Who's Canonically the Strongest Character in Smash?

[Munomario777]

There is dodging in Pokémon. If there wasn't dodging, every attack would hit all the time, and that doesn't happen, due to evasion. Mario already used his Starman. There's nothing that would allow for Aura Sphere to miss, other than those moves. Mario isn't using two of them, and the other one would cause a flying battle because Mewtwo is flying as well.

Do you mean dodging as an action (as in, hit a button to dodge) or the Evasion stat? Because I've never seen a Pokemon use Move Two Feet To The Side in a battle before. If you can prove that Aura Sphere has a specific property that would actually cause it to always hit an opponent, even one that uses Move Two Feet To The Side (such as, say, a homing ability), then I will reconsider.

Using a Ground Pound before the Mega Mushroom grows would do pretty much nothing, as I've said before. Meanwhile, Mewtwo could use telekinesis to take the Mega Mushroom and apply it to himself.

Why would ground pounding while transforming be ineffective? Power-ups usually don't actually appear when Mario equips them; they just get equipped, so TK won't work here.

Still not enough power to do anything, especially when Mewtwo uses Barrier.

Has Mewtwo survived an attack with that much force before?

Starman doesn't block anything that powerful. Getting specific, Invincible Mario can be crushed, and Mewtwo can crush him with telekinesis.

Invincible Mario can only get crushed by walls that simply cannot be stopped, such as those found in a tower stage. Thwomps, for example, cannot crush him; they simply get destroyed.

It takes six Pokémon to actually beat Arceus, so the power is divided. Not sure anyone besides Mega Mewtwo can beat Arceus one-on-one.

Source please?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

It takes six Pokémon to actually beat Arceus, so the power is divided. Not sure anyone besides Mega Mewtwo can beat Arceus one-on-one.

We still don't see region it happens in getting absolutely annihilated after the battle with the universal creator. Either he limits himself greatly (which means his stats are fake or just incorrect because he limits his power) or he is too weak for a god. And Arceus can FAINT. That alone is ridicolous.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Do you mean dodging as an action (as in, hit a button to dodge) or the Evasion stat? Because I've never seen a Pokemon use Move Two Feet To The Side in a battle before. If you can prove that Aura Sphere has a specific property that would actually cause it to always hit an opponent, even one that uses Move Two Feet To The Side (such as, say, a homing ability), then I will reconsider.

Dodging as in evasion, it's the exact same thing as Move Two Feet to the Side, seeing as you can't dodge something without moving.

Why would ground pounding while transforming be ineffective? Power-ups usually don't actually appear when Mario equips them; they just get equipped, so TK won't work here.

Aura Sphere would prevent Mario from getting up there in the first place.

Has Mewtwo survived an attack with that much force before?

You can hit him with several Rock Smashes in the games, yet he'll be just fine.

Invincible Mario can only get crushed by walls that simply cannot be stopped, such as those found in a tower stage. Thwomps, for example, cannot crush him; they simply get destroyed.

The reason Thwomps are destroyed is because they're enemies, and enemies die when they touch Invincible Mario. Unstoppable walls and telekinesis aren't actually enemies, explaining why they work.

Source please?

Diamond/Pearl.

We still don't see region it happens in getting absolutely annihilated after the battle with the universal creator. Either he limits himself greatly (which means his stats are fake or just incorrect because he limits his power) or he is too weak for a god. And Arceus can FAINT. That alone is ridicolous.

Arceus' stats are still ridiculously high, as a universal creator. Since Arceus doesn't die when he's defeated, that's probably why the region doesn't explode. Or because that isn't what would happen. If you destroy a wrecking ball that can destroy a building, a building isn't destroyed.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Arceus' stats are still ridiculously high, as a universal creator. Since Arceus doesn't die when he's defeated, that's probably why the region doesn't explode. Or because that isn't what would happen. If you destroy a wrecking ball that can destroy a building, a building isn't destroyed.

Thats not what i meant. If he would die, nothing would happen since he already created the universe and even if it would, then this region wouldn't be the only thing to vanish. What i meant is more like what will happen if the guy who moves that wrecking ball would decide to crush a fly that sits on the wall of the building.
If he is as powerful as universal creator should be, then after his attacks, nothing should be left remaining on the battlefield other than ashes or just void, depending on the mood i guess. And yet, everything is fine.

