Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Munomario777]

It is. Go look at Wario Land Shake It!.

What I meant was, the word "canon" used in the post's title refers to strength from the character's home universe. Unless you just coincidentally mentioned Wario's strength and then his ship with cannons on it, in which case I'm sort of an idiot.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Well, she does seem to be in control of the rebirth of the universe, so that gives her some deity-like traits.

That one time. She only resetted back to the Star Festival I believe

 

[Munomario777]

That one time. She only resetted back to the Star Festival I believe

Yes, but she reset the universe regardless.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yes, but she reset the universe regardless.

Can someone direct me to the explanation behind this? I'm kinda lost on where it was explained.

 

[Munomario777]

Can someone direct me to the explanation behind this? I'm kinda lost on where it was explained.

In the ending of Super Mario Galaxy, Bowser's galaxy fortress becomes a black hole, and everything in the universe is sucked into it. The Lumas make a brave sacrifice to save the universe by flooding the black hole, causing it to explode. Then Mario appears in front of a gigantic Rosalina, who basically resets the universe, but this time all the inhabitants from the different galaxies in the game are together in the Mushroom Kingdom.

 

[Trekkerjoe]

@ Etc_Guy , you stated in this thread that saved the console videogame industry. This seems wrong, because that would be stealing credit from , and. Nintendo wouldn't be able to sell consoles in America if it wasn't for 's light gun and himself being there to convince the people of America that Nintendo's products were not just shoddy videogames, but quality entertainment systems.
and are the obscure heroes of the gaming industry.

Anyway to stay slightly closer to the topic:

Do you think would be more powerful if he had a power suit? An android inside a robotic suit, the perfect (and reversible) fusion of both machine and machine. Do you think he would have arm-cannon arm-cannons? CANNONCEPTION!

Now much closer to the topic on hand:

Rosalina has the universe under her dress, probably because she rides on and harnessed the power of an artificial wormhole. This would explain her ability to control space and time(by a limited degree). Anyway, I'm not that impressed. She's clearly not human, so you can't judge her by human standards, but I don't think she herself is that powerful. All her abilities seem to be harnessing an external source, which is fitting, since that is part of her canon, making her no doubt a powerful opponent under normal circumstances, but if you could cut her off from her power source, do you think she would suddenly be mortal?

 

[MagiusNecros]

In the ending of Super Mario Galaxy, Bowser's galaxy fortress becomes a black hole, and everything in the universe is sucked into it. The Lumas make a brave sacrifice to save the universe by flooding the black hole, causing it to explode. Then Mario appears in front of a gigantic Rosalina, who basically resets the universe, but this time all the inhabitants from the different galaxies in the game are together in the Mushroom Kingdom.

Ah I see. Makes sense. Looks like Rosalina is pretty powerful on a life giving scale. As opposed to destruction.

 

[Munomario777]

Rosalina has the universe under her dress, probably because she rides on and harnessed the power of an artificial wormhole. This would explain her ability to control space and time(by a limited degree). Anyway, I'm not that impressed. She's clearly not human, so you can't judge her by human standards, but I don't think she herself is that powerful. All her abilities seem to be harnessing an external source, which is fitting, since that is part of her canon, making her no doubt a powerful opponent under normal circumstances, but if you could cut her off from her power source, do you think she would suddenly be mortal?

Which external source, may I ask?

Ah I see. Makes sense. Looks like Rosalina is pretty powerful on a life giving scale. As opposed to destruction.

Yeah, that does seem to be her preferred use of her power.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Which external source, may I ask?

Gonna guess the Power Stars and Grand Stars because Rosalina couldn't do crap without them initially. What with Bowser nabbing them all....somehow. Since her Observatory AKA Spaceship couldn't go anywhere without the stars to power it.

 

[Etc_Guy]

@ Etc_Guy , you stated in this thread that saved the console videogame industry. This seems wrong, because that would be stealing credit from , and. Nintendo wouldn't be able to sell consoles in America if it wasn't for 's light gun and himself being there to convince the people of America that Nintendo's products were not just shoddy videogames, but quality entertainment systems.
and are the obscure heroes of the gaming industry.

Anyway to stay slightly closer to the topic:

Do you think would be more powerful if he had a power suit? An android inside a robotic suit, the perfect (and reversible) fusion of both machine and machine. Do you think he would have arm-cannon arm-cannons? CANNONCEPTION!

Now much closer to the topic on hand:

Rosalina has the universe under her dress, probably because she rides on and harnessed the power of an artificial wormhole. This would explain her ability to control space and time(by a limited degree). Anyway, I'm not that impressed. She's clearly not human, so you can't judge her by human standards, but I don't think she herself is that powerful. All her abilities seem to be harnessing an external source, which is fitting, since that is part of her canon, making her no doubt a powerful opponent under normal circumstances, but if you could cut her off from her power source, do you think she would suddenly be mortal?

You're right! would have contributed since him and were on the same cartridge. was sold with a deluxe NES set but I don't know how well the bot sold in all. Add-ons and guns likely convinced Americans and Europeans to get the console.

 

[Munomario777]

Gonna guess the Power Stars and Grand Stars because Rosalina couldn't do crap without them initially. What with Bowser nabbing them all....somehow.

