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Well we already answered the who is the strongest question, and that's Rosalina and Shulk, with Sonic and Kirby being second. So I don't know what you're trying to do. If we are transitioning into character match-ups, then we are bringing the character's personalities in relation to combat into account.
You brought up in a previous post that you believed Rosalina would be the strongest without deity powers. Is that not what we're discussing with this mini-discussion here?
You still haven't shown me the contradiction. Whether we're talking abou jets or rockets, the fact is, Samus is traveling supersonic speeds. You've done nothing but committed an ignoratio elenchi. Viz., you presented a conclusion that is true for some other argument, but failed to address what I'm talking about.
Furthermore, if Samus' jet pack is more like a rocket, great. Jets and rockets fall under aerodynamics.
Contradiction:
Your post/source: "Subsonic is below Mach 0.75."
NASA: "Subsonic: Mach < 1"
Also, if they both fall under aerodynamics like you say, then NASA, which you previously said handles aerodynamics, has more of an authority in the matter.
while true, I'd say a hellish eternity inside kirby's pocket dimension constitutes "defeat". While not truly incapacitated, he has been reduced to a non threat...and more importantly non existent entity.
This is a hard question. The answer is obviously Weegee though
Seriously though we obviously have people like Ganon and Mewtwo but I don't think it's them (they rank high though). Ganondorf without the triforce isn't nearly as strong as people like Bowser while Mewtwo depends on if you look at the anime or games. If we assume that the SSB Mewtwo is the anime Mewtwo then I believe he might be the strongest, but in the games even a Pikachu or Jigglypuff can beat a Mewtwo at the same level if they use the right moves/strategy.
Maybe ? She's an actual goddess and while we never see the full extent of her power, in Uprising she can create near-invincible forcefields, shoot giant lasers that obliterate anything and she has an Army. Definitely stronger than pit (sure he managed to break the barrier, plow through the army and beat Palutena, but he needed the help of both another goddess AND a sacred/holy item. And it's obvious that Palutena did not give it her all when fighting Pit).
I also feel like gets little mention. It's spoilers, but...at the end of Xenoblade, he gains the Monado III which is outright stated to be able to destroy GODS. Sure in SSB4 he only uses the standard Monado, but that's because it's the most iconic one as well as the most logical to have in Smash (Monado II or III would destroy anyone). Shulk might be the strongest as well..........
As for the least strongest I dunno. I'd go with or maybe
I also feel like gets little mention. It's spoilers, but...at the end of Xenoblade, he gains the Monado III which is outright stated to be able to destroy GODS. Sure in SSB4 he only uses the standard Monado, but that's because it's the most iconic one as well as the most logical to have in Smash (Monado II or III would destroy anyone). Shulk might be the strongest as well..........
Contradiction:
Your post/source: "Subsonic is below Mach 0.75."
NASA: "Subsonic: Mach < 1"
Also, if they both fall under aerodynamics like you say, then NASA, which you previously said handles aerodynamics, has more of an authority in the matter.
Edit: Reason for why Rosalina can look like she's in her twenties and why she seems immortal. Thanks, MatPat. So time dilation's equation is t = t0 / sqrt(1 - (v^2 / c^2)). Let's say Rosalina is traveling 99% the speed of light in her observatory. Say Rosalina traveled 10 years at 99% c. Well, if I understand this all correctly, then it would only seem as if 10 years passed for Rosalina, but in fact, 100 years would have passed. If she traveled 100% c, then time would seem to have stopped.
Edit: Reason for why Rosalina can look like she's in her twenties and why she seems immortal. Thanks, MatPat. So time dilation's equation is t = t0 / sqrt(1 - (v^2 / c^2)). Let's say Rosalina is traveling 99% the speed of light in her observatory. Say Rosalina traveled 10 years at 99% c. Well, if I understand this all correctly, then it would only seem as if 10 years passed for Rosalina, but in fact, 100 years would have passed. If she traveled 100% c, then time would seem to have stopped.
I mentioned that is most powerful because him and his minions saved the console industry from Atari's crash. K. Rool takes the kake for kroolest and maybe most evil villain at Nintendo. is really durable (not as hardy as though,) and ludicrous strength over his franchise. Sandbag is 100% invincible an kan never die. That's most of what I've used for this thread, since the underdogs get no respect her.