 

[Munomario777]

Dodging as in evasion, it's the exact same thing as Move Two Feet to the Side, seeing as you can't dodge something without moving.

Does the in-game animation show the Pokemon actually moving?

You can hit him with several Rock Smashes in the games, yet he'll be just fine.

Smashing rocks =/= smashing things with rocks.

The reason Thwomps are destroyed is because they're enemies, and enemies die when they touch Invincible Mario. Unstoppable walls and telekinesis aren't actually enemies, explaining why they work.

TK is an enemy attack, and Starman negates enemy attacks (including projectiles).

Diamond/Pearl.

As in documentation of this requirement, not the game it appears in. Also, is this for making Arceus faint, or for catching it?

Arceus' stats are still ridiculously high, as a universal creator. Since Arceus doesn't die when he's defeated, that's probably why the region doesn't explode. Or because that isn't what would happen. If you destroy a wrecking ball that can destroy a building, a building isn't destroyed.

If an all-powerful deity is being attacked, then you'd think it would use its full power to defend itself. Arceus isn't like a wrecking ball; wrecking balls don't uphold buildings. A more apt comparison would be the reactor core of the Death Star (or a column of a building, if we're sticking with that analogy).

 

[BaganSmashBros]

If an all-powerful deity is being attacked, then you'd think it would use its full power to defend itself. Arceus isn't like a wrecking ball; wrecking balls don't uphold buildings. A more apt comparison would be the reactor core of the Death Star (or a column of a building, if we're sticking with that analogy).

I don't think Arceus' death would cause such reaction. More like if that building would no longer be maintained.
EDIT: whoops, i think this is what you meant.

 

[Nerdicon]

The latter is misleading, he destroys NOVA by blowing up several crystals the same size as him in the Starship. He doesn't physically defeat a planet sized being in a fight.
I don't doubt Kirby's attacks hurt (would you want an 8 inch sword through an important body part?), but I have been wondering if a number of characters (presuming he's knocked off of his Warp Star) couldn't just grab Kirby and crush him with their hands (only works for the really large characters) or stomp him till he loses all his bars.

He also doesn't defeat Nova, just destroys a small portion of him. Nova was destroyed when Marx flew into him at the end of Milky Way Wishes. As for crushing, it's not really an issue when you have 5 invincibility candies that can be applied instantly at any time. What you guys are forgetting is the warp star itself. If a 15 pound object is hurtling towards you at the speed of light with an electric blade extended in your direction, it will hurt, a lot.

Kirby can call for one on his cellphone (from Kirby 64: Crystal Shards and the Amazing Mirrror (GBA).

This seems to ignore the basic laws of physics for gameplay reasons. In Kirby and the Amazing Mirror the warp star goes through solid objects if you call it in an area with a ceiling. He seems to have an infinite number of them, or one that keeps coming back no matter how many times he crashes it.

There is dodging in Pokémon. If there wasn't dodging, every attack would hit all the time, and that doesn't happen, due to evasion. Mario already used his Starman. There's nothing that would allow for Aura Sphere to miss, other than those moves. Mario isn't using two of them, and the other one would cause a flying battle because Mewtwo is flying as well.

He has a point @ Munomario777 , the only way aura sphere can miss is if something blocks it. In the spin-offs (most notably the Mystery Dungeon games) it homes in on it's target.

Using a Ground Pound before the Mega Mushroom grows would do pretty much nothing, as I've said before. Meanwhile, Mewtwo could use telekinesis to take the Mega Mushroom and apply it to himself.

While I agree that ground pounding before the Mega Mushroom takes effect is pointless, Mario can apply his power-ups instantly so no Mewtwo can't take it via telekinesis. He can however take it using Snatch, as long as he predicts when Mario will use the attack.

Still not enough power to do anything, especially when Mewtwo uses Barrier.

Barrier doubles defense, but Mewtwo can still take damage. I think getting ground pounded is still going to hurt quite a bit.

