Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[monzer]

Are you sure it's not just a visual effect? It's quite common for time-freezing to be used to emphasize an animation - Kirby itself even does it in other places, e.g. Return to Dreamland's Ultra Sword. (Also, video evidence?)

While the main reason for time stopping during those attacks is most likely so they wouldn't get hit mid attack, I feel it should still count. On the other hand though, we would also have to let Link stop time when he drinks a potion.

 

[Munomario777]

While the main reason for time stopping during those attacks is most likely so they wouldn't get hit mid attack, I feel it should still count. On the other hand though, we would also have to let Link stop time when he drinks a potion.

Time-freezing like this is merely a gameplay mechanic – an aspect of the game itself, and not an aspect of the character (and hence not an actual ability of the character).

 

[monzer]

Time-freezing like this is merely a gameplay mechanic – an aspect of the game itself, and not an aspect of the character (and hence not an actual ability of the character).

I think that game mechanic abilities should count, but that's just my opinion. We should really stop debating Kirby's fears and focus on other characters though.

 

[FEEHEELINGGS...Wo Wo Wo]

Are you sure it's not just a visual effect? It's quite common for time-freezing to be used to emphasize an animation - Kirby itself even does it in other places, e.g. Return to Dreamland's Ultra Sword. (Also, video evidence?)

http://gfycat.com/FarflungSecretHylaeosaurus
I agree with monzer, we should talk about the other characters on the roster.
For Example: What tiers are these characters? (,,,,,,and ) or the placement of the Kid Icarus characters?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

For Example: What tiers are these characters? (,,,,,,and ) or the placement of the Kid Icarus characters?

The Pokemon are probably the highest.

Ice Climbers show ridiculous feats in athleticism and Young Link is well... Link.

Snake and Wolf while strong and capable fighters have realistic powers and abilities. Snake is better off than say... Villager, but he's still a normal human.

 

[monzer]

Snake and Wolf while strong and capable fighters have realistic powers and abilities. Snake is better off than say... Villager, but he's still a normal human.

I agree with the rest, but the star fox characters can easily take out most characters who can't fly or have no anti air attacks.

Snake is an odd case. I'm pretty sure he can tank multiple gunshots (still not that impressive compared to other characters) and turn invisible, but other than that he doesn't have much.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I agree with the rest, but the star fox characters can easily take out most characters who can't fly or have no anti air attacks.

Snake is an odd case. I'm pretty sure he can tank multiple gunshots (still not that impressive compared to other characters) and turn invisible, but other than that he doesn't have much.

He has the reaction time necessary to dodge several bullets, the willpower to resist being electrocuted multiple times, the combat prowess to defeat a cybernetically enhanced ninja, and is armed to the teeth with enough **** to blow almost the whole cast to hell twice over. Oh, and he's survived being microwaved.

 

[randomtechguy142857]

I just finished Earthbound so I finally have a (not necessarily valid) opinion on Ness: He is certainly not A-tier.

Do remember that, aside from healing, Ness did diddly squat in the battle against Giygas. Remember that it wasn't Ness's real form that was standing up to Giygas, it was only his soul and brain in a robot of non-canonically-defined strength. It could be made of plain iron, it could be titanium or tungsten carbide or proto-adamantium or supermanium or unobtanium or any arbitrarily strong substance. Ness's brain and soul strength had no effect on his survivability besides healing. Giygas also wasn't defeated by Ness's attacks, he was defeated by Paula getting all the characters and the player to pray against Giygas. In reality Ness could potentially be as low as D-tier (although that is a stretch, I would put him high-C tier).

Also, Rosalina is far weaker than C-tier. The only power she actually shows is a bit of levitation and a bit of force-field stuff. She's obviously at least a degree of magnitude weaker than Bowser, as the entire Comet Observatory got essentially made completely helpless twice by Bowser in Mario canon. (The galaxy-reset thing at the end of SMG was almost certainly caused by Bowser and certainly not by Rosalina. My guess is that as Bowser's Galaxy Reactor collapsed, the immense energy stored in the reactor triggered the black hole/galaxy reset.)

