"Whoops Not a Time Flower, Just YouTube." Lucario Video Thread

[Croi]

Snaring Aura Sphere is such a powerful tool, especially against a guy without a lot of range like Ganondorf. In fact, I only switched off it against Raziek the last match because I thought the switch would catch him off guard, and lo and behold, it at least took his second stock.

I absolutely knew the Ganoncide was a risk; I had a pretty confident feel on my opponent and didn't mind letting him have it. But that second match, after his second usmash kill, had me a little shaken. Ganon's pivot ftilt is a godlike spacing tool, too, and that caught me once or twice.

 

[Rysir]

Finally stopped being lazy and did at least some recording, Im no tourney goer due to that being out of my reach atm but here is what I got:
From not too long after launch day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdT3sBc1iA&list=UU0yfSFtqACpSefzsZUR9lnA

And something a bit more recent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08S1g6ceSz8&index=1&list=UU0yfSFtqACpSefzsZUR9lnA

I really need to save some more replays.

 

[Ryusuta]

I don't

Who wants to watch me beat up a Robin and a Ganondorf?

ON THE WEE YOU VERSION???

I must be ultra used to the 3DS because the character textures look really odd to me somehow. XD

Also, just an observation... I might be wrong, but it doesn't seem like you get a whole lot of mileage out of the slow Aura Sphere, particularly against Robin. I see that you use it for space control and to get them to take certain routes when coming back to the stage, but I almost feel like having the default version might work a little better for you.

But I fully acknowledge I am not you, nor was I in the grand finals of that sort of tournament like you were; and as such I could very easily be wrong. Either way, these were exciting and fun videos to watch. Thank you!

 

[Croi]

You're right, it's pretty MU dependent. It might be best against characters that are really mobile and want lots of space to run around in. Robin is pretty slow and doesn't mind controlling just the area around her, so default AS might be better against her and other slow characters like Ganondorf.

That said, Robin might be a unique case because I can't really see how Snaring AS would be a worse option against characters like DK or Bowser. The biggest differences between Robin and big, slow heavies is that Robin has a much more vertical recovery, while Bowser works by hitting the area around the ledge as he recovers and requires that space to be free, which works against him if there's an intangible, slow-moving, gravitational spirit bomb in his way.

This requires more experimenting, of course.

 

[Ryusuta]

Who wants to watch me beat up a Robin and a Ganondorf?

ON THE WEE YOU VERSION???

I must be ultra used to the 3DS because the character textures look really odd to me somehow. XD

You're right, it's pretty MU dependent. It might be best against characters that are really mobile and want lots of space to run around in. Robin is pretty slow and doesn't mind controlling just the area around her, so default AS might be better against her and other slow characters like Ganondorf.

That said, Robin might be a unique case because I can't really see how Snaring AS would be a worse option against characters like DK or Bowser. The biggest differences between Robin and big, slow heavies is that Robin has a much more vertical recovery, while Bowser works by hitting the area around the ledge as he recovers and requires that space to be free, which works against him if there's an intangible, slow-moving, gravitational spirit bomb in his way.

This requires more experimenting, of course.

Well said. I think you did a commendable job and I'm so excited to see more!

 

[Jaxas]

You're right, it's pretty MU dependent. It might be best against characters that are really mobile and want lots of space to run around in. Robin is pretty slow and doesn't mind controlling just the area around her, so default AS might be better against her and other slow characters like Ganondorf.

That said, Robin might be a unique case because I can't really see how Snaring AS would be a worse option against characters like DK or Bowser. The biggest differences between Robin and big, slow heavies is that Robin has a much more vertical recovery, while Bowser works by hitting the area around the ledge as he recovers and requires that space to be free, which works against him if there's an intangible, slow-moving, gravitational spirit bomb in his way.

This requires more experimenting, of course.

