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Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

GunGunW

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Actually, Hyrule Warriors fits into the Zelda canon just fine (saying this as someone who marathoned the game's story mode day one).

F-Zero GX is literally the only F-Zero game to have any care for story, outside of GP Legend. However, the former is made by a third party and doesn't connect to any other part of the F-Zero franchise in terms of story. Which is why I disregard it.
If we're going to say that, then only F-Zero and F-Zero X can count. Neither the F-Zero anime or anime based game are made by Nintendo either, and don't connect to the first two games.

Plus, the smash versions of characters have a couple of inconsistencies here and there as well. Like Ganondorf's move set, or Fox and Falco having different abilities/weapons than they do in Star Fox, DK and Bowser sounding like King Kong and Godzilla, Marth speaking a different language than the rest of Fire Emblem characters (although that one has an easier explanation), R.O.B. being more than just a toy.
 
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Crystanium

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I feel like you could use formulae for acceleration due to and for gravity and, using height/size ratios, find the mass of Popstar and Kirby.
Well, if I wanted to find the gravity for Pop Star, I could take Kirby's height and stack him on himself next to another object and then see how long it takes for Kirby to drop. Using 2h / t^2, I'd then be able to find the gravity, but this requires the use of pixels and will vary from game to game. I tried this out with Super Metroid and Metroid: Zero Mission and ended up with different gravity. So it's not reliable. Any other way, I don't know how I'd find the gravity.
Re: :4falcon:

I know a lot of people point to F-Zero GX to say "he's actually not that strong", but the problem with that is that F-Zero GX was made by SEGA. If we aren't counting Hyrule Warriors for the Zelda characters (if we could, Zelda and Sheik would be much higher on my tier list), then we ain't counting GX either.

As far as I'm concerned, F-Zero Densetsu (the anime) and Smash are the only times Captain Falcon has ever had much characterisation from Nintendo themselves. Therefore, those are Nintendo's real idea of what the character is. F-Zero GX was not a fully accurate portrayal of the character compared to all other sources, so it's really negligible.
F-Zero GX/AX is canon. The developer was Amusement Vision. Nintendo published it. To say that F-Zero GX/AX shouldn't be considered is like saying Metroid Prime shouldn't be considered, since it was developed by Retro Studios instead of Nintendo's R&D1, or heck, Metroid: Other M shouldn't be canon because it was developed by Team Ninja.

F-Zero's original source material is from the video games, so anything else that's secondary like the anime takes the backseat.
 
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Rockaphin

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Here's my canon-tier list, however, not every character is listed. This is due to my lack of knowledge of some of the Smash cast.

A:
:4samus::4sonic::mewtwopm:
B:
:4mario::4luigi::4peach::4lucario::4charizard::4robinm:
C:
:4link::4dk::4greninja::4bowser::4pikachu::4jigglypuff::squirtle::ivysaur:
D:
:4diddy::4littlemac::4falcon::4zss::4yoshi::4bowserjr::snake::pichumelee:
F:
:4villager::4duckhunt::4gaw::4olimar::4wiifit::4rob::4mii:
 
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ChikoLad

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Well, if I wanted to find the gravity for Pop Star, I could take Kirby's height and stack him on himself next to another object and then see how long it takes for Kirby to drop. Using 2h / t^2, I'd then be able to find the gravity, but this requires the use of pixels and will vary from game to game. I tried this out with Super Metroid and Metroid: Zero Mission and ended up with different gravity. So it's not reliable. Any other way, I don't know how I'd find the gravity.


F-Zero GX/AX is canon. The developer was Amusement Vision. Nintendo published it. To say that F-Zero GX/AX shouldn't be considered is like saying Metroid Prime shouldn't be considered, since it was developed by Retro Studios instead of Nintendo's R&D1, or heck, Metroid: Other M shouldn't be canon because it was developed by Team Ninja.

