Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Xermo]

Garbo list. Shulk in s-tier for "muh 5 second god powers," while Rosa is in C-tier. Double standards, much?

Also, Ness and Lucas are nowhere near the same power level, mate.

 

[IsmaR]

I brought back the original thread and moved it to a different section, since it's more about Smash in general than Wii U/3DS specific.

 

[IvanQuote]

Well this thread is back. Now that Cloud has been announced, he'll be in the running too. I doubt he'll be the highest, but I think he'll be high tier. Then there's his Death Battle, but the validity of that is...questionable by most. This especially applies to whether "compilation Link" is considered, but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Who here would be a good match (win or lose) to Cloud?

 

[Deleted member]

Bowser Jr because he has a cannon.

 

[monzer]

Garbo list. Shulk in s-tier for "muh 5 second god powers," while Rosa is in C-tier. Double standards, much?

Also, Ness and Lucas are nowhere near the same power level, mate.

Rosa is only as durable as Mario, shulk is able to take hits from being as strong as he is with his god powers, as well as Monado switching, whitch can help him with a lot of matchups.

I realized the Lukas/Ness thing as well, I'll move down Lukas.

Cloud is a hard one honestly. He's from an rpg, so a lot of questionable exploits from his abilities could be used. Ex. Counter giving Robin a positive matchup against Sonic, Pokemon with quick attack outspeedong Sonic, swift never missing (these are all really questionable though.) I'm not sure how strong Sepheroph is, but if we can find out what his plans were that could be a good starter.

On the topic of death battle, I can say it's a good starting point, but not debate settling. Cloud is probably stronger than all the links except for young Link in Majora's mask(fierce deity mask).

On the topic of armies, they aren't allowed (because characters like bowser would get every boss from every Mario game on his side, as well as bower Jr. and the koopalings) but vehicles are, so the captain gets the blue Falcon, Meta Knight gets his halberd(with no one inside of it though), Bowser Jr. gets his clown car/megahammer, exc.

 

[Xermo]

Lol have you ever played the galaxy games.

Lists like these are full of bias, especially with logic like yours. Saying things like "character can tank hits from a god" or "can regenerate easily" applies to a number of fighters. You aren't factoring in all of the variables that determine which truly makes a character the 'strongest.'

 

[monzer]

Lol have you ever played the galaxy games.

Lists like these are full of bias, especially with logic like yours. Saying things like "character can tank hits from a god" or "can regenerate easily" applies to a number of fighters. You aren't factoring in all of the variables that determine which truly makes a character the 'strongest.'

Yes I have played the galaxy games, they're my favorite games on the wii by far.

Also, this list was made to reflect the general consensus of the people on this board(I added some of my own personal opinion obviously). I even made a matchup chart for it.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

could beat any other smasher hands down, given how fast he is. After him, I'd say and

I feel like Sonic just has too much power to be taken down by any of the others, in base form alone, without emeralds he has:

• Faster than Light speed foot work
• Equally fast reflexes & fighting speed
• Incredible Martial Arts skills
• Aerokinetic skills
• An incredibly durable body capable of surviving falls from incredible heights
• Quills powerful enough to break steel and send massive robots flying
• Physically strong enough to tare robots with his bare hands
• Large reserves of stamina

Add in the Chaos Emeralds, which will grant him even greater inate powers near-invincibility, flight, teleportation, and time control skills, and I can safely say that their is not a single smasher more powerful than him.

 

[Crystanium]

Well, it looks like Bayonetta is joining, too. Great. Anyway, while I've been away, I've been working on my blog, which has mostly comprised of Samus Aran. We weren't using composites, were we? Anyway.

Physical strength
The Queen Metroid’s length is 11 m. [1], but from Val’s game blog, the queen’s length is 24.55 m. [2], so there’s some discrepancy. Vorash’s length is 29.18 m. Taking this length and dividing it by 24.55 m. means there was an increase of 4.63 m. Using this value and dividing it by 24.55 m. gives us a percentage increase of 189%. Multiplying this by the Queen Metroid’s actual length of 11 m. gives us 2.07 m., which means Vorash’s actual length should be 13.07 m. The length of a whale shark is 12.2 m. [3]. So I suppose a whale shark would be a good choice. The question is, what is the mass of a whale shark?

