-end, would mean Sonic's super form can withstand higher temperatures. We just don't know how high.

I think power bombs might be a thermobaric weapon if the main thing about them is their extreme heat.

If you go by Galaxy alone, it's just straight up plot holes - in cutscenes, Rosalina shows abilities that more than enable her to take on Bowser, despite her requesting help.

And by Galaxy alone you mean Super Mario Galaxy.

It's fine that Rosalina can take on Bowser, but oddly she doesn't use any of her abilities to just get rid of him. In fact, it something Mario can do, so that's honestly not impressive.

But now, with 3D World, Rosalina has been shown taking on multiple powered up Bowsers at once:

Not impressive. Bowser looks like some bumbling idiot.

Even if you continue to be stubborn and ignore the obvious plot hole in Rosalina "needing" Mario's help in Galaxy and decide to ignore the abilities she has, currently, she has been shown defeating him in a main series Mario game with a limited arsenal (and one that is IDENTICAL to what Mario had in Galaxy - save for one or two extra abilities, a BETTER spin attack than what Mario had, and the omission of Star Bits (which were useless against Bowser in Galaxy anyway). So she can take Bowser just fine. That much is certain.

Also, Miyamoto has said in the Iwata Asks regarding 3D World, that Rosalina is made to be "a regular girl" in Mario Kart specifically, and such is why she also has a limited arsenal in 3D World (as her god-like powers are completely unnecessary in these family party games):

"When Super Mario Galaxy first came out, I was a little hung up on why Rosalina was showing up when Princess Peach was already there. I thought it was fine as long as it was only Super Mario Galaxy, and we made her design so she's a little bigger. But all of a sudden she was a regular character in Mario Kart as just a regular girl, even her size turned to normal."

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/super-mario-3d-world/0/3

Considering Rosalina was in more than one Mario Kart game, the context I'm getting is that by "all of a sudden she was a regular character in Mario Kart as just a regular girl" to mean that she wasn't some special character anymore as she was showing up in other Mario Kart games. Her size was larger in Mario Kart Wii. That's all that is meant. And I'm the one "continu[ing] to be stubborn".

The Luma merely said good-bye to Mario as it was accepting the inevitable (the end of this universe, and it's death in this universe), and it was never stated to be anything more than that. The tear-jerking theme plays because it is actually Luma's theme in general, according to the soundtrack, and according to Smash Bros too (it's incorporated into the remix of "Rosalina in the Observatory").

That Luma told you specifically that he waved to Mario to accept the inevitable? Really? Because sure, we see that Luma wave good-bye to Mario, but to say that he's doing that because he's accepting the inevitable really passes him off as some character who has a death wish because he sure as hell readily flies right into that supermassive black hole. Sacrificing one's self would make more sense.

The logic behind this "Luma's sacrificed themselves to create a new universe" point is riding on "Rosalina said they can be reborn as galaxies when they die", but the keyword there is "can". They are not always.[/quote]

Obviously, but as we can see from the ending, it's a "new galaxy". Or at least according to Mario.

Your assumption that Young Master Luma waves goodbye to Mario because it is going to be reborn as a Galaxy to form a new universe is incorrect, as Young Master Luma does not get reborn as a Galaxy - it is merely re-incarnated as itself, only with memory loss. Meaning it was not sacrificing itself.

Where is this Luma Mario had after the resetting of the Universe?

And she feasibly can - she's got a universe beneath her gown.

SSB isn't canon.

You did, but for some strange reason, you tried twisting it in your head to make it seem otherwise.

Same can be said of you.

can survive being engulfed in flames with his skin exposed and shake off the ashes like dirt. Can do that?

Samus can bath in magma while wearing the Gravity Suit.

 

[erico9001]

I'm not sure how powerful that strike would be. Momentum is p = mv. The velocity of a boxer's punch is about 15 m/s and an arm should be like 9 kg. So this gives us 135 kg m/s (N). However, the time of strike, assuming it's only 10 milliseconds, would mean the force exerted would be 13,500 N, or 3,035 pounds of force. I don't know how long it takes for a boxer's fist to press against a human's head or body, though. The more time, the less force. If I knew the mass of that creature, I probably could determine the output of force.