Starman doesn't block anything that powerful. Getting specific, Invincible Mario can be crushed, and Mewtwo can crush him with telekinesis.

This is true

It takes six Pokémon to actually beat Arceus, so the power is divided. Not sure anyone besides Mega Mewtwo can beat Arceus one-on-one.

And this is one of the falsest things I've ever heard. A level 1 Starly can beat a level 100 Arceus with the correct items and moveset. Any Pokémon can defeat any other Pokémon with the right setup.

 

[Munomario777]

This seems to ignore the basic laws of physics for gameplay reasons. In Kirby and the Amazing Mirror the warp star goes through solid objects if you call it in an area with a ceiling. He seems to have an infinite number of them, or one that keeps coming back no matter how many times he crashes it.

If it can only go through ceilings for gameplay reasons, and this arena has a ceiling, shouldn't that mean that Kirby doesn't get the Warp Star?

He has a point @ Munomario777 , the only way aura sphere can miss is if something blocks it. In the spin-offs (most notably the Mystery Dungeon games) it homes in on it's target.

Okay, now we're actually getting somewhere. How fast can Aura Sphere travel?

While I agree that ground pounding before the Mega Mushroom takes effect is pointless, Mario can apply his power-ups instantly so no Mewtwo can't take it via telekinesis. He can however take it using Snatch, as long as he predicts when Mario will use the attack.

To clarify, what I meant by ground pounding before it grows is using the Mega Mushroom, initiating the ground pound during the transformation sequence (the somersault part of the ground pound), and by the time the descent starts, Mario will be Mega.

Barrier doubles defense, but Mewtwo can still take damage. I think getting ground pounded is still going to hurt quite a bit.

Yup.

This is true

I doubt that TK would work, because Mewtwo is an enemy, like a Thwomp, and TK is an attack, like the hammers, fire, magic, etc., all of which are negated by the Starman.

 

[Crystanium]

I'm not sure how useful the FTL travel would be anyways, because A) Samus might not be able to control it effectively in this small area (I'd imagine it's usually used for interplanetary travel) and B) light speed and 7x light speed are still going to cross ten miles nearly instantaneously. I haven't found a source for this speed, by the way.

It would make sense for ships traveling at superluminal speeds to choose a destination before flying in that particular direction. This seems to be what Samus does as seen in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. As for the speed, it's from the official Metroid Prime Web site.

Vessel Classification Hunter-class gunship
Weight 136 tons
Crew 1
Dimensions 9.144 meters by 6.096 meters by 2.4384 meters
Drive type Relativistic: 44 MHz
Power source Field-exclusion Gluino
Maximum velocity: 7.2 x 10 C

It's actually 7.2, not 7.5, as I had previously thought.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

It would make sense for ships traveling at superluminal speeds to choose a destination before flying in that particular direction. This seems to be what Samus does as seen in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. As for the speed, it's from the official Metroid Prime Web site.

Vessel Classification Hunter-class gunship
Weight 136 tons
Crew 1
Dimensions 9.144 meters by 6.096 meters by 2.4384 meters
Drive type Relativistic: 44 MHz
Power source Field-exclusion Gluino
Maximum velocity Relativistic: 7.2 x 10 C

It's actually 7.2, not 7.5, as I had previously thought.

Then she'd better limit its speed or else she'll pull Big Rigs on it (i think many know what i mean by that).

 

[Munomario777]

It would make sense for ships traveling at superluminal speeds to choose a destination before flying in that particular direction. This seems to be what Samus does as seen in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. As for the speed, it's from the official Metroid Prime Web site.

Vessel Classification Hunter-class gunship
Weight 136 tons
Crew 1
Dimensions 9.144 meters by 6.096 meters by 2.4384 meters
Drive type Relativistic: 44 MHz
Power source Field-exclusion Gluino
Maximum velocity Relativistic: 7.2 x 10 C

It's actually 7.2, not 7.5, as I had previously thought.

I see. Still, it's not exactly ideal for a combat situation like this.

Then she'd better limit its speed or else she'll pull Big Rigs on it (i think many know what i mean by that).

You mean this?