The average mass of a whale shark is 18.69 metric tons. [3] This is equal to 18,688,005.6 g. In order to find the volume of an object, you need to divide it by its density. Water has a density of 1 g/cm^3, which means the volume is 18,688,005.6 cm^3. For andesitic magma, I used the low-end of 2.45 g/cm^3, which would be 45,785,613.72 g., or 45.79 metric tons. I didn’t consider the large fins, nor the lava covering it, so the highest I’d round Samus’ physical strength to 50 metric tons.

Speed
This should be an obvious answer, simply because we can find out from two manuals. Samus’ speed booster was first said to “Dash at supersonic speeds” in the Metroid Fusion manual [1], and then again in Metroid: Zero Mission. [2] It’s worth noting, however, that “speeds” is plural. This would suggest Samus is running faster than Mach 1.2, which would not only be the speed at which an object travels supersonic, but also the low-end. Fortunately, in Metroid: Other M, Samus generates a shock wave.

Using this shock wave, we can find out how fast Samus is running based on Mach angle. Because the shock wave has a 70° angle, this means Samus’ top speed is approximately Mach 1.06. Technically, this is supersonic because the speed of sound is 343 m/s and Mach 1.06 is 363.58 m/s. This would make sense, at least in light of what we see in Metroid: Other M because Samus is still in the Mach cone. In order to be outside of Mach 1, she’d need to be outside of the cone. [3] A thinner angle would mean Samus is traveling. With the shinespark, Samus’ Mach cone appears to be at 30°, which would place her at Mach 2.

Plasma beam (2D)
For a long time I tried figuring out what type of plasma the plasma beam was made of in the 2D Metroid games, and then I saw the description for it from the Metroid Fusion Web site, which reads, “The Plasma Beams three lasers can easily cut through enemies, continuing on to take out even more foes.” Here we have “plasma” and “laser”, which doesn’t seem to make any sense, unless we think of a laser-induced plasma channel. This works by firing a laser powerful enough to cause blooming, which is an atmospheric effect that causes the laser to disperse, thereby making the laser impractical.

The next thing I noticed is in Metroid: Other M, where the plasma beam produces an electrical discharge. With the properties of a laser, plasma, and an electrical discharge, I interpret this to be an electrolaser. I have been unable to find the muzzle velocity of electrolasers, but if they’re anything like the speed of lightning, then Samus’ plasma beam has a muzzle velocity of 10^5, [1] assuming this isn’t referring to the return stroke, which travels 10^8 m/s. [2] The only problem is electrolasers don’t cut through things, at least as far as I’m aware. This may have to do with laser cutting, however.

Plasma beam (3D)
It’s a fact that space pirates are taller than Samus, so the question is just how much mass does a typical space pirate have? To find out, I decided I would use Hamwi’s method. [1] Devine’s formula made no sense, as a typical space pirate would be a little over a tonne. For males, the Hamwi formula is 106 lbs. (48.08 kg.) and then an additional 6 lbs. per inch (2.72 kg. per 2.54 cm.). This means that if a typical space pirate stands at 7’6″ (2.286 m.), then 30 in. is an additional height over 5′. This means that a typical space pirate should weigh 286 lbs. (129.727 kg.). That looks like a more reasonable weight.

Based on scan images, we can see space pirates have bones, [2] so what we’re working with here is similar to that of finding out just how much energy is required to atomize a human being. Space pirates appear to be unaffected by high temperatures, as we can observe flying pirates in Metroid Prime standing in Magmoor Caverns next to lava. Samus’ powered armor cannot withstand this temperature, so we should at least expect more energy than 2.99 GJ to atomize a space pirate. I will be using the calculation required to find out how to vaporize a human, but apply it to a typical space pirate for the sake of simplicity. After all, organisms are carbon-based and require water to live.

The average density of a human is 985 kg/m^3. [3] A typical space pirate has a mass of 129.727 kg., so 129.727 kg. / 985 kg/m^3 is 0.131702538071066 m^3. This is approximately twice the volume of a human. The composition of a human is 65% oxygen and 9.5% hydrogen. [4] Since water contains two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, adding these together gives us a total of 84%. This means the human body is made up of that much water. I will apply this to space pirates as well. 129.727 kg. multiplied by 84% means that a typical space pirate’s body is made up of 108.97068 kg. of water. Carbon makes up 18.5%, so 129.727 kg. multiplied by 18.5% is 23.999495 kg.