Lightning is atmospheric discharge, and though enemies may have attacks that are called "lightning", it doesn't necessarily mean that's what it is, at least not by the definition. However, in Metroid Prime Hunters, Samus does wield a weapon called the Volt Driver, which produces "multi-terawatt bursts of high voltage". This weapon is from Kanden. "A disruptive electromagnetic field appears to surround the hunter Kanden, analysis suggests voltage potential comparable to that found in lightning storms."

So while the Volt Driver does not produce lightning, it produces an electrical output. I've read that lightning typically produces 1 terawatt, and seeing as how the Volt Driver is "multi-terawatt", it's above 1 terawatt. I've power scaled that Samus' plasma beam in Metroid Prime is at least 1,650°C, since it doesn't harm Meta Ridey, who is capable of passing through Tallon IV's atmosphere unaffected. The Light Beam would be at least 4,726.85°C, according to color temperature.

But as for the 2D games, I don't know if there's even a temperature on Samus' plasma beam. All I know is that pierces through enemies, whereas the wave beam passes through solid objects. And if we consider what the wave beam actually is in the real world, then it's much faster than it appears. Radio waves, microwaves, photons, infrared, ultraviolet, x-rays all travel at light speed and are waves. Even with Visions, unless Shulk can counter things traveling supersonic speeds or higher, I don't see how that will aid him.

Monado Shield takes any sort of force and counteracts it somehow. Tbh, it's an impenetrable, magical shield.

Is this the wave beam?

If so, that's definitely not like any sort of wave that is in real life. You really ought to just treat it as it is in the game otherwise you're making it into something it isn't.

 

[Munomario777]

Monado Shield takes any sort of force and counteracts it somehow. Tbh, it's an impenetrable, magical shield.

In order to block the [attack] successfully, the Monado Shield arts level must be equal to or higher than the Roman numeral suffix shown on the enemy's [attack]'s name.
I.e. the Shield Art can only block things of equal or lesser strength.

 

[ChikoLad]

It's fine that Rosalina can take on Bowser, but oddly she doesn't use any of her abilities to just get rid of him. In fact, it something Mario can do, so that's honestly not impressive.

Never said defeating Bowser is impressive (it is to a degree, but not entirely), but people seem unwilling to accept that she can't even take him, when she clearly with her 3D World limitations alone.

Considering Rosalina was in more than one Mario Kart game, the context I'm getting is that by "all of a sudden she was a regular character in Mario Kart as just a regular girl" to mean that she wasn't some special character anymore as she was showing up in other Mario Kart games. Her size was larger in Mario Kart Wii. That's all that is meant. And I'm the one "continu[ing] to be stubborn".

No, by regular he means she is not portrayed with her god-like powers in Mario Kart as it's unnecessary to show them off there (they don't factor into the game because it's a racing game). They try to make her a little more upbeat too in Mario Kart and 3D World, because they are fun multiplayer games for the family, while Super Mario Galaxy was a much deeper single-player, story driven game by comparison. She's no different to many other characters who have a limited amount of power depending on the context of the game (for example, Sonic running at the speed of a human athlete in the Olympic Games and other similar situations in those games), or who have tweaked personalities for the purpose of fitting into the game (Shadow would never participate in something like the Olympics in a canon game), even though Rosalina's personality isn't actually different in Mario Kart, they simply show a different side of her as stated in the manuals. Miyamoto is saying that "if you're character is super powerful and mysterious and is showing up in a party game, there is no need to be referencing that".

However, Rosalina is still portrayed with her great power in Mario Golf and Smash, since it's appropriate to show it off there.

That Luma told you specifically that he waved to Mario to accept the inevitable? Really? Because sure, we see that Luma wave good-bye to Mario, but to say that he's doing that because he's accepting the inevitable really passes him off as some character who has a death wish because he sure as hell readily flies right into that supermassive black hole. Sacrificing one's self would make more sense.

It's not that he has a death wish. Considering that Rosalina is his mother figure, he could have easily known the universe would be saved by her. Rosalina acts as if she has done it before too. So yeah, he accepted the inevitable - this universe is dying, and I'll see you again in the next one.

Obviously, but as we can see from the ending, it's a "new galaxy". Or at least according to Mario.

Mario welcomes the Galaxy that appeared right outside of the Mushroom Kingdom, which is made up of planets from the various galaxies in the game. It's clear that's not the extent of the universe though, as Galaxy 2 shows us.

Where is this Luma Mario had after the resetting of the Universe?