I'm definitely going to have to mess around with SnaringAS a lot more, it looks really handy. Who would you say it's best against, if it's not super amazing VS Robin?
Speaking of Ganon, just as a heads up you can tech the SideB now, unlike Brawl.

 

[Croi]

I'm definitely going to have to mess around with SnaringAS a lot more, it looks really handy. Who would you say it's best against, if it's not super amazing VS Robin?
Speaking of Ganon, just as a heads up you can tech the SideB now, unlike Brawl.

I know, the timing is just hard. I'm too used to the timing from Project: M and it's much tighter than that in Smash 4.

Snaring AS is a great tool because it's just so powerful at pressuring. As soon as you throw it out, you own whatever it is the sphere is next to, because if they try to approach it at all, they'll get sucked right in. On Battlefield, you can throw one above or below a platform (or even right through it if you're MLG enough) and your opponent will be forced to take the opposite option, where you will be waiting. If they're on the ledge, they can't get up from it because (depending on the size of the sphere) they'll just get sucked right back in. Not to mention it hits just as hard as a regular AS.

The thing with it is, though, is that it's pretty easy to figure out. It didn't work as well as I'd have liked against Raziek because he's had enough experience to know how to get around it. You have a ton of downtime after you launch it, so if you miss or they read it, you're going to get punished hard (see: last stock on Halberd). It's also a wide open target for any character with a reflector; one of my locals plays Mario and he has no trouble getting around it. And of course Rosalina can just make it vanish with her own downB.

Who it's best against is kind of a tough answer, but I've seen the most success with it against Diddy Kong. Like I said, any character that wants to move around quickly will want a lot of space to do so, and as soon as you fire an SAS, you severely limit their options. I'm currently 100-0 with my local Sheik and SAS is no slouch in the MU.

What I'd suggest is open the set with SAS, and once it stops working, switch back to regular AS like I did. You lose a pretty significant pressuring tool, but you gain a great spacing one in exchange, and the sudden lack of cooldown will feel like you're the best character in the universe.

 

[RiverDB]

Hey all, i've been picking up Lucario to deal with Sheik and really started taking a liking of him.
Right now the games i played in tournament are not on youtube yet, but here's the stream archive link: http://www.twitch.tv/playersdudimanchetv/b/588036168

Starting 3:04:40 i get to play 4 sets, first one being vs Samus game 1, but a charizard ditto game 2, the other 3 vs different sheiks starting 3:24:30. Any advice or support would be nice, though not required since i could probably learn a lot by myself aswell.

 

[Pentao]

Not sure if posted already, but here's a vid of a semi-finals from Japan of a Lucario vs. Diddy player.

http://youtu.be/XDSUOyLRPQQ?t=2m48s : Syogo (Diddy) Vs. Gomamugita (Lucario)

Note the use of Lucario doing a lot of aerial B-reverses with Aura Sphere to alter his momentum and grab Diddy off guard. He also does a ton of Aura Sphere -> Shield Grabs. This Lucario has generally good movement from what I can tell.

 

[SmashRacer]

A Pokemon Battle Royale on the Wii U Version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boUgqfX8uqM&

 

[Pentao]

The thing with it is, though, is that it's pretty easy to figure out. It didn't work as well as I'd have liked against Raziek because he's had enough experience to know how to get around it.

While I'd ultimately agree that you did better when you changed back to standard Aura Sphere, I felt like you definitely put in work with Snaring against Robin on Windy Hill Zone. It was easy to see that tossing them forced Robin to Elwind early, allowing you to pursue with up-air and other edge guarding techniques. Seeing you use it to cover your recovery by shooting it at the very tip of the ledge was also a treat.

I tried Snaring Aura Sphere out the other day, and I got wrecked at any point I tried to use it as a spacing tool. I need more practice with it if it's ever going to become an option in my Lucario's arsenal.

That said, it seems that's the only custom you used. The alternate double teams and extremespeed not suit your fancy? I understand not using the alternate force palms because they're both really laggy.