The heat of vaporization of water is 2.257 × 10^6 J/kg. This multiplied by 108.97068 kg. of water gives us a total energy of 245,946,824.76 J. The heat of vaporization of carbon is 2.9624 × 10^7J/kg. This multiplied by 23.999495 kg. gives us 710,961,039.88 J. Adding these values together gives us the total energy to vaporize a typical space pirate, which would be 956,907,864.64 J. Now that we have this information, we can find out how much energy is required to atomize a space pirate. I expect it to be greater than 2.99 GJ, simply because of the size difference.

We can now use the volume of a typical space pirate, which is 0.131702538071066 m^3. This will be multiplied by 84%, which will give us 0.11063013197969544 m^3. This will be multiplied by the atomization value of water, which is 5.138416 × 10^10 J/m^3. This is 5,684,636,402.47 J. Next is carbon. The volume of a typical space pirate will be multiplied by 18.5%, which will give us 0.02436496954314721 m^3. The atomization value of carbon is 1.565 × 1011 J/m^3. This multiplied by the volume gives us 3,813,117,733.5 J. Adding these two values of atomization gives us a total of 9,497,754,135.97 J (9.5 GJ).

With these all in mind, this should give us an idea of the amount of energy that also comes from the plasma beam in Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, as well as the light beam in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. Based on the color temperature of the light beam, it may very well produce more energy than the plasma beams, since the hotter an object is, the more energy it’ll produce.

Missiles
If missiles can be compared to real life ballistic weapons, it could be compared to a hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher, or as many commonly know it by: a rocket-propelled grenade launcher. Samus’ missiles may also utilize what’s know as the Munroe effect, [1] the reinforcement of shock waves in the concave, hollow end of a shaped charge, producing a greater resultant wave and concentrating the explosion along the axis of the charge. In other words, these missiles could be described as high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) warheads. Why? In Metroid: Other M, upon encountering Adam, Anthony, and the others, Lyle lets Adam know that the explosives are ready, but upon his attempt at destroying the barrier wall, it remains intact. [2]

Anthony explains they “tried using explosives, but it’s tricky to pull off without collateral damage.” What they “need is some way to focus the power onto one centralized location . . .” This is where the Munroe effect would come in. All the energy wouldn’t be spread out, but would be focused, delivering more damage. We see this a few times in Metroid: Other M, such as when Samus shoots at an ice wall, ice cylinder, and metal sphere. [3][4][5] This still doesn’t tell us how powerful Samus’ missiles are, however. While I could settle for the amount of explosive material is present in certain warheads, I still wouldn’t know how to determine which one to use. I suspect an alternative would require the use of G. I. Taylor’s dimensional analysis. [6]

We know that RPG warheads use HMX or RDX. I’ll settle for RDX because it has a lower detonation velocity of 8,750 m/s, while HMX has a detonation velocity of 9,400 m/s. [7] Observing the battle against the King Kihunter, when Samus’ missile explodes, there is a fireball, which on the low-end I can only say is at least 1 m. in diameter. Using G. I. Taylor’s dimensional analysis, I end up with a 9.4 MJ, or a TNT equivalent of 22.42 kg. From what I’m aware of, this is more powerful than today’s RPG warheads.

Power bombs
For some time I’ve been using TNT as the explosive material for Samus’ power bombs, but I suspect that I’ve been doing this incorrectly all this time, simply because nuclear bombs use fissiles, material capable of sustaining a nuclear fission chain reaction. While the use of G. I. Taylor’s method, (R5 ρ) / t^2 [1] isn’t incorrect, the assumption that power bombs use TNT is. Indeed, TNT is one of the most common explosives, but for nuclear weapons? I don’t think so. That would be Uranium-235.

From UC Davis ChemWiki, [2] we are told that the amount of mass lost in the fission process is equal to 3.2 × 10^-11 J. We are then asked how much energy would be released if 1 gram of U-235 undergone fission. The equation for this is as follows:

(1.00 g. 235-U) × (1 mol 235-U/235 g. 235-U) × (6.022 × 10^23 atoms 235-U/1 mol 235-U) × (3.2 × 10^-11 J/1 atom 235-U)

This is equal to 8.2 ×10^10 J. We don’t know the volume of Samus’ power bombs, but that’s all right. The required critical mass for U-235 with a neutron reflector is 15 kg. [2] This is obviously more than 1 g., so with the aforementioned calculation, just how much energy would come from 15 kg. of U-235? A total of 1,230,025,531,914,893.62 J, or 293.98 kilotons of TNT. I’m sure some may take issue with this calculation, but even if only 2% of U-235 actually blew up like it happened with Little Boy (a different bomb of its own), that still leaves us with 5.88 kt of TNT.

