Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Bosspon]

I kinda brought up that point before, only without the romantic/sexual connotations.

But yeah, despite being a goddess, I doubt Shulk would want to take her out for any reason. Rosalina isn't like most gods in games. She started out completely human, and through some as of yet unexplained circumstances, obtained her great power. Since she was once human, and possibly gained these powers against her will or knowledge, she's not power hungry at all and doesn't actually abuse her powers. The universe is her child as much as the Lumas are, and while she guides it and wants it to prosper, she wants it to make it's own decisions, like any good mother would allow their child. So there is no reason for Shulk to want to be rid of her, from what I know of him. Also, from what I gather, he likes reading, and Rosalina writes stories, so there ya go!



She never outright says "I'm omniscient", but she somehow knew about the entirety of events in Galaxy 2 (the game is a story she is reading to the Lumas - this is revealed in the 120 Star Ending). However, she only appears in the regular ending before that, and leaves very swiftly.

And the definitive proof that the story of Galaxy 2 did happen, and wasn't just a story she wrote, lies in the fact that in the regular ending, Young Master Luma takes Mario's/Luigi's hat and reunites with Rosalina, and in the 120 Star Ending, still has it.

Also, her very first words to Mario in Galaxy 1 are "My name is Rosalina. I watch over and protect the cosmos."

Now I can't imagine she could watch over the cosmos unless she was all-seeing. That might beg the question as to why the events of the game transpire at all, but as is general god law in most works of fiction, gods aren't supposed to interfere with the affairs of mortals unless mortal threaten the universe and time itself, which is what happened in Galaxy 1.

Watching over all the cosmos doesn't necessarily mean omniscience, though. It could be as simply as scrying or communicating with the lumas that become planets/galaxies. Batman can watch Gotham without being omniscient. Watching over something is not proof of omniscience. This is just a grander scaled of "watching".

 

[Mechonis]

I kinda brought up that point before, only without the romantic/sexual connotations.

But yeah, despite being a goddess, I doubt Shulk would want to take her out for any reason. Rosalina isn't like most gods in games. She started out completely human, and through some as of yet unexplained circumstances, obtained her great power. Since she was once human, and possibly gained these powers against her will or knowledge, she's not power hungry at all and doesn't actually abuse her powers. The universe is her child as much as the Lumas are, and while she guides it and wants it to prosper, she wants it to make it's own decisions, like any good mother would allow their child. So there is no reason for Shulk to want to be rid of her, from what I know of him. Also, from what I gather, he likes reading, and Rosalina writes stories, so there ya go!



She never outright says "I'm omniscient", but she somehow knew about the entirety of events in Galaxy 2 (the game is a story she is reading to the Lumas - this is revealed in the 120 Star Ending). However, she only appears in the regular ending before that, and leaves very swiftly.

And the definitive proof that the story of Galaxy 2 did happen, and wasn't just a story she wrote, lies in the fact that in the regular ending, Young Master Luma takes Mario's/Luigi's hat and reunites with Rosalina, and in the 120 Star Ending, still has it.

Also, her very first words to Mario in Galaxy 1 are "My name is Rosalina. I watch over and protect the cosmos."

Now I can't imagine she could watch over the cosmos unless she was all-seeing. That might beg the question as to why the events of the game transpire at all, but as is general god law in most works of fiction, gods aren't supposed to interfere with the affairs of mortals unless mortal threaten the universe and time itself, which is what happened in Galaxy 1.

Still begs the question, why can't she at least just wave her hand and create more power stars to move her observatory, or just gather them up? Why does she need Mario at all? That wouldn't require any fighting. Perhaps it's her observatory that let's her view things as if she was omniscient, thus the need for an "observatory" in the first place?

 

[ChikoLad]

Watching over all the cosmos doesn't necessarily mean omniscience, though. It could be as simply as scrying or communicating with the lumas that become planets/galaxies. Batman can watch Gotham without being omniscient. Watching over something is not proof of omniscience. This is just a grander scaled of "watching".

But it would literally be impossible to watch over the universe without it because with a city, you just get up high and you can see all of it. Not possible with the universe.

And the Lumas that become planets or comets don't speak or communicate, much like the Luma that became the Observatory. If that was a plot point, they would have established that Rosalina talks to the Observatory or something.

And like I explained, she somehow followed everything that happened in Galaxy 2.

Still begs the question, why can't she at least just wave her hand and create more power stars to move her observatory, or just gather them up? Why does she need Mario at all? That wouldn't require any fighting. Perhaps it's her observatory that let's her view things as if she was omniscient, thus the need for an "observatory" in the first place?

