Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Turokman5896]

Again, like my entire last post pointed out, this isn't a claim you can make, since Ganondorf has never faced power or technology from the other Nintendo worlds, in canon. What you are saying is no different to saying "I can totally win a race against Usain Bolt even though I've never practiced running, nor have I researched his physical feats".

The thing is zelda specifically makes note of his invincibility. Additionally im fairly certain shulks power is limited to ether, something not found on other worlds. Plus, many very powerful sages have tried using godlike power on Ganon before, and it did nothing as he slaughtered them with ease. In his canon, only the master sword can kill him; that is a major part of his character. Powers of light, reality bending powers etc don't matter according to zelda. And this discussion is about each characters canon. In ganons canon, only one thing can kill him. Another character like this is grima. If the two fought, the battle would just take place over eternity. That is why as far as canon goes, who is stronger or who would win discussions are frustrating. Also, when does Rosalina have the power to defeat godlike figures? She didn't defeat bowser. Sure the creation of galaxies is huge, but even bowser had a galaxy creation machine...

 

[Fire Tactician]

I think Palutena's not as strong as she makes herself out to be. I'm more willing to call her bluff than any other character, honestly.

As I said before, Medusa manages to subdue and trap Palutena all by her lonesome. All the Three Sacred Treasures wind up being are enhancements for Pit's abilities, or granting him ones he should have naturally (like flight). The Three Sacred Treasures seem to have little trouble defeating Medusa (this occurs twice, mind you, and the second time they state that the Three Sacred Treasures are weakened with age and not as powerful), so that says a lot about where Palutena stands in the hierarchy of Gods/Goddesses in Kid Icarus canon, when the Three Sacred Treasures have enough power to defeat someone hypothetically Palutena's power level.

So I'd say yeah, Palutena holds rank over Pit theoretically, but their power differential isn't particularly different. If Pit has access to the Three Sacred Treasures, I'd say he stands a legitimate chance to defeat just about anyone on the Smash roster, but since it's not particularly fair to give everyone their most powerful crap, Palutena wins that match up.

Mostly what's left to decide after that is how thoroughly, if she can at all, Palutena beats Ganondorf, and we've at least got the #1 and #2 spots.

(I know this is older, but I wasn't here back then)

Agreed with the whole "calling her bluff" part. While I will say that she's massively powerful, there must be a reason as to why she sends Pit in to fight Hades, the biggest threat in their universe, and doesn't enter the battle herself. It's proven countless times in the game that while she does take Pit for granted, she cherishes him more than anything. If she was a better fighter than Pit, then why would she risk losing him by having him fight their biggest foe? Yeah, she has godly power and would easily beat most of Smash's characters, but Pit is a much better fighter. Between Pit's talent and Palutena's or Viridi's powers assisting him, the Pit is nearly unstoppable.

Unfortunately, in a Pit vs Palutena matchup, Pit takes a massive nerf, as he suddenly loses the ability to use Powers. It's possible that he could out-maneuver her and still win, but Palutena does have massive power- she essentially charged Pit's final blow to Hades, so that was mostly her power. She can also turn Pit into a ring, so she is a little more powerful than she lets on.

 

[Turokman5896]

(I know this is older, but I wasn't here back then)

Agreed with the whole "calling her bluff" part. While I will say that she's massively powerful, there must be a reason as to why she sends Pit in to fight Hades, the biggest threat in their universe, and doesn't enter the battle herself. It's proven countless times in the game that while she does take Pit for granted, she cherishes him more than anything. If she was a better fighter than Pit, then why would she risk losing him by having him fight their biggest foe? Yeah, she has godly power and would easily beat most of Smash's characters, but Pit is a much better fighter. Between Pit's talent and Palutena's or Viridi's powers assisting him, the Pit is nearly unstoppable.

Unfortunately, in a Pit vs Palutena matchup, Pit takes a massive nerf, as he suddenly loses the ability to use Powers. It's possible that he could out-maneuver her and still win, but Palutena does have massive power- she essentially charged Pit's final blow to Hades, so that was mostly her power. She can also turn Pit into a ring, so she is a little more powerful than she lets on.