F-Zero's original source material is from the video games, so anything else that's secondary like the anime takes the backseat.
Only problem with that though is that F-Zero GX's story ties into no other element of the franchise meaning it's story is completely one off and segregated, while the anime ties into an actual F-Zero game with it's own story, and every other form of material with Captain Falcon in it, including Smash, portrays him with the power he had in the anime. That's why I won't except GX as the end all be all, as it is the least significant of the story based F-Zero products.
 

Crystanium

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Only problem with that though is that F-Zero GX's story ties into no other element of the franchise meaning it's story is completely one off and segregated, while the anime ties into an actual F-Zero game with it's own story, and every other form of material with Captain Falcon in it, including Smash, portrays him with the power he had in the anime. That's why I won't except GX as the end all be all, as it is the least significant of the story based F-Zero products.
Just like Metroid Prime, yet that's canon. At the end of the F-Zero GX/AX story mode, the song mentions CF's Falcon Punch. Also, the game falls into a timeline, which fans have worked on based on the information in F-Zero GX/AX, such as the great crash, CF's age, Dr. Stewart's age. Regardless, it's canon, but the SSB series is not. That is a secondary source.
 

mini paincakes

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There's no question that canonically Ganondorf, Shulk and probably Palutena are the strongest. All three are basically gods. Ganondorf can only be killed by the master sword (which means he can only be killed by link and noone else), and always comes back to life when he his killed, Shulk has the monado which *SPOILER* bends reality to his will and is basically a god by the end of xenoblade. Palutena is literally a god, but I forgot the extent of her powers.

The pokemon characters, Samus, Link, Sonic, MegaMan and Pit are pretty strong too. I think Rosalina as some space powers so she's also probably pretty strong. Bowser is also pretty damn powerful, depending on which Mario game we're talking about. Robin has some pretty crazy powers too, so he's high up there on the canon power scale too.
 

ChikoLad

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I think I'll try to update this now that we have more of the roster. I also want to change around some of the old entries.

Also, I've decided that since people can take F-Zero GX as canon, I will take Hyrule Warriors as such since it can fit into the Zelda timeline just fine:

SSS: :rosalina::4shulk:
SS::4sonic::4kirby:
S: :4bowser::4palutena::4pit::4darkpit::4link::4zelda::4sheik::4ganondorf::4samus::4metaknight::4myfriends::4robinm::4robinf::4megaman::4falcon::4ness:
A::4tlink::4fox::4falco::4charizard::4pikachu::4lucario::4bowserjr::4marth::4lucina::4wario::4zss::4dedede::4peach::4mario::4drmario::4luigi:
B: :4greninja::4dk::4diddy::4larry::4roy::4wendy::4iggy::4morton::4lemmy::4ludwig::4yoshi:
C: :4olimar::4alph::4wiifit::4wiifitm:
X::4duckhunt::4gaw::4jigglypuff::4pacman::4rob::4villager::4villagerf::4mii::4miif::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword:
 

josh bones

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I think I'll try to update this now that we have more of the roster. I also want to change around some of the old entries.

Also, I've decided that since people can take F-Zero GX as canon, I will take Hyrule Warriors as such since it can fit into the Zelda timeline just fine:

SSS: :4shulk::rosalina:
SS::4sonic::4kirby:
S: :4bowser::4palutena::4pit::4darkpit::4link::4zelda::4sheik::4ganondorf::4samus::4metaknight::4myfriends::4robinm::4robinf::4megaman::4falcon::4ness:
A::4tlink::4fox::4falco::4charizard::4pikachu::4lucario::4bowserjr::4marth::4lucina::4wario::4zss::4dedede::4peach::4mario::4drmario::4luigi:
B: :4greninja::4dk::4diddy::4larry::4roy::4wendy::4iggy::4morton::4lemmy::4ludwig::4yoshi:
C: :4olimar::4alph::4wiifit::4wiifitm:
X::4duckhunt::4gaw::4jigglypuff::4pacman::4rob::4villager::4villagerf::4mii::4miif::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword:
On the ones you put in X,
:4rob:is a toy and therefore is the weakest, :4gaw:is a composite character of all the game and watch minigames and should be judged by that. :4pacman:should be bottom of b/ top of c, :4jigglypuff:should be below olimar above WFT.
Otherwise, :4dk: should be in a tier. :4dedede: should be in b, and so should :4drmario:
 

Crystanium

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I'll be reposting feats for Samus.

