Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[ChikoLad]

Think about it. Why do people get money? To trade it. The Lumas kind of ate it, so that's out of the question. Food is a good method of pay, maybe not in our society, but it could be accepted as the standard in the Lumas' society. Note how he says "morsels." You wouldn't eat currency. You would eat food, which is a source of energy. Sure, they act as a currency gameplay-wise, but that doesn't mean the Lumas don't consume them for energy. I'd imagine dessert (they taste sweet like honey and it's their favorite food) would be a "privilege" to the Lumas, and come to think of it, the transformation process sort of resembles a sugar rush: transforming (the energy burst) and then turning into a stationary galaxy/planet (the "tired out" period afterwards).

Except Lumas can regenerate Star Bits. It's literally an attack in Smash Bros. And the Co-Star Luma also generates them as a mechanic, and can shoot them too, just like in Smash Bros.

Point is, we have a literal instance in where the things are described as a currency, and that is how they function mechanically. However, we have no instances of them being referred to as "fuel" (and if they are delectable, they are not an essential food source, merely a privilege to have, like money, candy, or even recreational drugs), and they never function as fuel mechanically.

This would be like saying Rupees are fuel.

 

[Munomario777]

Except Lumas can remake Star Bits. It's literally an attack in Smash Bros. And the Co-Star Luma also generates them as a mechanic, and can shoot them too, just like in Smash Bros.

Point is, we have a literal instance in where the things are described as a currency, and that is how they function mechanically. However, we have no instances of them being referred to as "fuel" (and if they are delectable, they are not an essential food source, merely a privilege to have, like money, candy, or even recreational drugs), and they never function as fuel mechanically.

This would be like saying Rupees are fuel.

Smash attacks aren't canon unless they are an extension of a canon ability. Lumas can't produce Star Bits; they can only shoot the ones that have in reserve as projectiles, and the Co-Star is likely "shaking" the Star Bits out of the other Lumas' reserve, since I believe you can only do it once per Luma (haven't used the feature in a while though). They're infinite in Smash because projectiles in Smash pretty much never have ammo limits; that's Robin's gimmick.

You didn't post an instance in which they were described as a currency. They were described as a fee, which can mean paying in anything, whether it be water, food, fuel, currency, or anything else. You're forgetting the thing that gives energy and tastes good: natural/healthy food. Again, if Lumas can get energy from Star Bits, then it would make sense that their bodies would register it as a good feeling. They function as the energy/fuel needed to transform into an entire galaxy.

Link doesn't eat Rupees.

 

[TheRagingGamer]

best mario character dr mario, best zelda character toon link, best pokemon greninja

 

[Munomario777]

in 64 im best with ness, then capt. falcon, then link
in melee im best with dr. mario, then young link, then ness
in brawl im best with lucas, toon link, then sonic
in project m its gannondorf, toon link, then lucas
in smash 4 its capt. falcon, then bowser jr, then shulk

The topic isn't to discuss mains. It's to discuss which character is the best in their own canon (their own games).

 

[ChikoLad]

Smash attacks aren't canon unless they are an extension of a canon ability. Lumas can't produce Star Bits; they can only shoot the ones that have in reserve as projectiles, and the Co-Star is likely "shaking" the Star Bits out of the other Lumas' reserve, since I believe you can only do it once per Luma (haven't used the feature in a while though). They're infinite in Smash because projectiles in Smash pretty much never have ammo limits; that's Robin's gimmick.

You didn't post an instance in which they were described as a currency. They were described as a fee, which can mean paying in anything, whether it be water, food, fuel, currency, or anything else. You're forgetting the thing that gives energy and tastes good: natural/healthy food. Again, if Lumas can get energy from Star Bits, then it would make sense that their bodies would register it as a good feeling. They function as the energy/fuel needed to transform into an entire galaxy.

Link doesn't eat Rupees.

As I said before, the Co-Star Luma (and by extension, any Luma, as his abilities are the same as any Luma) can create Star Bits. Much like how Mario can make them appear out of many random objects when he spins (powered by Young Master Luma), the Luma can too. And unique to the Luma, there are red butterflies that generate three Star Bits when he spins around them. So the Smash ability is an extension of the ability in Galaxy.

And you are forgetting that the Luma Shops (i.e. a place where one trades currency) also accept Star Bits as currency, not just Polari. We constantly use these things as currency in the game, so naturally, that's what they are. Again, Lumas can eat them, but they are not an energy source as such, they are just a treat that they find a privilege to eat. It's not an energy source, it's their cocaine.

As in, the way Lumas treat Star Bits is identical to recreational drugs - they are a consumable that provides a good feeling, but also used as a currency.