 

[Munomario777]

Also, Rosalina is far weaker than C-tier. The only power she actually shows is a bit of levitation and a bit of force-field stuff. She's obviously at least a degree of magnitude weaker than Bowser, as the entire Comet Observatory got essentially made completely helpless twice by Bowser in Mario canon. (The galaxy-reset thing at the end of SMG was almost certainly caused by Bowser and certainly not by Rosalina. My guess is that as Bowser's Galaxy Reactor collapsed, the immense energy stored in the reactor triggered the black hole/galaxy reset.)

Even ignoring the galaxy-reset thing (which is vague at best), Lumas are pretty powerful. They can turn into planets and black holes, for one thing, and even their sheer numbers are enough to overwhelm some of the cast.

(And yes, the Lumas are included – the character is "Rosalina and Luma".)

 

[randomtechguy142857]

Even ignoring the galaxy-reset thing (which is vague at best), Lumas are pretty powerful. They can turn into planets and black holes, for one thing, and even their sheer numbers are enough to overwhelm some of the cast.

Fair enough, I'll count the Lumas. Even then, they're not that much stronger than Rosalina. They can turn into Launch Stars and Red Stars, which on their own are pretty good but are nothing compared to what some others in this thread can do. However, they can only turn into planets or galaxies when they've absorbed an absolutely vast amount of energy in the form of coins or star bits. I wouldn't say that makes them powerful, it only makes them able to utilise power when it's given to them in easily accessible form.
And if they can't really attack or do all that jazz on their own (the only example of the Lumas actually attacking anything is Player 2 in SMG2, where Luma can knock out an Octoomba and that's about it), a couple dozen trying to hit someone also isn't going to do much, particularly given the power that most of the other characters have. Practically everyone in D-tier and up could easily beat the entire Observatory of Lumas if they go one at a time, and C-tier and up could almost certainly take them out fighting all at once.

 

[Munomario777]

Rosalina does have Star Bits, though – at least, I'd think she would seeing as how she's master of the stars and all. Lumas themselves can also carry Star Bits, as demonstrated by the Co-Star Luma from SMG2, who can both collect and shoot Star Bits.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I just finished Earthbound so I finally have a (not necessarily valid) opinion on Ness: He is certainly not A-tier.

Do remember that, aside from healing, Ness did diddly squat in the battle against Giygas. Remember that it wasn't Ness's real form that was standing up to Giygas, it was only his soul and brain in a robot of non-canonically-defined strength. It could be made of plain iron, it could be titanium or tungsten carbide or proto-adamantium or supermanium or unobtanium or any arbitrarily strong substance. Ness's brain and soul strength had no effect on his survivability besides healing. Giygas also wasn't defeated by Ness's attacks, he was defeated by Paula getting all the characters and the player to pray against Giygas. In reality Ness could potentially be as low as D-tier (although that is a stretch, I would put him high-C tier).

Also, Rosalina is far weaker than C-tier. The only power she actually shows is a bit of levitation and a bit of force-field stuff. She's obviously at least a degree of magnitude weaker than Bowser, as the entire Comet Observatory got essentially made completely helpless twice by Bowser in Mario canon. (The galaxy-reset thing at the end of SMG was almost certainly caused by Bowser and certainly not by Rosalina. My guess is that as Bowser's Galaxy Reactor collapsed, the immense energy stored in the reactor triggered the black hole/galaxy reset.)

Bowser never fought Rosalina directly. In fact, he ambushed her and stole the Power Stars, implying that he was afraid to face her. And it was in fact Rosalina that reset the galaxy.

 

[randomtechguy142857]

Bowser never fought Rosalina directly. In fact, he ambushed her and stole the Power Stars, implying that he was afraid to face her. And it was in fact Rosalina that reset the galaxy.

It's unclear in SMG1, but just before you go to Bowser's Galaxy Generator in SMG2 the Generator is clearly overpowering the Comet Observatory, even when it's at full capacity and strength. He's clearly not afraid to face Rosalina in the slightest.

Also, watch the ending of SMG again. There is no doubt that the implosion of Bowser's Galaxy Reactor is what triggered the black hole. The couple dozen Lumas achieving their final destiny in the black hole clearly happened after it was created. Rosalina played no part in it whatsoever — all she did was make a projection of herself (we know this was a projection because she did a similar thing at the end of SMG2) explaining what happened to Mario. My guess is she knows what's going on simply because she's observed it in other galaxies (she does, after all, live in an observatory).

 

[Diddy Kong]

This is just a random thought, but we should put the rpg characters in their own separate tier list as the mechanics from their games are so different.