More here In hac mea interpretatione.

 

[Cat8752]

Welp, not sure how I'll be able to top the previous argument but it is worth noting that Kirby can copy any fighter's powers without swallowing them, as well as simply become invulnerable to all attacks for as long as he wants. Theoretically Kirby could just use a combination of these two powers to outlast all of his opponents. It is also worth noting that Kirby has defeated the Sun and Moon multiple times, and can punch planets in half, although this alone would only make him high tier. There is also the Warp Star which is able to grant Kirby more power, namely to defeat an ancient being with ability to essentially do anything.

Meta Knight's also being criminally slept on since canonically he may be stronger than Kirby. In Super Star Ultra he wanted to "become the most powerful warrior in the galaxy" and had to defeat a being sealed away for being too powerful. Unfortunately we do not know how powerful the sealed being is, all we know is that Meta Knight struck him down and came out "the most powerful warrior in the galaxy." It is also not known if Meta Knight has ever fought Kirby with the intent to kill, since some of his prior motivation to attack was that "the inhabitants of Dreamland were too lazy." However, all we do know is that when Meta Knight did fight to kill he was able to defeat the most powerful warrior in the Galaxy, and has not fought with Kirby since then, (except when they were both yarn lol.) Of course one could argue that Kirby would not be considered a "warrior" and is still more powerful than Meta Knight.

The fact that Kirby can choose to match the power of any other smasher, as well as become to invincible at any moment, and Meta Knight is said to be more powerful than Kirby should definitely be taken into consideration.

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Welp, not sure how I'll be able to top the previous argument but it is worth noting that Kirby can copy any fighter's powers without swallowing them, as well as simply become invulnerable to all attacks for as long as he wants. Theoretically Kirby could just use a combination of these two powers to outlast all of his opponents. It is also worth noting that Kirby has defeated the Sun and Moon multiple times, and can punch planets in half, although this alone would only make him high tier. There is also the Warp Star which is able to grant Kirby more power, namely to defeat an ancient being with ability to essentially do anything.

Meta Knight's also being criminally slept on since canonically he may be stronger than Kirby. In Super Star Ultra he wanted to "become the most powerful warrior in the galaxy" and had to defeat a being sealed away for being too powerful. Unfortunately we do not know how powerful the sealed being is, all we know is that Meta Knight struck him down and came out "the most powerful warrior in the galaxy." It is also not known if Meta Knight has ever fought Kirby with the intent to kill, since some of his prior motivation to attack was that "the inhabitants of Dreamland were too lazy." However, all we do know is that when Meta Knight did fight to kill he was able to defeat the most powerful warrior in the Galaxy, and has not fought with Kirby since then, (except when they were both yarn lol.) Of course one could argue that Kirby would not be considered a "warrior" and is still more powerful than Meta Knight.

The fact that Kirby can choose to match the power of any other smasher, as well as become to invincible at any moment, and Meta Knight is said to be more powerful than Kirby should definitely be taken into consideration.

kirby is 8 inches tall

 

[Murlough]

kirby is 8 inches tall

Why is height relevent? XD

He fricken beat the SUN and the MOON. I don't think Kirby cares about his height.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Why is height relevent? XD

He fricken beat the SUN and the MOON. I don't think Kirby cares about his height.

Additionally, he beat the ruler of the underworld just to get his strawberry shortcake back.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Welp, not sure how I'll be able to top the previous argument but it is worth noting that Kirby can copy any fighter's powers without swallowing them, as well as simply become invulnerable to all attacks for as long as he wants. Theoretically Kirby could just use a combination of these two powers to outlast all of his opponents. It is also worth noting that Kirby has defeated the Sun and Moon multiple times, and can punch planets in half, although this alone would only make him high tier. There is also the Warp Star which is able to grant Kirby more power, namely to defeat an ancient being with ability to essentially do anything.

Meta Knight's also being criminally slept on since canonically he may be stronger than Kirby. In Super Star Ultra he wanted to "become the most powerful warrior in the galaxy" and had to defeat a being sealed away for being too powerful. Unfortunately we do not know how powerful the sealed being is, all we know is that Meta Knight struck him down and came out "the most powerful warrior in the galaxy." It is also not known if Meta Knight has ever fought Kirby with the intent to kill, since some of his prior motivation to attack was that "the inhabitants of Dreamland were too lazy." However, all we do know is that when Meta Knight did fight to kill he was able to defeat the most powerful warrior in the Galaxy, and has not fought with Kirby since then, (except when they were both yarn lol.) Of course one could argue that Kirby would not be considered a "warrior" and is still more powerful than Meta Knight.