I think she has lots of power, but isn't very suited for combat. Good post.

 

[ncepulo]

Kirby's eternal Stone ability can withstand anything, enough said.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Again, those characters don't have the master sword. You also must remember that ganondorf has the power of the gods. Honestly, his immense strength would win any battle as he simply waits out faster opponents. Example: sonic uses his chaos emeralds and attacks ganondorf. Ganondorf is blasted around, but doesn't sustain any damage. Eventually, sonics power is exhausted and Ganon defeats him. The reason Ganon can only be damaged by that sword is the master sword has the power of the gods of his world. Powers from other realms would do nothing.

EDIT: this is why I am often frustrated by "canon" battles. Characters like ganondorf or Ichigo have ludicrous advantages due to plot devices in their respective series.

Ganondorf is a reincarnation of the dark god demise. Shulk's sword literally has 3 setting. The first one allows the sword to effectively kill mechanical beings. The second allows him to kill sapient beings (people and other humanoids.) The third allows him to kill gods.

The Monado has a "Kill Gods" setting. Ganondorf is essentially a god. Shulk > Dorf.

 

[ChikoLad]

The thing is zelda specifically makes note of his invincibility. Additionally im fairly certain shulks power is limited to ether, something not found on other worlds. Plus, many very powerful sages have tried using godlike power on Ganon before, and it did nothing as he slaughtered them with ease. In his canon, only the master sword can kill him; that is a major part of his character. Powers of light, reality bending powers etc don't matter according to zelda. And this discussion is about each characters canon. In ganons canon, only one thing can kill him. Another character like this is grima. If the two fought, the battle would just take place over eternity. That is why as far as canon goes, who is stronger or who would win discussions are frustrating. Also, when does Rosalina have the power to defeat godlike figures? She didn't defeat bowser. Sure the creation of galaxies is huge, but even bowser had a galaxy creation machine...

But that one thing is based off of limited experimentation. The Hyrulians only had so many resources, and the Master Sword is the only one that worked. That's why they say "only the Master Sword can defeat Ganondorf". It doesn't imply "nothing from other worlds could work either". Because they can't enter other worlds.

And Rosalina is a goddess herself. She's immortal (has lived for an immeasurable amount of time, at least a few centuries, and has lived through multiple universes without losing recollection of the previous universes), and she herself tends to what I call the "Cosmic Cycle" (the process of the universe being re-imagined and changed). She's responsible for watching over and protecting all of the cosmos, something only someone with god-tier power could do.

Bowser had a Galaxy creation machine, but that was made using energy extracted from Power Stars, and would be a slow process regardless (hence why he needed to keep collecting energy for it). Rosalina naturally handles the exact same process, it's basically part of her job description.

She didn't defeat Bowser in Galaxy because the game is called "Super Mario Galaxy", and without arbitrarily making her stay at the Observatory (though you can justify it using various plot elements), we would have no Mario game. She can do it just fine in 3D World anyway. What you're asking is no different than asking "why doesn't Mega Man teleport straight to the boss?".

-------------------------------

There's been these advertisements posted across the Yamanote Line and Chuou Line in Japan that seem to depict match-ups that all have some relevant rivalries:

 

[Turokman5896]

Ganondorf is a reincarnation of the dark god demise. Shulk's sword literally has 3 setting. The first one allows the sword to effectively kill mechanical beings. The second allows him to kill sapient beings (people and other humanoids.) The third allows him to kill gods.

The Monado has a "Kill Gods" setting. Ganondorf is essentially a god. Shulk > Dorf.

Your missing my point. Zelda canon specifically states what works and what doesn't. The monado's power doesn't matter because zelda specifically says that the master sword can fell him; and that's it. Same thing with grima. This is canon. And their canon's specifically state their power and invincibility. Shulks power is hardly as specific. It doesn't say, shulk can kill any being even if they cannot be killed by the monado. Ganons says, he cannot be killed except by the master sword. Now, assuming the monado can hurt Ganon is a hypothetical, there are no facts from zelda to support that possibility. That is why these canon discussions frequently dead end.