Well, I haven't seen any indication that Rosalina's powers rely on the Power/Grand Stars, besides them being the Observatory's fuel source (the thing Rosalina did when travelling to the final level in Galaxy was likely some sort of ignition sequence), which wouldn't explain her teleportation, flight, and other such abilities.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well, I haven't seen any indication that Rosalina's powers rely on the Power/Grand Stars, besides them being the Observatory's fuel source (the thing Rosalina did when travelling to the final level in Galaxy was likely some sort of ignition sequence), which wouldn't explain her teleportation, flight, and other such abilities.

Those other abilities are probably innate qualities. But I think it's pretty established Rosalina is quite up there. Personally it's a toss up between her and Hypernova Kirby for me.

 

[Munomario777]

Those other abilities are probably innate qualities.

Yeah, probably.

 

[Trekkerjoe]

Which external source, may I ask?

What I remember from several sources, and my brain. That really was nothing more than a theory. Nex time I should mention it as one instead of presenting it as fact.

Well, I haven't seen any indication that Rosalina's powers rely on the Power/Grand Stars, besides them being the Observatory's fuel source (the thing Rosalina did when travelling to the final level in Galaxy was likely some sort of ignition sequence), which wouldn't explain her teleportation, flight, and other such abilities.

Her power is directly linked to the power stars. They probably have enough power to permeate spacetime, opening rifts, harnessing temporal flux. The fact she has the universe under her dress, or rather a portal to it, suggests she simply uses the flow and balance of the universe. I suggest comparing it to harnessing the power of a waterfall. You can use the flow of the waterfall to move machinery, Rosalina can harness the flow of the universe to power her abilities. Keep in mind this is just a theory. Probably a wonky one...

@ Munomario777 If you want me to theorize how she teleports, just let me know, I don't want to hog the thread.

 

[Munomario777]

What I remember from several sources, and my brain. That really was nothing more than a theory. Nex time I should mention it as one instead of presenting it as fact.



Her power is directly linked to the power stars. They probably have enough power to permeate spacetime, opening rifts, harnessing temporal flux. The fact she has the universe under her dress, or rather a portal to it, suggests she simply uses the flow and balance of the universe. I suggest comparing it to harnessing the power of a waterfall. You can use the flow of the waterfall to move machinery, Rosalina can harness the flow of the universe to power her abilities. Keep in mind this is just a theory. Probably a wonky one...

@ Munomario777 If you want me to theorize how she teleports, just let me know, I don't want to hog the thread.

No worries.

Where does it say that all her powers use the Power Stars? Oh wait, it's just a theory. Nevermind then. Also, since the universe sort of encompasses everything, I think her harnessing the flow of the universe would make it a practically innate ability, since I don't think she's leaving the universe anytime soon.

You're free to theorize if you so wish

 

[Crystanium]

Only problem with this is that there is actually no reference for how fast Rosalina travels in the Observatory, and it definitely does not appear to be anything close to the speed of light. I also couldn't see her moving quickly in the Observatory that often, as it likely stops by in numerous places, not to mention she has to look after the Lumas at some point, and I doubt that could be done when travelling at the speed of light.

That, and considering how it's been proven that real science and Super Mario Galaxy don't work that well together:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...and_mario_galaxys_planets_come_under_scrutiny

...I think trying to apply real life science to Rosalina's age doesn't work, as it's clear the developers disregard it in this fantasy game.

Rosalina honestly just seems ageless and immortal altogether, which makes sense, given her role as "watcher and protector of the cosmos", and given how she holds the responsibility of giving birth to the next universe. There's also no guarantee the same laws of science would apply in each new universe (if you want to believe the Mario verse would even function on any real science to begin with).

You must have changed your view about Rosalina being the "protector of the cosmos". Not that I took that literally. Our galaxy is at least 100,000 to 120,000 light years. That means it would take light to cover that distance in 1 year, assuming the Marioverse takes place in our galaxy. Funny, too, that your previous post about us being made of star stuff (Carl Sagan) should be so easily dismissed by a new finding. (I read that link before.) So if that's the case, then maybe we shouldn't use calculations for anythng Mario.

 

[Munomario777]

You must have changed your view about Rosalina being the "protector of the cosmos". Not that I took that literally. Our galaxy is at least 100,000 to 120,000 light years. That means it would take light to cover that distance in 1 year, assuming the Marioverse takes place in our galaxy. Funny, too, that your previous post about us being made of star stuff (Carl Sagan) should be so easily dismissed by a new finding. (I read that link before.) So if that's the case, then maybe we shouldn't use calculations for anythng Mario.