 

[TheRagingGamer]

The topic isn't to discuss mains. It's to discuss which character is the best in their own canon (their own games).

ok sry ill change it

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

As I said before, the Co-Star Luma (and by extension, any Luma, as his abilities are the same as any Luma) can create Star Bits. Much like how Mario can make them appear out of many random objects when he spins (powered by Young Master Luma), the Luma can too. And unique to the Luma, there are red butterflies that generate three Star Bits when he spins around them. So the Smash ability is an extension of the ability in Galaxy.

And you are forgetting that the Luma Shops (i.e. a place where one trades currency) also accept Star Bits as currency, not just Polari. We constantly use these things as currency in the game, so naturally, that's what they are. Again, Lumas can eat them, but they are not an energy source as such, they are just a treat that they find a privilege to eat. It's not an energy source, it's their cocaine.

As in, the way Lumas treat Star Bits is identical to recreational drugs - they are a consumable that provides a good feeling, but also used as a currency.

it's their cocaine.

And yet, Mario Galaxy is rated E for Everyone :D

 

[Munomario777]

As I said before, the Co-Star Luma (and by extension, any Luma, as his abilities are the same as any Luma) can create Star Bits. Much like how Mario can make them appear out of many random objects when he spins (powered by Young Master Luma), the Luma can too. And unique to the Luma, there are red butterflies that generate three Star Bits when he spins around them. So the Smash ability is an extension of the ability in Galaxy.

And you are forgetting that the Luma Shops (i.e. a place where one trades currency) also accept Star Bits as currency, not just Polari. We constantly use these things as currency in the game, so naturally, that's what they are. Again, Lumas can eat them, but they are not an energy source as such, they are just a treat.

Finding Star Bits in objects is different from generating them. If I find a coin hidden in a bush, that doesn't mean that I can generate them at will. The spin shook the Star Bits out of the object.

A shop doesn't necessarily mean currency; depending on the shop, I could trade in something, rather than buying it. And again, using Star Bits (energy) to pay for something could be the Lumas' form of a pseudo-currency in their culture, except that it's one-time-use only for paying for something.

 

[ChikoLad]

And yet, Mario Galaxy is rated E for Everyone :D

Of course, that is half a joke, but it is true - there are real world examples of things that are used as currency, yet are also a consumable.

Finding Star Bits in objects is different from generating them. If I find a coin hidden in a bush, that doesn't mean that I can generate them at will. The spin shook the Star Bits out of the object.

A shop doesn't necessarily mean currency; depending on the shop, I could trade in something, rather than buying it. And again, using Star Bits (energy) to pay for something could be the Lumas' form of a pseudo-currency in their culture, except that it's one-time-use only for paying for something.

I'm not talking about finding them in objects, I'm talking about those instances where they literally appear out of thin air. Such as the stone circles you can spin inside, them constantly falling out of nowhere, etc.

Lumas have been seen generating the things multiple times, so it's an ability they have. And Rosalina can generate them.

It should also be noted that the baby Luma Rosalina first meets states that he loves Star Bits because "they remind me of my mama". So whoever the Luma's mama was before Rosalina, could probably produce them.

Such as an adult Luma (there are distinguished adult Lumas in Polari and Lubba).

 

[Munomario777]

Of course, that is half a joke, but it is true - there are real world examples of things that are used as currency, yet are also a consumable.

Which is what the Star Bits function as, except they are actually beneficial to the Lumas' health/give them energy.

 

[ChikoLad]

Which is what the Star Bits function as, except they are actually beneficial to the Lumas' health/give them energy.

That's never been stated. See above for the reason a Luma might love Star Bits.

 

[Munomario777]

Of course, that is half a joke, but it is true - there are real world examples of things that are used as currency, yet are also a consumable.



I'm not talking about finding them in objects, I'm talking about those instances where they literally appear out of thin air. Such as the stone circles you can spin inside, them constantly falling out of nowhere, etc.

Lumas have been seen generating the things multiple times, so it's an ability they have. And Rosalina can generate them.

It should also be noted that the baby Luma Rosalina first meets states that he loves Star Bits because "they remind me of my mama". So whoever the Luma's mama was before Rosalina, could probably produce them.

Such as an adult Luma (there are distinguished adult Lumas in Polari and Lubba).

The rocks go away, and under them, what do you find? Star Bits! The Lumas don't cause the Star Bits falling from the sky; they just fall.

When did they generate them exactly?

Yes, but the Luma's mama isn't involved in this battle. Just because the "mama" Luma was an adult doesn't mean all adult Lumas can produce them, not to mention that it's never mentioned that the "mama" can produce them in the first place; it's likely she just gave them to her child, much like a mother on Earth gives her child healthy food, which tastes good and gives energy.

 

[ChikoLad]

The rocks don't go away, the Star Bits just pop out. And how does spinning just make them pop out anyway, unless it generates them.

Not to mention all of the other times they just randomly appear for doing something in a level (as in, activating a switch or accomplishing a task).

When did they generate them exactly?