Edit: Rosalina lost the stars and relies on Lumas for her galaxy creation. She doesn't create something out of nothing. She utilizes Lumas as a power source. Not saying she isn't extremely powerful, but she couldn't stop bowser when he stole all of the power stars. In addition, she couldn't travel to bowser without her observatory. I don't think she is the end all be all of powerful characters. Remember this is canon. Based only on events and story from the actual games, not possibilities or assumptions of power.

 

[IvanQuote]

Ganon can only be hurt by the master sword. Additionally, he has massive power and can bring about the apocalypse. No matter how fast or powerful the others' attacks are, Ganon won't be affected.

Zelda 1 says otherwise. Also, I'm pretty sure it's mainly holy/light power that removes the invincibility, not just the Master Sword. Eg. In OOT, he got pumped full of Light Arrows in the first phase, but the Master Sword is negligible because you can hurt him with bombs at that point. When he turns into Ganon, he had been affected by so much light that even Deku Nuts could hurt him. In every game however, he is finished by light attack (either the Master Sword or Silver/Light Arrows). Keep in mind though that the Arrows are far better at killing him than the Master Sword. In TP, the Master Sword killed him, but in the previous dungeon, it became the Master Sword of Light, so it's something other than just the Master Sword. Also, if you assume Malladus from Spirit Tracks is a Demise incarnation, the Master Sword wasn't present, but Light Arrows were (granted, he was dying at the time of the battle, but still)

 

[Turokman5896]

Zelda 1 says otherwise. Also, I'm pretty sure it's mainly holy/light power that removes the invincibility, not just the Master Sword. Eg. In OOT, he got pumped full of Light Arrows in the first phase, but the Master Sword is negligible because you can hurt him with bombs at that point. When he turns into Ganon, he had been affected by so much light that even Deku Nuts could hurt him. In every game however, he is finished by light attack (either the Master Sword or Silver/Light Arrows). Keep in mind though that the Arrows are far better at killing him than the Master Sword. In TP, the Master Sword killed him, but in the previous dungeon, it became the Master Sword of Light, so it's something other than just the Master Sword. Also, if you assume Malladus from Spirit Tracks is a Demise incarnation, the Master Sword wasn't present, but Light Arrows were (granted, he was dying at the time of the battle, but still)

The arrows of light can hurt but not kill. (looked it up out of curiousity. They can kill him, but because they are blessed by the goddesses, not because they are light, so we're back to where we started :/) Regarding TP requiring the master sword to increase in power is more evidence to his survivabilify. The biggest threats to Ganon would likely be pit and palutena, just did to the fact that their powers would actually illicit some damage. However, remember that Ganon doesn't even instantly die due to the master sword; he has actually defeated link anyway. I definitely think that Ganon has artificial plot protection due to his game'a canon; just like grima or hades.

Btw, pit and palutena could definitely lock him away, but I'm operating under the assumption that locking away does not equal victory. If that is the case, things change drastically,

 

[Ravio_Yo]

Three things.

Rosalina isn't a god.

Rosalina didn't create the universe.

Being a god means NOTHING.

 

[Turokman5896]

Would meta knight be able to beat Marth and Lucina together?

 

[Andyjoe522]

Okay, for the record, this is coming from a HUGE Zelda fan. The only thing truly special about the Master Sword is it's blessing from the goddesses of Hyrule. Without that, it's little more than an ordinary blade, and can't do jack against Ganondorf, as seen in Wind Waker. From that I always interpreted Ganon's weakness as being towards holy magic, such as the fully powered Master Sword and the silver arrows from earlier games. Now those two weapons are the only things in Zelda canon that have taken down Ganondorf, but outside of Zelda canon, even among the games represented in Smash Bros., weapons enchanted with the powers of deities not much different from Hyrule's own golden trio are a dime a dozen. I'm certain that in a canonical setting, weapons like Falchion, Ragnell, or the sacred treasures from Kid Icarus could take him down just as well if not better than the Master Sword can. And don't get me started on the Monado...

