Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Munomario777]

But they are.

Then show me the proof.

Didn't Reckless Godwin show you a video of this?

Not that I recall.

It can still withstand the force of Bowser's attacks.

Until he destroys that glass dome and causes the thing to explode. Not to mention that Bowser Jr. shouldn't even get that Power Star powering Megaleg, since it's not actually his (he stole it).

That his defense is around 40-50 times that of a rock.

Or that the other rock just isn't very durable. Again, I'd like to point out that the attacks don't even destroy the rock, or even leave a visible scratch or crack.

Exactly, Pokemon are more durable than castle walls.

Prove that the attack would destroy a castle wall.

The wiki sates that destroying the universe was what he was going to do.

What is the wiki's source for this?

He has homing missiles.

How fast are they, and how fast of a moving target can they track?

 

[Crystanium]

It's just the beginning cutscene of Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story. The context is that Bowser shows up, attempts to kidnap Peach as usual, Mario fights him off, but it's FAR easier than it usually is. The Star Sprite then explains that his and Peach's powers weakened Bowser. Then Peach magically/telekinetically slams Bowser through the roof and off into the horizon. That's a pretty cool feat for someone that people keep ranking bottom-tier for plotpower.

I think no one has yet mentioned Super Princess Peach.

See above.

What should I be seeing?

The "regulating waves of the very ether" quote wouldn't really apply to the Monado's ether manipulation, it would just be a different ability of the sword. I don't see where it talks about controlling ether, only maintaining it. It doesn't exactly apply here.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Making your will reality doesn't mean controlling reality, or anything related to it. A kid can make his will reality when he grows up by gaining his dream job, but none of this relates to resetting the universe.

That's not willing reality, that's striving to become what one wants to become. The context here involves altering reality, as I've said before. The Monado is necessary in the resetting of the universe. The universe has been willed to the way Shulk wanted it.

 

[Reckless Godwin 2.0]

I'm not sure, but it's fast enough that it could drive around the whole arena and eventually hit Snake. The battle depends on whether or not Falcon hits Snake before Snake kills him, which could go either way.

Okay then, I see you can understand my point now.



I move to rename the Chaos Emeralds as the “Magical Cop-Out Macguffins” (inspiration here http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/72087882?page=2 starting at post #27). Does anyone here agree?

 

[monzer]

Not that I recall.

The one that you said had charge?

Until he destroys that glass dome and causes the thing to explode.

But Bowser Jr. still has other mechs, so he can't be taken out in one hit unless an attack has amazing range and hits all the mechs at once.

Not to mention that Bowser Jr. shouldn't even get that Power Star powering Megaleg, since it's not actually his (he stole it).

He still had it once. A lot of characters here are using items the they don't technically "own."

Or that the other rock just isn't very durable. Again, I'd like to point out that the attacks don't even destroy the rock, or even leave a visible scratch or crack.

By that logic Pokemon are literally invincible because it's impossible for any attack to kill them.

Prove that the attack would destroy a castle wall.

Since when did giant explosions not destroy castle walls.

What is the wiki's source for this?

The game.

How fast are they, and how fast of a moving target can they track?

I'm not sure, but Snake has tons of explosives and theirs a good chance one of them would hit Falcon.

I move to rename the Chaos Emeralds as the “Magical Cop-Out Macguffins” (inspiration here http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/72087882?page=2 starting at post #27). Does anyone here agree?

I second this.

 

[Munomario777]

The one that you said had charge?

Those were different attacks.

But Bowser Jr. still has other mechs, so he can't be taken out in one hit unless an attack has amazing range and hits all the mechs at once.

Bowser could just plow through them (or just go around them).

He still had it once. A lot of characters here are using items the they don't technically "own."

Such as?

By that logic Pokemon are literally invincible because it's impossible for any attack to kill them.

A Pokemon fainting counts as defeat.

Since when did giant explosions not destroy castle walls.

Since they didn't destroy rocks.

The game.

Which part of the game, exactly?

I'm not sure, but Snake has tons of explosives and theirs a good chance one of them would hit Falcon.

Except they can't even catch up with him, or even track him for that matter.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Almost all of Bowser Jr's mech have a glass or no top.
So Bowser can jump on them to let them explode.