Well, I don't think that the Mario series would take place in our galaxy, seeing as each level in Super Mario Galaxy is a galaxy by itself.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm on my phone, so I'll keep it brief (and I don't want to come on later as I got my first Amiibo and wanna play with him when I get home):

-Rosalina's abilities are innate
-Rosalina "needing" Mario is blatant gameplay-story segregation, and is even more irrelevant an argument than it is when applied to Peach (since she is definitely way more powerful than Peach, who herself can do what Mario can just fine, if not better due to her float ability).
-Real Science should not be heavily considered when talking about a game franchise that is quite clearly fantastical and surreal. Elements of real science will exist, though, which is done to give these stories a sense of relatability (like how I said Rosalina's description of how starfish works is similar BUT NOT IDENTICAL to the real scientific process of conservation of mass).
-The Lumas sacrificed nothing to re-shape the universe. They were sucked into the black hole like everyone else. They died, and were reborn, like everyone else, except Rosalina (and Mario, it seems she prevented him from dying at all in order to explain what she needed to).
-Plotholes arise if you try to assume it was the Lumas responsible for recreating the universe.
-R.O.B is not the most powerful if you try to make real life canon to these universes. It would be Diddy Kong, by virtue of a logic loophole you guys are forgetting about. Rosalina would also be very close behind him as a result, and would have the most powerful ability of all the Smash characters.

 

[Crystanium]

Well, I don't think that the Mario series would take place in our galaxy, seeing as each level in Super Mario Galaxy is a galaxy by itself.

They must be pretty close galaxies, then.

Either way, I'm still not convinced that Rosalina is the most powerful here. Not even Shulk.

Anyway, in Metroid Fusion, Samus is 77 px. tall. I'll equal this to 182.88 cm., since Samus' knees are kind of bent and her actual height is 190 cm. based on the Metroid II: Return of Samus manual. In the beginning of Metroid Fusion, you can find a room where a power bomb was set by SA-X. According to Samus, this explosion "rocked the station". Given that Samus' height is 77 px. in MF and that a screen is 309 px., I will take into consideration the range of the damage, which is at least slightly more than 2 screens, but only marginally.

309 px. + 309 px. = 618 px.

I will then divide 618 px. by Samus' height in px.

618 px. / 77 px. = 8.025974025974026, or 802%

182.88 cm. * 8.025974025974026 = 1,467.79012987012987488 cm., or 14.68 m. Taking the equation by G. I. Taylor, I end up with a yield of 397,332,495,591.79 joules, or 94.96 tons of TNT. To get an idea of how powerful that would be, this is the closest I can find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgLzgdbfeJE

It would be greater than this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIQr62lZbsM

 

[Munomario777]

They must be pretty close galaxies, then.

Either way, I'm still not convinced that Rosalina is the most powerful here. Not even Shulk.

Anyway, in Metroid Fusion, Samus is 77 px. tall. I'll equal this to 182.88 cm., since Samus' knees are kind of bent and her actual height is 190 cm. based on the Metroid II: Return of Samus manual. In the beginning of Metroid Fusion, you can find a room where a power bomb was set by SA-X. According to Samus, this explosion "rocked the station". Given that Samus' height is 77 px. in MF and that a screen is 309 px., I will take into consideration the range of the damage, which is at least slightly more than 2 screens, but only marginally.

309 px. + 309 px. = 618 px.

I will then divide 618 px. by Samus' height in px.

618 px. / 77 px. = 8.025974025974026, or 802%

182.88 cm. * 8.025974025974026 = 1,467.79012987012987488 cm., or 14.68 m. Taking the equation by G. I. Taylor, I end up with a yield of 397,332,495,591.79 joules, or 94.96 tons of TNT. To get an idea of how powerful that would be, this is the closest I can find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgLzgdbfeJE

It would be greater than this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIQr62lZbsM

Not necessarily. The universe is a big place, so who knows how far away Mario's galaxy(or galaxies) would be from ours. Or it could just be a completely separate universe.

Rosalina is a deity-like figure can reset the universe at will. Shulk is a god and can do the same. Your point?

Also, I like how you said we shouldn't use science when talking about Mario and then you use science when talking about Metroid, which has just as many unrealistic feats, if not more (multiple jumps in the air, bizarre alien energy, the list goes on).

 

[Crystanium]

-Rosalina "needing" Mario is blatant gameplay-story segregation, and is even more irrelevant an argument than it is when applied to Peach (since she is definitely way more powerful than Peach, who herself can do what Mario can just fine, if not better due to her float ability).

Game play and story segregation involves "inconsistenc[ies] in how things work or behave between the gameplay [sic] and storyline sections of a video game, the latter of which generally consists primarily of cut-scenes and dialogue." (TV Tropes) I fail to see how the story, which involves Rosalina needing Mario's help contradicts itself. The developers clearly intended for Rosalina to need Mario's help. This is the story, not game play. The cut-scenes and textual data proves this.

-The Lumas sacrificed nothing to re-shape the universe. They were sucked into the black hole like everyone else. They died, and were reborn, like everyone else, except Rosalina (and Mario, it seems she prevented him from dying at all in order to explain what she needed to).

They' sacrificed themselves. You see this when Mario's luma leaves Mario and it plays that tear-jerking theme. We see Rosalina's observatory also sucked into the supermassive black hole. In order to not die, Rosalina would have needed to leave the Universe, since everything in the Universe would include her.

-Plotholes arise if you try to assume it was the Lumas responsible for recreating the universe.

I'm not sure why.

Not necessarily. The universe is a big place, so who knows how far away Mario's galaxy(or galaxies) would be from ours. Or it could just be a completely separate universe.