Power Stars are born from Lumas, she can't just wave them into existence. That would be like her turning human babies into adults for whatever reason, or creating adult humans out of nothing. It would rob them of their childhood. Lumas are baby celestial beings, and evolve into many things when they grow up.

In saving the Power Stars, she is saving her children.

 

[Bosspon]

But it would literally be impossible to watch over the universe without it because with a city, you just get up high and you can see all of it. Not possible with the universe.

And the Lumas that become planets or comets don't speak or communicate, much like the Luma that became the Observatory. If that was a plot point, they would have established that Rosalina talks to the Observatory or something.

And like I explained, she somehow followed everything that happened in Galaxy 2.

Well then, I dunno. But we can't assume it's omniscience and give her a power that we don't have any proof of. We don't know her methods or much about her at all. Saying it's omniscience is just assumptions and conjecture without any definitive proof from any canon sources.

 

[ChikoLad]

Well then, I dunno. But we can't assume it's omniscience and give her a power that we don't have any proof of. We don't know her methods or much about her at all. Saying it's omniscience is just assumptions and conjecture without any definitive proof from any canon sources.

I'm using the basis that she can successfully know everything that goes on in the universe as basis, it's not baseless. No matter what way you swing it, the only way she could effectively monitor the universe is through having the ability to see all, that's just fictional common sense. And it isn't out of the question, since she does far more amazing things anyway. Like I said, she has no known boundaries.

 

[Mechonis]

I'm using the basis that she can successfully know everything that goes on in the universe as basis, it's not baseless. No matter what way you swing it, the only way she could effectively monitor the universe is through having the ability to see all, that's just fictional common sense. And it isn't out of the question, since she does far more amazing things anyway. Like I said, she has no known boundaries.

Yet on the other hand, Shulk does have known boundaries. In the sense that he hit the point that he's capable of doing anything at all. XD

Edit: At best, it'd probably be a stalemate.

At the same time, I know Shulk has the power to seal the abilities of his enemies so they can't use them. (Even before the end game.)

 

[ChikoLad]

Yet on the other hand, Shulk does have known boundaries. In the sense that he hit the point that he's capable of doing anything at all. XD

The jury is still out on that one. What I've read up on has limits, but I will play the game one day (and complete it if I like it enough).

 

[DuwangAnon]

Y'all are wrong. The one most powerful is Reggie's body, obviously.

 

[Triblaze]

That Link and Marth team up though from the trailer was pretty darned awesome! And... They tied Shulk

 

[Zink Imp]

Honestly, there really isn't a lot going for Rosalina. We're going by the ending of Mario Galaxy right? Not a lot really happened. In fact, iIdon't think Rosalina did anything. The Lumas did. It's too opened ended (probably because it's a Mario game...there's not much plot there). At least Shulk has a basis. All this stuff on Rosalina seems to be BIG stretches.

 

[ChikoLad]

Honestly, there really isn't a lot going for Rosalina. We're going by the ending of Mario Galaxy right? Not a lot really happened. In fact, iIdon't think Rosalina did anything. The Lumas did. It's too opened ended (probably because it's a Mario game...there's not much plot there). At least Shulk has a basis. All this stuff on Rosalina seems to be BIG stretches.

No, I'm referencing a bunch of things here. And they're not being stretched at all. Even the ending of Super Mario Galaxy did have a lot to reference in itself though.

Why do people find it so hard to fathom that she's this powerful? The amount of points people miss about her, and Galaxy in general, is astounding, even though they are laid out very blatantly. She's blatantly depicted as a goddess, even has a typical "god quote" and everything ("May the stars shine down on you."). I honestly get the feeling people don't want to accept it just because she's a Mario character and doesn't look like a complete badass or doesn't look like she was ripped from at least a 12+ anime. Same sort of thing tends to happen when discussing Sonic's strength, or Kirby's.

And like I humerously pointed out before:

Galactic farts is a thing she does. I mean c'mon, if that's not god-like power, I don't know what it is.

 

[Enyalb]

Allow me to share my insight on this Shulk v. Rosalina battle, since it's been going on long enough and really shouldn't be an argument in the first place.

At best, Shulk is above almost every fighter in the roster, with futuresight and Monado artes galore.

While Rosalina is in no way shape or form seen fighting outside of Smash Bros. (unless you count jumping on enemies, then oh my), she is technically powerful in a sense for being the mother of stars, populating the universe with planets and galaxies.