If he has his adrealine pumping he can grow giant like in Bowser's Inside Story to punch them all.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

The bee kid would have no way of knowing that Giygas would destroy the universe. If he had witnessed it before time travelling, then he wouldn't live to tell the tale. "Everything in the universe could be destroyed by the hands of Giygas." If everything in the universe truly could be destroyed by Giygas, he's clearly not demonstrating this power on Ness and co. Why? Because they're part of "everything in the universe", and they're not destroyed.

Thus, universal durability.

Then it has no future-telling credibility to speak of.

That doesn't make it false.

• "Developed and diversified" can involve changing shape.
• They're not supposed to be the same thing, but they should have something in common, which the universe and a sandwich do not (at least, not in a manner that allows your analogy to work).
• World Reconstruct only affects Zanza, not Shulk.
• He has free will, sentience, and/or self awareness, so he's not.

• Not always. Alvis is talking about letting the creatures stagnate (stop developing) which doesn't involve changing shape.
• They do have something in common. Little sandwich, big sandwich. Little ether, big ether.
• It powers up the attacks that Zanza uses on Shulk.
• None of those make an ally.

• Alvis reset the universe by himself. The Lumas simply caused a chain reaction that was dependent on the current circumstances (the black hole). It's like shooting an explosive missile at a building vs. causing an explosion by, say, backing up its water pipes.
• When does Shulk use the Monado outside of his universe?

• The Monados were the things that did the resetting. Blasting the universe also indicates that Alvis can't control nature, because you don't blast something to control it.
• Zanza did that with a weaker Monado.

You'll have to prove that they can. "Large" is a relative term.

They can damage Pokemon made from rock.

I don't see how creating a small rift with a weak suction effect = bending the entire universe, or how bending the entire universe would be harmful to anyone. I also don't see anything pertaining to your original claim about "destroying planets".

Look at the background.

So, he died?

No, due to durability.

It is. Yours isn't.

That was my point.

How much power does "continental" or "planetary" entail?

Strong enough to destroy a continent or planet.

A castle wall > steel armor.

Steel is harder than stone.

With heat. The castle wall is clearly resistant to heat, as it's touching lava.

The lava doesn't vaporize humans like Snake's.

I see. This feat would still be considered an outlier, seeing as how Wario can be killed by much lesser forces throughout that same game.

That's only so it's actually challenging.

He can't get hurt or killed by enemies. That's invincibility.

Do you have a video?

I only saw a few bits of metal fall on top of him.

Did you not see the giant explosion?

Prove that the bosses cannot have any other attacks.

We see a list of their attacks.

"They only use X attacks in their boss fights" isn't evidence of this.

When did I say that?

"he uses his strongest Monado abilities on both Shulk and the universe."

They're the only abilities he's able to use.

• "The universe" means "everything", so yes, he is. The definition is stated here. (Or in any other dictionary.) The part in [brackets] was added to fit with the Xenoblade universe, seeing as how we're working with a multiverse here (each game has its own universe).
• Except we didn't agree on your definition. We're, of course, not adding definitions to the official English language or anything, but "ally" is being used as a shorthand term, so that we don't have to keep saying "a sentient/self aware person or computer that helps the main character without said main character's interference". The former is much quicker to type than the latter.

• If you're outside everything, you aren't a part of the universe.
• Did we agree to your definition? Being quicker to type isn't a reason to change a definition.

Same difference. I asked when the Monado had been shown to manipulate things other than ether (since the combatants are not made of ether). You replied with the things the Monado attacks create, which the combatants are also not made of, so this doesn't help Shulk's case any.

Sonic attacks using speed, and his opponents arne't made out of speed. Does that mean he can't use his attacks?

A) Both of those are only relevant in his universe. Monados only manipulate ether, and Shulk is only a god of his universe.
B) He takes a human form, and even holds the Monado and uses it in combat, throughout the story.

A) Monados do a lot more than controlling ether, and Shulk can do things to affect whatever universe he's in.
B) Yeah, that's completely different from Alvis when in Shulk's possession.

"Tell me your wish." It's a wish; Shulk is asking Alvis to do something.