 

[Croi]

I'd like Advancing Force Palm if it got more bang for my buck. Especially against characters with reflectors, where even if the flame got reflected, the punishment would be so miniscule that it wouldn't really matter. But whiffing the grab just leaves me too open and landing it doesn't offer enough oomph, so it's not a good trade imo. Long Distance FP doesn't even offer the protection against reflectors, and default is long-distance enough for me anyway.

Same deal with Ride The Wind; my recovery is good enough, so I don't need to trade the anti-edgeguarding hitbox for more distance and control. I admittedly haven't done much testing with the other ES, the one with the constant hitbox; if you're coming from Brawl and you think Lucario's recovery is good enough in that, then this one might be for you. But I didn't main Lucario in Brawl and his crazy good recovery is one of his most attractive features for me, so it's not all that appealing.

The one-inch punch counter would be a pretty good fake out, and if you're not very confident in your ability to read and react to hits to use his regular Double Team then it might be a good alternative, but Double Team has everything: nigh-unpunishable frames (on activation); it hits incredibly hard; it's an anti-anti-edgeguard (provided it lands); it's safe on block because you're launching so far so quickly; you can choose which direction to launch... it's a very powerful tool and you'll want to learn how to land it. Don't bother at all with Stunning Double Team.

Piercing Aura Sphere might be good against characters with reflectors because the punishment for getting reflected isn't all that bad. It might also be a good alternative against Rosalina since it'll chop right through Luma. Otherwise, don't bother.

 

[Croi]

More Wii U goodness:

http://youtu.be/s3P9cUmyt_Q This one got pretty hairy, but Lucario clutched it out because he's THE BEST CHARACTER. Especially the second kill on the fourth match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktv2rlgT65U&index=12 That last kill wasn't GM171 being indecisive - Snaring Aura Sphere's gravitation pulled him hard enough to ruin his recovery but not hard enough to actually hit him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfWkjGn_Iww - Just a 3 v 3. I was experimenting with a "preemptive Anubis" strategy by tossing two of my stocks right off the bat. I don't think it's worth, but it's pretty fun hearing my AS make the fully charged noise at 50%.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

More Wii U goodness:

http://youtu.be/s3P9cUmyt_Q This one got pretty hairy, but Lucario clutched it out because he's THE BEST CHARACTER. Especially the second kill on the fourth match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktv2rlgT65U&index=12 That last kill wasn't GM171 being indecisive - Snaring Aura Sphere's gravitation pulled him hard enough to ruin his recovery but not hard enough to actually hit him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfWkjGn_Iww - Just a 3 v 3. I was experimenting with a "preemptive Anubis" strategy by tossing two of my stocks right off the bat. I don't think it's worth, but it's pretty fun hearing my AS make the fully charged noise at 50%.

Good stuff, Croi.

The Wii U's Extreme Speed landing lag is a lot less than what it is on the 3DS...

 

[RT]

It's possible his vids were before the day-one patch. The landing lag is the same as 3DS.

 

[Croi]

That's correct. This was version 1.0.0; the day 1 patch made it 1.0.1.

 

[RT]

Maybe a notation is needed for older vids in the thread? Just so people aren't confused.

 

[hichez50]

http://www.twitch.tv/gbdojo/b/591737021

I got third at a GA Wiiu local this weekend. I was hoping to get some advice. I find that lucario's neutral game is pretty bad. Anytips.

The match I am asking for advice on starts a ~1:37:45 It is Megaman vs. Lucario. I am the lucario player.

Any comments are appreciated.

 

[Space thing]

http://www.twitch.tv/gbdojo/b/591737021

I got third at a GA Wiiu local this weekend. I was hoping to get some advice. I find that lucario's neutral game is pretty bad. Anytips.

The match I am asking for advice on starts a ~1:37:45 It is Megaman vs. Lucario. I am the lucario player.

Any comments are appreciated.