The fact that Kirby can choose to match the power of any other smasher, as well as become to invincible at any moment, and Meta Knight is said to be more powerful than Kirby should definitely be taken into consideration.

Why does meta knight always loose to Kirby if he's more powerful?

 

[Munomario777]

Ah boy, here we go again.

Why is height relevent? XD

He fricken beat the SUN and the MOON. I don't think Kirby cares about his height.

We've gone over this before:

Mr. Shine and Mr. Bright resemble the Sun and Moon. They aren't the Sun and Moon. You'll notice the size difference in Milky Way Wishes. If that were the actual Moon, it would be full. That's not the case. The Sun and Moon don't speak, either, so the characteristics aren't the same as the actual Sun and Moon. Finally, notice that nothing on Pop Star is taking damage. With the amount of heat the Sun produces, everything on Pop Star would have burst into flames. Clearly, the Kirby series ignores the fundamental laws of physics.

Welp, not sure how I'll be able to top the previous argument but it is worth noting that Kirby can copy any fighter's powers without swallowing them, as well as simply become invulnerable to all attacks for as long as he wants. Theoretically Kirby could just use a combination of these two powers to outlast all of his opponents. It is also worth noting that Kirby has defeated the Sun and Moon multiple times, and can punch planets in half, although this alone would only make him high tier. There is also the Warp Star which is able to grant Kirby more power, namely to defeat an ancient being with ability to essentially do anything.

Meta Knight's also being criminally slept on since canonically he may be stronger than Kirby. In Super Star Ultra he wanted to "become the most powerful warrior in the galaxy" and had to defeat a being sealed away for being too powerful. Unfortunately we do not know how powerful the sealed being is, all we know is that Meta Knight struck him down and came out "the most powerful warrior in the galaxy." It is also not known if Meta Knight has ever fought Kirby with the intent to kill, since some of his prior motivation to attack was that "the inhabitants of Dreamland were too lazy." However, all we do know is that when Meta Knight did fight to kill he was able to defeat the most powerful warrior in the Galaxy, and has not fought with Kirby since then, (except when they were both yarn lol.) Of course one could argue that Kirby would not be considered a "warrior" and is still more powerful than Meta Knight.

The fact that Kirby can choose to match the power of any other smasher, as well as become to invincible at any moment, and Meta Knight is said to be more powerful than Kirby should definitely be taken into consideration.

In the Kirby games, there's a set list of abilities (some enemies give him Cutter, some give him Wheel, etc.). Outside of Smash, he doesn't copy a foe's unique powers; rather, he gets the one from the list that's the closest. So by scanning Sonic, he'd get Wheel, not the power to move at supersonic speeds.

As for invincibility, Stone and the like have only been shown to block things up to a certain extent. We mustn't extrapolate in terms of invincibility; we can only go off of what we've seen. Saying that Stone could stop a punch is one thing; saying that it could survive a 600,000-pound-force blow from Sonic (I know, it's pretty insane. ) when it's never demonstrated anything near that is a whole nother deal.

Defeating "a powerful being" is rather irrelevant. Mario defeats Bowser all the time, but not due to any sort of superiority over him. As for Meta Knight, wanting to become the most powerful being in the universe is rather irrelevant. I want to become a millionaire, but I'm not one.

I really don't want to get sucked into this thing again, just giving my two cents.

 

[Crystanium]

It's no surprise that people think Kirby is more powerful than he really is. Death Battles didn't help, and the people who worked on the feats for Kirby also didn't help.

 

[Murlough]

I don't play Kirby so I wouldn't know. I was just saying that height is irrelevent. Bowser is taller than mario and mario wins 100% of the time (to my knowledge).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Ah boy, here we go again.


We've gone over this before:


In the Kirby games, there's a set list of abilities (some enemies give him Cutter, some give him Wheel, etc.). Outside of Smash, he doesn't copy a foe's unique powers; rather, he gets the one from the list that's the closest. So by scanning Sonic, he'd get Wheel, not the power to move at supersonic speeds.

As for invincibility, Stone and the like have only been shown to block things up to a certain extent. We mustn't extrapolate in terms of invincibility; we can only go off of what we've seen. Saying that Stone could stop a punch is one thing; saying that it could survive a 600,000-pound-force blow from Sonic (I know, it's pretty insane. ) when it's never demonstrated anything near that is a whole nother deal.