The warp star has been able to travel Kirby around solar systems and even galaxies in seconds, though the counter arguement is that Kirby's universe is scaled down. The warp star travels much slower near the ground though.



I agree with Bayonetta, but Rosalina is only as durable as Mario and would be one-shotted by most of the top tiers before she would have time to command the lumas to do anything.

We should try to focus on feats for the new characters now instead of trying to validate or disprove Kirby's feats. I feel that Kirby has caused so much controversy that's been slowing us down it would be best to just put him and the other characters from his universe in an N/A tier. Rosalina and Shulk are close to reaching that level too.

New tier list opinion

Spoiler

N/A-tier(arguement about feats taking up too much of the disscussion)


S-tier

A-tier

B-tier

C-tier

D-tier

F-tier

G-tier

H-tier

Shouldn't Mewtwo be in S-Tier tho? Am pretty sure he's at least able to beat the likes of Ness and the Pits.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It's unclear in SMG1, but just before you go to Bowser's Galaxy Generator in SMG2 the Generator is clearly overpowering the Comet Observatory, even when it's at full capacity and strength. He's clearly not afraid to face Rosalina in the slightest.

...What? Rosalina appeared a grand total of 2 times in Galaxy 2, and none of them had anything to do with Bowser.

Also, watch the ending of SMG again. There is no doubt that the implosion of Bowser's Galaxy Reactor is what triggered the black hole. The couple dozen Lumas achieving their final destiny in the black hole clearly happened after it was created. Rosalina played no part in it whatsoever — all she did was make a projection of herself (we know this was a projection because she did a similar thing at the end of SMG2) explaining what happened to Mario. My guess is she knows what's going on simply because she's observed it in other galaxies (she does, after all, live in an observatory).

Yes, the Luma's caused the black hole, which caused Rosalina to reset the universe because it would've been spaghettified otherwise.

 

[randomtechguy142857]

...What? Rosalina appeared a grand total of 2 times in Galaxy 2, and none of them had anything to do with Bowser.

In the world map for World 6, there is a space which can be travelled to just between the 70-power-star barrier and Bowser's Galaxy Generator. The first time you go to this space, you enter a cutscene with Mario and Lubba at the helm of the Faceship, looking at the Generator. After a couple seconds, an object is sucked in to the Generator and Lubba says "What a surprise, it's a comet; looks like power stars aren't the only thing being eaten up around here!" With the shape and hue of the comet, along with the Baby Luma's obviously worried reaction, it is no question that this is the Comet Observatory Bowser is overpowering.

Yes, the Luma's caused the black hole, which caused Rosalina to reset the universe because it would've been spaghettified otherwise.

No, the Lumas did not cause the black hole. In the cutscene, you see Bowser's Galaxy Reactor expanding just before it implodes into a black hole, then the Lumas fly into it (as they are wont to do). Rosalina only appears after the black hole explodes and the new galaxy is being reborn — she is projected from the Comet Observatory, just as she was at the end of SMG2. The Lumas could not possibly have caused the black hole for the very simple reason that the black hole appeared from the dying Reactor before the Lumas did anything.


Also, on a completely different and more general note — do remember that DHD is actually, according to Palutena, a trio. Given that the third person in this trio is armed with a shotgun, I think a position slightly above D-tier would be more fitting.

 

[MarioMeteor]

In the world map for World 6, there is a space which can be travelled to just between the 70-power-star barrier and Bowser's Galaxy Generator. The first time you go to this space, you enter a cutscene with Mario and Lubba at the helm of the Faceship, looking at the Generator. After a couple seconds, an object is sucked in to the Generator and Lubba says "What a surprise, it's a comet; looks like power stars aren't the only thing being eaten up around here!" With the shape and hue of the comet, along with the Baby Luma's obviously worried reaction, it is no question that this is the Comet Observatory Bowser is overpowering.

Bowser with a Grand Star powerful enough to turn him into a planet-sized giant overpowering the Observatory isn't very impressive, especially considering that it was the Observatory and not Rosalina directly.

No, the Lumas did not cause the black hole. In the cutscene, you see Bowser's Galaxy Reactor expanding just before it implodes into a black hole, then the Lumas fly into it (as they are wont to do). Rosalina only appears after the black hole explodes and the new galaxy is being reborn — she is projected from the Comet Observatory, just as she was at the end of SMG2. The Lumas could not possibly have caused the black hole for the very simple reason that the black hole appeared from the dying Reactor before the Lumas did anything.