"Using protection by a Great Emerald powered by the Overmind's power"
This is an event that happened once, in Sonic Chronicles. It was a one time thing. Sonic does not have access to this ability anymore, because the Overmind no longer exists to power the Emerald in the way it did.
Sonic Chronicles is arguably not canon too, since it ends on a cliffhanger, and nothing has ever come of it. Shade also disappeared off the face of the franchise. Even though she was with the team when re-entering Earth in the ending.
Sonic's ego absolutely factors into this discussion, as it has consistently been shown to effect him in combat. That's like saying Luigi's fear of ghosts shouldn't factor into a discussion about him facing one.
And "if Sonic knew" is irrelevant - Sonic doesn't know who Rosalina is. He'd be going into this fresh. And Sonic is known to underestimate his opponents unless he has established respect for them (hence why he still underestimates Eggman despite knowing him so long and what he is capable of).
Well the reason it was unfinished was due to a bunch of legal BS with EA and a former Archie Sonic writer, but this type of metaphysical talk doesn't belong here, so I digress. However, that event pcould factor into the "purity of heart" stuff that Dark Gaia felt, as Knuckles, Shadow, and Shade were controlled thru deep seated animosity toward Sonic, and Cream was not affected in the slightest, being the purity sue that she is. Also in Sonic Rivals 2, Sonic was mind controlled by Ifrit end game, so points to you.
I do with that edit you made, but what are invincible hats, overalls, and shirts (which don't cover the entire body) to a transformation that makes the user invincible, rather than a removable piece of clothing? (Not to mention the super speed, flight, and all that good stuff.)
You don't consult a math book for information on the location of the Marianas Trench, even if it's a reputable math book. Likewise, you don't consult a book about aeronautics (AKA air travel) and the like for information on a fictional character's running speed, even if it's a reputable aeronautics book. Also, the contradiction is that Mach 0.8 isn't the extent of "Mach < 1." That would be Mach 1.9999999999 etc., without accounting for the slight leeway the subsonic range allows, of course.
Anyway, I think I'm going to stop discussing this topic, since it's getting sort of off-topic at this point (discussing aeronautics vs aerodynamics in a thread about fictional character strengths).
Well the reason it was unfinished was due to a bunch of legal BS with EA and a former Archie Sonic writer, but this type of metaphysical talk doesn't belong here, so I digress. However, that event pcould factor into the "purity of heart" stuff that Dark Gaia felt, as Knuckles, Shadow, and Shade were controlled thru deep seated animosity toward Sonic, and Cream was not affected in the slightest, being the purity sue that she is. Also in Sonic Rivals 2, Sonic was mind controlled by Ifrit end game, so points to you.
The only characters who did not succumb to mind control in that fight were Sonic, Cream, Big, and Omega, and each had an obvious reason explained in the game:
Sonic - Protected by the Great Emerald
Cream - Too innocent
Big - Too simple (though he does say he gets a headache as all of this is happening, he is still in control and can fight)
Omega - He has no biological mind
Shadow, Knuckles, and Shade all had deeply bottled up jealousy towards Sonic, and Tails and Amy felt anxiety towards him in that they felt like he was growing distant (regardless of whether or not you be nice to them in their dialogue options). I can't remember how Rouge felt though, or if she was even effected.
Sonic's resistance to Dark Gaia is due to the fact that Dark Gaia's energy brings out the negative side of people. He doesn't control their minds to do his bidding, rather, being exposed to his energy means you bring out your negative side, as if having a mood swing. It doesn't even mean you become hostile either, and most of the citizens you meet don't even become that - for example, the Ice Cream Man, who's normally really happy and jolly and loves life, becomes a weeping mess when exposed to Dark Gaia's energy, and never stops lamenting the end of the world.
Basically, Dark Gaia's energy makes people come out of their shell and expose the feelings they bottle up. However, besides a bit of wild and ruthless behaviour, Sonic actually has nothing he bottles up. He is always open and honest about what he feels, so that's why Dark Gaia didn't bring out much - he simply had no bottled up feelings or regrets or anything like that, while other people did. He never loses sight of what life means to him, or of his beliefs.
Mind control is completely different - it's literally hijacking someones mind to make them carry out your will and think your thoughts - some works of fiction even depict characters performing what's known as a "double reach-around", in which someone performs mind control of another person, and gets that person to perform mind control on someone else, almost like spreading the original caster's mind across a network of minds.