Defeating "a powerful being" is rather irrelevant. Mario defeats Bowser all the time, but not due to any sort of superiority over him. As for Meta Knight, wanting to become the most powerful being in the universe is rather irrelevant. I want to become a millionaire, but I'm not one.

I really don't want to get sucked into this thing again, just giving my two cents.

Why would Kirby get only powers from his set list? Powers aren't even consistent through games, sometimes not even having the same enemy guarantees the same power

He has an ever growing list of powers which could very well include Sonic speed

 

[Munomario777]

Why would Kirby get only powers from his set list? Powers aren't even consistent through games, sometimes not even having the same enemy guarantees the same power

He has an ever growing list of powers which could very well include Sonic speed

Because that's all he's ever been shown to have. If Kirby copied Sonic, he'd most likely get Wheel -- that's what he gets from pretty much everything else that rolls, including Sonic. Kirby has never gained specific abilities from fighters outside of Smash, which isn't canon. Everywhere else, he gets the "best fit."

As for why he keeps getting new abilities, that's because he's in a video game series, where the designers think of new ideas for each game. Why can't Mario pick up shells in the original Super Mario Bros.? Because the designers didn't think of it until Mario 3. Why can't Kirby use bells to attack in the earlier Kirby games? Because the designers didn't think of it until Triple Deluxe. Unless there's some bit of lore that says that Kirby somehow magically gains new abilities in-universe, it's safe to say that it's just a result of video game design.

Even if he did gain new abilities in-universe (and it explicitly said so in the games), saying that he'd gain any fighter's ability is extrapolation, without any real foundation. Sonic always learns new abilities, but it's illogical to say that he should be allowed to use telekinesis. He never demonstrates that in the games, just like how Kirby never uses any Copy Abilities besides the ones in the games (and K:RBAY! and whatnot).

But of course, all of this is rather irrelevant -- Kirby cannot copy the abilities of bosses (i.e. large enemies), instead dealing damage to them, and considering that he's eight inches tall, most Smash Bros. fighters classify as "bosses."

oh boy i'm getting sucked in again help

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Because that's all he's ever been shown to have. If Kirby copied Sonic, he'd most likely get Wheel -- that's what he gets from pretty much everything else that rolls, including Sonic. Kirby has never gained specific abilities from fighters outside of Smash, which isn't canon. Everywhere else, he gets the "best fit."

As for why he keeps getting new abilities, that's because he's in a video game series, where the designers think of new ideas for each game. Why can't Mario pick up shells in the original Super Mario Bros.? Because the designers didn't think of it until Mario 3. Why can't Kirby use bells to attack in the earlier Kirby games? Because the designers didn't think of it until Triple Deluxe. Unless there's some bit of lore that says that Kirby somehow magically gains new abilities in-universe, it's safe to say that it's just a result of video game design.

Even if he did gain new abilities in-universe (and it explicitly said so in the games), saying that he'd gain any fighter's ability is extrapolation, without any real foundation. Sonic always learns new abilities, but it's illogical to say that he should be allowed to use telekinesis. He never demonstrates that in the games, just like how Kirby never uses any Copy Abilities besides the ones in the games (and K:RBAY! and whatnot).

But of course, all of this is rather irrelevant -- Kirby cannot copy the abilities of bosses (i.e. large enemies), instead dealing damage to them, and considering that he's eight inches tall, most Smash Bros. fighters classify as "bosses."

oh boy i'm getting sucked in again help

I don't think either claim has evidence to justify. It's all based on assumption

But the only game Kirby can copy Sonic he doesn't gain wheel, so...

 

[Munomario777]

I don't think either claim has evidence to justify. It's all based on assumption

A lotta stuff here is (at least partially) based on assumption. The best we can really do to mitigate that, is to choose the argument that's based on the fewest, and/or most reasonable assumptions.

But the only game Kirby can copy Sonic he doesn't gain wheel, so...

And that game is also non-canon (at least, for the purpose of our discussion).

 

[Lady Byakugan]

Why is height relevent? XD

He fricken beat the SUN and the MOON. I don't think Kirby cares about his height.

That "sun" and "moon" weren't even what they're names say they are lol. He's 8 inches, all it takes is one stomp to beat him.

 

[Murlough]

That "sun" and "moon" weren't even what they're names say they are lol. He's 8 inches, all it takes is one stomp to beat him.