HOWEVER (Because Xenoblade can't be discussed without spoilers)

Spoiler

Shulk was able to defeat Zanza, the almighty god of recreation and destruction (and mechas). A god that not only creates life itself and soon recycles it, but can also distort reality itself to a huge extent, and is only slightly limited to the laws of physics. He is the Anti-Spiral to Shulk's Gurren Lagann. Do the math. Last I checked Rosalina is just as human as Shulk is, who, as I said before, populates the universe with stars and space etc. Zanza? He started off as a human that created the universe itself, making him the top god of gods. Who was the person that defeated this menace? Shulk, and how did he do that? By using the Monado, which was a weapon created by Zanza himself. Does Rosalina have a Monado. No, all she has is a paintbrush to draw lumas on the canvas known as space.

Plus, would Rosalina really be considered a threat to Shulk when compared to this?

In conclusion, Rosalina > Shulk, but because of Tengen Toppa Spoilers, Rosalina < Shulk.

/topic

Galactic farts is a thing she does. I mean c'mon, if that's not god-like power, I don't know what it is.

Because waifus are sooper hawt like that.

 

[IvanQuote]

i dont think its fair to use the golf game as a measure of power if you don't include all of her appearances, which you said you don't, use all of them or just canon ones

On the contrary, I believe that this power can be counted, as the animations for every other character (well, at least the birdy shots, which this one is) is plausible for canon appearances. Granted, I feel her purview doesn't quite extend to creating multiple galaxies with the flick of a wrist (by that I mean it would take quite a bit of energy and possibly charging time to do so), but I feel a meteor shower would be plausible. You gotta take what you can get with stories as shallow as Mario's.

 

[ChikoLad]

When I made the Rosalina "farts galaxies" comment, it's not supposed to be a "hot girl" joke - the phrasing is a silly way of putting it (intentionally), but what I really mean is that she is literally able to generate galaxies from her body, and does so casually. Her side Smash also sees her make a tear in space.

And it doesn't matter whether or not the character is seen directly fighting another individual one on one. It matters about what limits they have, and what powers they have. Rosalina has no limits from what has been seen. She was once human (though I guess that's an assumption, as technically, there's no concrete proof to that), but transcended it to become a goddess. One who can seemingly do things we can't even begin to imagine.

Shulk was able to defeat Zanza, the almighty god of recreation and destruction (and mechas). A god that not only creates life itself and soon recycles it, but can also distort reality itself to a huge extent, and is only slightly limited to the laws of physics

And Rosalina has literal control over gravity, and thus, is not bound by the laws of physics, but outright controls it, what she says, goes, when it comes to physics. Even Sakurai has referenced this.

No, all she has is a paintbrush to draw lumas on the canvas known as space.

First off, why is it absolutely mandatory that Rosalina have a weapon to be powerful? It's never stated that the wand is what gives her powers (I think it's more likely it's an inhibitor, actually), and even if it did, what does that matter, everyone's whole argument on Shulk revolves around the Monado, more or less. Rosalina doesn't need a weapon to be powerful, she innately is.

And Rosalina doesn't "paint" the Lumas, they are their own entity. Even in Smash, they spawn after a set amount of time, not manually.

Plus, would Rosalina really be considered a threat to Shulk when compared to this?

...What has appearance got to do with anything? I've watched a little blue African pygmy hedgehog kill giant gods too many times for this to have any merit to me. And played too many Final Fantasy games, specifically in the XIII saga.

Not to mention you're ignoring that Rosalina can change size anyway:

 

[IvanQuote]

Galactic farts is a thing she does. I mean c'mon, if that's not god-like power, I don't know what it is.

One quick thing, I'm pretty sure when we're talking about the strongest canonically, we're using the canon from their own series, eg. not SSB. Ergo, Ness can't use PK Fire, Game & Watch is neither 2 dimensional, nor a producer of infinite matter (shadow bugs), and Rosalina can't, ahem, kick entire galaxies out of her dress.

I do however approve of the meteor shower rain, explained in a former comment of mine:

On the contrary, I believe that this power can be counted, as the animations for every other character (well, at least the birdy shots, which this one is) is plausible for canon appearances. Granted, I feel her purview doesn't quite extend to creating multiple galaxies with the flick of a wrist (by that I mean it would take quite a bit of energy and possibly charging time to do so), but I feel a meteor shower would be plausible. You gotta take what you can get with stories as shallow as Mario's.

as well as the psychokinesis/gravity manipulation to grab an opponent, as she clearly picks up Mario with the bubble thing if he falls off the observatory.