Rosalina is a deity-like figure can reset the universe at will. Shulk is a god and can do the same. Your point?

Also, I like how you said we shouldn't use science when talking about Mario and then you use science when talking about Metroid, which has just as many unrealistic feats, if not more (multiple jumps in the air, bizarre alien energy, the list goes on).

I was referring to the galaxies in Super Mario Galaxy, not our universe. You already addressed this.

Rosalina seems like a deity, but nothing is explicitly stated. I didn't see Rosalina reset the Universe. That has yet to be proved. Shulk being a god means nothing. His abilities depend on ether's presence.

If you read my post, you would actually see that I was telling sonicbrawler that if we shouldn't use calculations, then I guess we shouldn't for anything Mario. It was a reply to his post about how our physics differ from the Marioverse. Context and reading comprehension would assist you.

I also don't see how multiple jumps would be unrealistic. In Metroid Prime, the Space Jump Boots (only double jumping in that one) pretty much equip Samus with "boot-mounted thrusters".

 

[Munomario777]

I was referring to the galaxies in Super Mario Galaxy, not our universe. You already addressed this.

Rosalina seems like a deity, but nothing is explicitly stated. I didn't see Rosalina reset the Universe. That has yet to be proved. Shulk being a god means nothing. His abilities depend on ether's presence.

If you read my post, you would actually see that I was telling sonicbrawler that if we shouldn't use calculations, then I guess we shouldn't for anything Mario. It was a reply to his post about how our physics differ from the Marioverse. Context and reading comprehension would assist you.

I also don't see how multiple jumps would be unrealistic. In Metroid Prime, the Space Jump Boots (only double jumping in that one) pretty much equip Samus with "boot-mounted thrusters".

My apologies, I thought that you were talking about ours in relation to Mario's.

I'll let Sonicbrawler defend Rosalina, since that's more his field than mine.

Again, my apologies.

By "multiple double jumps," I was thinking more about the Screw Attack from Prime 2, which lets her jump five times while spinning, and you can do it at any point in the spinning animation if I'm not mistaken, so there's no guarantee that any thrusters would be facing the right direction all the time. Also, I haven't found a source for the power of that Power Bomb, other than the Metroid Wiki stating that SA-X used it to "escape the Quarantine Bay, releasing all the X within the capsules, and thus, causing more events to occur." Seeing as how the Bay isn't, you know, blown up after the Power Bomb explodes, I doubt it has the same amount of power demonstrated in your video sources.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Rosalina is a deity-like figure can reset the universe at will. Shulk is a god and can do the same. Your point?

Shulk can't. Alvis does the reset. Think of it as a literal Deus Ex Machina. God in the Machine.

 

[Crystanium]

My apologies, I thought that you were talking about ours in relation to Mario's.

I'll let Sonicbrawler defend Rosalina, since that's more his field than mine.

Again, my apologies.

By "multiple double jumps," I was thinking more about the Screw Attack from Prime 2, which lets her jump five times while spinning, and you can do it at any point in the spinning animation if I'm not mistaken, so there's no guarantee that any thrusters would be facing the right direction all the time. Also, I haven't found a source for the power of that Power Bomb, other than the Metroid Wiki stating that SA-X used it to "escape the Quarantine Bay, releasing all the X within the capsules, and thus, causing more events to occur." Seeing as how the Bay isn't, you know, blown up after the Power Bomb explodes, I doubt it has the same amount of power demonstrated in your video sources.

It's fine.

Yeah, that's an interesting thing of its own. The direction can be slightly altered in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, but it's mostly linear. Samus' jet pack and boots may be used in conjunction somehow in order for her to rotate in the air.

http://metroid.retropixel.net/games/mprime2/artwork/concept_samus_sanctuary_fortress.jpg

I would assume the two thrusters work like how a helicopter requires two blades so that the top blade doesn't cause the helicopter to spin horizontally, except she's moving forward.

In the beginning of Metroid Fusion, Samus explains what occurred up to the point where she tells us she's being sent to the B.S.L. She says that an explosion rocked the station. That station is rather large.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070804234621/metroid/images/e/e0/BSL_research_station1.png
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070804234652/metroid/images/4/4f/BSL_research_station2.png

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bottle Ship was based off it by the developers.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120629182704/metroid/images/3/3f/Bottle_Ship_Close_Up.png

In Metroid Fusion, you're able to find the Quarantine Bay and the area that was affected. This covers at least two screens tall and probably longer in length. The perfect demonstration of the Power Bomb, in my opinion, is from Metroid: Other M.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Dvub_GcxQ&t=770s

It shouldn't come to any surprise that the Bottle Ship can tank Samus' power bombs, considering that at the beginning, the guy who has you test your abilities tells you that the place is well fortified (at least the place Samus is in at the time) and to not hold back. That's when Samus is supposed to use a power bomb. I wouldn't be surprised for the B.S.L to be the same.

 

[Munomario777]

Shulk can't. Alvis does the reset. Think of it as a literal Deus Ex Machina. God in the Machine.

Hmm, good point. I haven't played Xenoblade myself, but I found this on the game's Wiki:

Spoiler: Xenoblade Spoilers!