That doesn't mean Alvis is doing it. If my friend makes a wish from a genie, and I say that to him, I don't grant wishes.

I don't see the logic in this. Tell me why high stat boosts means that you rule the universe and everything in it.

It gives you universal power.

Authority is a type of power.

Which no god relies on.

Therefore he will ask Shulk what?

What Shulk wants to do with the universe.

Such as?

If an enemy country threatens to kill all the country's troops.

How so? He needs ether to live, does he not?

Yeah, and he has ether.

The universe is made of ether. The way something happens isn't made of anything; it's an abstract noun.

Exactly. Thus, it isn't ether control.

Then what is he using?

The Monado's universal control.

It does.

Explain.

He's made of ether, and he's manipulating his own speed, which is the motion of ether relative to ether. He's manipulating ether (or an attribute thereof).

We see quite clearly he's not controlling any ether.

Oh, I don't think that was quite clear. By lifting up a gold statue, I mean doing so telekinetically (that is, without touching it or lifting it with his arms or anything).

Actually, I don't really see your point here.

To prove a point.

What point, and how did you prove it?

Regulating waves of ether is a type of manipulating ether.

Hormones regulate the function of an organ, but they don't have any sort of control over the organ.

It talks about doing something with ether, which is all that really matters. The Monado can do stuff with ether. The Monado cannot do stuff with things that are not made of ether.

That's disproven by the Monado Arts.

The kid has to work and train to get his dream job; he has to do something. Alvis, on the other hand, "willed it, and it happened. That is all."

Shulk/Alvis didn't just "will it". He had to combine some Monados and build up enough energy first.

What should I be seeing?

Alvis: Therefore, I will ask you, it's new god.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

That your quote doesn't goagainst my case in any way.

That's not willing reality, that's striving to become what one wants to become. The context here involves altering reality, as I've said before. The Monado is necessary in the resetting of the universe. The universe has been willed to the way Shulk wanted it.

Just because Shulk did something with his Monados, that doesn't mean he's altering reality. Shulk makes things the way he wants them all the time.

 

[Munomario777]

Thus, universal durability.

No. It was said that everything could be destroyed by Giygas. However, if Ness and co. are not destroyed by Giygas, then it is false that everything could be destroyed by Giygas (as Ness and co. fall into the category of "everything", by definition).

Even if the attack did have that sort of power, this is an outlier, as Ness and co. are damaged by much weaker things about a thousand times prior to this.

That doesn't make it false.

It means we cannot assume it to be true.

• Not always. Alvis is talking about letting the creatures stagnate (stop developing) which doesn't involve changing shape.
• They do have something in common. Little sandwich, big sandwich. Little ether, big ether.
• It powers up the attacks that Zanza uses on Shulk.
• None of those make an ally.

• That would be due to a lack of ether manipulation. Alvis says that Shulk's actions (or lack thereof) could cause the world to develop or stagnate. The former is a result of Shulk manipulating ether, and the latter is a result of Shulk refraining to do so.
• Last I checked, sandwiches aren't the building blocks of reality.
• Which doesn't really mean much. World Reconstruct could, for all we know, just be "reconstructing" Zanza's arm (which is part of the "world") to be bigger and more powerful.
• They do, based on the definition we agreed to a while back in ShadowLBlue's rules post.

• The Monados were the things that did the resetting. Blasting the universe also indicates that Alvis can't control nature, because you don't blast something to control it.
• Zanza did that with a weaker Monado.

• The Monados manipulate ether, and ether alone. Prove that blasting something and controlling something are mutually exclusive. Assertions are not proof.
• When has Shulk? Zanza is not Shulk.

They can damage Pokemon made from rock.

And not destroy them.

Look at the background.

Wow, a swirly background! Surely this is the most powerful attack in the universe!...

...Actually, it's not. Ignoring the fact that Kirby is completely unaffected by this (implying that Kirby is protected from it somehow), warping space and time wouldn't hurt anybody, as they're part of the space and time that's being warped. It's pretty crazy stuff, but basically, Kirby wouldn't be any more harmed by this than the stuff in the background (which returns to normal in a snap with no harm done).

No, due to durability.

Interesting.

That was my point.