Well, I guess Bowser wins since he can step on all the characters. Kirby is not gonna be beaten by being stomped on. And the "Sun" and "Moon" not being the actual sun and moon has already been addressed.

 

[FEEHEELINGGS...Wo Wo Wo]

That "sun" and "moon" weren't even what they're names say they are lol. He's 8 inches, all it takes is one stomp to beat him.

Nah, Kirby can survive a planet explosion, which can produce thousands of tons of pressure,without a single scratch. Keep in mind that Popstar, Kirby's home planet,is the same size of Earth.

Additionally, he beat the ruler of the underworld just to get his strawberry shortcake back.

He also defeated Necrodeus, God of the Dead, with 1/10th of his strength.
And no,I am not being a Kirby fanboy.

 

[monzer]

It's honestly impossible to really come to a conclusion on this kind of thing, there's way too much in question to really say that one character is the strongest. The feats for most of the characters that would make them be top tier are all questionable. Because of that, this thread has come down to people(myself included) rentlessly trying to "prove" a character's feat, while another half is trying to "disprove" a character's feat. There will simply be no consensus as there is no way to "prove" or "disprove" a character's feat. Because of this realization, I can't find this thread fun anymore. So for the time being, at least, I will leave this thread.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I don't play Kirby so I wouldn't know. I was just saying that height is irrelevent. Bowser is taller than mario and mario wins 100% of the time (to my knowledge).

If you want to be technical, Bowser did beat him once. Granted, that was with the Star Rod, but still.

Speaking of, if Mario has access to all of his powers and abilities then he's pretty goddamn strong.

 

[Crystanium]

I don't play Kirby so I wouldn't know. I was just saying that height is irrelevent. Bowser is taller than mario and mario wins 100% of the time (to my knowledge).

Bowser and Mario are within a similar size range. Kirby interacts with those who are similar to him in size. It's important to keep in mind that Kirby is 8 inches compared to the rest of the roster. That's really what works against him.

Why would Kirby get only powers from his set list? Powers aren't even consistent through games, sometimes not even having the same enemy guarantees the same power

He has an ever growing list of powers which could very well include Sonic speed

The only time Kirby ever moves hypersonic is with his jet ability. Although some tried to use the warp star as a way for Kirby to win, it doesn't appear to be his preferred method of combat, so it's ignored, just like Samus' gunship is ignored and Pit's great sacred treasure is ignored. Still, the jet ability takes a brief charge before flying at top speed.

Nah, Kirby can survive a planet explosion, which can produce thousands of tons of pressure,without a single scratch. Keep in mind that Popstar, Kirby's home planet,is the same size of Earth.

He also defeated Necrodeus, God of the Dead, with 1/10th of his strength.
And no,I am not being a Kirby fanboy.

Kirby cannot survive a planet explosion. He's never demonstrated that. Pop Star needs to be proved to be the same size as Earth. Assuming Shiver Star is a post-apocalyptic Earth is not enough.

What's so special about Necrodeus?

It's honestly impossible to really come to a conclusion on this kind of thing, there's way too much in question to really say that one character is the strongest. The feats for most of the characters that would make them be top tier are all questionable. Because of that, this thread has come down to people(myself included) rentlessly trying to "prove" a character's feat, while another half is trying to "disprove" a character's feat. There will simply be no consensus as there is no way to "prove" or "disprove" a character's feat. Because of this realization, I can't find this thread fun anymore. So for the time being, at least, I will leave this thread.

I'll stick around if you do. We've come to some conclusions.

 

[randomtechguy142857]

I've noticed that people are severely overestimating Rosalina a lot in this thread.

Rosalina isn't a god. She can't canonically create galaxies or launch stars at will as she can in sm4sh. She can't create a black hole or cause the galaxy or universe to hit F5. What she can do is create a magical force field to prevent Mario from jumping on her. She can also levitate, probably due to permanent weightlessness suffered as a side-effect of spending too long in space (/r/****tyaskscience). She can make what I can only assume is a giant projection of herself, but it's unclear whether this is herself doing it or just some projector in the Comet Observatory. The Lumas can turn into Launch stars or sometimes Red stars, and under very specific circumstances into planets or entire galaxies (but this is only after absorbing a very, very large amount of energy in the form of coins or star bits).

SMG and SMG2 are both in my top 5 favourite Wii games, and I've played through both of them a lot. My guess about what happens in the end of SMG is not that it is Rosalina's doing, but simply Bowser's galaxy reactor imploding and inadvertently creating a black hole which then reset the galaxy like Rosalina said. Besides, the Comet Observatory was effectively rendered useless both at the start of SMG and in the cutscene just before you go to Bowser's Galaxy Generator in SMG2. If there were a god or anyone with a lot of power on their hands on board, I doubt that that would have happened twice if not once.