Link's the only one who can kill him but I think it's worth mentioning that in many Zelda games Ganondorf/Ganon can actually be injured (just not killed) by Link's non-Master Sword/Light Arrows/Silver Arrows. So only Link and a few others could ring him out but I don't think it's impossible for some of the stronger characters to win by ringout or possibly knock him unconscious.
Link's the only one who can kill him but I think it's worth mentioning that in many Zelda games Ganondorf/Ganon can actually be injured (just not killed) by Link's non-Master Sword/Light Arrows/Silver Arrows. So only Link and a few others could ring him out but I don't think it's impossible for some of the stronger characters to win by ringout or possibly knock him unconscious.
But other characters can do things to Ganondorf that would basically count as a defeat anyway:
-Rosalina: Leave him floating powerlessly in a zero gravity state/space pocket/mind control/make like Mr. Slave from South Park and jump on top of him to stuff him under the universe beneath her gown, etc.
-Kirby: Inhale him, especially with Hypernova.
-Shulk: Could likely survive an indefinite amount of time against him due to his visions, enough time for him to figure out some more definite way of dealing with him (IDK all of Shulk's abilities so I'm not going to say).
-Sonic: Could survive an indefinite amount of time against him using his speed, and assuming he has his Super form, he can deal with him that way. He would be invincible, so Sonic could probably just drag Ganondorf to a place he cannot feasibly do anything with, like the bare areas of space.
Also I'm pretty sure Silver Arrows and the Master Sword only do what they do because of the power they have inside them. If that is simply something like holy power, than Pit and Palutena also kill him easily with the abilities and weapons at their disposal (also the Chaos Emeralds are considered a holy power too).
But other characters can do things to Ganondorf that would basically count as a defeat anyway:
-Rosalina: Leave him floating powerlessly in a zero gravity state/space pocket/mind control/make like Mr. Slave from South Park and jump on top of him to stuff him under the universe beneath her gown, etc.
-Kirby: Inhale him, especially with Hypernova.
-Shulk: Could likely survive an indefinite amount of time against him due to his visions, enough time for him to figure out some more definite way of dealing with him (IDK all of Shulk's abilities so I'm not going to say).
-Sonic: Could survive an indefinite amount of time against him using his speed, and assuming he has his Super form, he can deal with him that way. He would be invincible, so Sonic could probably just drag Ganondorf to a place he cannot feasibly do anything with, like the bare areas of space.
Also I'm pretty sure Silver Arrows and the Master Sword only do what they do because of the power they have inside them. If that is simply something like holy power, than Pit and Palutena also kill him easily with the abilities and weapons at their disposal (also the Chaos Emeralds are considered a holy power too).
But if Rosie was all powerful then why she bring lumas to get punched, kicked, burnt, shocked, and sliced if they aren't needed?
Even if smash isn't canon can anything can? No. Will she ever? No! Wario is too good for god powers. Why? Muscle, is there more to be said? Could she stand thy K. Roolness of the King? What do you expect from a caretaker of innocent creatures?
Im pretty certain that Mario canon order is from the first game to the latest, so that means even Daisy is older than her.
Here's a good question to everyone. Why did you all ignore my post about being responsible for saving the industry?
But if Rosie was all powerful then why she bring lumas to get punched, kicked, burnt, shocked, and sliced if they aren't needed?
Even if smash isn't canon can anything can? No. Will she ever? No! Wario is too good for god powers. Why? Muscle, is there more to be said? Could she stand thy K. Roolness of the King? What do you expect from a caretaker of innocent creatures?
Im pretty certain that Mario canon order is from the first game to the latest, so that means even Daisy is older than her.
Here's a good question to everyone. Why did you all ignore my post about being responsible for saving the industry?
Rosalina brings Lumas in because she isn't a god character in Smash.
Rosalina can do more than Wario can. Also, muscle is a power.
Sonic came in a game before Shadow, yet Shadow was canonically created about 40 or so years before Sonic was born. Being introduced in an earlier game =/= being older canonically.
@Etc_Guy
: I've been holding off on this for a while, and I realise you may be a younger user so I will not be harsh about this, but your constant obsessing over Wario and K.Rool because "MUSCLES ANSWER EVERYTHING" is getting rather tiresome and is not adding anything to the discussion.
At the very least, if you are going to quote my posts in particular in the future, please make sure they are something more constructive than stating yet again how Wario is so great because he has muscles and how he is better than everyone because of that (Ike is much more statue-esque anyway).
