Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Turokman5896]

This is Marth that the modern Intelligent studios is using in game. A studios with different staff members and developers than before. The invincibility was also certainly not a glitch, as it was stated to seal attacks that are from non dragon enemies.
This is an argument of semantics in a thread about character's powers, as such i'm going to ask you to stop this discussion here.

Semantics are vital in canon discussions. Hence why canon discussions dead end like this. Example, Ganon is only effected by things from the three goddesses, not any random god or goddess. Therefore Ganon cannot die. It's all semantics and viewpoints.

 

[Zink Imp]

I can detest to Marth's invincibility because I have the game on the Famicom.

Kirby's eternal Stone ability can withstand anything, enough said.

Except fire.

 

[ncepulo]

I can detest to Marth's invincibility because I have the game on the Famicom.

Except fire.

In what game?

 

[thatoneguy1]

we just ignoring the fact that team star fox has bombs, arwings, tanks?

 

[ChikoLad]

Dk punched the moon. Dk confirmed top tier.

@EdreesesPieces good point. Even upon being defeated, Ganon and bowser really aren't defeated; they will always return. Personally I don't think Rosalina is super powerful in a fight, bowser overpowered the Lumas, stole her stars, and blew the universe out of whack. Rosalina didn't do anything about it, and we can't assume she could, because she didn't.

Anyway, does anyone know how that meta knight vs Lucina and Marth fight might go?

Gameplay-story segregation is why Rosalina didn't do it. This is like asking "why doesn't Mega Man just teleport to the Robot Master?"

Examples of known abilities Rosalina has been seen doing in Mario games:

-She can platform just fine (3D World)
-She can perform the Spin Attack (3D World)
-Can shield herself (try jumping on her in the Observatory)
-Teleportation (very first cutscene in Galaxy)
-Control over gravity (can pull Mario back to safe land when he falls off the Observatory, and it's implemented into her Smash moveset in her grabs and floatiness)
-Self levitation and flight (various cutscenes in Galaxy)
-Can create doppelgangers of herself (Cosmic Spirit in Galaxy 2)
-Mind control (if you accept the help of the Cosmic Spirit in Galaxy 2, she will take control of Mario's mind and guide him to the Star in the level. There is a specific cutscene for this)
-Can change size at will (in the ending of Galaxy 1, she presents herself as a giantess)
-Control over the universe's rebirth (proven that it's her that does it because Rosalina and everything pertaining to her is unchanged when the universe is reborn - plus, trying to claim it isn't her would create two gaping plot holes in the Galaxy lore)

There's more but I think I've more than made my point.

Rosalina is unimaginably powerful. She has a wide variety of abilities, some of which don't even have any real relation to the space theme. Like I said before, we haven't near seen what she's capable of.

Bowser is a wimp in comparison, even if he is durable. The only reason Rosalina "needed" Mario's help is because Mario is the star of the Super Mario franchise, and if we let Rosalina do her thing, Galaxy would be over really quickly.

It should also be noted that Miyamoto initially opposed Rosalina's creation, so that may have caused some bias in terms of limiting what she could actually do in the story.

I seriously don't get why people are STILL so opposed to her being powerful when she has displayed so many abilities, and has displayed no limits to her power. Unlike, say, Plautena, she never says anything like "oh I can only make you fly for five minutes at a time", or "I can only let you use Powers so many times".

 

[Turokman5896]

Gameplay-story segregation is why Rosalina didn't do it. This is like asking "why doesn't Mega Man just teleport to the Robot Master?"

Examples of known abilities Rosalina has been seen doing in Mario games:

-She can platform just fine (3D World)
-She can perform the Spin Attack (3D World)
-Can shield herself (try jumping on her in the Observatory)
-Teleportation (very first cutscene in Galaxy)
-Control over gravity (can pull Mario back to safe land when he falls off the Observatory, and it's implemented into her Smash moveset in her grabs and floatiness)
-Self levitation and flight (various cutscenes in Galaxy)
-Can create doppelgangers of herself (Cosmic Spirit in Galaxy 2)
-Mind control (if you accept the help of the Cosmic Spirit in Galaxy 2, she will take control of Mario's mind and guide him to the Star in the level. There is a specific cutscene for this)
-Can change size at will (in the ending of Galaxy 1, she presents herself as a giantess)
-Control over the universe's rebirth (proven that it's her that does it because Rosalina and everything pertaining to her is unchanged when the universe is reborn - plus, trying to claim it isn't her would create two gaping plot holes in the Galaxy lore)

There's more but I think I've more than made my point.

Rosalina is unimaginably powerful. She has a wide variety of abilities, some of which don't even have any real relation to the space theme. Like I said before, we haven't near seen what she's capable of.

Bowser is a wimp in comparison, even if he is durable. The only reason Rosalina "needed" Mario's help is because Mario is the star of the Super Mario franchise, and if we let Rosalina do her thing, Galaxy would be over really quickly.