The red butterflies can be spun specifically by Luma to generate Star Bits, Smash, Polari's tutorial, etc.

 

[Munomario777]

The rocks don't go away, the Star Bits just pop out. And how does spinning just make them pop out anyway, unless it generates them.

Not to mention all of the other times they just randomly appear for doing something in a level (as in, activating a switch or accomplishing a task).



The red butterflies can be spun specifically by Luma to generate Star Bits, Smash, Polari's tutorial, etc.

The spinning shatters them, revealing the Star Bits inside. (I know it's seashells, but the same thing applies.)

Again, how are Lumas involved in the switches? The Star Bits in levels are just a feature of the levels, not a trait of the Lumas.

The butterflies are another example of Star Bits hidden inside something, Smash isn't canon, and the tutorial has Star Bits appear in the same way as the level ones do (popping in), meaning that they're likely a feature of the Observatory, and besides, a gameplay tutorial isn't something to base a character's abilities off of without other supporting evidence. Also, if they could actually generate Star Bits, why do they need Mario to feed them?

 

[ChikoLad]

The spinning shatters them, revealing the Star Bits inside. (I know it's seashells, but the same thing applies.)

Again, how are Lumas involved in the switches? The Star Bits in levels are just a feature of the levels, not a trait of the Lumas.

The butterflies are another example of Star Bits hidden inside something, Smash isn't canon, and the tutorial has Star Bits appear in the same way as the level ones do (popping in), meaning that they're likely a feature of the Observatory, and besides, a gameplay tutorial isn't something to base a character's abilities off of without other supporting evidence. Also, if they could actually generate Star Bits, why do they need Mario to feed them?

I never said they could generate Star Bits willy nilly, as there clearly is a limit (the butterflies are an example - there is no way the Star Bits were hidden inside the butterflies, they are physically bigger than the butterflies).

But Polari straight up generates those Star Bits. He presses no buttons to activate any Observatory systems, or anything. He straight up makes them appear.

I think Lumas generate Star Bits based on taking them, but eating two Star Bits is enough for them to generate one or something. There is a basis for that in Polari's tutorial, in that he gets you to feed him more than what he gives you, and then describes it as a fee.

That's why it's more like a currency, they require more to generate less. An apt display of capitalism, really.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Bowser can just say no and he's back for Round 2. So him.

 

[ChikoLad]

Bowser can just say no and he's back for Round 2. So him.

I can think of at least 10 other characters on the Smash roster who can do that.

Literally, I just counted.

 

[Munomario777]

I never said they could generate Star Bits willy nilly, as there clearly is a limit (the butterflies are an example - there is no way the Star Bits were hidden inside the butterflies, they are physically bigger than the butterflies).

But Polari straight up generates those Star Bits. He presses no buttons to activate any Observatory systems, or anything. He straight up makes them appear.

I think Lumas generate Star Bits based on taking them, but eating two Star Bits is enough for them to generate one or something. There is a basis for that in Polari's tutorial, in that he gets you to feed him more than what he gives you, and then describes it as a fee.

That's why it's more like a currency, they require more to generate less. An apt display of capitalism, really.

Well, popcorn can hide the entire puffy, white bit inside a little kernel, so it's possible that the butterflies could hide Bits inside.

Mario often doesn't press a button to activate Star Bits in levels, since they often appear for other objectives, as you said earlier.

I was thinking you meant they could generate them at will. What you described sounds more like Star Bit storage, and every two, one would be used for energy, and the other one is put in reserve to use later (that would explain why only one comes out for every two that would go in). I could see that, but I think the second Bit, in the case of the Hungry/Shop Lumas, would be put towards the Luma's ability to TRANSFOOOOORM!!! rather than put in reserve, since I'd imagine it would require extra energy.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I can think of at least 10 other characters on the Smash roster who can do that.

Literally, I just counted.

If I want to be realistic it's a toss up between Rosalina, Kirby. Rosalina can do a lot of Universey stuff but then Kirby is a Eldritch Abomination to the point some of the stuff he does is ridiculous. To the point of destroying the souls of some of the nasties he has to fight against. Despite being ridiculously small.

 

[Munomario777]

If I want to be realistic it's a toss up between Rosalina, Kirby. Rosalina can do a lot of Universey stuff but then Kirby is a Eldritch Abomination to the point some of the stuff he does is ridiculous. To the point of destroying the souls of some of the nasties he has to fight against. Despite being ridiculously small.

You're forgetting and ; the former has deity powers and the latter has time/space manipulation, invincibility, super speed, agility, and a bunch of other things (the first two are thanks to the Chaos Emeralds).

 

[Crystanium]

Oops, that was meant to say "less." Edited. The Lumas might be programmed to enjoy Star Bits, since they get energy from them, similar to how we humans enjoy eating healthy foods. Also, the resource thing is my point exactly. The Lumas need more fuel to make galaxies, which usually consist of multiple planets.