Because in all honesty, it just makes it sound like you have a thing for characters with huge muscles, which is fine, but it should not be the sole drive behind your posts here.
You aren't actually proving anything about Rosalina or anyone else being weak (and I've already made a point of how she has demonstrated physical strength in Mario Kart 8 anyway, if that's where you want to go - also, Sonic does have super strength), so there is no point in you screaming that at me every time you quote me. It's making it very tiring to see alerts from this thread.
Edit: Reason for why Rosalina can look like she's in her twenties and why she seems immortal. Thanks, MatPat. So time dilation's equation is t = t0 / sqrt(1 - (v^2 / c^2)). Let's say Rosalina is traveling 99% the speed of light in her observatory. Say Rosalina traveled 10 years at 99% c. Well, if I understand this all correctly, then it would only seem as if 10 years passed for Rosalina, but in fact, 100 years would have passed. If she traveled 100% c, then time would seem to have stopped.
Only problem with this is that there is actually no reference for how fast Rosalina travels in the Observatory, and it definitely does not appear to be anything close to the speed of light. I also couldn't see her moving quickly in the Observatory that often, as it likely stops by in numerous places, not to mention she has to look after the Lumas at some point, and I doubt that could be done when travelling at the speed of light.
...I think trying to apply real life science to Rosalina's age doesn't work, as it's clear the developers disregard it in this fantasy game.
Rosalina honestly just seems ageless and immortal altogether, which makes sense, given her role as "watcher and protector of the cosmos", and given how she holds the responsibility of giving birth to the next universe. There's also no guarantee the same laws of science would apply in each new universe (if you want to believe the Mario verse would even function on any real science to begin with).
@Etc_Guy
: I've been holding off on this for a while, and I realise you may be a younger user so I will not be harsh about this, but your constant obsessing over Wario and K.Rool because "MUSCLES ANSWER EVERYTHING" is getting rather tiresome and is not adding anything to the discussion.
At the very least, if you are going to quote my posts in particular in the future, please make sure they are something more constructive than stating yet again how Wario is so great because he has muscles and how he is better than everyone because of that (Ike is much more statue-esque anyway).
Because in all honesty, it just makes it sound like you have a thing for characters with huge muscles, which is fine, but it should not be the sole drive behind your posts here.
You aren't actually proving anything about Rosalina or anyone else being weak (and I've already made a point of how she has demonstrated physical strength in Mario Kart 8 anyway, if that's where you want to go - also, Sonic does have super strength), so there is no point in you screaming that at me every time you quote me. It's making it very tiring to see alerts from this thread.
Only problem with this is that there is actually no reference for how fast Rosalina travels in the Observatory, and it definitely does not appear to be anything close to the speed of light. I also couldn't see her moving quickly in the Observatory that often, as it likely stops by in numerous places, not to mention she has to look after the Lumas at some point, and I doubt that could be done when travelling at the speed of light.
...I think trying to apply real life science to Rosalina's age doesn't work, as it's clear the developers disregard it in this fantasy game.
Rosalina honestly just seems ageless and immortal altogether, which makes sense, given her role as "watcher and protector of the cosmos", and given how she holds the responsibility of giving birth to the next universe. There's also no guarantee the same laws of science would apply in each new universe (if you want to believe the Mario verse would even function on any real science to begin with).
Wario is stronger than Rosie since he's been around longer and actually have strength and has the best canon ship you can have. x.
For the Krok king, he doesn't have a K in front of Rool for no reason. Kould stand loved ones being tortured for ruining his plans? I doubt it.
Saying I'm obsessed with certain kharacters is weird since i defended , Sandbag, ,,., , and /. Rosie just hasn't been a savor of industry like The Koopa King or gone against a mad everything like K. Rool and win, nor be a lifter like a greedy fat man.
EDIT: I even supported Spongebob, Patrick, and Plankton.
By punch i meant that those three would probably knock out (but not kill) because of their insane strength. (Don't forget when fought .)
No, I was making a joke out of you being what is probably the 10th person to come to this thread saying "GUYS I DON'T SEE WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT ROSALINA I TURNED MY BRAIN OFF WHILE PLAYING THE GAMES SHE IS IN AND I CAN'T READ THREADS".
Also the fact that Rosalina can be even remotely average. Even without knowing the full extent of what she can do (though technically we actually don't), she is still clearly anything but "average".