Um, okay?...

Strong enough to destroy a continent or planet.

When does the game state this.

Steel is harder than stone.

Except the stone in a castle wall is much thicker than the steel on a suit of armor.

The lava doesn't vaporize humans like Snake's.

It kills Mario and co. instantly.

That's only so it's actually challenging.

That doesn't make it non-canon.

Do you have a video?

Not offhand.

Did you not see the giant explosion?

Yes. I also saw Mega Man protected by some sort of bubble.

We see a list of their attacks.

...in their boss fight.

When did I say that?

I assumed that it was implied when you said that they only used X attacks.

They're the only abilities he's able to use.

Prove this. Assertions are not proof.

• If you're outside everything, you aren't a part of the universe.
• Did we agree to your definition? Being quicker to type isn't a reason to change a definition.

• "Everything" means "everything". Zanza is included in "everything", by the very definition of "everything".
• Yes; it was in Shadow's rules list.

Sonic attacks using speed, and his opponents arne't made out of speed. Does that mean he can't use his attacks?

No, because Sonic is the one that contains speed. Shulk's opponents are the ones that need to contain ether.

A) Monados do a lot more than controlling ether, and Shulk can do things to affect whatever universe he's in.
B) Yeah, that's completely different from Alvis when in Shulk's possession.

A) You have yet to prove either of these (at least, in a way that helps your case).
B) It's still the same character.

That doesn't mean Alvis is doing it. If my friend makes a wish from a genie, and I say that to him, I don't grant wishes.

There's no one else to represent the genie in the Xenoblade case. Let me demonstrate with an analogy:

You (A) make a wish to a genie (B), and your friend (C) wants to know your wish.

Shulk (A) makes a wish to _____ (B), and Alvis (C) wants to know Shulk's wish.

This doesn't work, because there's no one to represent (B), and (B) is integral to the situation. However, this does work:

Shulk (A) makes a wish to Alvis (B), and Alvis (C) wants to know Shulk's wish (so that he can grant it).

This does work. Alvis can fulfill both (B) and (C) (and logically would have to, as he would have to know Shulk's wish in order to grant it).

It gives you universal power.

Prove this. Assertions are not proof.

Which no god relies on.

Prove that this is an impossibility. Assertions are not proof.

What Shulk wants to do with the universe.

Provide the full quote.

If an enemy country threatens to kill all the country's troops.

That's not authority; that's a threat.

Yeah, and he has ether.

Only within himself. We humans have water in our bodies (we're about 3/4 water in fact), but we still need to drink it regularly.

Exactly. Thus, it isn't ether control.

Um... what? He's controlling ether.

The Monado's universal control.

The universe in "universal control" IS MADE OF ETHER.

Explain.

Mario uses a fireball attack. The Fire Flower grants fireballs to Mario, and he has a Fire Flower in effect, so it's most likely that these fireballs come from the Fire Flower.

Shulk manipulates ether. The Monado grants ether manipulation to Shulk, and Shulk has the Monado, so it's most likely that this ether manipulation comes from the Monado.

We see quite clearly he's not controlling any ether.

How so?

Actually, I don't really see your point here.

A superhero (A) has the power to manipulate gold (B) by holding out his hand (C). If a gold statue (D) changes shape while the superhero (A) holds out his hand (C), it's most likely that the statue (D) changing shape is a result of the superhero's (A) gold manipulation (B) powers.

Shulk (A) has the power to manipulate ether (B) by using the Monado (C). If the universe (D) is changed while Shulk (A) uses the Monado (C), it's most likely that the universe (D) being changed is a result of Shulk's (A)/the Monado's (C) ether manipulation (B) powers.

What point, and how did you prove it?

I was simply pointing out how your quote doesn't disprove our (Dryn's and my) points.

Hormones regulate the function of an organ, but they don't have any sort of control over the organ.

Actually, they do; at least, they control the function of an organ.

That's disproven by the Monado Arts.

Ether is the building blocks for everything, which by definition includes the Monado Arts.

Shulk/Alvis didn't just "will it". He had to combine some Monados and build up enough energy first.

And then they controlled ether.

Alvis: Therefore, I will ask you, it's new god.