In the 120 Star ending of Galaxy 1 (which takes place after the universe's rebirth), the Luma Mario had with him throughout the game (Young Master Luma, as he is referred to in Galaxy 2 by Lubba) appears out of the broken ship on the Gateway Planet, after Rosalina flies off in her Observatory. He then jumps into the air and disappears.

Fast forward to Galaxy 2, and Mario finds a lost Luma with memory loss at the beginning. He looks just like the Luma from Galaxy 1, and immediately takes a shine to Mario, and sits under his cap and grants him the spin attack, just like Galaxy 1.

Fast forward to Galaxy 2's ending, and Young Master Luma is re-united with Rosalina. Rosalina thanks Mario for "bringing back my lost child".

The Luma said goodbye to Mario, accepted the fate of the universe, awoke in the new one but Rosalina had already left the planet so it was separated from her, he meets up with Mario again albeit with memory loss in Galaxy 2, and re-unites with Rosalina in Galaxy 2.

So, the Luma didn't wave goodbye to Mario because he was sacrificing himself (because he never actually did), he was just waving goodbye, knowing they would meet again in the next universe.

SSB isn't canon.

While I could make the argument that it is to some degree (though that's a whole other discussion), it doesn't really matter. As stated before, as long as something does not contradict canon, it's a natural extension of the character, and that's how we have been treating this discussion (it was agreed upon a few pages ago). Mario Golf is not canon, yet that's viable for Rosalina, as are many other non-canon games people are discussing here, so why shouldn't Smash be? Both were approved by her creators who also made her this god-like being in Galaxy, and her reasoning for being portrayed with more normalcy in Mario Kart has been officially explained.

Plus, Smash is the first game where we are expected to see beneath Rosalina's gown regularly (since she kicks a lot to attack, leading to it's exposure), and this is what they did with it, so as far I'm concerned, that's how her creators say it looks. Other games just fill it out with a black void or make it look like a cheap McDonald's toy, but you either can't see under it without taking her model to a 3D modelling program, or you inevitably end up seeing it under very specific camera conditions.

Sticking to "what the characters did in cutscenes" exclusively is terrible for the discussion, as a lot of it is context sensitive.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Monado Shield basically counteracts any powerful attack. Even against the final boss in Xenoblade. And that's when you can React to what Zanza is going to do with a more powerful vision(that's what the B button press is for) which bypasses the need for Monado Purge. Which prevented foes from reading your thoughts and catching you at your own game.

While Rosalina's Gown is interesting it's never been implemented as a plot point. For all you know it could be an exotic fabric meant to look like Space. And I can't recall it looking like that anywhere but Smash 4. Props if you can prove me wrong. But it's about as viable as Ganondorf emerging from the Darkness. Extra fluff for Smash IMO. Just like Meta Knight's Cape can warp MK into a separate Dimension.

 

[ChikoLad]

Props if you can prove me wrong.

Sakurai made an entire Pic of the Day not long after Rosalina's reveal where all he did was tell us that "it is said that the cosmos is beneath Rosalina's gown. This was actually featured briefly in her debut trailer".

http://mii-gamer.com/2014/02/06/smash-bros-rosalina-cosmos-hidden-underneath-gown/

Not only that, but if you look at it in game, you can see that inside her gown is not a flat texture, and that by moving the camera around, you can see different parts of the cosmos. It's like looking through a window and tilting your head to see more. Plus, her legs fade into it.

Also, if you get a Metal Box with Peach, the black void she has under her dress disappears and you can see all of her legs including her butt, revealing that it's just a censorship thing. However, when Rosalina gets one, the cosmos turns metal, but her full legs cannot be seen, indicating that it is meant to be genuine.

Like I said, in past Mario games, you cannot even see underneath her dress under normal circumstances, so it just looks like an unfinished part of the model. It looks horrifying in MK8.

 

[Phenomiracle]

Like I said, in past Mario games, you cannot even see underneath her dress under normal circumstances, so it just looks like an unfinished part of the model. It looks horrifying in MK8.

Wait, what's wrong with how it looks in MK8?

Her biker outfit looks infinitely better anyway.

 

[ChikoLad]

Wait, what's wrong with how it looks in MK8?

Her biker outfit looks infinitely better anyway.

I had an image I posted on Tumblr a while ago when I first saw it but I don't have that right now so I will try to explain:

Basically, it's similar to Smash in a way, but there is no cosmos, and her legs don't fade. Instead, her legs are solidly attached to a blank white texture before you can even see her knees.