Also, on a completely different and more general note — do remember that DHD is actually, according to Palutena, a trio. Given that the third person in this trio is armed with a shotgun, I think a position slightly above D-tier would be more fitting.

That was a mistake, I meant to say they neutralized the black hole. Anyway, the point still stands that Rosalina was the only one who could have triggered the galactic reset. That much isn't up for debate.

 

[Lazerpants]

A tier

B tier

C tier

D tier

E tier

F tier

G tier

H tier

 

[randomtechguy142857]

Bowser with a Grand Star powerful enough to turn him into a planet-sized giant overpowering the Observatory isn't very impressive...

I think you might be forgetting the ever-so-tiny detail that the Comet Observatory has AT LEAST 6 Grand Stars powering it. And if you remember that Bowser was able to remove the Grand Stars in SMG1, I'm sure that if she wanted and were powerful enough to utilise them properly, Rosalina could have powered down part of the Observatory, removed a Grand Star, used it in the same way that Bowser did and — as, according to you, she is some sort of goddess even without the Grand Stars — absolutely obliterated Bowser in a heartbeat. She didn't.

...especially considering that it was the Observatory and not Rosalina directly.

Why should that be a disadvantage? Rosalina has full control of the Observatory, and it was at full power. Especially with 6+ Grand Stars at her command (assuming she's even powerful enough to utilise them properly) to Bowser's one, that should be the biggest advantage anyone's had in the galaxy. That the Observatory was completely overpowered by the Generator (even with the enormous power difference between the two 'spaceships') should show that Rosalina isn't powerful enough to utilise the power of a Grand Star like Bowser is, objectively showing that Rosalina simply isn't as powerful as Bowser.

That was a mistake, I meant to say they neutralized the black hole.

The lumas neutralised diddly squat. Even assuming 'MarioMeteor physics' in which a black hole CAN be neutralised in a way other than evaporating due to Hawking radiation, adding more matter to the hole is going to do just the opposite unless the matter is some sort of negative-mass exotic matter–like thing (which the Lumas, as they move at velocities below the speed of light, clearly are not). There's nothing in the game's text or visuals to say that they had any effect on what the black hole did in the slightest either.

Anyway, the point still stands that Rosalina was the only one who could have triggered the galactic reset. That much isn't up for debate.

I don't follow. I can't see where Rosalina did anything at all to reset the galaxy. In the game we see the Galaxy Reactor 'exploding' as it turns into the black hole, the Lumas falling into the black hole, the accretion disc collapsing into the hole and being forced outward as jets of matter and gamma rays, then the hole rapidly evaporating in bursts of visible light and only then Rosalina explains what's going on. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that she caused any of it whatsoever.

If she was the one causing the hole and resetting the galaxy, answer me this: Why would she do it when Bowser was defeated, the Power Stars and Grand Stars were back at the Observatory (mostly) and all was right with the world? There was no tactical advantage to doing it then — when things are going well for you the last thing you want to do is reset everything, and if she really had the power to do it, why wouldn't she do it at any other time in the story? The only reason I see for the galaxy resetting then is if Rosalina had nothing to do with it.


Also, Shulk in B tier? I don't see why. His power between defeating Zanza and creating the new world was absolute omnipotence (which, by any standards, should be in if not at the top of A-tier or even in a tier of its own), and after that it was just on the strong side of average, around D-tier. There was no point in the story where he was anything in between, so IMO he should either be at the very top (if we're counting characters at their strongest point) or much lower (if we're counting characters at the end of their story).

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

Canonically strongest IMO would be Shulk. Shulk practically has omnipotence.(Kill me but I've not played the game.)

 

[Munomario777]

Shulk's omnipotence is quite unclear – it could very well be due to Alvis (which is my stance on the matter). But I won't get into it again, I've discussed it enough in the past. You can search the thread if you're interested.

Depending on how it works, an omnipotent Shulk may still lose to Sonic – if he has to actually say his command / wish, as we see him do in the game, then he'd simply be too slow. Instant acceleration to hypersonic speeds aside, Sonic can also freeze time (as seen in SA2:Battle's multiplayer) and teleport (as seen in SA2's story mode).