It should also be noted that Miyamoto initially opposed Rosalina's creation, so that may have caused some bias in terms of limiting what she could actually do in the story.

I seriously don't get why people are STILL so opposed to her being powerful when she has displayed so many abilities, and has displayed no limits to her power. Unlike, say, Plautena, she never says anything like "oh I can only make you fly for five minutes at a time", or "I can only let you use Powers so many times".

Again, she doesn't do that in game! Mind control? There is no evidence of this, only your assumption. Looking at the story, bowser takes over the universe leaving her stranded and requiring Mario's help. That's it. We go by what's in game, not what you think could happen. Additionally, bowser takes the Lumas, Rosalina's power. She doesn't create new universes, she guides Lumas.

Compared to characters like ganondorf or shulk, she is severely limited in power considering she could not even stop bowser. Any attempt to say, "well otherwise we wouldn't get the game" is pointless.

Honestly Rosalina has no evidence suggesting she is some being that can destroy anything, all we know is she can utilize Lumas effectively. But even bowser can, he can create galaxies like she can, and he overpowered all of the galaxies power stars. If Rosalina is so godlike why didn't she stop him? Because we wouldn't get the game? That is a poor argument that does not adhere to canon, which is she relies on Mario's help.

 

[ChikoLad]

Again, she doesn't do that in game! Mind control? There is no evidence of this, only your assumption. Looking at the story, bowser takes over the universe leaving her stranded and requiring Mario's help. That's it. We go by what's in game, not what you think could happen. Additionally, bowser takes the Lumas, Rosalina's power. She doesn't create new universes, she guides Lumas.

Compared to characters like ganondorf or shulk, she is severely limited in power considering she could not even stop bowser. Any attempt to say, "well otherwise we wouldn't get the game" is pointless.

Honestly Rosalina has no evidence suggesting she is some being that can destroy anything, all we know is she can utilize Lumas effectively. But even bowser can, he can create galaxies like she can, and he overpowered all of the galaxies power stars. If Rosalina is so godlike why didn't she stop him? Because we wouldn't get the game? That is a poor argument that does not adhere to canon, which is she relies on Mario's help.

I presented my evidence in brackets. Go search up those points if you don't believe me. I can't post them right now as I'm on my phone but you can find them with ease and I assure you I will be back tomorrow with pictures/GIFs/more details if you don't accept them, at which point, denying me will be confirmation bias and far from logical.

"Gameplay-story segregation" is a completely valid point in explaining why Rosalina doesn't defeat Bowser. Again, ask yourself "why doesn't Mega Man teleport to the Robot Masters?". It's clear that he can since he does just that after dying to them. The only reason he doesn't do it is gameplay-story segregation - you wouldn't have much of a game if Mega Man teleported straight to the bosses. That is literally the only reason. Similarly, it's why Rosalina doesn't take on Bowser herself, even though she is more than capable (proven in 3D World outright, where she can defeat him using her most basic abilities, even when he's powered up by the Super Bell and Double Cherry).

 

[Gameboi834]

There is no evidence of this, only your assumption.

0:39. Mind control.

 

[Turokman5896]

I presented my evidence in brackets. Go search up those points if you don't believe me. I can't post them right now as I'm on my phone but you can find them with ease and I assure you I will be back tomorrow with pictures/GIFs/more details if you don't accept them, at which point, denying me will be confirmation bias and far from logical.

"Gameplay-story segregation" is a completely valid point in explaining why Rosalina doesn't defeat Bowser. Again, ask yourself "why doesn't Mega Man teleport to the Robot Masters?". It's clear that he can since he does just that after dying to them. The only reason he doesn't do it is gameplay-story segregation - you wouldn't have much of a game if Mega Man teleported straight to the bosses. That is literally the only reason. Similarly, it's why Rosalina doesn't take on Bowser herself, even though she is more than capable (proven in 3D World outright, where she can defeat him using her most basic abilities, even when he's powered up by the Super Bell and Double Cherry).

Again that story confirmation argument is garbage, and you know it. In game, Rosalina doesn't have that power. Additionally, that mind control could just be Mario allowing her to guide him through visions or even a way of granting special knowledge. Assuming its mind control is just that, an assumption. Which is my main point. You assume Rosalina can do these things, but really have no real reason to believe so. There is no evidence that says "Rosalina can beat bowser herself." Because she doesn't! And the story segregation is then leaving the canon, because unless it is in story it isn't canon!

Apparently, because this point is hard to understand, I will simplify this. Bowser takes over universe. Rosalina says I need Mario's help because I can't do it. Therefore, Rosalina is not the supreme ruler of the universe with infinite power. The story segregation point is moot. She was designed as a plot device that is unable to defeat the villain. She is a mentor in the Monmouth theory., her character Was designed to need Mario's help.