Speed Booster energy, newtons, tons-force, and g-force
The Speed Booster allows Samus to dash at supersonic speeds, according to the Metroid Fusion and Metroid: Zero Mission manual. Because this is in the supersonic range, the low-end would be 411.6 m/s (Mach 1.2). Of course, the fact that "speeds" is plural, I dare say it could be at least Mach 2. For now, I'll settle for Mach 1.2. Samus is known to be 90 kg., according to the Metroid II: Return of Samus manual. We can find all the information for what the title tells us.

Kinetic energy
KE = 1/2 * mv^2
KE = 1/2 * (90 kg.)(411.6 m/s)^2
KE = 7623655.2 J, or 1.82 kg. of TNT.

Newtons
F = ma
F = (90 kg.)(411.6 m/s)
F = 37,044 N

Tons-force
37,044 N * 0.22481 lbf. = 8,327.86164 lbf., or 4.16 tf

G-force
Since it takes Samus about 2 seconds in Metroid Fusion and Metroid: Zero Mission, this would require us to consider the initial velocity and final velocity. We would divide this by the time it took Samus to achieve supersonic speed. We take the final velocity and subtract it by the initial velocity and then divide by the time. So it would look like this.

a = vf - vi / t
a = 411.6 m/s^2 - 0 m/s^2 / 2 s
a = 411.6 m/s^2 / 2 s
a = 205.8 m/s

This means that after one second, Samus has gained 205.8 m/s (460.17 mi/h). This would also mean that 205.8 m/s / 9.8 m/s is 21 g, which is what Samus would be experiencing. Since Samus can stop and launch herself, she would experience 42 g. Of course, since the time varies, it could very well be a game mechanic.

Power Bomb yield
The equation I found to determine the yield for explosions is E = R^5 ρ / t^2, where E is the energy of the explosion, R is the radius, ρ is air density, and t is time. According to the Official Metroid Prime Web site, power bombs covered a radius of 10 m. Air density is 1.255 kg/m^3 at sea level, and the time it would take for an explosive, such as TNT (a common explosive in the military), would be 0.0014492753623188 seconds, or a little above 1 millisecond, but not anywhere near 2 milliseconds.

E = (10^5) * 1.255 kg/m^3 / (0.0014492753623188 s)^2
E = 59,750,550,000.0033460308000001405 J, or 14.28 tons of TNT.

Since the side-scrollers and Metroid: Other M seem to demonstrate a wider range, going up to 20 m. gives us a total of 456.98 tons of TNT.
 

PikaSamus

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Obviously Pit is the most powerful as Hades says so.
In all seriousness, I think that Samus (fully equipped in Super Metroid with max energy tanks, missiles, etc.) is the most powerful. She can dash as supersonic speeds with the speed booster.
 

IvanQuote

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I think I'll try to update this now that we have more of the roster. I also want to change around some of the old entries.