Spoiler: Xenoblade spoilers, although the bulk of them have already been mentioned in this thread anyway.

which is LITERALLY the physical manifestation of a God's soul (and not a Greek/Romanesque god like in Kid Icarus or arguably even the golden trio, I'm talking "can destroy and recreate the entire universe on a whim, can view everything in all of existence at any given time" God) (although if you really want to get technical about it Zanza and Meyneth are based on the gnostic concept of the demiurge, so while they are the most powerful beings of all the physical universe even their power has a [ridiculously high] limit).

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Bowser. He's come back from death about 39 times, more than any other character, so he is factually the most immortal. Ganon might be second with around 21 resurrections. It doesn't matter how much stronger someone else is if these guys are immortal and are proven to be unable to die.

Also, if Rosalina was more powerful than Bowser, she wouldn't request Mario's help to beat him. Rosalina probably can be killed, but we know for a fact Bowser has about 39 lives.

I understand the question might be "who is the most powerful" ie deals the strongest force of attacks. Then it might be Rosalina or Shulk or someone. But if Strength is to include survival ability, I'm going with Bowser.

Sonic can't knock out national pokedex trainer as he has control over time.

Except that the gauntlets don't increase Link's damage dealt per swing. Only higher grades of sword have ever increased his damage.

The gauntlets would help with throws, maybe, but not raw damage.



In Sonic CD, Sonic's figure-eight dash is said to go literally faster than light, which is apparently useful for time travel, since time travel is a mechanic in that game. So yes, Sonic can canonically go faster than light, even without his Super form, but since this doesn't appear in later games I think we can also assume that he can only do that on Little Planet, which is the location of the story of Sonic CD and which never appears again.

Yeah I know, it's BS, but I kinda doubt that real world physics carry a whole lot of weight in a world where holding a single ring makes one immortal.

The beautiful thing about Sonic's time travel, as opposed to Trainers, is that it lines up with how time travel is theoretically possible in real life. So to me that's the winner.

 

[Turokman5896]

Okay, for the record, this is coming from a HUGE Zelda fan. The only thing truly special about the Master Sword is it's blessing from the goddesses of Hyrule. Without that, it's little more than an ordinary blade, and can't do jack against Ganondorf, as seen in Wind Waker. From that I always interpreted Ganon's weakness as being towards holy magic, such as the fully powered Master Sword and the silver arrows from earlier games. Now those two weapons are the only things in Zelda canon that have taken down Ganondorf, but outside of Zelda canon, even among the games represented in Smash Bros., weapons enchanted with the powers of deities not much different from Hyrule's own golden trio are a dime a dozen. I'm certain that in a canonical setting, weapons like Falchion, Ragnell, or the sacred treasures from Kid Icarus could take him down just as well if not better than the Master Sword can. And don't get me started on the Monado...

Spoiler: Xenoblade spoilers, although the bulk of them have already been mentioned in this thread anyway.

which is LITERALLY the physical manifestation of a God's soul (and not a Greek/Romanesque god like in Kid Icarus or arguably even the golden trio, I'm talking "can destroy and recreate the entire universe on a whim, can view everything in all of existence at any given time" God) (although if you really want to get technical about it Zanza and Meyneth are based on the gnostic concept of the demiurge, so while they are the most powerful beings of all the physical universe even their power has a [ridiculously high] limit).

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we don't know of other gods/goddesses have any bearing on ganondorf. It's pretty clear that only things from the three goddesses affect him. Seeing as though this is a canon comparison, we can only assume that those three, and those three alone can damage him. Also, the monado can change the world of the bionis, but can it change anything else? I don't know, I haven't completed the game, but this is where canon discussion heads; technicalities. Also, I think Rosalina's power is overrated or bowsers is underrated, the guy survived being thrown into the sun and robbed the power stars from the universe. Pretty badass if you ask me!

Edit: I noticed were discussing Ganon like he is a sack of bricks. He can fight with considerable powers as well. He is a very skilled swordsman, powerful magician, and absolute master of the dark arts; without even counting the triforce of power. It's not that he's just invincible, it's that he has fighting power to match. If we do assume that the other godlike figures can all damage each other, then we really get into who has more power as far as battles.

 

[DonkeyStrong]

DK of course

 

[Turokman5896]

DK of course

Dk punched the moon. Dk confirmed top tier.