You have yet to prove that this means anything (that gods cannot use authority).

Just because Shulk did something with his Monados, that doesn't mean he's altering reality. Shulk makes things the way he wants them all the time.

Such as?

 

[Crystanium]

This isn't going anywhere. And saying Ness has universal durability is laughable. I'm done with this thread. It was a good run, but I'm out.

 

[Munomario777]

Same, I'm out. I'm just honestly not enjoying this anymore. I proved my stance a while ago, and I'm done. Peace.

 

[CBO0tz]

So can we get like a top 10 strongest characters that you guys have discussed?

 

[monzer]

So can we get like a top 10 strongest characters that you guys have discussed?

The common consensus is that Are the "top tier" characters. However, while not being extremely powerful enough to be top tier, curbstomped most of the cast because only weapons blessed by a god can damage him.

 

[CBO0tz]

The common consensus is that Are the "top tier" characters. However, while not being extremely powerful enough to be top tier, curbstomped most of the cast because only weapons blessed by a god can damage him.

Why's Triple D on that list?

 

[DjinnandTonic]

Dedede and Meta Knight aren't usually in the top ten for most of the people here. Lucas is also debatable. I think a lot of people usually have Rosalina as higher tier as well. Marth is there too depending on whether you allow Falchion's weird invincibility stuff.

 

[monzer]

Why's Triple D on that list?

Dedede and Meta Knight aren't usually in the top ten for most of the people here. Lucas is also debatable. I think a lot of people usually have Rosalina as higher tier as well. Marth is there too depending on whether you allow Falchion's weird invincibility stuff.

MK and Dedede have the same durability and strength as Kirby. Lukas has the same state as Ness, Rosalina has the same durability as Mario, so she will get OHKOed by a large portion of the cast before she tells her lumas to do anything.

Can you elaborate on the invinciblity thing?

So I was looking at some of the earlier posts, and I saw that one person tried to narrow the cast down to only a few candidates. I think this is actually a very good idea since it could help people who are new to this board see who the candidates are, so I'll make the rough draft for how this would play out.

Spoiler

So we have the entire roster here:


Plus the characters who were removed:


So first of all: Are all either inferior alternate reskins, reskins that aren't inferior, but aren't better either and are thrown out In favor of the original skin, or characters that aren't in any other game except smash. These characters shouldn't even appear in tier lists.

Now the roster looks like this:


Then we can remove
For being too similar to characters who are significantly stronger, and For just being really weak in general.

So now this can be our final roster, but maybe we should narrow it down even further so only the strongest character of each franchise can be in the game


After doing that we finally have our candidates(Little Mac was removed for being significantly weaker than the rest of the candidates, and I'm letting the top 3 Mario characters stay as candidates because there are a lot of Mario franchises).

With Dryn and Munomario gone there's only around 4 active people on this thread.

Edit: it's been a long time since someone posted, I know Dryn and Munomario are gone but where is everyone else?

 

[DjinnandTonic]

Can you elaborate on the invinciblity thing?

Certainly. has the Falchion, a blade crafted from the fang of the Dragon-Goddess Naga. In the original Fire Emblem, the blade granted immunity to all damage-dealing attacks, except those from Dragons. (Also the description from the game seems to imply than non-dealing abilities like status effect staves and terrain effects would be able to get around Falchion's enchantment.) There is also the Darksphere, a cursed orb that grants its user invincibility to -everything- unless they are attacked by the Holysphere. Once the Holysphere has been used on them, the Darksphere's protection is nullified. However, the Darksphere corrupts whomever holds it (and directly causes the game's final villains to become evil). Marth himself never holds the Darksphere because it, along with the Holysphere and 3 other orbs are brought together to reforge the legendary Fire Emblem (a shield) that is used to help Marth defeat the Dragon of Darkness, Medeus. However, since the Fire Emblem is clearly Marth's to use and the Darksphere is indeed a part of the Fire Emblem, it's possible that Marth could receive even -greater- invincibility from the Darksphere itself, along the same lines as Ganondorf's "invincible to everything except holy weapons" deal.

Now the roster looks like this:


Then we can remove
For being too similar to characters who are significantly stronger, and For just being really weak in general.