Additionally, you did nothing to counter the point that Rosalina isn't a creator, but a guider.

By the way, it's clear you favor Rosalina, but please actually consider my points, because you haven't actually refuted a single one And have instead made illogical assumptions about the limits of her abilities.

 

[ChikoLad]

Again that story confirmation argument is garbage, and you know it. In game, Rosalina doesn't have that power. Additionally, that mind control could just be Mario allowing her to guide him through visions or even a way of granting special knowledge. Assuming its mind control is just that, an assumption. Which is my main point. You assume Rosalina can do these things, but really have no real reason to believe so. There is no evidence that says "Rosalina can beat bowser herself." Because she doesn't! And the story segregation is then leaving the canon, because unless it is in story it isn't canon!

Additionally, you did nothing to counter the point that Rosalina isn't a creator, but a guider.

By the way, it's clear you favor Rosalina, but please actually consider my points, because you haven't actually refuted a single one And have instead made illogical assumptions about the limits of her abilities.

"You can't assume an apple is green even when you can blatantly see a green apple sitting in front of you", is all your counter argument amounts to, and I shot it down before you made your counter argument (again, the brackets contained the evidence, which you are clearly ignoring).

And if I must prove that gameplay story segregation is a thing, here's an example I'm sure everyone can't deny:

• The Super Mario Bros. series has an odd case of this. From the very beginning, Princess Peach has been the Distressed Damsel... but on almost every occasion she's been playable, she's been quite capable, whether as a fighter, athlete, or go-kart driver, and largely a match for Mario... which raises the question of how she continues to be kidnapped and require Mario to save her when she's as good as him and more than capable of defeating swarms of angry Koopas or even Samus Aran when she needs to. At this point, Nintendo seems to simply have fun with its artifacts.

 

[Turokman5896]

"You can't assume an apple is green even when you can blatantly see a green apple sitting in front of you", is all your counter argument amounts to, and I shot it down before you made your counter argument (again, the brackets contained the evidence, which you are clearly ignoring).

And if I must prove that gameplay story segregation is a thing, here's an example I'm sure everyone can't deny:

• The Super Mario Bros. series has an odd case of this. From the very beginning, Princess Peach has been the Distressed Damsel... but on almost every occasion she's been playable, she's been quite capable, whether as a fighter, athlete, or go-kart driver, and largely a match for Mario... which raises the question of how she continues to be kidnapped and require Mario to save her when she's as good as him and more than capable of defeating swarms of angry Koopas or even Samus Aran when she needs to. At this point, Nintendo seems to simply have fun with its artifacts.

it's more like you are saying "there is a person eating an apple but the apple could defend itself if it wanted to." Maybe in an alternate universe, but based solely on the story implications said apple is not able to do so. Your bracketed evidence also consist of fairly basic powers such as shielding and floating. Other larger scale powers are clearly derived from luma interaction, which bowser can also command.

I don't see how floating or controlling gravity makes a godlike figure when bowser, who you say is a wimp, creates dark matter and also manipulated gravitational effect. Again, you use the same tired argument that has no implications in a canon argument. If this were a hypothetical "assume x can do y" I might be more inclined to agree. However, you are not viewing ny points with any actual thought as your responses all boil down to "I'm right cause I think it could happen." This is about what does happen, and then comparing strengths from there. Rosalina requires Mario's help. That is a fact from the game. Rosalina utilizes Lumas. That is a fact from the game. "Rosalina is an infinitely powerful figure and needs Mario's help only as an excuse for the game" is a hypothetical concept. We can't say so for sure.

Let me compare this to ganons plight. In zelda is says, "only things blessed by the three goddesses can kill him." Therefore, other goddesses or things blessed by gods don't effect him because the game says it just be those three.

Back to Rosalina. she needs Mario's help. Bowser stole her Lumas, and power stars. It's clear she can utilize Lumas to rearrange matter, but it doesn't mean she is a creator of the universe. Therefore, we can conclude that Rosalina is not some ultimate goddess capable of anything, as she couldn't defeat bowser on her own. She was designed not to. Any attempt to say she can leaves the 100% fact zone and delves into hypothetical, which I am not discussing.

I honestly can't see how on earth you can disagree with the idea that your view of Rosalina is at least partly based on hypothetical.

 

[ChikoLad]

it's more like you are saying "there is a person eating an apple but the apple could defend itself if it wanted to." Maybe in an alternate universe, but based solely on the story implications said apple is not able to do so. Your bracketed evidence also consist of fairly basic powers such as shielding and floating. Other larger scale powers are clearly derived from luma interaction, which bowser can also command.