Also, I've decided that since people can take F-Zero GX as canon, I will take Hyrule Warriors as such since it can fit into the Zelda timeline just fine:

SSS: :rosalina::4shulk:
SS::4sonic::4kirby:
S: :4bowser::4palutena::4pit::4darkpit::4link::4zelda::4sheik::4ganondorf::4samus::4metaknight::4myfriends::4robinm::4robinf::4megaman::4falcon::4ness:
A::4tlink::4fox::4falco::4charizard::4pikachu::4lucario::4bowserjr::4marth::4lucina::4wario::4zss::4dedede::4peach::4mario::4drmario::4luigi:
B: :4greninja::4dk::4diddy::4larry::4roy::4wendy::4iggy::4morton::4lemmy::4ludwig::4yoshi:
C: :4olimar::4alph::4wiifit::4wiifitm:
X::4duckhunt::4gaw::4jigglypuff::4pacman::4rob::4villager::4villagerf::4mii::4miif::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword:
Wait, Alph and the Koopalings are counted in this thread? Oi vey...I have bit more to consider then.

Out of curiosity, why is Bowser Jr so far above the Koopalings, and for that matter, above Marth, Wario, and the Marios? If the Falcion doesn't critical against Bowser, then I understand that, but the Marios, unlike the case with his dad's boss arena idiocy most of the time, are clearly able to beat Jr without outside assistance. As for Wario, he's practically immortal as is.
 

Crystanium

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Obviously Pit is the most powerful as Hades says so.
In all seriousness, I think that Samus (fully equipped in Super Metroid with max energy tanks, missiles, etc.) is the most powerful. She can dash as supersonic speeds with the speed booster.
Hello, fellow Minnesotan.

Samus is pretty powerful, but I wouldn't place her at the top of the tier list. (I'm not saying you said that. Sure, I could see her being very high up on the list.) Sonic is much faster than Samus, so there is a possibility of him winning. We can't forget everyone's character, though. So if Sonic is so arrogant as to think he's better than his opponent, he'll probably lose. He would be able to travel at hypersonic speed, but I still don't know how fast he'd be able to outrun an explosion that reaches 6,900 m/s, which is 20 times the speed of sound. I haven't observed him surviving temperatures exceeding the core of the Sun, either, so . . .
 
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I think I'll try to update this now that we have more of the roster. I also want to change around some of the old entries.

Also, I've decided that since people can take F-Zero GX as canon, I will take Hyrule Warriors as such since it can fit into the Zelda timeline just fine:

SSS: :rosalina::4shulk:
SS::4sonic::4kirby:
S: :4bowser::4palutena::4pit::4darkpit::4link::4zelda::4sheik::4ganondorf::4samus::4metaknight::4myfriends::4robinm::4robinf::4megaman::4falcon::4ness:
A::4tlink::4fox::4falco::4charizard::4pikachu::4lucario::4bowserjr::4marth::4lucina::4wario::4zss::4dedede::4peach::4mario::4drmario::4luigi:
B: :4greninja::4dk::4diddy::4larry::4roy::4wendy::4iggy::4morton::4lemmy::4ludwig::4yoshi:
C: :4olimar::4alph::4wiifit::4wiifitm:
X::4duckhunt::4gaw::4jigglypuff::4pacman::4rob::4villager::4villagerf::4mii::4miif::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword:
Wait...Palutena is a goddess....she should be up there with Rosalina and Shulk. :l
 
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She's only the goddess of light.
"Only...?"
She can warp reality, you know. All those powers that Pit uses are her blessings. She has all the strength that you would think of when it comes to being a goddess. While she may not be as powerful as Hades- she did have the power to take him out.
You remember that final blast from Pit's cannon-arm(final strike)? That was Palutena's power.
 
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Champ Gold

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Through this whole thread we have discussed Gods, God killers, Suoerhumans, robots, monsters, Pocket Monster(they're different), wizards, warlocks, super skilled fighters and whatever the hell Pac-Man is.

This Guy however....
image.jpg

Has to fight all of them in same game. It's a same how a skilled fighter like Mac is somehow outclassed by these guys. Feels bad, Mac


Although he did beat Mike Tyson and he isn't just any boxer
 
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ChikoLad

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Wait, Alph and the Koopalings are counted in this thread? Oi vey...I have bit more to consider then.