That Megaman played really well and it's not easy to get by that wall of projectiles, but, honestly, it mainly looks like you need to work on your movement. In game 1, during neutral game, it looked like you were either just standing around or blatantly just coming straight at him, all of which got you punished hard. You can't just run into a wall of projectiles and hope that things are going to turn out well. You need to mix up approaches and try to maneuver through his projectiles using safe zones and by just backing off sometimes to bait punishable moves. And don't try to attack so much unless he's being aggressive. It sometimes just leaves you open and punishable.

The first half of game 2 was better. You did some of what I mentioned above, though it was a little rough. It seemed the Megaman was just out playing you in footsies. Honestly, watch how he was moving around in your games and try to do the same/similar thing. He waved in and out, baited moves and rarely committed unless he was going for a read. That stuff works with all/most characters to some degree, including Lucario.

I haven't looked at game 3 that closely yet.

I've only played the 3ds version so take what I say in stride I guess.

 

[DD_]

http://www.twitch.tv/gbdojo/b/591737021

I got third at a GA Wiiu local this weekend. I was hoping to get some advice. I find that lucario's neutral game is pretty bad. Anytips.

The match I am asking for advice on starts a ~1:37:45 It is Megaman vs. Lucario. I am the lucario player.

Any comments are appreciated.

I know you're asking about the megaman game, but I really liked and learnt a lot from your later match against Rosalina.

I think against megaman we're going to struggle a little bit however if you watch your buttons and utlisie our air control more you'll get more oppurtunites to get in his grill.

 

[hichez50]

I had no expirence fighting a quality Rosalina player, and that was my first time playing him so I just took it more on surface level. I have plenty of ideas I want to test just haven't had the MU exprience to test them.

Megaman on the other hand is confusing. I beat the guy in friendlies on the 3DS version a couple of weeks ago, but he changed up his strategy and it led to a 3-0 victory for him.

 

[megamain]

Here's a video of a tournament match. This was loser's finals and it's my Robin against this Lucario. The best Lucario I've ever played on the 3DS.

Robin vs Lucario: http://youtu.be/S_T7drZ6nL0

 

[King Funk]

Same deal with Ride The Wind; my recovery is good enough, so I don't need to trade the anti-edgeguarding hitbox for more distance and control.

I disagree. I think the benefits from RTW are far too big to ignore. With regular ES you're generally forced to aim for the edge, make a diagonal approach onstage from over the edge OR crashland at around 90 degrees to avoid the massive landing lag. This makes for very predictable angles that's easy to edgeguard, especially considering how small the hitbox on ES is. RTW gives a crazy amount of mixup potential (straight, half circle, 3/4 circle, under the stage, etc.). Against a lot of characters you often get far enough onto the stage that they can't punish you if they take the edge. And best of all, it wasn't heavily nerfed in landing lag like regular ES was.

Why settle for "good enough" when you can have "better"?

 

[Croi]

I disagree. I think the benefits from RTW are far too big to ignore. With regular ES you're generally forced to aim for the edge, make a diagonal approach onstage from over the edge OR crashland at around 90 degrees to avoid the massive landing lag. This makes for very predictable angles that's easy to edgeguard, especially considering how small the hitbox on ES is. RTW gives a crazy amount of mixup potential (straight, half circle, 3/4 circle, under the stage, etc.). Against a lot of characters you often get far enough onto the stage that they can't punish you if they take the edge. And best of all, it wasn't heavily nerfed in landing lag like regular ES was.

Why settle for "good enough" when you can have "better"?

You might be right. Since the nerf I've been too afraid to try anything other than go straight for the ledge, and I feel it's hindered me fairly significantly when it comes to recovering. I don't like how slow RTW is, but I'll give it a second look.