I don't see how floating or controlling gravity makes a godlike figure when bowser, who you say is a wimp, creates dark matter and also manipulated gravitational effect. Again, you use the same tired argument that has no implications in a canon argument. If this were a hypothetical "assume x can do y" I might be more inclined to agree. However, you are not viewing ny points with any actual thought as your responses all boil down to "I'm right cause I think it could happen." This is about what does happen, and then comparing strengths from there. Rosalina requires Mario's help. That is a fact from the game. Rosalina utilizes Lumas. That is a fact from the game. "Rosalina is an infinitely powerful figure and needs Mario's help only as an excuse for the game" is a hypothetical concept. We can't say so for sure.

Let me compare this to ganons plight. In zelda is says, "only things blessed by the three goddesses can kill him." Therefore, other goddesses or things blessed by gods don't effect him because the game says it just be those three.

Back to Rosalina. she needs Mario's help. Bowser stole her Lumas, and power stars. It's clear she can utilize Lumas to rearrange matter, but it doesn't mean she is a creator of the universe. Therefore, we can conclude that Rosalina is not some ultimate goddess capable of anything, as she couldn't defeat bowser on her own. She was designed not to. Any attempt to say she can leaves the 100% fact zone and delves into hypothetical, which I am not discussing.

I honestly can't see how on earth you can disagree with the idea that your view of Rosalina is at least partly based on hypothetical.

I'm done talking with you since you clearly have confirmation bias and are ignoring all of my points in favour of stubbornly claiming Rosalina can't even defeat Bowser (which I already provided an outright example of - Super Mario 3D World).

However I will be able to post each of my points as pictures and GIFs at a later point anyway, so you can continue claiming my points are "hypothetical" if you wish.

 

[Turokman5896]

I'm done talking with you since you clearly have confirmation bias and are ignoring all of my points in favour of stubbornly claiming Rosalina can't even defeat Bowser (which I already provided an outright example of - Super Mario 3D World).

However I will be able to post each of my points as pictures and GIFs at a later point anyway, so you can continue claiming my points are "hypothetical" if you wish.

They are. In 3d world, if you wish to choose that, she can be killed by bowser, koopas, drops, or anything at all really. Therefore she is on Mario level. Honestly you are incredibly disrespectful towards my arguments and I will not be wasting any more time on such a illogical thoughtless argument, especially one that doesn't provide a single specific example to any responses like I have done multiple times. Here is your complementary internet video:

Please, lets not waste anymore thread space with this argument.

 

[ChikoLad]

They are. In 3d world, if you wish to choose that, she can be killed by bowser, koopas, drops, or anything at all really. Therefore she is on Mario level. Honestly you are incredibly disrespectful towards my arguments and I will not be wasting any more time on such a illogical thoughtless argument, especially one that doesn't provide a single specific example to any responses like I have done multiple times. Here is your complementary internet video:

Please, lets not waste anymore thread space with this argument.

Who said characters "die" in 3D World? The Game Over screen just depicts them in a tired state, and if you press continue, they run right back into the action.

Hell, even if you touch lava in 3D World, the characters don't sink into it, they just kinda jump into a separate plane of existence, since they fall in front of everything.

Super Mario 3D World is extremely meta, so it doesn't prove that Rosalina is fallible (even her height was severely altered to make her playable). However, it does show her defeating a powered up Bowser while she uses her most basic abilities. Which is believable.

 

[cmbsfm]

A) That's not canon
B) His punch is not the thing that actually causes that explosion

But yes, it is an awesome scene.

He still killed two gods and their champion.

 

[Gameboi834]

He still killed two gods and their champion.

In what game?

 

[cmbsfm]

In what game?

f zero gx

this song lets us know more of the great falcon's power.

 

[Morbi]

Mii Fighters are canonically the strongest characters in Smash as they can be as strong as the strongest character in Smash if they are created to be the strongest characters in Smash. However, they could also be the weakest characters in Smash if they are just emulating the strongest characters in Smash. Basically, they are both the strongest and the weakest.

/thread

 

[MewtwoMaster2002]

In regards to characters saying a certain character can only be defeated in a certain way, what if that's all they know? What if there are other ways to defeat the character that are not in-game? Did the characters run tests to see that nothing besides the three goddesses can kill Ganon? Can they prove that gods or goddesses from a separate universe can or cannot harm him?

 

[Turokman5896]

In regards to characters saying a certain character can only be defeated in a certain way, what if that's all they know? What if there are other ways to defeat the character that are not in-game? Did the characters run tests to see that nothing besides the three goddesses can kill Ganon? Can they prove that gods or goddesses from a separate universe can or cannot harm him?

Can't prove they can either. =dead end.

 

[LosTimeTurner]

Ganondorf can get hurt, just can't be killed by anything not made by the gods???
and I thought a national dex was was a pokedex.

 

[ChikoLad]

Now to provide images and what not of all of those abilities of Rosalina I pointed out before, where I can, and a more detailed explanation where I can get no image:

Platforming Prowess & Spin Attack

Protective Shield

She also does it in the Galaxy games when you attempt to jump, spin, or shoot Star Bits at her.