In a measure of pure strength however, omnipotence would obviously win hands-down. (But I don't think that Shulk has that, so.)

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Neither Zanza, Alvis or Shulk have true omnipotence.

 

[Jiggswiggs]

Ganondorf, Mewtwo or Palutena probably

 

[MarioMeteor]

I think you might be forgetting the ever-so-tiny detail that the Comet Observatory has AT LEAST 6 Grand Stars powering it. And if you remember that Bowser was able to remove the Grand Stars in SMG1, I'm sure that if she wanted and were powerful enough to utilise them properly, Rosalina could have powered down part of the Observatory, removed a Grand Star, used it in the same way that Bowser did and — as, according to you, she is some sort of goddess even without the Grand Stars — absolutely obliterated Bowser in a heartbeat. She didn't.



Why should that be a disadvantage? Rosalina has full control of the Observatory, and it was at full power. Especially with 6+ Grand Stars at her command (assuming she's even powerful enough to utilise them properly) to Bowser's one, that should be the biggest advantage anyone's had in the galaxy. That the Observatory was completely overpowered by the Generator (even with the enormous power difference between the two 'spaceships') should show that Rosalina isn't powerful enough to utilise the power of a Grand Star like Bowser is, objectively showing that Rosalina simply isn't as powerful as Bowser.

I think that you're forgetting that Galaxy 2 plays out as if Galaxy did not happen, and as such we do not know how powerful the Comet Observatory is. Power Stars are not Chaos Emeralds. They don't grant people power by them simply "being powerful enough to use them." Bowser got the Grand Star's power by eating it, not because he had some special ability to do so.
Obviously, Rosalina couldn't just fight Bowser off and be done with it, because there'd be no game then. Even still, the fact that Bowser took every precautionary measure possible to avoid confronting Rosalina directly should tell you something. Brash, aggressive Bowser taking measures not to fight someone.

The lumas neutralised diddly squat. Even assuming 'MarioMeteor physics' in which a black hole CAN be neutralised in a way other than evaporating due to Hawking radiation, adding more matter to the hole is going to do just the opposite unless the matter is some sort of negative-mass exotic matter–like thing (which the Lumas, as they move at velocities below the speed of light, clearly are not). There's nothing in the game's text or visuals to say that they had any effect on what the black hole did in the slightest either.

Do you honestly believe that this franchise gives a **** about science or physics or any of that? The Lumas threw themselves into the black hole, which then exploded. Baby Luma even says good-bye to Mario, showing that they knew full well what they were doing. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

I don't follow. I can't see where Rosalina did anything at all to reset the galaxy. In the game we see the Galaxy Reactor 'exploding' as it turns into the black hole, the Lumas falling into the black hole, the accretion disc collapsing into the hole and being forced outward as jets of matter and gamma rays, then the hole rapidly evaporating in bursts of visible light and only then Rosalina explains what's going on. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that she caused any of it whatsoever.

If she was the one causing the hole and resetting the galaxy, answer me this: Why would she do it when Bowser was defeated, the Power Stars and Grand Stars were back at the Observatory (mostly) and all was right with the world? There was no tactical advantage to doing it then — when things are going well for you the last thing you want to do is reset everything, and if she really had the power to do it, why wouldn't she do it at any other time in the story? The only reason I see for the galaxy resetting then is if Rosalina had nothing to do with it.

You're a seemingly omnipotent goddess with control of the galaxy under your belt. A black hole threatens to destroy the whole galaxy, and your family sacrifices themselves to stop it. What would you use those powers to do, Guardian of the Cosmos?
And after that show of power, the galaxy is saved, and your family is returned. What do you think happened?

 

[FEEHEELINGGS...Wo Wo Wo]

The Great King's strength:

Spoiler: Kirby: Triple Deluxe Spoilers

saved from the grasp of a planet sized monster with a single swing. Not only did he knock out the rose puffball, but he harmed the monster as well. Also he did this with only one arm. Proof: http://gfycat.com/InferiorSkinnyFallowdeer

 

[Lord Dio]

Game-wise, tiers are for that.
Trophy wise, Roy for sure. Flare Blade>Warlock Punch in Home Run Contest.
Canonically for their univeses, idk.
Honestly....sonic is fastest, and if my memory is correct one of the archie comics antagonists was able to destroy multiple universes at a time.
In comparison, nat. dex pokemon trainer has multiple universal and multiversal beings.
Idk.