Source

Your Wikipedia reference contradicted the NASA definitions of the words. NASA > Wikipedia. A book on aeronautics (air travel) doesn't have authority on the running speed of a space suit-equipped human being, especially when NASA and the English language contradict it. Samus is not a plane. She is a human being in a specially-equipped space suit, running on the ground.

You haven't shown any contradiction. NASA works on aerodynamics, meaning if you ignore my last post, you should ignore NASA. Samus is capable of flight. Using the Speed Booster allows Samus to shinespark up, diagonally, or forward, meaning she can fly in any of those directions, so it applies.

Besides, there are vehicles that can travel the speed of sound on ground. The only difference is Samus is on foot. Stop playing semantics.

 

[MagiusNecros]

You're forgetting and ; the former has deity powers and the latter has time/space manipulation, invincibility, super speed, agility, and a bunch of other things (the first two are thanks to the Chaos Emeralds).

Yeah I did forget about Shulk.

 

[Munomario777]

You haven't shown any contradiction. NASA works on aerodynamics, meaning if you ignore my last post, you should ignore NASA. Samus is capable of flight. Using the Speed Booster allows Samus to shinespark up, diagonally, or forward, meaning she can fly in any of those directions, so it applies.

Besides, there are vehicles that can travel the speed of sound on ground. The only difference is Samus is on foot. Stop playing semantics.

We're discussing her "dashing at supersonic speeds." The shinespark is out of the question. Also, the article in question is about rockets. Take a look at this image of Samus using the Speed Booster in Other M:

Spoiler

Wait, what are those lit-up, green-looking things on her back? Well, this image should clarify:

Spoiler

Yeah, it's the mechanisms on the Power Suit's back that propel her forward. Must be jets, right? Nope, jets have an intake on the front, which isn't the case here. So, what type of engine propels something forward without a frontal intake?

A rocket engine. AKA the thing the NASA article is talking about. Also, aerodynamics is the way air flows around an object, not flying planes and such.

I'm not playing semantics. I'm pointing out that two of your sources contradict each other, that being the Pilot's Encyclopedia and the NASA article. Since they contradict, the subjects they discuss (air travel and aerodynamics respectively) must use different thresholds for the terms in question.

 

[ChikoLad]

Well, popcorn can hide the entire puffy, white bit inside a little kernel, so it's possible that the butterflies could hide Bits inside.

Mario often doesn't press a button to activate Star Bits in levels, since they often appear for other objectives, as you said earlier.

I was thinking you meant they could generate them at will. What you described sounds more like Star Bit storage, and every two, one would be used for energy, and the other one is put in reserve to use later (that would explain why only one comes out for every two that would go in). I could see that, but I think the second Bit, in the case of the Hungry/Shop Lumas, would be put towards the Luma's ability to TRANSFOOOOORM!!! rather than put in reserve, since I'd imagine it would require extra energy.

That's because heat causes expansion of the white puffy material. It's actually smaller before you heat the popcorn, and simply grows out of the kernel thereafter. Heat makes things expand, cold makes them contract. Except with water, it expands at freezing temperature (hence, when you fill a glass with water and freeze it, it shatters).

And no, the spin move does not have any temperature associated properties, it has a gravitational effect.

Yes, but Polari accomplishes no such objective. He just waves his hand and suddenly Star Bits.

But anyway, this has spun off into all sorts.

Point is, even if you assume Rosalina has no deity responsibilities and is mortal, she can effectively make herself immortal using Lumas' services. Even if you believe Lumas use Star Bits as fuel, they are not hard to come by, especially for someone like Rosalina who has control over the stars (and probably has lots of them in the Observatory). And even without that, she is still very well protected and she'd basically have to intentionally let you hit her to get a hit in, thanks to her protective barrier, Gravitational Pull, flight, and warp abilities. Flight and warp also grant her unlimited mobility (and even in Smash she is portrayed with above average walk and dash speed, even if only a little bit, so mobility is there too. Also she has the best mobility in 3D World, thanks to the spin, and is also always a heavy in Mario Kart - so mobility is something you would associate with Rosalina even if you take away her warp and flight abilities). She could use her gravity manipulation and mind control to bend opponents to her will both physically and mentally. And for straight up offense, see all of her Smash normals and the Spin Attack, and for larger scale moves - summoning shooting stars, using Power Stars to devastating effect (which probably means the Grand Stars are even MORE devastating when she uses them offensively), commanding the Comet Observatory (she doesn't actually need to stand on it to use it), generating Cosmic Spirit duplicates, getting an army of Lumas to fight for her, etc.

She's honestly a bit broken in combat. The gravity and mind control are all she really needs, the rest is overkill.

If I want to be realistic it's a toss up between Rosalina, Kirby. Rosalina can do a lot of Universey stuff but then Kirby is a Eldritch Abomination to the point some of the stuff he does is ridiculous. To the point of destroying the souls of some of the nasties he has to fight against. Despite being ridiculously small.