 

[Crystanium]

I see. Still, it's not exactly ideal for a combat situation like this.

She would at least be able to ram into her opponents at high speeds. In order to leave Earth's orbit, one must reach the escape velocity, meaning Samus' ship would at least have to travel 11.2 kilometers per second, or 25,043.48 miles per hour. She has left more planets than one, so she could travel at speeds where she could cover less than 10 miles in one second.

Also, wouldn't this mean Pit gets to have the great sacred treasure? He travels extremely fast and catches up with Hades who left him before the chase began.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Smashing rocks =/= smashing things with rocks.

Yet, the rock is also smashed as well, so Mewtwo is hit with the force of an attack that can smash rocks. Similar to Ground Pound.

TK is an enemy attack, and Starman negates enemy attacks (including projectiles).

Not all attacks are negated. Black holes are made from a Luma, and the Starman doesn't negate it.

If it can only go through ceilings for gameplay reasons, and this arena has a ceiling, shouldn't that mean that Kirby doesn't get the Warp Star?

It could still be in the arena, like the Gunship.

To clarify, what I meant by ground pounding before it grows is using the Mega Mushroom, initiating the ground pound during the transformation sequence (the somersault part of the ground pound), and by the time the descent starts, Mario will be Mega.

Snatch would work, plus a homing Aura Sphere + a Thunder or two could prevent Mario from getting up there in the first place.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

You mean this?

Yes. She won't reach 12.3 undecillion miles per hour, but it will still be enough.

Just wanted to ask something - since diffusion beam affects Samus' beams, would it have any effect on things like Disruptor and Charge...Combos, was it?

 

[Nerdicon]

If it can only go through ceilings for gameplay reasons, and this arena has a ceiling, shouldn't that mean that Kirby doesn't get the Warp Star?

Eh. I'd say he should just because that's how it works in-game. He can make a warp star via the star rod anyway.

Okay, now we're actually getting somewhere. How fast can Aura Sphere travel?

I have no idea

To clarify, what I meant by ground pounding before it grows is using the Mega Mushroom, initiating the ground pound during the transformation sequence (the somersault part of the ground pound), and by the time the descent starts, Mario will be Mega.

Oh, well that won't be too helpful if Mewtwo just stays in the air

I doubt that TK would work, because Mewtwo is an enemy, like a Thwomp, and TK is an attack, like the hammers, fire, magic, etc., all of which are negated by the Starman.

Why not? It's the equivalent of two invisible objects sandwiching Mario to death. Mario could avoid the attack altogether if he kept moving, as evidenced by Psychic's accuracy. If an attack has 100% accuracy then it can miss based on the opponent's evasiveness. Rock Mario is an example of what I think would be necessary to avoid Psychic's influence.

 

[MM_Row]

Very interesting thread

 

[Nerdicon]

Also, wouldn't this mean Pit gets to have the great sacred treasure? He travels extremely fast and catches up with Hades who left him before the chase began.

Yes, but the GST isn't a big issue for the high tiers who can easily destroy it.
On a side note I feel these characters are in the top 3. They're listed in no particular order

These three pretty much own everyone beneath them (with a few minor exceptions)
The characters below them would be (in no particular order)
C-
After that I feel would be

Very interesting thread

Indeed.
Welcome to the boards!

 

[Crystanium]

Yes. She won't reach 12.3 undecillion miles per hour, but it will still be enough.

Just wanted to ask something - since diffusion beam affects Samus' beams, would it have any effect on things like Disruptor and Charge...Combos, was it?

It would, but probably not with charge combos. I really wonder what the dark, light, annihilator, and nova beam would look like. Just imagine the damage output. To be honest, the way the ice beam behaves with the diffusion effect makes me think of the ice spreader in Metroid Prime.

Yes, but the GST isn't a big issue for the high tiers who can easily destroy it.
On a side note I feel these characters are in the top 3. They're listed in no particular order

These three pretty much own everyone beneath them (with a few minor exceptions)
The characters below them would be (in no particular order)
C-
After that I feel would be


Indeed.
Welcome to the boards!