 

[Munomario777]

The Great King's strength:

Spoiler: Kirby: Triple Deluxe Spoilers

saved from the grasp of a planet sized monster with a single swing. Not only did he knock out the rose puffball, but he harmed the monster as well. Also he did this with only one arm. Proof: http://gfycat.com/InferiorSkinnyFallowdeer

...That's not very impressive. It is a planet sized monster, but that's not a planet-sized vine that's holding Kirby -- my finger is not nearly as strong as my entire body combined. Not only that, but Dedede just knocked him through the hole -- it wasn't that he overpowered the two-inch-thick vine or anything, just that he exploited its poor gripping technique. (There was no vine actually keeping Kirby from falling down outside of the grip from the sides -- it's like holding a large coin in the ring made when you touch your index finger and your thumb, and then pressing down on it with another finger.)

 

[FEEHEELINGGS...Wo Wo Wo]

...That's not very impressive. It is a planet sized monster, but that's not a planet-sized vine that's holding Kirby -- my finger is not nearly as strong as my entire body combined. Not only that, but Dedede just knocked him through the hole -- it wasn't that he overpowered the two-inch-thick vine or anything, just that he exploited its poor gripping technique. (There was no vine actually keeping Kirby from falling down outside of the grip from the sides -- it's like holding a large coin in the ring made when you touch your index finger and your thumb, and then pressing down on it with another finger.)

But he did harm the monster.

 

[Munomario777]

But he did harm the monster.

Yes, but this is the equivalent of stubbing the monster's toe -- effective, but not very impressive. (It also seems odd that the monster would be harmed when the hammer didn't even hit it -- perhaps it was just pulling its vine appendage back because it had no reason to be there anymore, since Kirby was no longer in its grip?)

 

[Lazerpants]

The Great King's strength:

Spoiler: Kirby: Triple Deluxe Spoilers

saved from the grasp of a planet sized monster with a single swing. Not only did he knock out the rose puffball, but he harmed the monster as well. Also he did this with only one arm. Proof: http://gfycat.com/InferiorSkinnyFallowdeer

That's an amazing feat in its own merits but compared to other smash fighters feats, it's just not that impressive
For example:

Spoiler: Xenoblade chronicles wii

Shulk has defeated a god

Spoiler: Super Mario Galaxy

Rosalina created the Big Bang

Spoiler: Bayonetta

bayonetta has defeated gods

 

[Lord Dio]

That's an amazing feat in its own merits but compared to other smash fighters feats, it's just not that impressive
For example:

Spoiler: Xenoblade chronicles wii

Shulk has defeated a god

Spoiler: Super Mario Galaxy

Rosalina created the Big Bang

Spoiler: Bayonetta

bayonetta has defeated gods

Was wondering why people were saying shulk.
so shulk and bayo have beaten gods, rosalina is universal, kirby's beaten univerals, sonic in comics has faced multiversals and is fastest, ganon is apparently nigh-invincible, poke trainer has multiple universal pokemon......

 

[FEEHEELINGGS...Wo Wo Wo]

That's an amazing feat in its own merits but compared to other smash fighters feats, it's just not that impressive
For example:

Spoiler: Xenoblade chronicles wii

Shulk has defeated a god

Spoiler: Super Mario Galaxy

Rosalina created the Big Bang

Spoiler: Bayonetta

bayonetta has defeated gods

Defeating a god doesn't make you top tier. God is just a title, not a level of power.
Also, Rosalina would need a lot of lumas to create the Big Bang.
Why do you think is top tier, anyways?

 

[Lazerpants]

These are serious spoilers so if you plan on playing xenoblade, don't click "show spoilers"

Spoiler: Xenoblade chronicles wii

the God "Zanza" in xenoblade destroyed the universe and recreated it many times. Not to mention, he killed the other God "mayneth" and harnessed her power, he then battled Shulk, and lost.

So it's up to you to decide if defeating Zanza is a larger feat than hitting a tentacle with a hammer

And as for bayonetta, I don't know much about her or her game series, but I do know that she defeated a god by flying it into the sun and thus, destroying the god.

Rosalina created the universe period. That alone is enough to prove my point

As for palutena, again, I don't know much about her series, but I do know that she is a god (name one god that Isint all powerful)

 

[Lazerpants]

Was wondering why people were saying shulk.
so shulk and bayo have beaten gods, rosalina is universal, kirby's beaten univerals, sonic in comics has faced multiversals and is fastest, ganon is apparently nigh-invincible, poke trainer has multiple universal pokemon......