So now this can be our final roster, but maybe we should narrow it down even further so only the strongest character of each franchise can be in the game


After doing that we finally have our candidates(Little Mac was removed for being significantly weaker than the rest of the candidates, and I'm letting the top 3 Mario characters stay as candidates because there are a lot of Mario franchises).

I personally wouldn't dismiss Pac-Man out-of-hand. He has a lot of games that haven't been discussed here that might actually prove to increase his ranking. I certainly wouldn't list Dark Pit as the strongest of the three Kid Icarus representatives. He doesn't have access to powers like Black Hole, Teleport, etc and that likely puts him below both Pit and Palutena. You could argue that Pit doesn't have access to them either since Palutena is the one granting them to him in KIU. There's also some contention on whether Meta Knight is actually stronger than Kirby. Most evidence seems to point the opposite direction, particularly with Kirby's versatility. For Fire Emblem characters, I personally agree that Robin (the one that becomes the vessel of Fell Dragon Grima at least) is the strongest. But most people here didn't accept that view and instead Marth was generally thought of as the strongest because of his invincibility options.

I'd propose your final roster of candidates just include all the contentious options as well:

 

[monzer]

I personally wouldn't dismiss Pac-Man out-of-hand. He has a lot of games that haven't been discussed here that might actually prove to increase his ranking.

I was thinking that too, but I have no idea what happens in thoose games. I also heard there's a Pac-Man show now, is that canon.

I certainly wouldn't list Dark Pit as the strongest of the three Kid Icarus representatives. He doesn't have access to powers like Black Hole, Teleport, etc and that likely puts him below both Pit and Palutena. You could argue that Pit doesn't have access to them either since Palutena is the one granting them to him in KIU.

I wouldn't give Pit the Palutina abilities, if Pit does get them then Snake would get his codec and he would be able to call Oticon or something thing like that.

There's also some contention on whether Meta Knight is actually stronger than Kirby. Most evidence seems to point the opposite direction, particularly with Kirby's versatility.

Meta Knight can heal himself to full health 5 times, making him be ridiculously overpowered. The only other character with thins amount of healing that I know of is Samus.

For Fire Emblem characters, I personally agree that Robin (the one that becomes the vessel of Fell Dragon Grima at least) is the strongest. But most people here didn't accept that view and instead Marth was generally thought of as the strongest because of his invincibility options.

Acually Robin as Grima's vessel has that type of immunity too, as he can only be killed by Chrom or the avatar.

I'd propose your final roster of candidates just include all the contentious options as well:

I would take out Pac-Man the same way I took out little Mac, I doubt he's that strong. I would also remove Dark Pit if you think that he is the weakest of the Kid Icarus representatives, I don't think any franchise other than Mario should have more than 2 representatives on this.

 

[xDizxy]

Sonic can turn super sonic and he's been compared to goku. Kirby has been compared to majin but but that's screwattack and only 10 year kids watch them. Mario can turn invincible if he obtains a star. I haven't played all the games.

 

[monzer]

Sonic can turn super sonic and he's been compared to Goku.

Yes he's around top tier now.

Kirby has been compared to majin but but that's screwattack and only 10 year kids watch them.

Please don't tell me you're butt hurt over Kirby vs Majin Buu, I know death battle can be pretty dumb sometimes, but that was one of the battles where screwattack got it right. Yes, Kirby is also around top tier.

Mario can turn invincible if he obtains a star. I haven't played all the games.

Most of the cast can just avoid him when he's invincible.


Back to the list of potential candidates, maybe we should add the costume characters, like King K. Rule, Chrom, and Protoman. since the're technically in the game.

 

[xDizxy]

Yes he's around top tier now.



Please don't tell me you're butt hurt over Kirby vs Majin Buu, I know death battle can be pretty dumb sometimes, but that was one of the battles where screwattack got it right. Yes, Kirby is also around top tier.



Most of the cast can just avoid him when he's invincible.


Back to the list of potential candidates, maybe we should add the costume characters, like King K. Rule, Chrom, and Protoman. since the're technically in the game.