Well, with the ships, I think Samus and Kirby could destroy the GST. Sonic travels at light speed for a brief moment. I'm not sure where the idea of his power increasing by 1,000% comes from, but even if we work with Mach 5 as Sonic's top speed (ignoring the light speed dash), then in his super form, he should be able to travel Mach 50.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

It would, but probably not with charge combos. I really wonder what the dark, light, annihilator, and nova beam would look like. Just imagine the damage output. To be honest, the way the ice beam behaves with the diffusion effect makes me think of the ice spreader in Metroid Prime.

Disruptor would possibly be charged Wave Beam on steroids, Entangler would probably be same as Ice Spreader (but made of dark energy), Lightblast would be either 10 giant homing spheres that set opponent on fire or same as it usually is but with higher blast radius while Nova Beam would pretty much be same as Plasma Beam. Not as interesting as their charge combos versions.

 

[ShadowLBlue]

He also doesn't defeat Nova, just destroys a small portion of him. Nova was destroyed when Marx flew into him at the end of Milky Way Wishes.

True.

As for crushing, it's not really an issue when you have 5 invincibility candies that can be applied instantly at any time.

That's one of his many defenses for it.

What you guys are forgetting is the warp star itself. If a 15 pound object is hurtling towards you at the speed of light with an electric blade extended in your direction, it will hurt, a lot.

What is 15 pounds? The Warp Star? And Kirby won't be going at light speed here but if you're point is he'll be flying really fast, I agree.

While I agree that ground pounding before the Mega Mushroom takes effect is pointless, Mario can apply his power-ups instantly so no Mewtwo can't take it via telekinesis. He can however take it using Snatch, as long as he predicts when Mario will use the attack.

Except it only applies to stat changing moves, so it would only work if Mario a recovery item or something like Metal Cap.

@ Kirby Dragons Telekinsis is an attack, therefore it can be blocked by Starman. Furthermore, Telekinesis does not and has not ever crushed anything but Pokeballs in the game or the anime. BTW, can you repost your tier list?

Regardless, since we've reached a majority on all the rules, I think we need to work on our aggregate tier list. I don't think @ Nerdicon and @ BaganSmashBros ,and @Dryn have done one. You don't have to rank all 55 something characters, just do a top 15.
And @ Munomario777 , could you repost yours with 15 without not posting similar characters (i.e. Mario and Luigi, Pit and Dark Pit) "to avoid redundancy".

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Regardless, since we've reached a majority on all the rules, I think we need to work on our aggregate tier list. I don't think @ Nerdicon and @ BaganSmashBros ,and @Dryn have done one. You don't have to rank all 55 something characters, just do a top 15.

I don't know enough about other characters to make one. Just know what Samus can do and some minor things about few other characters (like Kirby and co's size, Ganondorf's suprising agility even when he is older than dirt, etc).

 

[Munomario777]

She would at least be able to ram into her opponents at high speeds. In order to leave Earth's orbit, one must reach the escape velocity, meaning Samus' ship would at least have to travel 11.2 kilometers per second, or 25,043.48 miles per hour. She has left more planets than one, so she could travel at speeds where she could cover less than 10 miles in one second.

She could, but I don't think the higher-end speeds would be useful in such a confined space.

Also, wouldn't this mean Pit gets to have the great sacred treasure? He travels extremely fast and catches up with Hades who left him before the chase began.

I've accounted for this in my analyses involving Pit, actually.

Eh. I'd say he should just because that's how it works in-game. He can make a warp star via the star rod anyway.

By travelling through walls, do you mean that the Warp Star sprite "overrides" that of the walls? In that case, it seems like it's simply travelling in front of them, in the foreground. Since there are solid surfaces to all sides here, this wouldn't work. As for the Star Rod, I believe that's against the rules.

I have no idea

Okay then. Does anyone have any Aura Sphere footage?

Oh, well that won't be too helpful if Mewtwo just stays in the air

The Cape Feather or another flight power-up could get him above Mewtwo.

Why not? It's the equivalent of two invisible objects sandwiching Mario to death. Mario could avoid the attack altogether if he kept moving, as evidenced by Psychic's accuracy. If an attack has 100% accuracy then it can miss based on the opponent's evasiveness. Rock Mario is an example of what I think would be necessary to avoid Psychic's influence.