What I meant was that there are other characters besides Bowser who can survive all sorts, due to gifted states/armour/power/abilities, or sheer stubbornness, durability, and willpower.

These guys would include:

 

[Etc_Guy]

There is probably a reason why she cares a wand and care for the lumas.

Anyway, forget K. Rool. is most powerful. Without him and Green wouldn't be the savor of the Mushroom Kingdom and take a job as a doctor. Bad things happen when history doesn't go is right direction, examples include:

Daisy might still be a hostage of Tatanga, wouldn't be greedy, wouldn't be a coward, wouldn't recognized the Mario crew, never existed if World 1-1 didn't happen, won't have a system to be compatible with, would be with the lumas all her life and be absent in every game ever. can't play damsel, and Smithy could take over the world when he wants to.

Don't forget that just about everyone else, and the CONSOLE INDUSTRY would never exist after the 83 crash if simply never took power of the Koopas.

I think I got everyone at, "Bowser is the savor of all video games."

SO what happens when you pit two invincible characters against each-other....nothing? Unlike classic "invincible charachters" cough superman cough we don't really have a measuring stick for the limits of their invincibility.

The only truly invincible ones here are ,, and when yarn.

You haven't shown any contradiction. NASA works on aerodynamics, meaning if you ignore my last post, you should ignore NASA. Samus is capable of flight. Using the Speed Booster allows Samus to shinespark up, diagonally, or forward, meaning she can fly in any of those directions, so it applies.

Besides, there are vehicles that can travel the speed of sound on ground. The only difference is Samus is on foot. Stop playing semantics.

Gravity? Who gives a crap about gravity?

If I want to be realistic it's a toss up between Rosalina, Kirby. Rosalina can do a lot of Universey stuff but then Kirby is a Eldritch Abomination to the point some of the stuff he does is ridiculous. To the point of destroying the souls of some of the nasties he has to fight against. Despite being ridiculously small.

My toss ups are , for all the damage he's taken over the series and always come back for more. , for his ridiculous strength and insane durability in Wario Land 2 and 3. And all the Kongs for standing up against the most realistic villain at Nintendo if bad guys count.

What I meant was that there are other characters besides Bowser who can survive all sorts, due to gifted states/armour/power/abilities, or sheer stubbornness, durability, and willpower.

These guys would include:

can soak damage like a sponge in most of his games with nothing but his motivations. In a platformer.

That's because heat causes expansion of the white puffy material. It's actually smaller before you heat the popcorn, and simply grows out of the kernel thereafter. Heat makes things expand, cold makes them contract. Except with water, it expands at freezing temperature (hence, when you fill a glass with water and freeze it, it shatters).

And no, the spin move does not have any temperature associated properties, it has a gravitational effect.

Yes, but Polari accomplishes no such objective. He just waves his hand and suddenly Star Bits.

But anyway, this has spun off into all sorts.

Point is, even if you assume Rosalina has no deity responsibilities and is mortal, she can effectively make herself immortal using Lumas' services. Even if you believe Lumas use Star Bits as fuel, they are not hard to come by, especially for someone like Rosalina who has control over the stars (and probably has lots of them in the Observatory). And even without that, she is still very well protected and she'd basically have to intentionally let you hit her to get a hit in, thanks to her protective barrier, Gravitational Pull, flight, and warp abilities. Flight and warp also grant her unlimited mobility (and even in Smash she is portrayed with above average walk and dash speed, even if only a little bit, so mobility is there too. Also she has the best mobility in 3D World, thanks to the spin, and is also always a heavy in Mario Kart - so mobility is something you would associate with Rosalina even if you take away her warp and flight abilities). She could use her gravity manipulation and mind control to bend opponents to her will both physically and mentally. And for straight up offense, see all of her Smash normals and the Spin Attack, and for larger scale moves - summoning shooting stars, using Power Stars to devastating effect (which probably means the Grand Stars are even MORE devastating when she uses them offensively), commanding the Comet Observatory (she doesn't actually need to stand on it to use it), generating Cosmic Spirit duplicates, getting an army of Lumas to fight for her, etc.

This Star Bits talk is boring. Can you move on now?

She's honestly a bit broken in combat. The gravity and mind control are all she really needs, the rest is overkill.

Good news everyone! She used never did any of that outside of Smash.

Seriously though, can she handle the Waah if that is all she has?

 

[ChikoLad]

Good news everyone! She used never did any of that outside of Smash.

She did.

I would be nice if you paid attention in Smash Character Lore class.

Also, she never even did the mind control in Smash, only elsewhere.

 

[Munomario777]

That's because heat causes expansion of the white puffy material. It's actually smaller before you heat the popcorn, and simply grows out of the kernel thereafter. Heat makes things expand, cold makes them contract. Except with water, it expands at freezing temperature (hence, when you fill a glass with water and freeze it, it shatters).