@ EdreesesPieces good point. Even upon being defeated, Ganon and bowser really aren't defeated; they will always return. Personally I don't think Rosalina is super powerful in a fight, bowser overpowered the Lumas, stole her stars, and blew the universe out of whack. Rosalina didn't do anything about it, and we can't assume she could, because she didn't.

Anyway, does anyone know how that meta knight vs Lucina and Marth fight might go?

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Dk punched the moon. Dk confirmed top tier.

@ EdreesesPieces good point. Even upon being defeated, Ganon and bowser really aren't defeated; they will always return. Personally I don't think Rosalina is super powerful in a fight, bowser overpowered the Lumas, stole her stars, and blew the universe out of whack. Rosalina didn't do anything about it, and we can't assume she could, because she didn't.

Anyway, does anyone know how that meta knight vs Lucina and Marth fight might go?

Marth solos, Falchion protects him from attacks.

 

[Turokman5896]

Marth solos, Falchion protects him from attacks.

Really? He can die in game right? So can Lucina and she has the falchion too. I'm obviously missing out on some relevant backstory for Marth.

 

[JanitorOfHyrule]

Three characters by what i've seen of them Samus Robin and Shulk

 

[Fire Tactician]

Anyway, does anyone know how that meta knight vs Lucina and Marth fight might go?

Well, Marth and Lucina are just ordinary swordsmen. Excellent swordsmen, but they're just humans all the same. Meta Knight seems to have the ability to warp space and is an expert swordsman himself, so I think that he has an edge.

To go into more specifics, Marth has high Speed and Agility, so he's able to dodge most slower enemies. However, Meta Knight's speed makes that point moot. After losing his ability to dodge and hit dragons well, Marth really is lackluster in FE. I think that a swordsman that has some magic and similar speed would be able to take him.

Lucina is trickier. In the story, her strength rivals (or surpasses) her father's, and Chrom is known to be one of the strongest men in Ylisse. However, considering the skills and stats that she gets ingame, she's often one of the most powerful units in the game. Her talents could put her on a more even level with Meta Knight, since she has more bulk and strength than Marth.

 

[Turokman5896]

Well, Marth and Lucina are just ordinary swordsmen. Excellent swordsmen, but they're just humans all the same. Meta Knight seems to have the ability to warp space and is an expert swordsman himself, so I think that he has an edge.

To go into more specifics, Marth has high Speed and Agility, so he's able to dodge most slower enemies. However, Meta Knight's speed makes that point moot. After losing his ability to dodge and hit dragons well, Marth really is lackluster in FE. I think that a swordsman that has some magic and similar speed would be able to take him.

Lucina is trickier. In the story, her strength rivals (or surpasses) her father's, and Chrom is known to be one of the strongest men in Ylisse. However, considering the skills and stats that she gets ingame, she's often one of the most powerful units in the game. Her talents could put her on a more even level with Meta Knight, since she has more bulk and strength than Marth.

I think meta knight would be able to handle them since he can warp space.

 

[Fire Tactician]

I think meta knight would be able to handle them since he can warp space.

Agreed. Lucina would do better than Marth, but Meta Knight would still come out on top. Maybe the two FE reps could coordinate attacks to win, but Meta Knight has a big advantage.

This is coming from a big FE fan who hasn't played much of Kirby's series. I love my FE reps, but they're low on the Smash totem pole.

 

[Zink Imp]

If we talk about Robin, are we also talking about Grima?
Awakening's story left me kinda confused.

 

[Turokman5896]

If we talk about Robin, are we also talking about Grima?
Awakening's story left me kinda confused.

I personally seperate the two, but it's your call I suppose

 

[Ultinarok]

God Tier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHy6-NnIvdg

F Tier:
Everyone else.

 

[Fire Tactician]

If we talk about Robin, are we also talking about Grima?
Awakening's story left me kinda confused.

Robin from one time line is Robin with Grima possessing him.

Robin from the story of FE:A isn't possessed and doesn't have the strength of Grima, so I'd say to keep them separate. This is the Robin that appears in Smash Bros.

 

[Turokman5896]

God Tier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHy6-NnIvdg

F Tier:
Everyone else.