When vegeta blew himself up to try to defeat majin buu, that blast was 100x more powerful than the sun, yet buu got defeated by the sun. As far we know it, only the spirit bomb can kill buu, he's indestructible. You really can't trust screwattack. Their research is so poorly done. The only reason they have one million subs is because autistic fanboys

 

[monzer]

When vegeta blew himself up to try to defeat majin buu, that blast was 100x more powerful than the sun, yet buu got defeated by the sun. As far we know it, only the spirit bomb can kill buu, he's indestructible. You really can't trust screwattack. Their research is so poorly done. The only reason they have one million subs is because autistic fanboys

I'm pretty sure they ignored his invincebility to anything other than the spirit bomb in this. Either way we shouldn't be going too much into this because it's off topic.

 

[FEEHEELINGGS...Wo Wo Wo]

Shouldn't King Dedede be higher than Meta Knight, I know that Meta Knight can heal himself 5 times, but King Dedede defeated Dark Meta Knight,who defeated Meta Knight.
Also, Peach is stronger than Zelda. Here is my proof.
http://www.deviantart.com/art/Peach-VS-Zelda-DEATH-BATTLE-Explanation-time-525793321

 

[monzer]

Shouldn't King Dedede be higher than Meta Knight, I know that Meta Knight can heal himself 5 times, but King Dedede defeated Dark Meta Knight,who defeated Meta Knight.
Also, Peach is stronger than Zelda. Here is my proof.
http://www.deviantart.com/art/Peach-VS-Zelda-DEATH-BATTLE-Explanation-time-525793321

Meta Knight wasn't using healing when he fought Dark Meta Knight. Metaknightmare ultra Meta Knight> Normal Meta Knight.

We're not counting the sports games as canon, so the soccer feat doesn't apply. Either way they're close together on the tier list.

 

[Psifi ¤WG¤]

ness defeated the embodiment of evil
donkey kong has punched the moon
and kirby... well. lets not go there.

 

[Psifi ¤WG¤]

although i havent played pokemon, i have understanding that technically a pokemon doesnt die, but faints. but, thats only against pokemon, so who knows? i dont think after getting destroyed by gygas a pokemon would just need to go to the pokecenter or whatever.

 

[Psifi ¤WG¤]

palutena is a goddess, so....

 

[monzer]

ness defeated the embodiment of evil
donkey kong has punched the moon
and kirby... well. lets not go there.

Ness didn't actually kill Gygas, he was only killed by prayers. All of DK's and Kirby's feats have already been mentioned.

although i havent played pokemon, i have understanding that technically a pokemon doesnt die, but faints. but, thats only against pokemon, so who knows? i dont think after getting destroyed by gygas a pokemon would just need to go to the pokecenter or whatever.

In this fainting counts as losing, since even if the pokemon can't die they still fainted, showing that they clearly lost the match.

palutena is a goddess, so....

Shulk, Kirby, Pit, the Pokemon, and a lot of other characters have killed gods or have been shown to be on par with them, so this isn't such a big feat. Palutina is still top tier in power though.

 

[Doctor_Link]

I think the only thing holding Kirby back is that he's been shown time and time again to not really do much thinking.

 

[monzer]

I think the only thing holding Kirby back is that he's been shown time and time again to not really do much thinking.

Yeah, Kirby never really understands the intensity of the situation in all of the games he played, since he has the maturity of a 4 year old. I mean he was able to build a spaceship from scratch, but thats the only time he was shown being smart.

 

[monzer]

By the way, I'm still working on the canon matchups chart to decide on a tier list. I feel I've done enough characters to make one now, as I now have a feel for where all the characters will be, Since everyone else is gone the canon matchless chart list is going to pretty much be the deciding tier list of the thread.

S-tier

A-tier

B-tier

C-tier

D-tier

F-tier

G-tier

H-tier

I-tier


Meta Knight and Samus are so high because they can heal back to full health really easily.

 

[DjinnandTonic]

Minor quibbles aside (Kirby characters at least a Tier or 2 too high, aside from Kirby), that's a nice list.

Roy isn't really on par with the other Fire Emblem lords, his magic sword isn't nearly as hyped or badass in the lore. Down at least one tier.
Little Mac and PacMan should probably switch too. PacMan has a lot of feats involving ghostbusting that keep him above the "Normals" while Mac is mainly just a peak physical condition human with no supernatural abilities.