I am not repeating myself again, so you can just go back through the thread and piece together what you can if you must.
For the Krok king, he doesn't have a K in front of Rool for no reason. Kould stand loved ones being tortured for ruining his plans? I doubt it.
I don't even understand what you are trying to say from any angle.
Rosie just hasn't been a savor of industry like The Koopa King or gone against a mad everything like K. Rool and win, nor be a lifter like a greedy fat man.
Again, I don't understand what this is meant to say.
That's another thing, please work on the sentence structure.
I ignore a lot of your posts because half of the time they either don't make English sense, nor do they seem to be coherently involved in this discussion.
Now to provide images and what not of all of those abilities of Rosalina I pointed out before, where I can, and a more detailed explanation where I can get no image:
Platforming Prowess & Spin Attack
Protective Shield
She also does it in the Galaxy games when you attempt to jump, spin, or shoot Star Bits at her.
Teleportation
Also, see her roll animation in Smash.
Control over gravity
I don't know where I can find a video of an LPer doing it in Galaxy so I can't provide an image in this, but most people know how when you jump off the Observatory in Galaxy, Rosalina pulls you back to safety. Also, her control over gravity is implemented into her Smash moveset in a few different ways, such as her down special, "Gravitational Pull".
Self levitation and flight
We all know how she generally levitates for her "standing" animation in pretty much every game she's in. No need to explain that part.
For flight though:
Can create doppelgangers of herself (Cosmic Spirit)
I want to go into some detail on this point:
Some people like to claim that the "Cosmic Spirit" is not actually Rosalina, and instead is Rosalina's equivalent to "Cosmic Mario/Luigi". These guys are the result of Prankster Comets causing havok.
However, three key things disprove that theory, and prove it's actually Rosalina:
1) The Cosmic Spirit doesn't show up when Prankster Comets are present, it appears independently of them. It specifically shows up when Mario is struggling in his mission, and offers assistance. Cosmic Mario, on the other hand, only shows up when a Prankster Comet is present, and is mischievous and wants to get in Mario's way.
2) Compare the appearance of Cosmic Mario with the Cosmic Spirit:
Cosmic Mario is completely featureless, and it's even difficult to differentiate it's clothing.
The Cosmic Spirit is more clearly shaped like Rosalina. And notice how it has Rosalina's genuine crown, earrings, broach, and wand. Not only that, but it, again, only seeks to help Mario, like a friend.
3) Cosmic Mario speaks gibberish, and has an extremely high pitched, distorted voice. He sounds absolutely nothing like Mario. However, the Cosmic Spirit can speak proper English:
Not only that, but it's voice clips are identical to Rosalina's voice. Has the same echo Rosalina's voice has and all (something Cosmic Mario does not have).
--------------------
The only conclusion that can be drawn is that Cosmic Mario is an abomination - an unnatural, inaccurate clone of Mario. He has a completely off personality, voice, and rough appearance.
The Cosmic Spirit, on the other hand, is a deliberate clone, and even features Rosalina's genuine accessories. And since we know she possesses control over cosmic elements, it's not far fetched to believe it was her who made it. Who else would have made such an accurate clone, featuring her seemingly real accessories?
Mind control
Since we've already disclosed that the Cosmic Spirit is indeed a clone of Rosalina created by herself, that means the Cosmic Spirit's manner of helping Mario - taking control of his mind to help him where he fails - is an ability Rosalina has command over.
Can change size at will
Control over the universe's rebirth
The visual implications of Mario Galaxy's endings are pretty clear cut, so I'm not going to explain that.
Instead, I will make the assumption that Rosalina is not in control of the rebirth of the universe. Now, let's talk about the gaping plot holes that come from such a viewpoint:
-Rosalina herself states that whenever the universe is reborn, "the cycle repeats itself, but never in quite the same way.". If this is the case, why is it that Rosalina herself, and everything she cherishes, remains unchanged? Why does specifically everything related to her remain the same after the universe's rebirth (this includes Mario and his friends)? If you believe this is a completely natural, indiscriminate process that Rosalina has absolutely no control over, how do you explain Rosalina and her most dearest friends and locations remain completely unchanged?
-Rosalina's knowledge of this cycle in the first place proves that this isn't the first time she's been through it, and that she hasn't lost her memory from universe rebirth to rebirth.