[Alvis] goes on to point out that the world is falling apart, and asks Shulk, as its god, what he wishes to do with it. Shulk is unsure, so Alvis recreates the other party members' personalities from Shulk's consciousness to help him decide. Shulk says that the decision belongs to every living being, and allows Alvis to create a world without gods. The three Monados fuse together in a great burst of energy, and the planet reforms itself around Bionis as the rest of the universe is also recreated.

It's fine.

Yeah, that's an interesting thing of its own. The direction can be slightly altered in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, but it's mostly linear. Samus' jet pack and boots may be used in conjunction somehow in order for her to rotate in the air.

http://metroid.retropixel.net/games/mprime2/artwork/concept_samus_sanctuary_fortress.jpg

I would assume the two thrusters work like how a helicopter requires two blades so that the top blade doesn't cause the helicopter to spin horizontally, except she's moving forward.

In the beginning of Metroid Fusion, Samus explains what occurred up to the point where she tells us she's being sent to the B.S.L. She says that an explosion rocked the station. That station is rather large.

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070804234621/metroid/images/e/e0/BSL_research_station1.png
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070804234652/metroid/images/4/4f/BSL_research_station2.png

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bottle Ship was based off it by the developers.

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120629182704/metroid/images/3/3f/Bottle_Ship_Close_Up.png

In Metroid Fusion, you're able to find the Quarantine Bay and the area that was affected. This covers at least two screens tall and probably longer in length. The perfect demonstration of the Power Bomb, in my opinion, is from Metroid: Other M.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Dvub_GcxQ&t=770s

It shouldn't come to any surprise that the Bottle Ship can tank Samus' power bombs, considering that at the beginning, the guy who has you test your abilities tells you that the place is well fortified (at least the place Samus is in at the time) and to not hold back. That's when Samus is supposed to use a power bomb. I wouldn't be surprised for the B.S.L to be the same.

The problem with the two thrusters theory is that both a jetpack on her back and jet boots on the bottom of her feet would be facing in the same direction if she was curled up in a fetal position, and you can see that even in the artwork, so there's really no way they could work together to propel her upwards at different points in the animation. Also, the fact that she's spinning sort of defeats the helicopter theory (not to mention that helicopters' two blades battle centrifugal force, while we're discussing how Samus would combat gravity while spinning around). I think it's probably some sort of anti-gravity device, since Metroid is pretty futuristic and all. Plus, IIRC, I think we do see Samus's ship hovering at some point.

Yes, the bomb rocked the station, but it didn't blow a hole in it. In general, the Power Bomb seems to be strong enough to at least damage most organic life forms (even though the X Parasites somehow survived the explosion in Fusion, but whatever), but not quite powerful enough to cause major structural damage, other than breaking glass and the like.

 

[Crystanium]

Hmm, good point. I haven't played Xenoblade myself, but I found this on the game's Wiki:

Spoiler: Xenoblade Spoilers!

[Alvis] goes on to point out that the world is falling apart, and asks Shulk, as its god, what he wishes to do with it. Shulk is unsure, so Alvis recreates the other party members' personalities from Shulk's consciousness to help him decide. Shulk says that the decision belongs to every living being, and allows Alvis to create a world without gods. The three Monados fuse together in a great burst of energy, and the planet reforms itself around Bionis as the rest of the universe is also recreated.

The problem with the two thrusters theory is that both a jetpack on her back and jet boots on the bottom of her feet would be facing in the same direction if she was curled up in a fetal position, and you can see that even in the artwork, so there's really no way they could work together to propel her upwards at different points in the animation. Also, the fact that she's spinning sort of defeats the helicopter theory (not to mention that helicopters' two blades battle centrifugal force, while we're discussing how Samus would combat gravity while spinning around). I think it's probably some sort of anti-gravity device, since Metroid is pretty futuristic and all. Plus, IIRC, I think we do see Samus's ship hovering at some point.

Yes, the bomb rocked the station, but it didn't blow a hole in it. In general, the Power Bomb seems to be strong enough to at least damage most organic life forms (even though the X Parasites somehow survived the explosion in Fusion, but whatever), but not quite powerful enough to cause major structural damage, other than breaking glass and the like.

I'd have to lean towards the anti-gravity device or something. Early on, the Metroid series never explained how these things worked. I think that's where Retro Studios tried to explain, rather than just showing us the results.

I'm not saying the power bomb blew a hole in it.

"As you know, they have the ability to spread a high-temperature heat wave over a large area, impacting living things... which is a nice way of saying they can vaporize humans instantly. You should be well aware of how dangerous Power Bombs are and how their devastation can't be obstructed with common materials." - Adam Malkovich

Power bombs are capable of destroying bendezium, which are have high density and a high melting point. Bendezium is also a popular building material in the Metroidverse. So these ships must be fortified with some stronger alloy for minimal destruction to occur while causing the ship to shake.

 

[Munomario777]

I'd have to lean towards the anti-gravity device or something. Early on, the Metroid series never explained how these things worked. I think that's where Retro Studios tried to explain, rather than just showing us the results.

I'm not saying the power bomb blew a hole in it.