The thread has also pretty unanimously decided Sonic is top tier alongside Samus at least. If Samus is alongside Shulk, then Sonic should probably be up there too.

Again, minor stuff. Apart from the strange Dedede hype.

 

[monzer]

Minor quibbles aside (Kirby characters at least a Tier or 2 too high, aside from Kirby), that's a nice list.

Meta Knight and King Dedede are on par with Kirby, as they have similar in-game stats.

Roy isn't really on par with the other Fire Emblem lords, his magic sword isn't nearly as hyped or badass in the lore. Down at least one tier.

I know, the only reason he is there is because of his stats in awaking DLC(if the DLC isn't canon he will go down a tier)

Little Mac and PacMan should probably switch too. PacMan has a lot of feats involving ghostbusting that keep him above the "Normals" while Mac is mainly just a peak physical condition human with no supernatural abilities.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Pacman can take hits from missles. Little Mac fought Donkey Kong in punch out, that's why he is so high.

The thread has also pretty unanimously decided Sonic is top tier alongside Samus at least. If Samus is alongside Shulk, then Sonic should probably be up there too.

Samus and Meta Knight are top tier because they have spamable healing that cand really be punished. Sonic doesn't have that.

If anyone's wondering why Rosalina isn't top tier, it's because she is only as durrable as Mario, so while she can OHKO most of the cast, she would die before she can do it

Edit: I just realized I didn't include any of the removed characters in the list. I'll add them when I revize the list.

 

[FEEHEELINGGS...Wo Wo Wo]

Minor quibbles aside (Kirby characters at least a Tier or 2 too high, aside from Kirby), that's a nice list.
Again, minor stuff. Apart from the strange Dedede hype.

I'm not sure if anyone brought this up, but in Kirby Fighters Deluxe, uses the power of the Fountain of Dreams to create 63 clones of himself. There are two different members: Mini Dedede and Combo Dedede. Mini Dedede are about the size of , and are not that powerful (getting killed in one hit by most abilities).
Combo Dedede are much stronger than Mini Dedede, and they are two of them,and are a little bit taller than.
Instead of Dedede using his normal hammer, he uses the Star Rod Hammer Dedede Custom, a hammer designed after the Star Rod (yes, that's the name of the weapon). http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Team_DDD
Abilities and Feats

• Can double in size
• Gains a new move set
• Attacks are very similar to Masked Dedede
• When defeated by , he knock Dedede (who is still twice his size) so hard he goes flying into space. Making this a feat for Kirby as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY16BWO8TCk
Pictures

Mini Dededes

Combo Dededes
I hope this information tells you why a high tier character.

 

[IvanQuote]

This isn't going anywhere. And saying Ness has universal durability is laughable. I'm done with this thread. It was a good run, but I'm out.

Same, I'm out. I'm just honestly not enjoying this anymore. I proved my stance a while ago, and I'm done. Peace.

It's been a great run indeed. Thank you both for making this thread as insightful and memorable!

 

[TheJolteon]

Technically Bowser has an endless army of just about everything so would he be the strongest?

 

[Reckless Godwin 2.0]

Technically Bowser has an endless army of just about everything so would he be the strongest?

No, we didn’t include each character’s armies into the calculations, but that could be an interesting thread to make. My front runner would be the Advance Wars Infantry and Tanks being lead by CO Javier while under the influence of 10+ COM Towers (double attack power and effective invulnerably to all modern weaponry except CO Powers, Missile Silos and building sized superweapons). Bowser, King Dedede and Ganondorf’s forces won’t stand a chance.

 

[JokeOnTheInternet]

Sorry if this has been posted already but I think CF is one of the strongest because of this.

 

[monzer]

The original thread was locked because of was on the old character boards, so I'm posting the old tier list I made on here.


S-tier

A-tier

B-tier

C-tier

D-tier

F-tier

G-tier

H-tier

I-tier


Meta Knight and Samus are so high because they can heal back to full health really easily.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

I wish this was real
Then my main would be the best

 

[Runic_SSB]

DK is able to punch the moon out of orbit and Little Mac beat him, so...