-Whether you want to believe Rosalina is a goddess or not, she describes herself as "watcher and protector of the cosmos". That's a pretty important role. It seems a bit uncharacteristic for someone of such a position, to be left to the whim of a natural, indiscriminate process, therefore, potentially losing this role and having it passed on to someone less suitable (or nobody at all). Which could potentially leave the next incarnation of the universe in an unruly state.
-She willingly lets this process happen. As if she has confidence things will be fine in the next universe, that things won't be out of hand, and that she will still be there to watch over the cosmos. If she had no control over the process, she would not display such confidence, especially since Lumas are essentially dying as all of this is happening, and potentially Mario's friends too. We outright watch as everything turns to nothing, while a small, contained area with Rosalina and Mario exists, and later, Mario finds himself waking up from an unconscious state, along with everyone else - except Rosalina, who is conscious throughout this entire process. Another hint she drops is when she says, "Yes....all life carries the essence of stars...even all of you...". All life carries the essence of stars. Rosalina has control over cosmic elements and a whole lot more. Stars are a cosmic element. Anything that contains it's essence is something Rosalina can control the creation of.
People really can't read huh? They just grab whatever comment they see and try to sound like they know something when they don't.
Link, Rosalina, Sonic, Shulk, people have mentioned here over and over WHY they're powerful or why Rosalina would be considered a goddess or why Link would be able to win against certain characters or why Sonic can speedblitz everyone or why can Shulk literally wave his Monado and wave good bye to the universe.
Just please read a little bit, it's not a hard thing to do.
What I'm getting from this thread so far is Rosalina is better than almost everyone with Shulk being the most OP character because he has godlike powers and even slayed a god. Ganondorf can only be defeated by Link using a Master Sword or Silver Arrow, so I'm wondering what Rosalina or Shulk can do. It's possible that Ganondorf can be defeated by Shulk, but we'll never know because Shulk doesn't exist in Zelda canon, so they can't make it canon that Ganondorf can be defeated by anything outside of Master Sword or Silver Arrow. If we based a lot of matchups on fan theory, then Ganondorf can be defeated by Shulk, Palutena, Pit, and Ike because they have god powers/weapons but may also be neutralized by Rosalina and maybe some other characters I can't think of at the moment. The Monado and Vision could probably counter anything Rosalina has, or whatever any character has for that matter. Then again, I never played Xenoblade, so I don't know if there are any limits to the usage of the Monado or Vision.
If I'm reading posts correctly, Shulk>everyone, and there's a debate about Rosalina being more powerful than everyone else as well. I've seen arguments about Rosalina being a goddess above the tier Palutena is in because Palutena has to be saved by Pit. If she were that powerful, she could have settled the whole plot of Mario Galaxy by herself. However, she doesn't because we need Mario to do it to sell the game. That logic could also be used on Palutena then because we need Pit to sell the game.
Ness beat Giygas with the help of his friends, so I think Ness should be up there somewhere.
What I'm getting from this thread so far is Rosalina is better than almost everyone with Shulk being the most OP character because he has godlike powers and even slayed a god. Ganondorf can only be defeated by Link using a Master Sword or Silver Arrow, so I'm wondering what Rosalina or Shulk can do. It's possible that Ganondorf can be defeated by Shulk, but we'll never know because Shulk doesn't exist in Zelda canon, so they can't make it canon that Ganondorf can be defeated by anything outside of Master Sword or Silver Arrow. If we based a lot of matchups on fan theory, then Ganondorf can be defeated by Shulk, Palutena, Pit, and Ike because they have god powers/weapons but may also be neutralized by Rosalina and maybe some other characters I can't think of at the moment. The Monado and Vision could probably counter anything Rosalina has, or whatever any character has for that matter. Then again, I never played Xenoblade, so I don't know if there are any limits to the usage of the Monado or Vision.
If I'm reading posts correctly, Shulk>everyone, and there's a debate about Rosalina being more powerful than everyone else as well. I've seen arguments about Rosalina being a goddess above the tier Palutena is in because Palutena has to be saved by Pit. If she were that powerful, she could have settled the whole plot of Mario Galaxy by herself. However, she doesn't because we need Mario to do it to sell the game. That logic could also be used on Palutena then because we need Pit to sell the game.
Ness beat Giygas with the help of his friends, so I think Ness should be up there somewhere.
go after them for being emeralds.
(Not to mention the super speed, flight, and all that good stuff.)