"As you know, they have the ability to spread a high-temperature heat wave over a large area, impacting living things... which is a nice way of saying they can vaporize humans instantly. You should be well aware of how dangerous Power Bombs are and how their devastation can't be obstructed with common materials." - Adam Malkovich

Power bombs are capable of destroying bendezium, which are have high density and a high melting point. Bendezium is also a popular building material in the Metroidverse. So these ships must be fortified with some stronger alloy for minimal destruction to occur while causing the ship to shake.

Yeah, anti-gravity does seem to be the way to go in this situation.

Ah, so it's more of a heat-based weapon. Gotcha. Yeah, that would do quite a bit of damage to most of the other contestants, but it's worth noting that her supply is limited, and there are certain characters with temporary invincibility (Mario with his Starmen, Sonic with his Super form, and although it's not invincibility per se, Shulk does have his Shield Monado Art that could block at least some of the heat), so she wouldn't be able to always rely on Power Bombs alone.

 

[erico9001]

Shulk can't. Alvis does the reset. Think of it as a literal Deus Ex Machina. God in the Machine.

Well Alvis needed Shulk to create a new universe. After all, as Alvis says himself to Shulk, "I am a machine." Before, Zanza was using Alvis to create things, hence this line: "Alvis, how dare you disobey me?! Ah!" Why could Zanza control Alvis and not Meyneth? - Probably because he was the one to use Alvis to create the Xenoblade universe (back when he went by Klaus). It was he who entered the command into the machine. But this power got passed on to Shulk because of Shulk's becoming of a god. Just as Klaus used Alvis to create the Xenoblade universe, Shulk uses Alvis to create this new universe. Alvis is still a machine though, so he needs Shulk's command in order to create a new universe.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well Alvis needed Shulk to create a new universe. After all, as Alvis says himself to Shulk, "I am a machine." Before, Zanza was using Alvis to create things, hence this line: "Alvis, how dare you disobey me?! Ah!" Why could Zanza control Alvis and not Meyneth? - Probably because he was the one to use Alvis to create the Xenoblade universe (back when he went by Klaus). It was he who entered the command into the machine. But this power got passed on to Shulk because of Shulk's becoming of a god. Just as Klaus used Alvis to create the Xenoblade universe, Shulk uses Alvis to create this new universe. Alvis is still a machine though, so he needs Shulk's command in order to create a new universe.

While it is true Shulk and by extension Humanity(Homs and the various races) gives the command word. The actual work is done by Alvis the machine. I'm not downplaying Shulk here I'm just giving the real facts. By endgame Shulk is basically capable of everything Zanza can do. Having his own Monado or "Will to Power". But after the recreation Shulk obviously loses his God Powers if they truly want a Universe without a need for a god. So Shulk's status on where he lies in terms of strength entirely relies on when you pull him from.

 

[erico9001]

While it is true Shulk and by extension Humanity(Homs and the various races) gives the command word. The actual work is done by Alvis the machine. I'm not downplaying Shulk here I'm just giving the real facts. By endgame Shulk is basically capable of everything Zanza can do. Having his own Monado or "Will to Power". But after the recreation Shulk obviously loses his God Powers if they truly want a Universe without a need for a god. So Shulk's status on where he lies in terms of strength entirely relies on when you pull him from.

It does. Although, what has been the trend for other characters? Are we considering Link with his items or without any items (does he have the fierce deity mask?). We should at least remain constant, making sure not to apply special rules in spite of a single character.

 

[MagiusNecros]

It does. Although, what has been the trend for other characters? Are we considering Link with his items or without any items (does he have the fierce deity mask?). We should at least remain constant, making sure not to apply special rules in spite of a single character.

I'm thinking the best way to go about it is to pull the character at when they were the most powerful. Which can be difficult with Mario characters and Kirby especially. Because Kirby is Kirby. Rosalina can seemingly warp the Universe. Bowser usually has a vast array of Final Boss forms, the most recent being Dreamy Bowser? Some Pokemon can do crazy stuff too. Shulk and maybe the Kid Icarus(maybe the Deities anyway) characters might be up there but as for everyone else I think they are on the lower end of the spectrum due to their overall game setting and how limited their endgame abilities actually turn out to be.

 

[Crystanium]

Yeah, anti-gravity does seem to be the way to go in this situation.

Ah, so it's more of a heat-based weapon. Gotcha. Yeah, that would do quite a bit of damage to most of the other contestants, but it's worth noting that her supply is limited, and there are certain characters with temporary invincibility (Mario with his Starmen, Sonic with his Super form, and although it's not invincibility per se, Shulk does have his Shield Monado Art that could block at least some of the heat), so she wouldn't be able to always rely on Power Bombs alone.

Seems like that. Samus' supply isnt limited, at least not in Metroid: Other M. It's at least indefinite. The way power bombs work in MOM is that Samus charges up her normal bomb and then releases when it's fully charged, destroying everything within its vicinity. It has a cool down, but this seems to be reduced when Samus acquires Accel Charges throughout the game. There are a total of 6 from what I recall. This also speeds up the charge so she can release a devastating attack.