So basically, the dress is hollow until just shy of the knees. Realistically, she should not actually be able to move her legs at all, and she basically only has half of her legs, just attached to the dress which isn't fully hollow.

And yeah, the biker outfit is the sex. <3

 

[MagiusNecros]

Sakurai made an entire Pic of the Day not long after Rosalina's reveal where all he did was tell us that "it is said that the cosmos is beneath Rosalina's gown. This was actually featured briefly in her debut trailer".

http://mii-gamer.com/2014/02/06/smash-bros-rosalina-cosmos-hidden-underneath-gown/

Not only that, but if you look at it in game, you can see that inside her gown is not a flat texture, and that by moving the camera around, you can see different parts of the cosmos. It's like looking through a window and tilting your head to see more. Plus, her legs fade into it.

Also, if you get a Metal Box with Peach, the black void she has under her dress disappears and you can see all of her legs including her butt, revealing that it's just a censorship thing. However, when Rosalina gets one, the cosmos turns metal, but her full legs cannot be seen, indicating that it is meant to be genuine.

Like I said, in past Mario games, you cannot even see underneath her dress under normal circumstances, so it just looks like an unfinished part of the model. It looks horrifying in MK8.

So elsewhere the Cosmos under her dress is nonexistent. And we know how accurate Sakurai is with things. Ridley and Ganondorf to name a few. Thanks for clearing this up.

 

[ChikoLad]

So elsewhere the Cosmos under her dress is nonexistent. And we know how accurate Sakurai is with things. Ridley and Ganondorf to name a few. Thanks for clearing this up.

The cosmos is not modelled in elsewhere because you are not supposed to get a look under her dress elsewhere. Mario games don't often bring up the topic of what's underneath a woman's dress in order to keep it E for Everyone, after all. The developers simply didn't put anything under it as you are not supposed to see it.

When you do get a look under Rosalina's dress in MK8, it looks like this:

And that is not how a real, normal, non-universe containing dress even works. She outright only has half of her legs modelled in, she wouldn't be able to move like that. It's clearly a case of "the player will never actually see under there so don't put anything under there". And you can't catch this in regular gameplay, as the frame rate is too fast. To set up a screenshot like this, you have to get a specific one of her random trick animations in a race, make sure it's the "rotational" version of it, and take it to MKTV and use it's slow motion feature on the animation. Also, you absolutely have to use Time Trial mode to get this camera angle. If you don't, the camera will almost always be below and in front of her as she is making jumps.

The cosmos underneath her gown is canon because past games just had nothing under there, not even her full legs. The cosmos in Smash is an official explanation approved by her creators, i.e. it's canon.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Gonna need the source on that one from the Mario Galaxy staff to convince me.

 

[Rayman!]

Shulk is the strongest, with his Ultimate Monado, that can kill a god(look at the story of XBC)

 

[ChikoLad]

Gonna need the source on that one from the Mario Galaxy staff to convince me.

Rosalina is Nintendo EAD's baby. Much like any character that is added into Smash, there is no way Sakurai did not contact EAD about adding her and what he wanted to do with her.

Yoshiaki Koizumi (her creator) definitely had to sit down with Sakurai at some point and would definitely have been told about this, and how to deal with her inevitable upskirts. For every single character that gets added to this game, Sakurai has to get in contact with their creators to get their approval on what should be done with the character.

Rosalina even has the cosmos beneath her gown in CGI trailers:

 

[MagiusNecros]

You guys are all wrong, Shulk is the strongest, with his Ultimate Monado, that can kill a god(look at the story of XBC)

Kirby. Copy Ability. Would you look at that.

----------------------

Until Rosalina appears with Cosmos Undergown in a game that isn't Smash I'm not convinced. I prefer canon examples over noncanon examples. Thank you kindly. Everything else about Rosalina is legit though. Arguing about Cosmos gown is about the same as arguing about Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape. But you don't see me trumpeting Meta Knight as a Dimensional Overlord.

 

[Munomario777]

I don't really see how having the "cosmos beneath her gown" would actually give her any powers anyways.

 

[Rayman!]

Kirby. Copy Ability. Would you look at that.

----------------------

Until Rosalina appears with Cosmos Undergown in a game that isn't Smash I'm not convinced. I prefer canon examples over noncanon examples. Thank you kindly. Everything else about Rosalina is legit though. Arguing about Cosmos gown is about the same as arguing about Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape. But you don't see me trumpeting Meta Knight as a Dimensional Overlord.