She's basically god tier *Darth Vader with dat force choke.

Speaking of the bubble thing, I'm surprised you didn't mention that shield of hers that will deflect Mario and Luigi's jump, ground pound, homing ground pound, and star bits in those games. Though the extent of that shield's durability is unknown, if cannot buckle under chain stomps/ground pounds from the Marios, it's definitely powerful enough.

 

[ChikoLad]

One quick thing, I'm pretty sure when we're talking about the strongest canonically, we're using the canon from their own series, eg. not SSB. Ergo, Ness can't use PK Fire, Game & Watch is neither 2 dimensional, nor a producer of infinite matter (shadow bugs), and Rosalina can't, ahem, kick entire galaxies out of her dress.

Actually, this isn't universal to all Smash characters. You can use Smash as a basis if it doesn't contradict what's already set in canon. Ness can't use PK Fire in his own game, so that's no basis when talking canon strength, as it COMPLETELY contradicts the canon. However, many Smash Bros characters haven't been playable in their own game, maybe not at all, and don't normally engage in fisticuffs. So instead, the basis of their moveset is not things they have explicitly done in their own games, but things they are implied to be able to do, or fit their known status. Rosalina is a goddess with no clear boundaries who is closely associated with space, so they went wild with her moveset, and kept with the space theme.

If you note how Sakurai stated in a PotD:

Spoiler

"It is said that the cosmos is beneath Rosalina's gown. This was actually featured briefly in her debut video."

This actually links back to the point of her creating new universes in Galaxy. She CANONICALLY can create new universes when an old one is unstable, so to reference that, she does a miniature version of this for a lot of her physical attacks (which in Smash, serves to give her a lot of range and disjointed hit boxes). It's basically a small scale version of what she did in Galaxy's ending, which is something she has done multiple times. So considering how this is basically a small scale version of something she canonically does, it's not unreasonable to think she can canonically do this too. Not only this, but the animations are clearly differentiated between her various attacks, to reference different cosmic elements (starry sky streams, galaxies, space tears/space pockets, etc).

Another character we often have look at from this angle is Captain Falcon - he never really fights in his games. He had an anime, but didn't fight in the games. So I don't see why Rosalina can't be viewed this way, especially since nothing she does in Smash is unreasonable or unfathomable, considering what she can do canonically (which is actually a lot more than what can be said for Captain Falcon, who manages to get held hostage in his own vehicle in F-Zero GX). The example of the grab is no different to her galaxy creating kicks.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

unless shulk is a dragon he can't beat marth.
And like sports the tri force of courage witch makes link ALWAYS have the innate ability to beat unparalleled odds.
shulk's got competition.

 

[Gameboi834]

unless shulk is a dragon he can't beat marth.
And like sports the tri force of courage witch makes link ALWAYS have the innate ability to beat unparalleled odds.
shulk's got competition.

Yeah, always, like that one timeline where he canonnically fails to stop the evil.
Oh wait.

 

[Triblaze]

Yeah, always, like that one timeline where he canonnically fails to stop the evil.
Oh wait.

To be fair, he has an awesome horse and a lazer bow. Yes, a lazer bow.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Yeah, always, like that one timeline where he canonnically fails to stop the evil.
Oh wait.

nothing i said was absolute tone it down. he has the ability to do so. so weather or not he applies it is to question.
Or i can whip out the big guns and just say he obtains the full triforce in several games and can just wish shulk dead.

 

[Mighty_Guy100]

I haven't played xenoblade Chronicals (yet?) but from reading this thread, I have to say shulk is like smash's superman. So overpowered its not even fair. Question is, who is batman?

btw Kratos would wreck everyone.

 

[skstylez]

Was goddess Palutena.
Now is Shulk

Just a note, Shulk always had a team backing him up. He wouldn't have gotten far without them, nor would they without Shulk. I still think he's the strongest of Smash

 

[Gameboi834]

nothing i said was absolute tone it down. he has the ability to do so. so weather or not he applies it is to question.
Or i can whip out the big guns and just say he obtains the full triforce in several games and can just wish shulk dead.

You said always, in caps. If that's not the definition of an absolute then I don't know what is.
He never obtains the full triforce in OoT, MM, or TP which are the Links in Smash Bros. Those are the canons we have to pull from in terms of Link.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Alright, after reading through this ENTIRE thread, 46 pages of pure awesomeness, I've come to a conclusion. Unlike other tier lists, everyone can beat anyone below them.
Tier 1 (Godlike):







Shulk
Tier 2 (Very Powerful):





Tier 3 (Pretty Strong):




/







Tier 4 (Mid-Tier):




















Tier 5 (Super Weak):

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

If they're from a JRPGS, they should probably be at the top of the list.