Mario's Star Man is vulnerable to extreme heat. In Super Mario Bros. Wii, even if Mario has a star man, touching lava or magma will kill him. Sonic's super form might prevent death, but we don't know because as far as I'm aware, Sonic has never survived extreme temperatures. As for Shulk's Shield Monado, even if a power bomb couldn't get through, I'd suspect another go would do. Samus has dealt with enemies like Fumbleye, who have shields of their own. Even if that didn't work, Samus' wave beam is capable of by-passing transparent and translucent objects, including Fumbleye's shield. (The plasma beam possesses a piercing quality.)

If light is passing through the Shield Monado, the wave beam should be able to, too, considering waves can pass through the shield. (Photons having that wave-particle duality.)

 

[erico9001]

Seems like that. Samus' supply isnt limited, at least not in Metroid: Other M. It's at least indefinite. The way power bombs work in MOM is that Samus charges up her normal bomb and then releases when it's fully charged, destroying everything within its vicinity. It has a cool down, but this seems to be reduced when Samus acquires Accel Charges throughout the game. There are a total of 6 from what I recall. This also speeds up the charge so she can release a devastating attack.

Mario's Star Man is vulnerable to extreme heat. In Super Mario Bros. Wii, even if Mario has a star man, touching lava or magma will kill him. Sonic's super form might prevent death, but we don't know because as far as I'm aware, Sonic has never survived extreme temperatures. As for Shulk's Shield Monado, even if a power bomb couldn't get through, I'd suspect another go would do. Samus has dealt with enemies like Fumbleye, who have shields of their own. Even if that didn't work, Samus' wave beam is capable of by-passing transparent and translucent objects, including Fumbleye's shield. (The plasma beam possesses a piercing quality.)

If light is passing through the Shield Monado, the wave beam should be able to, too, considering waves can pass through the shield. (Photons having that wave-particle duality.)

There's only one cutscene in the game that I can think of where Shulk uses Monado Shield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xvIig9_hxE
The Shield does remain after the hit happens. Tbh, it's kind of op >_>. I can see why the story writers don't have him use it much in cutscenes. Actually, never mind, it's probably more that he doesn't have a need to because of the future seeing. This thing can take fire and lightning hits, so I doubt that bomb is getting through.

Anyways, Samus's wave beam sounds like an issue for Shulk's Monado Shield, so I guess it would be Shulk foreseeing the attack with a vision. That's what happens when he or somebody he knows is under threat. Like here he is when he first gets the Monado... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQSEdyCG-Uk

Shulk's a bad person to compare to though, with his eventual

Spoiler: xenoblade endgame stuff

ability to wish you into nonexistence

 

[ShadowLBlue]

In the games it was either Master Sword or Silver Arrow. Master Sword is just a seal while the Silver Arrows can outright kill him.

I'm not sure what that has to do with my statement other weapons have been able to hurt him in actual gameplay...

 

[Munomario777]

Seems like that. Samus' supply isnt limited, at least not in Metroid: Other M. It's at least indefinite. The way power bombs work in MOM is that Samus charges up her normal bomb and then releases when it's fully charged, destroying everything within its vicinity. It has a cool down, but this seems to be reduced when Samus acquires Accel Charges throughout the game. There are a total of 6 from what I recall. This also speeds up the charge so she can release a devastating attack.

Mario's Star Man is vulnerable to extreme heat. In Super Mario Bros. Wii, even if Mario has a star man, touching lava or magma will kill him. Sonic's super form might prevent death, but we don't know because as far as I'm aware, Sonic has never survived extreme temperatures. As for Shulk's Shield Monado, even if a power bomb couldn't get through, I'd suspect another go would do. Samus has dealt with enemies like Fumbleye, who have shields of their own. Even if that didn't work, Samus' wave beam is capable of by-passing transparent and translucent objects, including Fumbleye's shield. (The plasma beam possesses a piercing quality.)

If light is passing through the Shield Monado, the wave beam should be able to, too, considering waves can pass through the shield. (Photons having that wave-particle duality.)

Hmm, interesting.

While I'll agree with you on the subject of Mario's Starman, Sonic's Super Sonic form can stand on lava, as seen in stages like Hill Top Zone and Lava Reef Zone from Sonic 2 and Sonic & Knuckles, respectively. I don't think you can judge Shulk's Monado Arts based on a standard shield from Metroid, since they're from different series, and there's no indication that Shulk's Shield Art uses the same substance. However, since Shulk's Shield Art depends on the enemy's attack being of an equal or lower level, I think it's safe to say a Power Bomb could likely penetrate it.

 

[ChikoLad]

Game play and story segregation involves "inconsistenc[ies] in how things work or behave between the gameplay [sic] and storyline sections of a video game, the latter of which generally consists primarily of cut-scenes and dialogue." (TV Tropes) I fail to see how the story, which involves Rosalina needing Mario's help contradicts itself. The developers clearly intended for Rosalina to need Mario's help. This is the story, not game play. The cut-scenes and textual data proves this.

If you go by Galaxy alone, it's just straight up plot holes - in cutscenes, Rosalina shows abilities that more than enable her to take on Bowser, despite her requesting help.