Kirby cant get no where near close to Shulk.

 

[ChikoLad]

Kirby. Copy Ability. Would you look at that.

----------------------

Until Rosalina appears with Cosmos Undergown in a game that isn't Smash I'm not convinced. I prefer canon examples over noncanon examples. Thank you kindly. Everything else about Rosalina is legit though. Arguing about Cosmos gown is about the same as arguing about Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape. But you don't see me trumpeting Meta Knight as a Dimensional Overlord.

Meta Knight didn't have it specifically pointed out by the game's developer, nor was it incorporated into CGI footage.

I don't really see how having the "cosmos beneath her gown" would actually give her any powers anyways.

How do you think that works?

There is also the fact that her body literally is in two places at once because of it. Her legs fade into it.

---------

Also, while it shouldn't matter whether it's canon or not (like I said before, canon only refers to what specific events happen in a timeline, so it shouldn't matter if Smash isn't canon, since many of the franchises these characters come from have no timeline anyway), it's easy to argue Smash is canon.

 

[Munomario777]

Meta Knight didn't have it specifically pointed out by the game's developer, nor was it incorporated into CGI footage.

How do you think that works?

There is also the fact that her body literally is in two places at once because of it. Her legs fade into it.

All of the characters' moves are referenced in the instruction booklet of the game, and in the tips.

True, but I don't think galaxies are actually that small, so perhaps the "cosmos" are just a sort of mini-galaxy-explosion-thing generator.

That would sort of work against it being the actual cosmos the way I see it, since I can't imagine how that would work anatomy-wise. I think it's more of a layer of some sort of galactic material that her legs are passing through.

 

[ChikoLad]

All of the characters' moves are referenced in the instruction booklet of the game, and in the tips.

True, but I don't think galaxies are actually that small, so perhaps the "cosmos" are just a sort of mini-galaxy-explosion-thing generator.

That would sort of work against it being the actual cosmos the way I see it, since I can't imagine how that would work anatomy-wise. I think it's more of a layer of some sort of galactic material that her legs are passing through.

The MK8 way doesn't work anatomy wise either.

Plus, she's a deity, it fits with her theme to have this impossible stuff happening with her.

Not that Rosalina has to abide by regular human anatomy either way:

 

[Munomario777]

The MK8 way doesn't work anatomy wise either.

Plus, she's a deity, it fits with her theme to have this impossible stuff happening with her.

Not that Rosalina has to abide by regular human anatomy either way:

I never said it did, but the way I proposed does.

Really? I haven't seen her body parts detach anywhere else.

Flexible people exist (but I will say that is a hilariously awkward crouching pose).

 

[Smearglangelo]

I see that @ ChikoLad is still trolling this thread hard.

Regarding the Kirby Vs. Shulk argument, If Shulk is able to prevent himself from being inhaled then Kirby can just use his Copy Ability Deluxe to gain Shulk's powers without having to eat him.

 

[Munomario777]

I see that @ ChikoLad is still trolling this thread hard.

Regarding the Kirby Vs. Shulk argument, If Shulk is able to prevent himself from being inhaled then Kirby can just use his Copy Ability Deluxe to gain Shulk's powers without having to eat him.

Well, there hasn't been a Copy Essence Deluxe shown for Shulk, only standard Kirby enemies/copy abilities.

EDIT: Forgot about this.

 

[ChikoLad]

I never said it did, but the way I proposed does.

Really? I haven't seen her body parts detach anywhere else.

Flexible people exist (but I will say that is a hilariously awkward crouching pose).

"Her legs are passing through a galactic material".

That doesn't work. "Galactic material" isn't a thing that exists. I'd imagine that would just technically be everything a galaxy contains, which would be totally different depending on the galaxy in question.

I swear, so many people attach the word "galaxy" or "galactic" to everything after playing Galaxy, and I've never understood why.

It was literally described, word for word, as a "cosmos beneath her gown". Look up the meaning of the word, cosmos, and you get:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cosmos

a : universe 1

b (1) : an orderly harmonious systematic universe — compare chaos (2) : order, harmony
2
: a complex orderly self-inclusive system
3
plural cosmos also cos·mos·es [New Latin, genus name, from Greek kosmos] : any of a genus (Cosmos) of tropical American composite herbs; especially : a widely cultivated tall annual (C. bipinnatus) with yellow or red disks and showy ray flowers

The first definition is the relevant one here, since I doubt Sakurai was trying to say Rosalina stuffs herbs underneath it.