The ending in this genre usually involves a group of kids using the power of friendship to kill gods.

 

[pupNapoleon]

The correct answer to the question posed in this thread, is Mario.
If the characters are around long enough, they will eventually- as we have seen lately, have a crossover. Pokken Fighters, MK8, Hyrule Warriors, Nintendo is going a smart route.

With all these newer versions of what the fans wanted, all characters, eventually, will meet Mario. And at some point, then, they will all need his help, or in some way, rely on him, even if it is just to be invited to his party. Let us not, after all, forget the power of the social invitation, as social power is quite it's own entity as well.

 

[pupNapoleon]

*DOUBLE POST PARTY!*

 

[NuthingDude]

Alright, after reading through this ENTIRE thread, 46 pages of pure awesomeness, I've come to a conclusion. Unlike other tier lists, everyone can beat anyone below them.
Tier 1 (Godlike):







Shulk
Tier 2 (Very Powerful):





Tier 3 (Pretty Strong):




/







Tier 4 (Mid-Tier):




















Tier 5 (Super Weak):

So... you're saying that pokemon trainer is stronger than his own pokemon?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

You said always, in caps. If that's not the definition of an absolute then I don't know what is.
He never obtains the full triforce in OoT, MM, or TP which are the Links in Smash Bros. Those are the canons we have to pull from in terms of Link.

Fine then toon link beats shulk then happy?

 

[StarLight42]

Strongest character is Mario.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Some early game examples of Shulk learning what the Monado can do. Keep in mind these are from the first few hours of the game and are not indicative of his over all power level.

Shulk takes the Monado. Notice his precog abilities already enable him to dodge laser fire before he learns Monado Speed.

Monado Armour is the first Monado ability that Shulk learns. Note that the giant spider broke Reyn's driver (his shield) easily in Shulk's vision, and that that same driver was able to easily deflect Mechon attacks earlier in the game.

Monado Speed. His second ability....once again, he unlocks it very early on.

If you don't care at all about spoiler and want to know exactly where Shulk's power comes form and what the Monado is, you can watch this cut scene.

THIS CUT SCENE IN THE SPOILER TAG BELOW INVOLVES SOME OF THE BIGGEST POSSIBLE SPOILERS FROM XENOBLADE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Spoiler

[/close]

 

[Kirby Dragons]

So... you're saying that pokemon trainer is stronger than his own pokemon?

The trainer has lots and lots of Pokemon. So yes. I separated Charizard because he becomes his own character in Sm4sh.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I don't know what's going on with those extra spoiler tags.

 

[MysticKnives]

I'm going with: Mario, Luigi (Chaos Heart), Ganondorf, Ness, Shulk, Palutena., Sonic, Kirby.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Strongest character is Mario.

If mario is a plumber. Dose that mean warp pipes are marios doing? Is mario the sole brains behind a collection of highly applicable transportation system? Mario beats everybody man transport everyone to the nega zone.

 

[Gameboi834]

Fine then toon link beats shulk then happy?

Toon Link also never touches the full triforce.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Toon Link also never touches the full triforce.

oh sorry i did not mean with the triforce im talking about phantom hour glass BS.

 

[Gameboi834]

Alright, after reading through this ENTIRE thread, 46 pages of pure awesomeness, I've come to a conclusion. Unlike other tier lists, everyone can beat anyone below them.
Tier 1 (Godlike):







Shulk
Tier 2 (Very Powerful):





Tier 3 (Pretty Strong):




/







Tier 4 (Mid-Tier):




















Tier 5 (Super Weak):

How is a Yoga Instructor weaker than Princess Peach? How is Snake weaker than Little Mac? Villager being Very Powerful? This list needs some serious work.

oh sorry i did not mean with the triforce im talking about phantom hour glass BS.

What BS is that? It's been a while since I played PH.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

What BS is that? It's been a while since I played PH.

it was the fairy powerup things one added load more power to your sword. the other prevented damage as lond as your faced the enemy. (it was just large shield radious and could only get hit from behind)
and i forgot the last one my self i think it was sword lazer like classic stuff.

 

[ChikoLad]

How is a Yoga Instructor weaker than Princess Peach?

Play Super Princess Peach.