Anyway! I was at a small tournament with a very generous stagelist last Saturday, and all the uploads finally went through. I made it to Grand Finals Winners Side when my opponent had to leave, and I won by default. Pretty crazy stuff!

http://youtu.be/-FbYvq2MMig This guy always makes me nervous when I fight him. He was kind of green with Brawl and although he was good in PM he was pretty predictable. It looks like he's been working on his flaws and while I couldn't be happier, I also try to avoid him in tourney if I can.
http://youtu.be/XyUtmeqIorY Every match I have with this guy nearly goes to time. It was an unfortunate problem we had in Brawl, and with both of us using camp-heavy characters, it looks like it's going to keep happening. I beat him 2-0 here but both matches were 8-minute long nailbiters. He seems pretty convinced that Lucario is going to get more nerfs in the near future.
http://youtu.be/F2glOjNzsWo My Winner's Finals match, and the guy that bailed on Grand Finals. A full 3-2 set, telling the harrowing back-and-forth tale of the eternal struggle between light and dark, black and white, good and evil, complete with an M. Night Shyamalan twist at the very end. The Diddy MU isn't too bad, but maybe I'm just too much of a country bumpkin compared to some of the bigger scenes.

Some doubles matches!

http://youtu.be/BN4B_oDz3uU Vs.
http://youtu.be/yjS5_8tlGN4 Vs.
http://youtu.be/8SewegRLixM Vs
http://youtu.be/EWvTwxlJw_8 Vs

If you watch only one, make it the last one. A good Shulk can be one of your most versatile, and therefore your scariest, opponents. It got pretty hairy in the second match but we managed to clutch it out in the third (thanks in part to a pretty crucial team kill towards the end.)

Some triples matches!

http://youtu.be/YGi4mI2fZv0
http://youtu.be/H_wNNY1ALOU

It turns out, Villager might be the best doubles character in the game. A high-aura Lucario using Snaring Aura Sphere plus a competent Villager plucking it from the air and throwing it for twice the damage and knockback... he's a pretty scary axe murderer. We didn't really support our third guy very much and that nearly gets us in the second video, but two full-strength ASs was more than enough to win it for us.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

This is one of the best players ive seen so far keep in mind its 3ds and the unupdated version but I like the play style with those FP kills, Skip to 7:30, ignore the space between the www and .youtube it wont let me post links since im new

www .youtube.com/watch?v=MfOggHNPHQk

 

[Steam]

won another tourney with lucario last night

matches with lucario:

WR2 vs , - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NbNChZQ5oA
WF vs , - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8kAFCRX-MU
GF vs , - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrfOg4FJvVw

 

[Croi]

Why is Lucina so hard.

I used to body this guy on the 3DS version but Lucina got so magnificently buffed in the Wii U version that I just can't touch him anymore. And he doesn't even play competitively, which is frustrating and depressing.

e: that is me under a different name, fyi

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Why is Lucina so hard.

I used to body this guy on the 3DS version but Lucina got so magnificently buffed in the Wii U version that I just can't touch him anymore. And he doesn't even play competitively, which is frustrating and depressing.

e: that is me under a different name, fyi

Lucina is still bad. I tried dual maining Lucy and Luke, but she's eh.

Lucina is great at punishing laggy attacks. If you want a Lucina to back off from air pressure hit her with an FTilt. Battlefield is absolutely terrible for us against Marth/Lucina because they can punish every landing, so you should avoid taking one there.

Our pivot grab range is larger than hers.

Remember she can only do one FAir from a shorthop, so you can time your Aura Spheres (charged or baby).

Like any other character though. If you pressure her shield a bit you can kinda go ham.

 

[Croi]

I know Battlefield doesn't really work in our favour, but this guy really loves to wavebounce Shield Breaker and I've been having a hard time predicting it, so I took him there to try and stunt that. It was more of a player pick than a character pick.

I haven't been using enough ftilt in general. I have a hard time actually getting it out and I get fsmash instead - it might be a Pro controller thing (I don't have an adapter). Been thinking of switching smash stick to tilt stick. I've been using less utilt for the same reason and it's just a bad idea to not use my best move in general.