I go back on my previous statements; falcon is god tier.

 

[Gameboi834]

God Tier:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHy6-NnIvdg

F Tier:
Everyone else.

A) That's not canon
B) His punch is not the thing that actually causes that explosion

But yes, it is an awesome scene.

 

[Ultinarok]

A) That's not canon
B) His punch is not the thing that actually causes that explosion

But yes, it is an awesome scene.

A) I know.

B) I know.

Doesn't matter, cause' its Falcon. He makes these things canon.

 

[LiamMail]

As was said, Ganondorf is invencible to anything that is not holy, so basically only Link, Zelda or possibly Palutena and Pit would be able to beat him.

I don't know how strong the Psychic boys are (Ness and Lucas), but Mewtwo is able to destroy whole buildings with just a mere thought, he is also able to teleport a whole mountain to another location so...

Sonic also runs so incredibly fast that anyone who isn't able to hold him would probably not be able to hit him at all.

Palutena can beat sonic

 

[the8thark]

Sonic also runs so incredibly fast that anyone who isn't able to hold him would probably not be able to hit him at all.

Captain Falcon in the Blue Falcon at over 1000 KM an hour would easily outpace Sonic. And Sonic's speed is really only straight line. To turn around, he has to slow down a lot.

 

[kirby_queen]

Kirby!! Haha. Totally biased but I do think Kirby is one of the strongest video game characters ever. In fact he's overpowered for a platformer hero, having skills that allow him to easily overcome staple features of the genre such as floating over pitfalls and taking more than one hit. (This is done so his games are beginner friendly)

Than in the canon of the games, Kirby has exploded with no damage, cracked a planet in half, is a living high density source, He can set himself on fire, change forms, instantly become a master of any weaponry or ability by consuming it, Can eat things MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCH bigger than him with Hyper Nova, able to command super abilities which are various massive and impressive attacks (control over a phoenix, building size sword, earth shaking hammer, etc) and he's defeated some crazy boss characters who pose a massive cosmic threat.. etc

All this and he's still a baby.

 

[Muster]

Really? He can die in game right? So can Lucina and she has the falchion too. I'm obviously missing out on some relevant backstory for Marth.

In the original game, only dragon enemies can hurt Marth when equipped with the Falchion

Robin from one time line is Robin with Grima possessing him.

Robin from the story of FE:A isn't possessed and doesn't have the strength of Grima, so I'd say to keep them separate. This is the Robin that appears in Smash Bros.

Robin can single handedly take on Grima in his timeline and in the Future past one, however.

I can't believe people are actually arguing Shulk would lose to anyone. even if he would lose a fight, he'd have a vision and change the future, just like he does all the time.

 

[Fire Tactician]

In the original game, only dragon enemies can hurt Marth when equipped with the Falchion

Robin can single handedly take on Grima in his timeline and in the Future past one, however.

I can't believe people are actually arguing Shulk would lose to anyone. even if he would lose a fight, he'd have a vision and change the future, just like he does all the time.

Ah, I didn't know that about the Falchion, but unfortunately Shadow Dragon canonically confirms that this is no longer true (and if we want to go into particulars, SSB4 Marth is based off the SD version of Marth).

While Robin can take on Grima, he can't transform into a giant dragon and command an army of Risen. They have different types of power, so I wouldn't attribute Grima's strengths to Robin in Smash.

 

[IvanQuote]

Well, Marth and Lucina are just ordinary swordsmen. Excellent swordsmen, but they're just humans all the same. Meta Knight seems to have the ability to warp space and is an expert swordsman himself, so I think that he has an edge.

To go into more specifics, Marth has high Speed and Agility, so he's able to dodge most slower enemies. However, Meta Knight's speed makes that point moot. After losing his ability to dodge and hit dragons well, Marth really is lackluster in FE. I think that a swordsman that has some magic and similar speed would be able to take him.

Lucina is trickier. In the story, her strength rivals (or surpasses) her father's, and Chrom is known to be one of the strongest men in Ylisse. However, considering the skills and stats that she gets ingame, she's often one of the most powerful units in the game. Her talents could put her on a more even level with Meta Knight, since she has more bulk and strength than Marth.