 

[Smearglangelo]

Well, there hasn't been a Copy Essence Deluxe shown for Shulk, only standard Kirby enemies/copy abilities.

I'm talking about this ability: http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Copy
The concept that there's a Copy Essence Deluxe of a Copy Copy Ability is very confusing.

 

[Munomario777]

"Her legs are passing through a galactic material".

That doesn't work. "Galactic material" isn't a thing that exists. I'd imagine that would just technically be everything a galaxy contains, which would be totally different depending on the galaxy in question.

I swear, so many people attach the word "galaxy" or "galactic" to everything after playing Galaxy, and I've never understood why.

It was literally described, word for word, as a "cosmos beneath her gown". Look up the meaning of the word, cosmos, and you get:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cosmos

a : universe 1

b (1) : an orderly harmonious systematic universe — compare chaos (2) : order, harmony
2
: a complex orderly self-inclusive system
3
plural cosmos also cos·mos·es [New Latin, genus name, from Greek kosmos] : any of a genus (Cosmos) of tropical American composite herbs; especially : a widely cultivated tall annual (C. bipinnatus) with yellow or red disks and showy ray flowers

The first definition is the relevant one here, since I doubt Sakurai was trying to say Rosalina stuffs herbs underneath it.

Space goddesses aren't a thing that exists. Mario isn't a thing that exist. Power stars aren't a thing that exists. Your point?

I said "galactic" because it creates miniature galaxies in Smash Brothers.

I'm talking about this ability: http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Copy
The concept that there's a Copy Essence Deluxe of a Copy Copy Ability is very confusing.

Copy-ception!

 

[ChikoLad]

Space goddesses aren't a thing that exists. Mario isn't a thing that exist. Power stars aren't a thing that exists. Your point?

I said "galactic" because it creates miniature galaxies in Smash Brothers.

I mean "galactic material" is not a thing that exists at all, even in a fictional universe.

The other things you mentioned do exist, just not IRL. There is a difference between "not existing" and being a fictional entity. The former implies you are not even the latter. There has never been something called "galactic material" in any of these games, and I've never heard the term used in anything in my entire life.

I don't see why you are trying to explain something that has an official explanation. Rosalina just has a universe that can facilitate life ("well ordered, systematic") up her dress.

Because why wouldn't she? :V

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'm now convinced when Rosalina attacks with little Galaxies is that she is farting them out. Obviously Wario has the bigger farts. And has the power of yellow. And yellow is better then red and blue. So Wario farts are better then Rosalina Farts.

But maybe Rosalina Farts are better then Wario Farts since Wario being a greedy fat man has to build up his farts. But Rosalina as some Deity Goddess Force of Nature thing can fart at will at any time.

Much fart. Much flatulence.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm now convinced when Rosalina attacks with little Galaxies is that she is farting them out. Obviously Wario has the bigger farts. And has the power of yellow. And yellow is better then red and blue. So Wario farts are better then Rosalina Farts.

But maybe Rosalina Farts are better then Wario Farts since Wario being a greedy fat man has to build up his farts. But Rosalina as some Deity Goddess Force of Nature thing can fart at will at any time.

Much fart. Much flatulence.

Stop stealing my funny fanons.

 

[Munomario777]

I mean "galactic material" is not a thing that exists at all, even in a fictional universe.

The other things you mentioned do exist, just not IRL. There is a difference between "not existing" and being a fictional entity. The former implies you are not even the latter. There has never been something called "galactic material" in any of these games, and I've never heard the term used in anything in my entire life.

I don't see why you are trying to explain something that has an official explanation. Rosalina just has a universe that can facilitate life ("well ordered, systematic") up her dress.

Because why wouldn't she? :V

"Exist: have objective reality or being." "Reality: the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them." If we say that existing in fiction means existing, anything I can think of exists because by the time I think of it, it's in the "fiction" of my imagination(including the galactic material). There has never been something called "Boulder Planet" in a Mario Galaxy game either, yet there it is. Just because something isn't referred to using a specific name doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

An entire universe cannot fit in her dress. A portal to the universe, I can see that, but not an entire universe. Even if it was as small of a scale as the galaxies in Smash indicate, that galaxy alone would barely fit. Not to mention her legs clearly being attached to her body, since we see her not wearing that dress in Mario Kart 8, when she has the biker outfit on.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Stop stealing my funny fanons.