But now, with 3D World, Rosalina has been shown taking on multiple powered up Bowsers at once:

Even if you continue to be stubborn and ignore the obvious plot hole in Rosalina "needing" Mario's help in Galaxy and decide to ignore the abilities she has, currently, she has been shown defeating him in a main series Mario game with a limited arsenal (and one that is IDENTICAL to what Mario had in Galaxy - save for one or two extra abilities, a BETTER spin attack than what Mario had, and the omission of Star Bits (which were useless against Bowser in Galaxy anyway). So she can take Bowser just fine. That much is certain.

Also, Miyamoto has said in the Iwata Asks regarding 3D World, that Rosalina is made to be "a regular girl" in Mario Kart specifically, and such is why she also has a limited arsenal in 3D World (as her god-like powers are completely unnecessary in these family party games):

"When Super Mario Galaxy first came out, I was a little hung up on why Rosalina was showing up when Princess Peach was already there. I thought it was fine as long as it was only Super Mario Galaxy, and we made her design so she's a little bigger. But all of a sudden she was a regular character in Mario Kart as just a regular girl, even her size turned to normal."

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/super-mario-3d-world/0/3

They' sacrificed themselves. You see this when Mario's luma leaves Mario and it plays that tear-jerking theme. We see Rosalina's observatory also sucked into the supermassive black hole. In order to not die, Rosalina would have needed to leave the Universe, since everything in the Universe would include her.

The Luma merely said good-bye to Mario as it was accepting the inevitable (the end of this universe, and it's death in this universe), and it was never stated to be anything more than that. The tear-jerking theme plays because it is actually Luma's theme in general, according to the soundtrack, and according to Smash Bros too (it's incorporated into the remix of "Rosalina in the Observatory").

The logic behind this "Luma's sacrificed themselves to create a new universe" point is riding on "Rosalina said they can be reborn as galaxies when they die", but the keyword there is "can". They are not always.

Your assumption that Young Master Luma waves goodbye to Mario because it is going to be reborn as a Galaxy to form a new universe is incorrect, as Young Master Luma does not get reborn as a Galaxy - it is merely re-incarnated as itself, only with memory loss. Meaning it was not sacrificing itself.

All of the other Lumas were just being sucked in like it.

In order to not die, Rosalina would have needed to leave the Universe

And she feasibly can - she's got a universe beneath her gown.

I'm not sure why.

Read the post of mine that has been copy-pasted all throughout this topic, it's explained there.

Rosalina seems like a deity, but nothing is explicitly stated. I didn't see Rosalina reset the Universe.

You did, but for some strange reason, you tried twisting it in your head to make it seem otherwise.

 

[Etc_Guy]

Seems like that. Samus' supply isnt limited, at least not in Metroid: Other M. It's at least indefinite. The way power bombs work in MOM is that Samus charges up her normal bomb and then releases when it's fully charged, destroying everything within its vicinity. It has a cool down, but this seems to be reduced when Samus acquires Accel Charges throughout the game. There are a total of 6 from what I recall. This also speeds up the charge so she can release a devastating attack.

Mario's Star Man is vulnerable to extreme heat. In Super Mario Bros. Wii, even if Mario has a star man, touching lava or magma will kill him. Sonic's super form might prevent death, but we don't know because as far as I'm aware, Sonic has never survived extreme temperatures. As for Shulk's Shield Monado, even if a power bomb couldn't get through, I'd suspect another go would do. Samus has dealt with enemies like Fumbleye, who have shields of their own. Even if that didn't work, Samus' wave beam is capable of by-passing transparent and translucent objects, including Fumbleye's shield. (The plasma beam possesses a piercing quality.)

If light is passing through the Shield Monado, the wave beam should be able to, too, considering waves can pass through the shield. (Photons having that wave-particle duality.)

can survive being engulfed in flames with his skin exposed and shake off the ashes like dirt. Can do that?

 

[MagiusNecros]

There's a difference between gameplay design in platformers as opposed to canonical powers in a franchise. If we just took every gameplay element and applied it to every character you could take any kind of spike and poke Megaman with it and he'd be dead right off. Which doesn't really lead to any thought provoking discussion.

 

[Etc_Guy]

There's a difference between gameplay design in platformers as opposed to canonical powers in a franchise. If we just took every gameplay element and applied it to every character you could take any kind of spike and poke Megaman with it and he'd be dead right off. Which doesn't really lead to any thought provoking discussion.

So if game design doesn't count... What would? Going against the most realistic villain with no fancy god powers and win? If all you need is some intricate jumping, a little punching, and fired shots to (temporarily) take down a psycho whatever he wants. He's so krool that all of 's and 's reality benders combined are put to shame on a scale o' evilness. Seriously, how many of them mistreat their minions let alone look that them. Most of the time they're just.... there. Malgor is an exception I can name but not any else. It is fine when you are restricted by technology, but now?

I recently found a brick wall that the CE can't break and that is greedy people and vacuums. You remember the last time a bozo got in the way of 's treasure? It never ends too well I'll say that. Or sucking up all those coins with the Pultergust. Getting those floating jewels will be a snappy. , and might be able to get them too if close enough.

P.S: The only other character that can instantly die to spikes is .

 

[Lukingordex]

Jigglypuff is the strongest character because he can just sing and write in everyone's faces.