Teleportation

Also, see her roll animation in Smash.

Control over gravity
I don't know where I can find a video of an LPer doing it in Galaxy so I can't provide an image in this, but most people know how when you jump off the Observatory in Galaxy, Rosalina pulls you back to safety. Also, her control over gravity is implemented into her Smash moveset in a few different ways, such as her down special, "Gravitational Pull".

Self levitation and flight
We all know how she generally levitates for her "standing" animation in pretty much every game she's in. No need to explain that part.

For flight though:

Can create doppelgangers of herself (Cosmic Spirit)
I want to go into some detail on this point:

Spoiler

Some people like to claim that the "Cosmic Spirit" is not actually Rosalina, and instead is Rosalina's equivalent to "Cosmic Mario/Luigi". These guys are the result of Prankster Comets causing havok.

However, three key things disprove that theory, and prove it's actually Rosalina:

1) The Cosmic Spirit doesn't show up when Prankster Comets are present, it appears independently of them. It specifically shows up when Mario is struggling in his mission, and offers assistance. Cosmic Mario, on the other hand, only shows up when a Prankster Comet is present, and is mischievous and wants to get in Mario's way.

2) Compare the appearance of Cosmic Mario with the Cosmic Spirit:

Cosmic Mario is completely featureless, and it's even difficult to differentiate it's clothing.

The Cosmic Spirit is more clearly shaped like Rosalina. And notice how it has Rosalina's genuine crown, earrings, broach, and wand. Not only that, but it, again, only seeks to help Mario, like a friend.

3) Cosmic Mario speaks gibberish, and has an extremely high pitched, distorted voice. He sounds absolutely nothing like Mario. However, the Cosmic Spirit can speak proper English:

Not only that, but it's voice clips are identical to Rosalina's voice. Has the same echo Rosalina's voice has and all (something Cosmic Mario does not have).

--------------------

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that Cosmic Mario is an abomination - an unnatural, inaccurate clone of Mario. He has a completely off personality, voice, and rough appearance.
The Cosmic Spirit, on the other hand, is a deliberate clone, and even features Rosalina's genuine accessories. And since we know she possesses control over cosmic elements, it's not far fetched to believe it was her who made it. Who else would have made such an accurate clone, featuring her seemingly real accessories?

Mind control
Since we've already disclosed that the Cosmic Spirit is indeed a clone of Rosalina created by herself, that means the Cosmic Spirit's manner of helping Mario - taking control of his mind to help him where he fails - is an ability Rosalina has command over.

Can change size at will

Control over the universe's rebirth
The visual implications of Mario Galaxy's endings are pretty clear cut, so I'm not going to explain that.

Instead, I will make the assumption that Rosalina is not in control of the rebirth of the universe. Now, let's talk about the gaping plot holes that come from such a viewpoint:

-Rosalina herself states that whenever the universe is reborn, "the cycle repeats itself, but never in quite the same way.". If this is the case, why is it that Rosalina herself, and everything she cherishes, remains unchanged? Why does specifically everything related to her remain the same after the universe's rebirth (this includes Mario and his friends)? If you believe this is a completely natural, indiscriminate process that Rosalina has absolutely no control over, how do you explain Rosalina and her most dearest friends and locations remain completely unchanged?

-Rosalina's knowledge of this cycle in the first place proves that this isn't the first time she's been through it, and that she hasn't lost her memory from universe rebirth to rebirth.

-Whether you want to believe Rosalina is a goddess or not, she describes herself as "watcher and protector of the cosmos". That's a pretty important role. It seems a bit uncharacteristic for someone of such a position, to be left to the whim of a natural, indiscriminate process, therefore, potentially losing this role and having it passed on to someone less suitable (or nobody at all). Which could potentially leave the next incarnation of the universe in an unruly state.

-She willingly lets this process happen. As if she has confidence things will be fine in the next universe, that things won't be out of hand, and that she will still be there to watch over the cosmos. If she had no control over the process, she would not display such confidence, especially since Lumas are essentially dying as all of this is happening, and potentially Mario's friends too. We outright watch as everything turns to nothing, while a small, contained area with Rosalina and Mario exists, and later, Mario finds himself waking up from an unconscious state, along with everyone else - except Rosalina, who is conscious throughout this entire process. Another hint she drops is when she says, "Yes....all life carries the essence of stars...even all of you...". All life carries the essence of stars. Rosalina has control over cosmic elements and a whole lot more. Stars are a cosmic element. Anything that contains it's essence is something Rosalina can control the creation of.

 

[Zink Imp]

In what game?

Any with lava. He still gets hurt.

 

[kataridragon]

Im in the Rosalina can do that cool stuff camp.

Also it's a good thing we got the pillow of Nayru. Now we can destroy Ganondorf.... Then take a nap afterwards

Edit: it's "atest" not "detest". It was bugging me :/

 

[ncepulo]

Any with lava. He still gets hurt.