 

[Steam]

Why is Lucina so hard.

I used to body this guy on the 3DS version but Lucina got so magnificently buffed in the Wii U version that I just can't touch him anymore. And he doesn't even play competitively, which is frustrating and depressing.

e: that is me under a different name, fyi

just watching the first game, first stock I've counted 3 times you could have sideB grabbed lucina for the kill but did something else instead. also wtf is wrong with lucina's upsmash hitbox, that's busted as hell.

make that 4 times

apparently lucina fsmash always hits our upB before we spot the ledge? that's duuuuuuuuumb.

you just need to make the kill opportunities count. you Fthrow/Bthrow'd off the stage way too much. Since we can't really go after her recovery you might as well put her above you.

 

[Rysir]

Good god, probably because I do not see many Lucina but it looks like that freaking up smash is at the width of her feet instead of being anywhere related to her sword. That is the most damn dumb upsmash I ever seen its pretty much a contact range of a box around her whole body.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

just watching the first game, first stock I've counted 3 times you could have sideB grabbed lucina for the kill but did something else instead. also wtf is wrong with lucina's upsmash hitbox, that's busted as hell.

make that 4 times

apparently lucina fsmash always hits our upB before we spot the ledge? that's duuuuuuuuumb.

you just need to make the kill opportunities count. you Fthrow/Bthrow'd off the stage way too much. Since we can't really go after her recovery you might as well put her above you.

Recover from below at a 90 degree angle to the ledge.

Good god, probably because I do not see many Lucina but it looks like that freaking up smash is at the width of her feet instead of being anywhere related to her sword. That is the most damn dumb upsmash I ever seen its pretty much a contact range of a box around her whole body.

You can sorta DI away from the second hit. Very hard though. We have similar hitboxes on our Up Smash.

Sorta offtopic, but I think our USmash has a lot of untapped potential despite being our most damaging move (42% fully charged fresh at same stock, both hits, max Aura).

 

[Pentao]

I think our Up-Smash is pretty decent, considering how laggy most of our moves are. I usually use it when mixing up my landing-chases. I usually use up-air chases, so empty jump -> fast fall -> dash up smash is something I do when I want to mix it up to secure some kills.

It's also solid at popping people who try to jump over me when I'm edge guarding them, especially if there's a platform above me (ie Battlefield).

 

[Jaxas]

Not gonna lie, but while Lucina may be difficult (Her whole moveset's range > ours, excluding FP and AS of course) Marth is hell.
All that range, safer on shield (even non-tipped), and kills at 40-60% with tippers?

Not fun.

 

[Timbers]

Why is Lucina so hard.

usmash may be the only thing that Lucina has that is better than Marth's, and this guy right here is really feelin' it lol

 

[Browny]

Junebug won Xanadu today, like 72 entrants or something all Lucario.

The twitch chat was hilarious so many whingers. He killed sonic at 51% with bair to take a set, then did it again to sheik at low % in grand finals.
https://gfycat.com/DetailedAdolescentBirdofparadise

Of course no one called lucario broken when junebug got 2 stocked like, 3 times on stream. durrrr

-edit

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2pjp15/rage_aura_lucario_sx_121614/

LOL WHAT SPASTICS

 

[Steam]

I won another local with pretty much all lucario.

also I took the bait

 

[Rysir]

Most likely not a new thing but, I found that up smash is probably the safest and maybe overall best move to use against a Greninja's shadow sneak.

Due to the crouched status when charging up smash and that shadow sneak has not only a minimum distance but also strikes at lucario's chest height it leaves Greninja open to get hit full force by an up smash seemingly at any point of shadow sneak but especially just after he reappears.

The final blow of my video is what I mean.

 

[Croi]

Your hitbox came out before his did. Nothing more.

 

[Rysir]

Oh well, time to drop the idea then.