The Starman protects against visible objects sandwiching Mario to death (AKA Thwomps), so I don't see why Psychic would do any better. You make a good point about accuracy.

And @ Munomario777 , could you repost yours with 15 without not posting similar characters (i.e. Mario and Luigi, Pit and Dark Pit) "to avoid redundancy".

Okay, then.

1. - 11 day invincibility, blistering speed, teleportation, time freezing, etc. make him an extremely powerful character, and he could take on most of (if not all of) the other contenders.
2. - Black holes, stars, a practically endless army of Lumas, and other cosmic feats make her a force to be reckoned with, especially with items like the Starman.
3. - Being composite gives him access to the deadly Magic Armor and Chateau Romani combination, meaning that he can be practically invincible for up to three days straight. All of his speed, strength, durability, etc. upgrades make him formidable even without this though, in addition to his items.
4. - Super-durable armor, a variety of beam weapons, missiles, bombs, speed, agility, the works.
5. - While his invulnerability to non-holy attacks gives him the advantage over most characters, his comparative lack of powerful offensive techniques bumps him down a notch.
6. - He's only six inches tall, but he sure packs a punch. And a hammer. And a stone form. And a giant sword. And a rainbow vacuum attack. And a-- you get the point.
7. - Powers make her rather, well, powerful, and the Mega Laser gives her a great option to use at the start of a match. Also, this.
8. - With his variety of life-giving, ability-enhancing power-ups, Mario is a very formidable fighter.
9. - Has most of the same power-ups and such as Mario as well as the Poltergust, but F.L.U.D.D. and the Super Suit from Mario RPG push Mario just above his brother.
10. - Weapon variety makes him very adaptable to almost any situation.
11. - Pretty much a carbon copy of Pit.
    
12. - (Yay Smash 4 smilie! :D) Psychic powers make him the most powerful Pokemon.
13. - The Monado Arts and various upgrades, gear, etc. make him rather formidable.
    
14. - He has a variety of psychic powers and gear to help him in a fight.
    
15. - A super fighting robot, Mega Man has a variety of weapons, both up close and at a distance.

 

[Nerdicon]

By travelling through walls, do you mean that the Warp Star sprite "overrides" that of the walls? In that case, it seems like it's simply travelling in front of them, in the foreground. Since there are solid surfaces to all sides here, this wouldn't work. As for the Star Rod, I believe that's against the rules.

That's exactly what happens, except there's no foreground to travel through. Even in areas that are clearly closed in the star appears (like the Moonlight Mansion for example). Also, how is the star rod against the rules? It's an ability of the character. It's a recurring ability of the character!

The Starman protects against visible objects sandwiching Mario to death (AKA Thwomps), so I don't see why Psychic would do any better. You make a good point about accuracy.

But thwomps are enemies, the crushing is overridden by the starman defeating the thwomp. In the case of psychic there's no enemy to kill so Mario gets crushed.

 

[Munomario777]

That's exactly what happens, except there's no foreground to travel through. Even in areas that are clearly closed in the star appears (like the Moonlight Mansion for example). Also, how is the star rod against the rules? It's an ability of the character. It's a recurring ability of the character!

Then how did Kirby get inside if it's completely closed in?

As for the Star Rod, IIRC it was in @ ShadowLBlue 's rules post; you can talk to him about that.

But thwomps are enemies, the crushing is overridden by the starman defeating the thwomp. In the case of psychic there's no enemy to kill so Mario gets crushed.

Starman negates projectiles as well, as shown by Magikoopas, Hammer Brothers, etc.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Then how did Kirby get inside if it's completely closed in?

As for the Star Rod, IIRC it was in @ ShadowLBlue 's rules post; you can talk to him about that.

The Warp Star should be in the arena like the Gunship. As for the Star Rod, it's been in two or three games, and it doesn't belong to anyone besides Kirby, so it should be allowed.

Starman negates projectiles as well, as shown by Magikoopas, Hammer Brothers, etc.

Not any projectiles this powerful.