I don't think that's true in all the games (not in Return to Dreamland).

 

[josh bones]

shulk is 10 tiers above any other charater in smash aside from game and watch, shulk can predict every character's attack, and recreate the universe without his enemies. SHulk would canonically win without taking a shred of canon

Let me restate that again: in his games, Shulk literally created a universe from scratch. He is a god with power comparable to the God in Christianity. He can see the entire future no matter where he is. He has no weaknesses to exploit, and if he did, he could literally rewrite the entire universe to eliminate that weakness

 

[Ffamran]

Let's see, Palutena and Rosalina are probably the most powerful beings considering they're goddesses. Palutena and Rosalina for whatever reason usually sits on the sidelines in their games. They're powerful, but not invincible since Palutena was captured in the first Kid Icarus and something happened in Kid Icarus: Uprising as well.

Coming next would be Ganondorf himself or as Demise, Zelda when she was Hylia, and Shulk in the end Xenoblade: Chronicles before he decides to become human again. They used to be powerful dieties, but relinquished their powers or in Demise's case, was defeated and forced to reincarnate as a weaker version of himself and gained the Triforce of Power to make up for some of his weakness.

Following them, I'd say Link with the Triforce - the only Link capable of that was Skyward Sword Link -, Fierce Deity Link - technically, he's playable, Super Sonic, and Giga Bowser? Assuming it grants power, Link with the Triforce is more powerful then the other Links. Fierce Deity Link is well, a deity, so there. Super Sonic is basically Super Saiyan mode and Giga Bowser already showed he's a freaking beast.

Then we have everyone else who I don't really know where to put them.

The weakest in my opinion would be Olimar, Snake, Little Mac - he's pushing it -, the Villager - a super-deformed kid -, Wii Fit Trainer, and perhaps Marth, Lucina, Roy, and even Ike - he's pushing it considering the sword he uses -. Why? Compared to everyone else, they don't have superpowers. They can't throw fire balls, aren't anthropomorphized beings like Bowser, DK, or Wolf who has freaking claws - with a beak like Falco's I'd use it to bite the hell out of people in fights; aren't superhuman like Samus, Link - the things he does isn't normal -, and Sheik; or have insane disregards to physics like Mr. Game & Watch. They're regular people who can do extraordinary things.

 

[ChikoLad]

^I'd argue Snake be higher there. He's resilient and has a really high IQ, as well as being a CQC expert. He's taken on the super natural before, as well as mechanical beasts.

 

[nessokman]

I would rank characters in terms of strength as-

1. Palutena-
   -she's a goddess of light with more raw power than any other smasher, she has also been shown in uprising to have good physical combat skill when she fought pit.
   _______________________________________________________
2. Rosalina-
   
   -Everything stated above about her
   _______________________________________________________
   
3. Shulk
   
   -Mainly because of his visions. He doesn't have the power of a god until the end, and the shulk we see in smash clearly is using the first manado. He doesn't have that power, but he can still predict attacks and avoid them, making him a dangerous foe.
   _______________________________________________________
   
4. Pit-
   
   -Viridi referred to him as a "Walking munitions depot." He has a wide variety of weapons, and clearly is packing some major destructive power. Being an angel, he also has better reflexes and physical strength than most humans.
   _______________________________________________________
   
5. Link-
   
   -The master sword, as well as the triforce make him a deadly enemy. The master sword is incredibly powerful, strong enough to put down gannondorf down so many times. He is a master archer with magic arrows.
   _______________________________________________________
   
6. Gannon
   
   -He is insanely strong physically, and his dark powers are absurdly powerful. The characters above are the only ones I think would stand a chance at beating him in a fight
   _______________________________________________________
   
7. Ness/Lucas
   
   -I know what you're thinking, but in terms of raw power that are incredible. They can take a major beating. Their PSI attacks pack incredible destructive power, they are both masters of healing and shields.
   _______________________________________________________
   
8. Samus
   
   -Enhanced physical strength given to her by the chozo, she packs lasers, bombs, missles, super missles, and resistance to various climates with her various suits.

 

[Ffamran]

^I'd argue Snake be higher there. He's resilient and has a really high IQ, as well as being a CQC expert. He's taken on the super natural before, as well as mechanical beasts.

Little Mac, Ike, and Snake along with the Fire Emblem characters borderline stuff. Even Wii Fit Trainer does considering the things she can pull. That said, I'd say Snake and Sam Fisher are more comparable than Big Boss and Sam Fisher. Snake and Sam are incredible people, but Big Boss's legendary status is more real than fiction.

The issue is that the "humans" of the group are already border-lining superhuman. They're more like Batman who's a superhero despite being the most human compared to Mario, Superman, Spider-Man, Link, etc. I mean, look at Marth's swordplay, no regular human can do that, maybe with extreme training, sure, but still. At least Ike shows the weight of his sword, but even then.