Out of curiosity, why is Bowser Jr so far above the Koopalings, and for that matter, above Marth, Wario, and the Marios? If the Falcion doesn't critical against Bowser, then I understand that, but the Marios, unlike the case with his dad's boss arena idiocy most of the time, are clearly able to beat Jr without outside assistance. As for Wario, he's practically immortal as is.
Bowser Jr canonically has access to the Paintbrush and the Shadow Mario transformation, the Koopalings do not. Also, Bowser Jr is surprisingly smart and crafty, arguably more so than his father. He got Mario falsely charged with treason. Mario can defeat him just fine during in-game boss fights, but that's a case of gameplay-story segregation. I highly doubt Jr would use such obvious patterns in combat. Especially since he is seemingly more agile than Mario when using the Shadow Mario transformation.

Wait...Palutena is a goddess....she should be up there with Rosalina and Shulk. :l
"Goddess" or "God" is merely a job description.

Palutena is fairly powerful, yes, but unlike Rosalina and God-Tier Status Shulk, she has very obvious weaknesses and very defined limits, some of which she highlights herself. One of which being that she is vulnerable to mind control - a power Rosalina has access to.

Also she's pretty limited even within the KI universe. The only landscape she seems to have direct control over is Skyworld, as opposed to Rosalina, who controls and manipulates the cosmos themselves, as well as the cycle of the universe, or even Viridi and Poseidon, who control nature and the sea respectively, which are much more significant than Skyworld. Palutena can open portals in Earth's atmosphere, but nowhere else. And the Powers she grants Pit are limited use, and the Power of Flight is something she can only grant for five minutes at a time (buuut I guess this is more a limitation of Pit than one of her's). Her powers can also be "blocked out" (Pandora did this to prevent Palutena from extracting Pit).

I'm tired so I'm gonna leave it at that, but yeah, Palutena is pretty fragile as far as goddesse go. Heck, sentient carrots actually managed to prove a genuine, worrying threat to her, to the point where she ran away from them for a while. That says a lot about how vulnerable she herself knows she is.

Also, while the Underworld Army directly raiding Skyworld is an extremely common occurrence, Rosalina only ever had her home threatened once - and even then, Bowser was not brave enough to directly raid the Observatory. Instead, he had to resort to guerilla tactics - he absorbed the Observatory's energy from a great distance. And even when it was left dormant, Bowser still didn't go near it. Yet, he had no problems raiding the Mushroom Kingdom. That speaks volumes. If you have BOWSER resorting to guerilla tactics and still not touching you when your Observatory is left completely dormant, and he's perfectly fine raiding an entire kingdom, you must be a force to be reckoned with.

The fact Rosalina didn't take care of the entire situation herself in time for supper is just blatant gameplay-story segregation, as bad as Peach being kidnapped in most Mario games (the Galaxy games actually made Peach's kidnappings believeable though).
 
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Bowser Jr canonically has access to the Paintbrush and the Shadow Mario transformation, the Koopalings do not. Also, Bowser Jr is surprisingly smart and crafty, arguably more so than his father. He got Mario falsely charged with treason. Mario can defeat him just fine during in-game boss fights, but that's a case of gameplay-story segregation. I highly doubt Jr would use such obvious patterns in combat. Especially since he is seemingly more agile than Mario when using the Shadow Mario transformation.



"Goddess" or "God" is merely a job description.

Palutena is fairly powerful, yes, but unlike Rosalina and God-Tier Status Shulk, she has very obvious weaknesses and very defined limits, some of which she highlights herself. One of which being that she is vulnerable to mind control - a power Rosalina has access to.

Also she's pretty limited even within the KI universe. The only landscape she seems to have direct control over is Skyworld, as opposed to Rosalina, who controls and manipulates the cosmos themselves, as well as the cycle of the universe, or even Viridi and Poseidon, who control nature and the sea respectively, which are much more significant than Skyworld. Palutena can open portals in Earth's atmosphere, but nowhere else. And the Powers she grants Pit are limited use, and the Power of Flight is something she can only grant for five minutes at a time (buuut I guess this is more a limitation of Pit than one of her's). Her powers can also be "blocked out" (Pandora did this to prevent Palutena from extracting Pit).