 

[Munomario777]

The Warp Star should be in the arena like the Gunship. As for the Star Rod, it's been in two or three games, and it doesn't belong to anyone besides Kirby, so it should be allowed.

I agree that the Warp Star should be in the arena if vehicles are allowed, but that's not finalized yet, so I'm working with the prior rules. Again, I'm not the one who decided the Star Rod's legality, so you can talk to Shadow about that.

Not any projectiles this powerful.

What makes you say that Psychic is more powerful than the projectiles in Mario, may I ask?

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I decided the Star Rod's legality, so you can talk to Shadow about that.

Why would I talk to Shadow if you decided the Star Rod's legality?

(NOTE: I know you didn't actually say this, I'm just being childish.)

What makes you say that Psychic is more powerful than the projectiles in Mario, may I ask?

The ability to crush metal.

@ ShadowLBlue Is Kirby's Star Rod allowed? It's been in multiple games. Also, I'll repost my tier list soon.

 

[Munomario777]

Why would I talk to Shadow if you decided the Star Rod's legality?

(NOTE: I know you didn't actually say this, I'm just being childish.)

I didn't. He did.

The ability to crush metal.

When has Mewtwo crushed metal with Psychic?

 

[ShadowLBlue]

Why would I talk to Shadow if you decided the Star Rod's legality?

(NOTE: I know you didn't actually say this, I'm just being childish.)

The ability to crush metal.

@ ShadowLBlue Is Kirby's Star Rod allowed? It's been in multiple games. Also, I'll repost my tier list soon.

It's actually only been in one game (Kirby's adventure) and it's remake (Nightmare in Dreamland). It's ruled as illegal because of rule 6: Characters don't get items/weapons/abilties they don't really own and/or only appeared in one game, a la the Triforce for Ganon (A Link to the Past), Samus's Hyper Beam, Excalibur for Sonic or the Star Rod for Kirby or Bowser, etc.

@ Munomario777 , Sonic doesn't get 11 days of invincibility. Everyone (minus Nerdicon) voted that Chao Garden total ring count (specifically the Black Market) will be ignored and Sonic's ring total will be based off of his highest total in any main/action mode in a Sonic game, which I believe is 9,999. Which would give him 2 hours and 47 minutes of Super Sonic.

 

[Munomario777]

@ Munomario777 , Sonic doesn't get 11 days or invincibility. Everyone (minus Nerdicon) voted that Chao Garden total ring count (specifically the Black Market) will be ignored and Sonic's ring total will be based off of his highest total in any main/action mode in a Sonic game, which I believe is 9,999. Which would give him 2 hours and 47 minutes of Super Sonic.

Last I checked, the inclusion of mini-games, sidequests, etc. was based on their relation with the story:

We're not excluding mini-games, we're excluding mini-games that take place outside of the story.

The Chao Keys are in the main story missions, the Chao Garden island is on the main story map, main story levels in later games reference it by name, the titular Chao creatures are the main reason for the whole story of Sonic Adventure (seeing as how Chaos is a mutated chao), and there are many more connections to the main story modes. If that's not a minigame that's connected to the story, then I don't know what is.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

It's actually only been in one game (Kirby's adventure) and it's remake (Nightmare in Dreamland). It's ruled as illegal because of rule 6: Characters don't get items/weapons/abilties they don't really own and/or only appeared in one game, a la the Triforce for Ganon (A Link to the Past), Samus's Hyper Beam, Excalibur for Sonic or the Star Rod for Kirby or Bowser, etc.

Well, then the Warp Star would be in the arena due to the vehicle rule.

I didn't. He did.

Read the note.

When has Mewtwo crushed metal with Psychic?

Also going to put this here.

I'll do my top 30 for the tier list.

 

[Munomario777]

When does it say that Pokeballs are made of metal? Even so, they seem to crush like soda cans, which isn't really much of a feat.

 

[Nerdicon]

Then how did Kirby get inside if it's completely closed in?

Through one of those magic star doors that work more like portals than actual doors.

Anyway I see that people have been posting their own lists, I haven't because I can't really settle on an order in the top 3 but here it is in my honest opinion. Just keep in mind that the top three are in no particular order.