And no, the spin move does not have any temperature associated properties, it has a gravitational effect.

Yes, but Polari accomplishes no such objective. He just waves his hand and suddenly Star Bits.

But anyway, this has spun off into all sorts.

Point is, even if you assume Rosalina has no deity responsibilities and is mortal, she can effectively make herself immortal using Lumas' services. Even if you believe Lumas use Star Bits as fuel, they are not hard to come by, especially for someone like Rosalina who has control over the stars (and probably has lots of them in the Observatory). And even without that, she is still very well protected and she'd basically have to intentionally let you hit her to get a hit in, thanks to her protective barrier, Gravitational Pull, flight, and warp abilities. Flight and warp also grant her unlimited mobility (and even in Smash she is portrayed with above average walk and dash speed, even if only a little bit, so mobility is there too. Also she has the best mobility in 3D World, thanks to the spin, and is also always a heavy in Mario Kart - so mobility is something you would associate with Rosalina even if you take away her warp and flight abilities). She could use her gravity manipulation and mind control to bend opponents to her will both physically and mentally. And for straight up offense, see all of her Smash normals and the Spin Attack, and for larger scale moves - summoning shooting stars, using Power Stars to devastating effect (which probably means the Grand Stars are even MORE devastating when she uses them offensively), commanding the Comet Observatory (she doesn't actually need to stand on it to use it), generating Cosmic Spirit duplicates, getting an army of Lumas to fight for her, etc.

She's honestly a bit broken in combat. The gravity and mind control are all she really needs, the rest is overkill.

Honestly, I like'd this mainly because we're ending the whole Star Bit tangent, lol. Here are my closing remarks on the subject:

Who knows, the Star Bits could have a different condition for expanding, like star/Luma power, since the Luma-induced Spin as well as Lumas themselves can cause them to appear from within objects.

Well, it's the tutorial, so maybe the objective was as easy as waving a hand?

Yeah, I think would be the top character in non-deity/immortality environments, if not for one thing that sort of negates all of that: Chaos Control. If we're giving the Chaos Emeralds, then he has access to the time-and-space-bending properties of Chaos Control, which allows him to teleport, freeze time, and perform other such feats. In addition, his willpower allows him to resist mind control, as shown on a few occasions. He's honestly a bit broken in combat as well.

 

[ChikoLad]

Yeah, I think would be the top character in non-deity/immortality environments, if not for one thing that sort of negates all of that: Chaos Control. If we're giving the Chaos Emeralds, then he has access to the time-and-space-bending properties of Chaos Control, which allows him to teleport, freeze time, and perform other such feats. In addition, his willpower allows him to resist mind control, as shown on a few occasions. He's honestly a bit broken in combat as well.

Sonic can't resist mind control in the games (he's never been shown to be put under it's effect - Tails took the hit for him when Eggman tried to put him under mind control), or physical debilitation (see Shadow the Hedgehog in the case of the latter, in which all of the characters except for Shadow are debilitated due to the atmosphere and the toxins in the Black Comet). Plus, Rosalina could pull the Chaos Emeralds from him before he even attempts to use them (if she put him under zero gravity, they'd probably just float off of him). Keeping in mind that Sonic only uses the Emeralds when he feels he really needs them (which generally takes a lot since he has an ego), Rosalina would have him on the ropes long before he decides to use them (a character's personality is just as important here too, and Sonic only uses the Emeralds in a pinch).

Also, do not confuse Sonic's resistance to Dark Gaia's energy as mind control resistance. Dark Gaia Force is an energy that brought out the worst in people's personalities, not put them under mind control of another host. Sonic was resistant to this because he is so pure of heart, he has no strong dark side to his personality besides a degree of ruthlessness (which is brought out in Werehog form). He's just a pure of heart guy, besides his occasional ruthlessness.

There is no evidence to suggest that Sonic would be resistant to mind control from another conscious being in the game canon. A strong will would mean nothing, as the whole point of mind control is removing one of their will.

 

[Munomario777]

Sonic can't resist mind control in the games (he's never been shown to be put under it's effect - Tails took the hit for him when Eggman tried to put him under mind control), or physical debilitation (see Shadow the Hedgehog in the case of the latter, in which all of the characters except for Shadow are debilitated due to the atmosphere and the toxins in the Black Comet). Plus, Rosalina could pull the Chaos Emeralds from him before he even attempts to use them (if she put him under zero gravity, they'd probably just float off of him). Keeping in mind that Sonic only uses the Emeralds when he feels he really needs them (which generally takes a lot since he has an ego), Rosalina would have him on the ropes long before he decides to use them (a character's personality is just as important here too, and Sonic only uses the Emeralds in a pinch).