Now, if we had a "Dan" of SSB - I guess the Pokémon Trainer would qualify since it's his team that fights -, then it'd be easier to say who's the weakest. Well, we do have this: .

 

[Ffamran]

Mii Fighters are canonically the strongest characters in Smash as they can be as strong as the strongest character in Smash if they are created to be the strongest characters in Smash. However, they could also be the weakest characters in Smash if they are just emulating the strongest characters in Smash. Basically, they are both the strongest and the weakest.

/thread

So... They're Asauchi? Infinite potential, but limited by others?

Edit: Did not want to double-post. I expected someone else to have posted...

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm actually going to try rank characters. To keep things streamlined, I'm only doing announced Smash 4 characters.

Just a note - characters within the same rank are pretty much a tie, or who would win would depend on very specific circumstances. Characters may have a chance against characters in a higher rank, but not in all cases (e.g Sonic and Kirby might have a chance with Shulk and Rosalina. Palutena might not, however, especially against Rosalina, using a simple "rock, paper, scissors" theory).

For Shulk and Rosalina, I'm not taking into consideration their ability to reboot and create universes. They are still the highest two without it, but I think it's uninteresting to consider it.

SSS Tier:
SS Tier:
S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
C Tier:
X Tier (Unranked):

Pac-Man is in X Tier since I don't know enough about him to rank him.
Villager because he doesn't display any fighting potential in his own games (WFT at least is a fit, well toned woman which automatically means she could fight to a degree).
Mii characters because, well, they are YOU.

SSS Tier to S Tier are pretty much my final opinions. The rest might need some rethinking, though.

 

[josh bones]

I'm actually going to try rank characters. To keep things streamlined, I'm only doing announced Smash 4 characters.

Just a note - characters within the same rank are pretty much a tie, or who would win would depend on very specific circumstances. Characters may have a chance against characters in a higher rank, but not in all cases (e.g Sonic and Kirby might have a chance with Shulk and Rosalina. Palutena might not, however, especially against Rosalina, using a simple "rock, paper, scissors" theory).

For Shulk and Rosalina, I'm not taking into consideration their ability to reboot and create universes. They are still the highest two without it, but I think it's uninteresting to consider it.

SSS Tier:
SS Tier:
S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
C Tier:
X Tier (Unranked):

Pac-Man is in X Tier since I don't know enough about him to rank him.
Villager because he doesn't display any fighting potential in his own games (WFT at least is a fit, well toned woman which automatically means she could fight to a degree).
Mii characters because, well, they are YOU.

SSS Tier to S Tier are pretty much my final opinions. The rest might need some rethinking, though.

Most of the people in b tier are better then falcon ike should s tier Mario should be higher e everything else is good

 

[Greda]

I'm actually going to try rank characters. To keep things streamlined, I'm only doing announced Smash 4 characters.

Just a note - characters within the same rank are pretty much a tie, or who would win would depend on very specific circumstances. Characters may have a chance against characters in a higher rank, but not in all cases (e.g Sonic and Kirby might have a chance with Shulk and Rosalina. Palutena might not, however, especially against Rosalina, using a simple "rock, paper, scissors" theory).

For Shulk and Rosalina, I'm not taking into consideration their ability to reboot and create universes. They are still the highest two without it, but I think it's uninteresting to consider it.

SSS Tier:
SS Tier:
S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
C Tier:
X Tier (Unranked):

Pac-Man is in X Tier since I don't know enough about him to rank him.
Villager because he doesn't display any fighting potential in his own games (WFT at least is a fit, well toned woman which automatically means she could fight to a degree).
Mii characters because, well, they are YOU.

SSS Tier to S Tier are pretty much my final opinions. The rest might need some rethinking, though.

I would honestly move Palutena and Zelda up, while knocking Shulk and Rosalina down.

 

[josh bones]

I would honestly move Palutena and Zelda up, while knocking Shulk and Rosalina down.

Shulk moving down its laughable. Shulk basically became god at the end of xenoblade. Imo he should move up.

 

[Greda]

Shulk moving down its laughable. Shulk basically became god at the end of xenoblade. Imo he should move up.

Well Palutena is a goddess as well, so I think they should be in the same tier.

 

[ChikoLad]

Most of the people in b tier are better then falcon ike should s tier Mario should be higher e everything else is good

Falcon was a tough choice, but I put him where he is for these reasons:

-The only F-Zero game to my knowledge that portrays Falcon as a character is GX, as well as GP Legend (the GBA game based on the anime). And while he admittedly isn't really worth talking about in GX, the game is made by SEGA, so I feel like it isn't Nintendo's portrayal of the character.