You're just jealous I said it first.

 

[ChikoLad]

"Exist: have objective reality or being." If we say that existing in fiction means existing, anything I can think of exists because by the time I think of it, it's in the "fiction" of my imagination(including the galactic material). There has never been something called "Boulder Planet" in a Mario Galaxy game either, yet there it is. Just because something isn't referred to using a specific name doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

An entire universe cannot fit in her dress. A portal to the universe, I can see that, but not an entire universe. Even if it was as small of a scale as the galaxies in Smash indicate, that galaxy alone would barely fit. Not to mention her legs clearly being attached to her body, since we see her not wearing that dress in Mario Kart 8, when she has the biker outfit on.

You go on a spiel about how "galactic material" can be a thing just because you say it is, then immediately follow-up with "this deity cannot do this thing because it is absolutely beyond my comprehension in this game where a pink marshmellow can fight leaders of armies, or goddess Palutena". Such sound reasoning.

Also, the cosmos is beneath her gown. Doesn't mean she cannot change outfit. Not that it matters, the biker outfit is something the player never has to use and is merely an "alt costume" as such for the non-canon Mario Kart games which literally have no story elements.

Also, her legs are not attached to her body on her Smash model (nor are they in the MK8 dress model, even though that's irrelevant). You can get the dress physics to glitch up which reveals that they only modelled up the fade and that it's not a lighting trick, so Rosalina's legs end up floating there.

If we say that existing in fiction means existing, anything I can think of exists because by the time I think of it, it's in the "fiction" of my imagination(including the galactic material).

The fiction of your mind does not equal the games we are discussing.

Something exists as soon as one comes up with it. "Boulder Planet" is simply a name someone came up with to describe that planet for their guide. Which means the name exists colloquially, but not officially within the game.

 

[Munomario777]

You go on a spiel about how "galactic material" can be a thing just because you say it is, then immediately follow-up with "this deity cannot do this thing because it is absolutely beyond my comprehension in this game where a pink marshmellow can fight leaders of armies, or goddess Palutena". Such sound reasoning.

Also, the cosmos is beneath her gown. Doesn't mean she cannot change outfit. Not that it matters, the biker outfit is something the player never has to use and is merely an "alt costume" as such for the non-canon Mario Kart games which literally have no story elements.

Also, her legs are not attached to her body on her Smash model (nor are they in the MK8 dress model, even though that's irrelevant). You can get the dress physics to glitch up which reveals that they only modelled up the fade and that it's not a lighting trick, so Rosalina's legs end up floating there.

Rosalina has been shown to be able to make galaxies, not become a TARDIS.

Oh, so Smash is canon but Kart isn't. Riiiiight. You seem to be twisting things in your favor here.

You just said that the lack of modelling of Rosalina's starry dress interior in Galaxy doesn't count, yet you use a glitch as an argument. Again, twisting things in your favor.

 

[Etc_Guy]

I'm now convinced when Rosalina attacks with little Galaxies is that she is farting them out. Obviously Wario has the bigger farts. And has the power of yellow. And yellow is better then red and blue. So Wario farts are better then Rosalina Farts.

But maybe Rosalina Farts are better then Wario Farts since Wario being a greedy fat man has to build up his farts. But Rosalina as some Deity Goddess Force of Nature thing can fart at will at any time.

Much fart. Much flatulence.

Exactly. The only massive difference is that uses real farts.

Samus can bath in magma while wearing the Gravity Suit.

I meant without her suit. That's why I chose zero suit instead of normal.

You go on a spiel about how "galactic material" can be a thing just because you say it is, then immediately follow-up with "this deity cannot do this thing because it is absolutely beyond my comprehension in this game where a pink marshmellow can fight leaders of armies, or goddess Palutena". Such sound reasoning.

Also, the cosmos is beneath her gown. Doesn't mean she cannot change outfit. Not that it matters, the biker outfit is something the player never has to use and is merely an "alt costume" as such for the non-canon Mario Kart games which literally have no story elements.

Also, her legs are not attached to her body on her Smash model (nor are they in the MK8 dress model, even though that's irrelevant). You can get the dress physics to glitch up which reveals that they only modelled up the fade and that it's not a lighting trick, so Rosalina's legs end up floating there.