I'm tired so I'm gonna leave it at that, but yeah, Palutena is pretty fragile as far as goddesse go. Heck, sentient carrots actually managed to prove a genuine, worrying threat to her, to the point where she ran away from them for a while. That says a lot about how vulnerable she herself knows she is.
Very well. I see your point and it covers everything quite well. However, do you mind if I add the other characters that were cut to your list and see what you think...?

SSS: :rosalina::4shulk:
SS::4sonic::4kirby::mewtwopm:
S: :4bowser::4palutena::4pit::4darkpit::4link::4zelda::4sheik::4ganondorf::4samus::4metaknight::4myfriends::4robinm::4robinf::4megaman::4falcon::4ness::lucas:
A::4tlink::wolf::4fox::4falco::4charizard::4lucario::4bowserjr::4marth::4lucina::roypm::4wario::4zss::4dedede::4peach::4mario::4drmario::4luigi::snake:
B: :4greninja::4pikachu::ivysaur::4dk::4diddy::4larry::4roy::4wendy::4iggy::4morton::4lemmy::4ludwig::4yoshi:
C: :4olimar::4alph::4wiifit::4wiifitm::popo::squirtle:
X::4duckhunt::4gaw::4jigglypuff::pichumelee::4pacman::4rob::4villager::4villagerf::4mii::4miif::4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword:
 
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ChikoLad

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Mewtwo is definitely on par with Sonic and Kirby, I don't even need to know a lot about him to see that. I'd put Snake in A Tier though.

The rest of the cut veterans I am simply clueless about and therefore I don't have an opinion of.
 
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Mewtwo is definitely on par with Sonic and Kirby, I don't even need to know a lot about him to see that. I'd put Snake in A Tier though.

The rest of the cut veterans I am simply clueless about and therefore I don't have an opinion of.
I moved Pikachu down and moved Snake up. While Pikachu can reach insane power levels with his Light Ball- I don't think that's enough to warrant him a spot next to Charizard and Lucario...who can annihilate him with some of their weaker attacks...
On top of that....Charizard and Lucario can both Mega Evolve, unlike Pikachu or Greninja.
 
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Crystanium

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Wait...Palutena is a goddess....she should be up there with Rosalina and Shulk. :l
It doesn't matter if they're a "god" or "goddess" (Rosalina isn't one). Fierce Deity is a god. Do you see him being this powerful being? I sure don't. Sure, he can KO bosses much faster, but that's about it.

"Only...?"
She can warp reality, you know. All those powers that Pit uses are her blessings. She has all the strength that you would think of when it comes to being a goddess. While she may not be as powerful as Hades- she did have the power to take him out.
You remember that final blast from Pit's cannon-arm(final strike)? That was Palutena's power.
I don't recall Palutena ever warping reality.

That beam took forever and that required the Great Sacred Treasure to fire. We never see Palutena fire a beam.

Most powerful? Obviously Sonic. He can go Super and pretty much kill everyone.
NOPE. CAPTAIN FALCON IS MOST POWERFUL.
He could, but he's arrogant and Robotnik causes trouble for him, so I don't see that working. Besides, can he outrun an explosion traveling 20 times faster than sound and survive temperatures (the fireball) that exceed that of the core of the Sun?
 

Crystanium

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And yes. She provides this power to Pit in the games.
Oh...and is that a beam...?
That did not address any reality warping.

That would be the beam, but again, the problem is that it took forever to fire. We also don't know how fast it's traveling, so . . .
 

PikaSamus

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That did not address any reality warping.