Sorry if anyone's already said this, I haven't gone through all 163 pages.

Meanwhile, Shulk's power after defeating Zanza and destroying the universe is questionable. Of course he still has the True Monado, but in reality that's not too many degrees more powerful than the other weapons in the game, and there is no "God" art in NG+. I suppose that if the discussion is about the canonically strongest character at their strongest point, Shulk would be at or near the top, as he was completely omnipotent for a couple of minutes.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Oh. This thing still exists... and it's in the Nintenzone. Yay?

 

[Cat8752]

In the Kirby games, there's a set list of abilities (some enemies give him Cutter, some give him Wheel, etc.). Outside of Smash, he doesn't copy a foe's unique powers; rather, he gets the one from the list that's the closest. So by scanning Sonic, he'd get Wheel, not the power to move at supersonic speeds.

As for invincibility, Stone and the like have only been shown to block things up to a certain extent. We mustn't extrapolate in terms of invincibility; we can only go off of what we've seen. Saying that Stone could stop a punch is one thing; saying that it could survive a 600,000-pound-force blow from Sonic (I know, it's pretty insane. ) when it's never demonstrated anything near that is a whole nother deal.

Defeating "a powerful being" is rather irrelevant. Mario defeats Bowser all the time, but not due to any sort of superiority over him. As for Meta Knight, wanting to become the most powerful being in the universe is rather irrelevant. I want to become a millionaire, but I'm not one.

Meta Knight doesn't just want to become a powerful being he wished to become to most powerful warrior in the universe that wish was granted an is now, canonically "the most powerful warrior in the galaxy" and therefore somehow stronger than Kirby.

That aside I see your logic of how Kirby has only copied abilities "to the nearest match" in game. Using that same logic, though Stone hasn't been shown to block things up to a certain extent, stone has been shown to block anything, so from what we've seen it grants total invincibility. Also I haven't calculated the force that goes into Megaton Punch, but Kirby can kinda punch a planet in half.

Unfortunately the lack of evidence put in perspective with Kirby is very slim. Many people supporting Kirby don't seem to delve too deeply into the science of what goes on in his games, trust me, I know lol

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Cyn Who do you think the strongest character is in smash? Taking note that strength I think should be looked outside larger than the physical aspect. If you have the strength to achieve what you want to do and can find the means that is probably the best strength for you would overcome any obstacle.

For example, I would say that Samus is probably the strongest character. I think there is the ability to do what is needed and find the resources to get the job done.

 

[Cyn]

Cyn Who do you think the strongest character is in smash? Taking note that strength I think should be looked outside larger than the physical aspect. If you have the strength to achieve what you want to do and can find the means that is probably the best strength for you would overcome any obstacle.

For example, I would say that Samus is probably the strongest character. I think there is the ability to do what is needed and find the resources to get the job done.

I would have to agree with you on that. The odds are always stacked against this lone bounty hunter and she does what she must to persevere.

 

[Uchihadark7]

Ganondorf could probably kill everyone in Smash realistically.

 

[Spak]

Mewtwo could literally pick up anyone using telepathy and carry them out of bounds.

EDIT: Telekinesis, not telepathy. My B.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

The only logical answer here is Jesus Christ



No?



Fine, Palutena, just don't hurt me!

 

[Wolfie557]

Kabi.
If he eats Bayonetta....the one able to kill gods far stronger than Palutena or almost goddess Rosalina...

But then again Bayonetta might be able to kill Kirby. I dunno. How the heck does one kill a baby squidgy monster with a seemingly endless void inside his belly?

 

[Shiida]

ganon that ***** is ripped

 

[Freduardo]

It's Kirby. I saw him defeat Majin Buu.

 

[Murlough]

It's Kirby. I saw him defeat Majin Buu.

Death Battle is not canon.

 

[Freduardo]

Death Battle is not canon.

No, but it uses a lot of canon resources and does more research than I care to do. I didn't realize DK was as strong as he was till Death Battle explained it. Similar to Kirby.

Now if you're saying Death Battle's interpretation of Kirby's strength isn't canon because it used the Kirby anime.... I don't know if that means it's not canon. I have a 3D episode of the Kirby anime on my 3DS and nintendo gave it to me....