I know about the others, just look at the their list I made. I was only naming a few in my response to feeheelinggs wo wo wo

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I forgot Pokemon Trainer exists.

He wins. He has several god like beings under his control.

Sure Shulk and Bayo can beat a god, but can they fight six at once?

 

[Munomario777]

I forgot Pokemon Trainer exists.

He wins. He has several god like beings under his control.

Sure Shulk and Bayo can beat a god, but can they fight six at once?

Probably not, but Sonic can. He can ram into multiple foes in quick succession at light speed (Light Speed Attack), become invulnerable for a long period of time (Super Sonic), teleport, freeze time, time travel (Chaos Control)... he's kinda OP tbh.

 

[Lord Dio]

Probably not, but Sonic can. He can ram into multiple foes in quick succession at light speed (Light Speed Attack), become invulnerable for a long period of time (Super Sonic), teleport, freeze time, time travel (Chaos Control)... he's kinda OP tbh.

plenty of tgod pokemon can do all those, and more. Can sonic controll antimatter?

 

[Munomario777]

plenty of tgod pokemon can do all those, and more.

Which ones, and how effectively?

Can sonic controll antimatter?

I don't see how that's relevant.

(Also worth noting is the fact that Sonic can accelerate to at least hypersonic speed instantly thanks to the boost.)

 

[Lord Dio]

Dialga can stop time with Roar of time for a whole turn in the games, idk for any other poke-canon. It is also able to erase people from existence when it nears Primal as shown in the Mystery Dungeon games. Most psychic pokemon can use teleport.
Not exactly at light speed, but I know multiple moves from the games involving multiple attacks, including double team. There's also Future Sight I think it's called where it hits in the future, plus moves that hit no matter what a pokemon's speed, destiny bond kos the opponent if the one using it gets knocked out.
Giratina has control over anti matter. Just showing how unique the abilities of legendaries are.
I'm actually unsure of who would win in power, just giving out points worthy of noting for multiple characters.

 

[Munomario777]

Dialga can stop time with Roar of time for a whole turn in the games, idk for any other poke-canon.

It is, then, a question of start-up time – that is, how long the actual move takes before time is frozen.

Here we can see, from the animation, that it takes about two seconds for Roar of Time to charge, and a fraction of a second more to affect the target. As for Chaos Control:

As we can see, Chaos Control seems to take about 1.5 seconds – just barely beating out Dialga's Roar of Time. (Let alone the boost's instant acceleration, and the extra time it takes for a Trainer to command his Pokemon.)

Also worth noting is the fact that Roar of Time does not beat out defensive moves, such as Protect, Harden, and others. Thus, Sonic's shields, Super Sonic, etc will be able to block it, leaving Dialga vulnerable since it needs to recharge after using the move.

It is also able to erase people from existence when it nears Primal as shown in the Mystery Dungeon games.

He's survived that, actually. In Sonic Generations he's sent to the White Space, a land of nothingness – this is where time and space end up after they've been "erased" by the Time Eater. By speeding through these environments, however, Sonic is able to restore the worlds, and ultimately turn everything back to normal with the help of the Chaos Emeralds, escaping from the White Space into the normal world. Fortunately he has the Emeralds from the get-go here... so this wouldn't be very effective.

Also, Dialga's Primal state is due to the events of that particular game, and as far as I can tell cannot be initiated at will, during a trainer battle. (It was because the flow of time had been disrupted by outside forces, which would not be the case during this battle.)

Most psychic pokemon can use teleport.

Ah, yes, forgot about that.

Not exactly at light speed, but I know multiple moves from the games involving multiple attacks, including double team. There's also Future Sight I think it's called where it hits in the future, plus moves that hit no matter what a pokemon's speed, destiny bond kos the opponent if the one using it gets knocked out.

All of these, however, suffer the same problems as Roar of Time: they're stopped by defensive techniques (except Future Sight), and aren't fast enough to activate before Sonic's attacks. (If I'm wrong, please do correct me, I'm not very familiar with Pokemon, just going off of Bulbapedia here.)

Giratina has control over anti matter. Just showing how unique the abilities of legendaries are.

Interesting.