-We get Nintendo's portrayal of the character through Smash and F-Zero Densetsu/GP Legend. As a result, I consider them to be the closest to what we can call canon, and they basically formed the Captain Falcon everyone knows. Captain Falcon is really powerful in the anime, and survives all sorts of crazy stuff. And in the recent Lucina/Robin trailer, Captain Falcon blocks Lucina's sword like it's nothing. Apparently, that sword is some legendary sword meant to take down a city-sized dragon or something. And then Falcon would have wrecked Lucina in this trailer if not for Robin. Therefore, I think he stands among the likes of Pit. He was also very capable in the SSE cutscenes.

As for Ike, I admit he's sort of randomly placed since I don't know enough about him, though I knew he could be no lower than A tier.

I don't think Mario would be higher than Luigi though, for multiple reasons.

I would honestly move Palutena and Zelda up, while knocking Shulk and Rosalina down.

Despite being directly referred to as a goddess, Palutena has clear limits. Rosalina and Shulk don't.

And in Rosalina's case, there is a simple "rock, paper, scissors" logic here that puts her above Palutena here - Palutena controls light. One of the things Rosalina controls is space. Light needs space to function.

Also, Palutena is displayed as having control over a single planet, and nothing more, while Shulk and Rosalina display universal control.

Heck, if it weren't for the fact that she has control over Pit, I'd be placing Palutena in S Tier.

As for Zelda, she is somewhat randomly placed. However, I think Peach is more likely to move up than her. If I take Hyrule Warriors into consideration, Zelda would be A Tier, definitely. However, I'm not taking it into consideration due to my logic for Captain Falcon. Plus, I believe Hyrule Warriors is explicitly non-canon.

 

[josh bones]

Well Palutena is a goddess as well, so I think they should be in the same tier.

Shulk can recreate the universe at Will, and can predict attacks, pale tuna dues not stand on the level that Shulk does, he could simply wipe pale tuna out of existence

 

[Greda]

Falcon was a tough choice, but I put him where he is for these reasons:

-The only F-Zero game to my knowledge that portrays Falcon as a character is GX, as well as GP Legend (the GBA game based on the anime). And while he admittedly isn't really worth talking about in GX, the game is made by SEGA, so I feel like it isn't Nintendo's portrayal of the character.

-We get Nintendo's portrayal of the character through Smash and F-Zero Densetsu/GP Legend. As a result, I consider them to be the closest to what we can call canon, and they basically formed the Captain Falcon everyone knows. Captain Falcon is really powerful in the anime, and survives all sorts of crazy stuff. And in the recent Lucina/Robin trailer, Captain Falcon blocks Lucina's sword like it's nothing. Apparently, that sword is some legendary sword meant to take down a city-sized dragon or something. And then Falcon would have wrecked Lucina in this trailer if not for Robin. Therefore, I think he stands among the likes of Pit. He was also very capable in the SSE cutscenes.

As for Ike, I admit he's sort of randomly placed since I don't know enough about him, though I knew he could be no lower than A tier.

I don't think Mario would be higher than Luigi though, for multiple reasons.



Despite being directly referred to as a goddess, Palutena has clear limits. Rosalina and Shulk don't.

And in Rosalina's case, there is a simple "rock, paper, scissors" logic here that puts her above Palutena here - Palutena controls light. One of the things Rosalina controls is space. Light needs space to function.

Also, Palutena is displayed as having control over a single planet, and nothing more, while Shulk and Rosalina display universal control.

Heck, if it weren't for the fact that she has control over Pit, I'd be placing Palutena in S Tier.

As for Zelda, she is somewhat randomly placed. However, I think Peach is more likely to move up than her. If I take Hyrule Warriors into consideration, Zelda would be A Tier, definitely. However, I'm not taking it into consideration due to my logic for Captain Falcon. Plus, I believe Hyrule Warriors is explicitly non-canon.

I can agree with you on Shulk, but not Rosalina. The only reason it appears she does not have any clear limitations is because she has never actually fought anything besides stepping on Goombas and being in Smash. Sure she has some passive abilities but she didn't defeat Bowser on her own either, and by Mario doing so besides her makes me want to place Mario one tier above Rosalina. Rosalina IMO should be C tier.

 

[IvanQuote]

Pac man I would say is lower mid. He knows basic hand to hand combat, better at kicking though. He can do a bounce attack and "spin dash" a la Sonic, though not nearly as fast obviously. The bounce if used a few times in succession can make a shockwave that travels along the ground. He can shoot Pac dots out of his hand like bullets and can use ten at once to shoot a large blast out of his hand. His power ups are the most interesting bit; one makes his bounce make an explosion upon landing, one is like the metal box, making him near invulnerable and immune to fire and lava, one gives makes him leave a trail behind him that does damage if he closes it around an enemy (kinda difficult to discribe, but it acts similar to Art Attack from Paper Mario Thousand Year Door), and my favorite, one that gives him FORCE LIGHTNING! (All of the above from Pac Man World series). If we count the reboot Ghostly Adventures, there's a whole other slew of power ups he can use that I don't feel like mentioning.