Are you certain that isn't more powerful? Not only was he planned to be in the original Super Mario Bros. (unlike ), Yoshi also has the most enjoyment beating the **** out of everyone since the first Smash.

Rosalina has been shown to be able to make galaxies, not become a TARDIS.

Oh, so Smash is canon but Kart isn't. Riiiiight. You seem to be twisting things in your favor here.

You just said that the lack of modelling of Rosalina's starry dress interior in Galaxy doesn't count, yet you use a glitch as an argument. Again, twisting things in your favor.

I'm pretty certain that Mario Kart is just as canon as SMB2 since it's a play. And anything can happen in a play.

 

[Munomario777]

I'm pretty certain that Mario Kart is just as canon as SMB2 since it's a play. And anything can happen in a play.

SMB2 is a dream, actually. SMB3 is the play one. Also, when is it even hinted at that Mario Kart is a play?

 

[MagiusNecros]

SMB2 is a dream, actually. SMB3 is the play one. Also, when is it even hinted at that Mario Kart is a play?

Mario Kart is Mario Kart. And all the characters play by defined rules. Even Wario and Bowser. Using hax powers won't prove you are a better racer. Just a stinker.

 

[ChikoLad]

Rosalina has been shown to be able to make galaxies, not become a TARDIS.

Oh, so Smash is canon but Kart isn't. Riiiiight. You seem to be twisting things in your favor here.

You just said that the lack of modelling of Rosalina's starry dress interior in Galaxy doesn't count, yet you use a glitch as an argument. Again, twisting things in your favor.

Well the developer of Smash himself outright said it could. But that's right, you don't listen to "Word of God", I forgot (yet I am the one twisting things).

Smash is canon because it has story elements with a definite link to various other games. Mario Kart does not, it's a party game with no given context or in-universe reason for existing. At the very least, you cannot deny that Smash has a canon. And you cannot deny that it has ties to Kid Icarus canon or real life (since people were bringing up that "R.O.B is the strongest because he saved the industry IRL" point).

I didn't use a glitch as an argument, merely to further prove something that was already proven. Rosalina's legs are implied to be fading into the universe beneath her gown:

But you can mess around with the dress physics to make it go awry, to show that the model for her legs literally is separate to her dress and that it doesn't go past the fade.

Also, I never said the MK8 thing was a glitch. It isn't. It's just a part of her they lazily modelled in because, as basic game design theory states, if something is not going to be seen by the player or is not intended to be, you generally don't model it in. Similar to how only the visible side of the various buildings in the background of a level would be modelled in. Doesn't actually mean they are supposed to be like that in-universe.

The only "in-universe", official explanation for what's under Rosalina's gown is that she has a cosmos under there. So that's what it is.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'll vouch for fading into a wormhole. Different from a blackhole. Since yo density would be crushed.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'll vouch for fading into a wormhole. Different from a blackhole. Since yo density would be crushed.

Didn't we already disclose that science and Mario do not work together?

Plus, I never said it was a black hole. It's just another universe. Like, her dress serves as a portal to another one entirely. It's like how in Kirby! Right Back At Ya!, Kirby has a universe inside his stomach.

 

[Etc_Guy]

SMB2 is a dream, actually. SMB3 is the play one. Also, when is it even hinted at that Mario Kart is a play?

I knew 3 was a play too since it was my second Mario game. 2 was mentioned to try and get Brawler to say that it wasn't. Since plays can do what ever they want, it is why Mario has spin-offs while Call 'o Duty doesn't.

Smash is canon because it has story elements with a definite link to various other games. Mario Kart does not, it's a party game with no given context or in-universe reason for existing. At the very least, you cannot deny that Smash has a canon. And you cannot deny that it has ties to Kid Icarus canon or real life (since people were bringing up that "R.O.B is the strongest because he saved the industry IRL" point).

along with 's light gun likely did get the Euros and Muricans to get the NES since the console had different controllers to use instead of just one. Don't forget that canonically saved the industry by being the villain of Super Mario Bros.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Didn't we already disclose that science and Mario do not work together?

Plus, I never said it was a black hole. It's just another universe. Like, her dress serves as a portal to another one entirely. It's like how in Kirby! Right Back At Ya!, Kirby has a universe inside his stomach.

Are you saying it leads to the Rosalina Fan Club Universe? I believe it.