S Tier
-Pretty quick, can transform into Super Sonic to drastically increase his durability. Not to mention teleportation and wisp powers for variety
-8 inch tall, 15 pound powerhouse! Numerous abilities that synergize well with the Warp Star to deliver light speed destruction! Has several invincibility options
-Unreal durability, great mobility, and a varied and powerful arsenal. Not to mention her incredible strength or her overpowered gunship

A Tier
-Completely invulnerable to non-holy weaponry, not to mention he is surprisingly agile, has dark magic for days, is skilled with a sword (or two) and can warp. He can also become invincible in darkness, so can we get a read on how well lit the arena is?
-Very fragile but can create lots of black holes very quickly, getting them in to position is another story though. She has decent defense in form of her forcefield.
-Composite Link has 3 days of invincibility. 3 DAYS! Not to mention excellent marksmanship and swordplay. He also dabbles in magic.
-Ether manipulation. That is all. The reason he doesn't get any higher is that he doesn't really have any reliable defenses and he's not that quick.
- They have almost the exact same abilities (Dark Pit doesn't get either of the sacred treasures) and those abilities include a huge arsenal of specialized weapons to take down foes.
-Fast enough to fly around the galaxy, and powerful for the puffball he is. His sword can generate powerful sword beams, he has a form of teleportation, and he has mild control over elemental forces.
-The so called goddess of light has a wide range of powers (including the powerful Mega Laser) as well as some attacks of her own. They're pretty limited though.
-Has OK telekinetic abilities and a wide range of assorted attacks including a teleport he can use 32 times and the powerful Psystrike.

B Tier
- A giant arsenal of assorted weapons...that's about it.
-Master of practically all forms of combat, most notably his powerful magic such as Aversa's Night or Thoron
-Pretty limited set of moves but is powerful where it counts, PK Rockin' Ω in particular is incredibly powerful
-OK all around, relies heavily on equipment and power-ups to do damage
-An above average swordsman with invulnerability to all direct non-manakete (dragon) attacks

Bam that covers everyone from S-tier to B tier

 

[Munomario777]

Through one of those magic star doors that work more like portals than actual doors.

And which the Warp Star could also travel through.

 

[Crystanium]

@ Munomario777 I was wondering if you knew where the notion of Sonic's super form increasing his abilities by 1,000% came from.

Also, about the arwing's maximum speed, that has no citation, so I'm not sure where Mach 4.2 came from. This will affect the tier list I'm going to provide. When I post my tier list, I'll ignore the fact that the Star Fox characters and Captain Falcon are using vehicles.

 

[Munomario777]

@ Munomario777 I was wondering if you knew where the notion of Sonic's super form increasing his abilities by 1,000% came from.

I'm not sure where they're getting that from either. His abilities are greatly increased, but I don't remember hearing that specific number anywhere.

 

[Crystanium]

I'm not sure where they're getting that from either. His abilities are greatly increased, but I don't remember hearing that specific number anywhere.

Then that'll be ignored until a source can be found.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

When does it say that Pokeballs are made of metal? Even so, they seem to crush like soda cans, which isn't really much of a feat.

What do you think they're made of? Plastic? They open just like metal clips on coin pouches, and there's also metal parts involved to generate the energy that Pokémon turn into. As for the soda can, that only shows Mewtwo can crush things very easily.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

The strongest would likely be between Mewtwo, Ganon and Sonic. Who said that Mewtwo would actually have to kill Ganon? He has the capability of making him imobile, for example, he could teleport him to space where ganon would immediately freeze.

I'm not sure how Mewtwo locks on to a target, but assuming he's able to use his powers on Sonic- Sonic would lose no matter if he was Super Sonic or not.

Ganondorf has his own dark magic. He can make Mewtwo immobile, and can posses Mewtwo and also mind control Mewtwo.

 

[Crystanium]

Ganondorf has his own dark magic. He can make Mewtwo immobile, and can posses Mewtwo and also mind control Mewtwo.

Hey! Do you remember me? I was in the thread you made concerning who was canonically the strongest! It's been a long time!