That would be the beam, but again, the problem is that it took forever to fire. We also don't know how fast it's traveling, so . . .
We do have a sense of distance in the Home Run Contest, but it's very terrible.
 

ChikoLad

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Sonic's arrogance being a hindrance to his fighting abilities really depends on which game we are drawing from, so I think it's an irrelevant factor, especially when most bios for him do state that he knows when to get serious.

In Sonic Colours and Sonic Lost World, his arrogance was exaggerated and did cause him to make some bad mistakes. In Sonic Unleashed, he was ready to forgive Eggman which caused the events of that entire game (so basically the opposite of arrogance, even if he was a little cheeky about it). In Sonic and the Black Knight (the best and most accurate portrayal of his character), he was pretty unforgiving of Merlina until after he defeated her, and while he was arrogant at points in that game, it did not effect his fighting. He verbally teased his opponents as he fought them, but that was it.

As for Rosalina, she's not literally referred to as a goddess but her role in the Mario universe and her boundless power are basically reflective of a goddess. She just doesn't literally go by the title (because that's all it is in fiction - a title), probably because it wouldn't be in character for her, as she has minimal arrogance (she exhibits a tiny bit in 3D World and her Mario Kart bios say she has a competitive side, at least when it comes to racing) and is quite humble.
 

Joe Blackman

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What about Mr. Game & Watch? Where would he stand? Considering he has the ability to bring forth virtually anything that's virtual.
 
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Themandme

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I love Captain Falcon, but outside Smash and the anime he's just a muscular non super powered dude. (and for the record: I like that better)

I just want to point that out because some think he's on a much higher tier than he actually would be...
 

GunGunW

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Just show me an example outside smash and the anime and I'll believe it.

I'm just gonna throw this out there, if the anime is canon, why is Captain Falcon's name Bart Lemming/Andy Summers instead of Douglas Jay Falcon? At the very least it's not the same Captain Falcon. Hm, maybe the anime is canon? Maybe it just takes place after the main games? So maybe the original (Doug) passes the title down to Bart and they go from there? Just a thought.
 
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Crystanium

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Sonic's arrogance being a hindrance to his fighting abilities really depends on which game we are drawing from, so I think it's an irrelevant factor, especially when most bios for him do state that he knows when to get serious.
If it depends on which game, then either Sonic doesn't have a consistent personalty, making him possibly someone who suffers dissociative identity disorder, or there are various incarnations of Sonic. Character is relevant in these matches as much as feats. If you have these bios, please post them from the original sources. Otherwise, I'll dismiss this on the basis that you lack evidence.

In Sonic Colours and Sonic Lost World, his arrogance was exaggerated and did cause him to make some bad mistakes. In Sonic Unleashed, he was ready to forgive Eggman which caused the events of that entire game (so basically the opposite of arrogance, even if he was a little cheeky about it). In Sonic and the Black Knight (the best and most accurate portrayal of his character), he was pretty unforgiving of Merlina until after he defeated her, and while he was arrogant at points in that game, it did not effect his fighting. He verbally teased his opponents as he fought them, but that was it.
But the question is whether or not Sonic can outrun something traveling Mach 20 and if he can withstand temperatures exceeding the core of the Sun in his super form.

As for Rosalina, she's not literally referred to as a goddess but her role in the Mario universe and her boundless power are basically reflective of a goddess. She just doesn't literally go by the title (because that's all it is in fiction - a title), probably because it wouldn't be in character for her, as she has minimal arrogance (she exhibits a tiny bit in 3D World and her Mario Kart bios say she has a competitive side, at least when it comes to racing) and is quite humble.
I suppose I'll have to go back several pages and read your arguments.
 