Not to mention he's a small target at 8 inches tall and can fly about 30 mph when turning. He'd win against them and perhaps Roy and Ike too (not really sure about either, but the ranged fire attacks from their swords must be good for something, so I think it would be much closer.)

 

[Turokman5896]

In the original game, only dragon enemies can hurt Marth when equipped with the Falchion

Robin can single handedly take on Grima in his timeline and in the Future past one, however.

I can't believe people are actually arguing Shulk would lose to anyone. even if he would lose a fight, he'd have a vision and change the future, just like he does all the time.

Visions don't always happen. Additionally, In the game you can die all the time despite visions. Plus the visions can be kinda vague.

 

[Muster]

Ah, I didn't know that about the Falchion, but unfortunately Shadow Dragon canonically confirms that this is no longer true (and if we want to go into particulars, SSB4 Marth is based off the SD version of Marth).

This is a case of most recent interpretation from most powerful. You can take the most recent version of Ganondorf, Rosalina, or Marth to gimp them power wise, but i will be taking the most powerful version for argument's sake.

While Robin can take on Grima, he can't transform into a giant dragon and command an army of Risen. They have different types of power, so I wouldn't attribute Grima's strengths to Robin in Smash.

I'm just saying that even though Grima has this strength, Robin can potentially and easily overcome all of this and defeat the Fell Dragon himself.

Captain Falcon in the Blue Falcon at over 1000 KM an hour would easily outpace Sonic. And Sonic's speed is really only straight line. To turn around, he has to slow down a lot.

If we follow comics as sonic canon, he runs the speed of light and sound regularly.

Visions don't always happen. Additionally, In the game you can die all the time despite visions. Plus the visions can be kinda vague.

this is all before the end of the game. When Shulk has the Monado III he can change anything and predict everything having full control over its power.

 

[Fire Tactician]

Not to mention he's a small target at 8 inches tall and can fly about 30 mph when turning. He'd win against them and perhaps Roy and Ike too (not really sure about either, but the ranged fire attacks from their swords must be good for something, so I think it would be much closer.)

From what I've heard, Roy's rather lackluster in his game (stat-wise), but I don't know about his story much.

Ike is a beast of a unit with extremely high stats (except for Magic, but that's fair), but he's swinging a giant sword at a small target, so I'm sure he'd have some difficulties fighting Meta Knight. He is imbued by the power of a goddess at one point, but that's only for a super-attack and isn't usable at whim like Meta Knight's skills.

 

[Fire Tactician]

This is a case of most recent interpretation from most powerful. You can take the most recent version of Ganondorf, Rosalina, or Marth to gimp them power wise, but i will be taking the most powerful version for argument's sake.

Right, but the thing is that Shadow Dragon is a remake of his original game- it's the developers doing a retcon of an archaic game. This allows them to "fix" mistakes and establish a more modern canon. The Marth in FE1 and FE11 are the same Marth, but the FE11 version is the updated version. Yes, Ganondorf and Rosalina have made more recent appearances, but their original adventures were left in-tact and remain canon. Marth, however, has been redone, and for all we know, the immunity to non-dragons could have been a glitch that they fixed. We see Marth as the way that Intelligent Studios intends him to be in Shadow Dragon.

 

[Muster]

Right, but the thing is that Shadow Dragon is a remake of his original game- it's the developers doing a retcon of an archaic game. This allows them to "fix" mistakes and establish a more modern canon. The Marth in FE1 and FE11 are the same Marth, but the FE11 version is the updated version. Yes, Ganondorf and Rosalina have made more recent appearances, but their original adventures were left in-tact and remain canon. Marth, however, has been redone, and for all we know, the immunity to non-dragons could have been a glitch that they fixed. We see Marth as the way that Intelligent Studios intends him to be in Shadow Dragon.

This is Marth that the modern Intelligent studios is using in game. A studios with different staff members and developers than before. The invincibility was also certainly not a glitch, as it was stated to seal attacks that are from non dragon enemies.
This is an argument of semantics in a thread about character's powers, as such i'm going to ask you to stop this discussion here.