Also, do not confuse Sonic's resistance to Dark Gaia's energy as mind control resistance. Dark Gaia Force is an energy that brought out the worst in people's personalities, not put them under mind control of another host. Sonic was resistant to this because he is so pure of heart, he has no strong dark side to his personality besides a degree of ruthlessness (which is brought out in Werehog form). He's just a pure of heart guy, besides his occasional ruthlessness.

There is no evidence to suggest that Sonic would be resistant to mind control from another conscious being in the game canon. A strong will would mean nothing, as the whole point of mind control is removing one of their will.

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog#Powers_and_Abilities That's where it lists his mind control resistances. I never said he can't be weakened by things that are poisonous. Also, Sonic could freeze time before Rosalina could even think about pulling them away from him. We're not discussing ego; we're discussing strength, and besides, if Sonic knew he was facing a gravity-manipulating, mind-controlling being, he would know flight and the other perks would come in handy, and use the Emeralds before they could even get to Rosalina in the first place.

For the last two paragraphs, see the link above. On the subject of strong will meaning nothing, the stronger something is hanging on to another object, the harder it is to pry the objects apart.

 

[ChikoLad]

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog#Powers_and_Abilities That's where it lists his mind control resistances. I never said he can't be weakened by things that are poisonous. Also, Sonic could freeze time before Rosalina could even think about pulling them away from him. We're not discussing ego; we're discussing strength, and besides, if Sonic knew he was facing a gravity-manipulating, mind-controlling being, he would know flight and the other perks would come in handy, and use the Emeralds before they could even get to Rosalina in the first place.

For the last two paragraphs, see the link above. On the subject of strong will meaning nothing, the stronger something is hanging on to another object, the harder it is to pry the objects apart

"Using protection by a Great Emerald powered by the Overmind's power"

This is an event that happened once, in Sonic Chronicles. It was a one time thing. Sonic does not have access to this ability anymore, because the Overmind no longer exists to power the Emerald in the way it did.

Sonic Chronicles is arguably not canon too, since it ends on a cliffhanger, and nothing has ever come of it. Shade also disappeared off the face of the franchise. Even though she was with the team when re-entering Earth in the ending.

Sonic's ego absolutely factors into this discussion, as it has consistently been shown to effect him in combat. That's like saying Luigi's fear of ghosts shouldn't factor into a discussion about him facing one.

And "if Sonic knew" is irrelevant - Sonic doesn't know who Rosalina is. He'd be going into this fresh. And Sonic is known to underestimate his opponents unless he has established respect for them (hence why he still underestimates Eggman despite knowing him so long and what he is capable of).

 

[Munomario777]

"Using protection by a Great Emerald powered by the Overmind's power"

This is an event that happened once, in Sonic Chronicles. It was a one time thing. Sonic does not have access to this ability anymore, because the Overmind no longer exists to power the Emerald in the way it did.

Sonic Chronicles is arguably not canon too, since it ends on a cliffhanger, and nothing has ever come of it. Shade also disappeared off the face of the franchise. Even though she was with the team when re-entering Earth in the ending.

Sonic's ego absolutely factors into this discussion, as it has consistently been shown to effect him in combat. That's like saying Luigi's fear of ghosts shouldn't factor into a discussion about him facing one.

And "if Sonic knew" is irrelevant - Sonic doesn't know who Rosalina is. He'd be going into this fresh. And Sonic is known to underestimate his opponents unless he has established respect for them (hence why he still underestimates Eggman despite knowing him so long and what he is capable of).

Fair enough, but it could come at the end of the "timeline," for all we know.

The topic is discussing strength, as in combat power, not personality. "Who's strongest?" is different from "What if Luigi fought a ghost?"; one is about one quality, that being strength, while the other is about all traits, as it just says "Luigi."

Actually, Sonic has been known to cross over with Mario Characters (Olympics come to mind), so it's somewhat likely that, Rosalina being a deity in Mario's (and by extension Sonic's, since they cross over without any mention of inter-universal travel) universe, Sonic would have heard of her. And if we're not using that admittedly stretched scenario, Rosalina wouldn't know about Sonic's powers either, so Sonic could easily freeze time before she knew to act.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well the topic title states strongest canonically in Smash and Smash doesn't really accurately represent a lot of stuff. Meaning characters that do stuff in their respective games can't use all their abilities in Smash so based off a pure statistical ratio the strongest would obviously be Ganondorf. Personally I think the question is rather bold and hard to answer since just about every character can buff themselves up to Infinity +1 proportions. So nothing can be a definite answer.

 

[ChikoLad]

Fair enough, but it could come at the end of the "timeline," for all we know.

The topic is discussing strength, as in combat power, not personality. "Who's strongest?" is different from "What if Luigi fought a ghost?"; one is about one quality, that being strength, while the other is about all traits, as it just says "Luigi."