ChikoLad

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If it depends on which game, then either Sonic doesn't have a consistent personalty, making him possibly someone who suffers dissociative identity disorder, or there are various incarnations of Sonic. Character is relevant in these matches as much as feats. If you have these bios, please post them from the original sources. Otherwise, I'll dismiss this on the basis that you lack evidence.
It isn't an identity disorder, Sonic just has been under many different writers, even within the main series, which has led to some inconsistent portrayals at times. The current writers of Sonic games (who debuted in Colours) have actually fully admitted to not playing or experiencing much of Sonic before, hence why some of their poor decisions for the character (such as his over-exaggerated arrogance in recent games) exist in the first place.

Most Sonic games have been pretty consistent though, and I'd say Sonic and the Black Knight was the epitome, as it managed to incorporate all of the most relevant aspects of his character, due to the story having a mixed tone (it was sometimes light hearted, sometimes serious). While most other Sonic games didn't, as they were too far into one territory (humourous or serious). Sonic Unleashed and Sonic and the Secret Rings also portrayed him really well though, and are consistent with a lot of aspects in other games.

As far as him having different incarnations, he does have different ones, but the "Game Sonic" is all one universe, and it's the same Sonic (proven in Sonic Generations, since that game revolves around Sonic visiting areas "from his past", and meeting his past self, Classic Sonic) across the board. Unless you consider the upcoming Sonic Boom games (which is confirmed to be an alternate universe with no relation to the mainline games), Sonic games are all one universe.

In regards to Sonics arrogance, I'm struggling to find any official bios currently posted online, though most paraphrased accounts of the character do note that his arrogance is more displayed in light hearted situations and not in a serious battle.

An example is shown here, where Sonic initiates a discussion before he takes to fighting:


But the question is whether or not Sonic can outrun something traveling Mach 20 and if he can withstand temperatures exceeding the core of the Sun in his super form.
Sonic has been hinted at being able to move faster than the speed of light in his default form ("Light Speed Dash", and "Light Speed Attack" are two of his named abilities, for example).

Also Super Sonic is literally invincible. Sonic cannot be damaged within his Super form.

Also, he survives being within the Earth's core even in his normal form.
 
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Meta-Kraid

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Well after reading a few pages I guess I'll try:
SSS::4shulk::4palutena::4ganondorf::rosalina:
SS::pt::4bowser::4ness::4samus:
S::mewtwopm::4sonic::4link::lucas:
A::4darkpit::4pit::4kirby::4falcon::4metaknight:
B::4tlink::younglinkmelee::4megaman::4dk::4robinm::4greninja:
B-::4lucina::4myfriends::4fox::wolf::snake::4dedede:
C::4diddy::4marth::4lucario::4charizard::4bowserjr::4falco::roypm:
D::4pikachu::4mario::4peach::4luigi::4wario::4sheik::4jigglypuff::4zelda:
F::4littlemac::4zss::popo::4yoshi::pichumelee:
U::4mii::4wiifit::4olimar::4gaw::4pacman::4drmario::4duckhunt::4villager::4rob:
Unrankeds aren't necessarily low, they just fail to stand up to other threats in a way that will make them strong. The Ice Climbers can climb extremely high mountains at such a young age. Palutena outranks Ganondorf being the goddess of light. Ganondorf is affected by anything holy in my head canon, if Zelda were to list everything that could affect Ganondorf then Link would be bored to tears: and this one guy's sword who fights gods, and this goddess from Skyworld, and this goddess from the Mushroom Galaxy, and this blade blessed by this goddess... She was probably just listing what could defeat him that they knew of and were capable of using. I really have no idea where to put the Pokemon, on one hand they're capable of surviving meteor showers, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, tidal waves and being able to produce those things too. They probably should have been above Diddy Kong, but whatever. The fighters aren't ranked on whether they can defeat one another or not, but how strong they are in their own universe. The three Links have the ability to defeat Ganondorf because of a certain condition, Mewtwo could crush certain characters before they had a chance to fight back or overpower Ness, anyone can cripple Rosalina quickly by taking away the lumas. Only the top tier are based on wether they can defeat each other or not. This definitely needs some revision, but I think it's a good start.
 
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