Actually, Sonic has been known to cross over with Mario Characters (Olympics come to mind), so it's somewhat likely that, Rosalina being a deity in Mario's (and by extension Sonic's, since they cross over without any mention of inter-universal travel) universe, Sonic would have heard of her. And if we're not using that admittedly stretched scenario, Rosalina wouldn't know about Sonic's powers either, so Sonic could easily freeze time before she knew to act.

Well we already answered the who is the strongest question, and that's Rosalina and Shulk, with Sonic and Kirby being second. So I don't know what you're trying to do. If we are transitioning into character match-ups, then we are bringing the character's personalities in relation to combat into account.

Well the topic title states strongest canonically in Smash and Smash doesn't really accurately represent a lot of stuff. Meaning characters that do stuff in their respective games can't use all their abilities in Smash so based off a pure statistical ratio the strongest would obviously be Ganondorf. Personally I think the question is rather bold and hard to answer since just about every character can buff themselves up to Infinity +1 proportions. So nothing can be a definite answer.

The OP was asking which Smash character would be strongest if all of them had access to their canon power and were free of the Smash meta game.

 

[Etc_Guy]

Also, do not confuse Sonic's resistance to Dark Gaia's energy as mind control resistance. Dark Gaia Force is an energy that brought out the worst in people's personalities, not put them under mind control of another host. Sonic was resistant to this because he is so pure of heart, he has no strong dark side to his personality besides a degree of ruthlessness (which is brought out in Werehog form). He's just a pure of heart guy, besides his occasional ruthlessness.

You want Krool? You'll get Krool my god! Prepare to meet the King of all Krokodiles himself.... KING K. ROOL!!!! If Dark Gaia kan kontrol with the dark side then the Krazy King krushes that feat just for being K.Rool and could even shame that god for trying to be "evil."

"But Sonic has fought a wake scientist before" you may ask. But did he ever fight a (literally) Kutthroat Kaptain or Pharaoh? Even then Kroko is smart and kould take down a simple fly at me strategy with a ring of shiny thiings if prepared with a vacuum.

Some people want him in Smash for being krool, but don't know that he will take the title without wanting to "The King of Evil" which might make upset.

Fair enough, but it could come at the end of the "timeline," for all we know.

The topic is discussing strength, as in kombat power, not personality. "Who's strongest?" is different from "What if Luigi fought a ghost?"; one is about one quality, that being strength, while the other is about all traits, as it just says "Luigi."

Actually, Sonic has been known to cross over with Mario Kharacters (Olympics come to mind), so it's somewhat likely that, Rosalina being a deity in Mario's (and by extension Sonic's, since they cross over without any mention of inter-universal travel) universe, Sonic would have heard of her. And if we're not using that admittedly stretched scenario, Rosalina wouldn't know about Sonic's powers either, so Sonic kould easily freeze time before she knew to act.

The CE is boring, so don't make go after them for being emeralds. isn't a komplete wimp without them right?

Well the topic title states strongest canonically in Smash and Smash doesn't really accurately represent a lot of stuff. Meaning characters that do stuff in their respective games can't use all their abilities in Smash so based off a pure statistical ratio the strongest would obviously be Ganondorf. Personally I think the question is rather bold and hard to answer since just about every character can buff themselves up to Infinity +1 proportions. So nothing can be a definite answer.

What about ? Forget 3 golden triangles when you have overalls, a hat, and skin that kan withstand being submerged in flames and shake off the ashes like dirt.

 

[MagiusNecros]

The OP was asking which Smash character would be strongest if all of them had access to their canon power and were free of the Smash meta game.

Well there is Ganondorf who can beat everyone that isn't Link. Because Master Sword and plot stuffs.

 

[ChikoLad]

Well there is Ganondorf who can beat everyone that isn't Link. Because Master Sword and plot stuffs.

Rosalina, Shulk, Sonic, and Kirby would all have other means to defeat him though.

 

[Etc_Guy]

Rosalina, Shulk, Sonic, and Kirby would all have other means to defeat him though.

POP QUIZ!!!! Someone's fist!

(Y u all ignore my post? )

 

[MagiusNecros]

Rosalina, Shulk, Sonic, and Kirby would all have other means to defeat him though.

Eh. But it is written that only Link can defeat Ganon.

 

[kyxsune]

Eh. But it is written that only Link can defeat Ganon.

while true, I'd say a hellish eternity inside kirby's pocket dimension constitutes "defeat". While not truly incapacitated, he has been reduced to a non threat...and more importantly non existent entity.

 

[Crystanium]

You still haven't shown me the contradiction. Whether we're talking abou jets or rockets, the fact is, Samus is traveling supersonic speeds. You've done nothing but committed an ignoratio elenchi. Viz., you presented a conclusion that is true for some other argument, but failed to address what I'm talking about.

Furthermore, if Samus' jet pack is more like a rocket, great. Jets and rockets fall under aerodynamics.