Nemiak temp
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2013
- Messages
- 178
SORRY GUYS. #argumentativeprickfornoreason
#illprobablydoitagaintho
#ifitwerentforthosemedlingmods
#illprobablydoitagaintho
#ifitwerentforthosemedlingmods
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GUESS I'VE GOT BRAIN PROBLEMS THENmarth sucks vs fox in this game
hey, i remember when i was a moderator. if i thought someone was stupid, i just banned them for being an adbot. did you ever do that when you were a mod? also i really hate that guy.Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never stated you were bad, I stated that the matchup is only in Bowser's favor at low levels of play, which obviously isn't relevant to the topic at hand, or any important topic for that matter. Sorry if you came to your conclusions through personal experience as a Fox player, but I had no way of knowing that.
try smash ballz broGiga bowser is a reliable fox counter.
noLucario
I'm curious why you think this. I know the stage list favors fox heavily in the match up in PM but do you think that has that great an effect on the match up?marth sucks vs fox in this game
yeah that pretty much nailed it. 10/10I'm curious why you think this. I know the stage list favors fox heavily in the match up in PM but do you think that has that great an effect on the match up?
I disagree with this post. I think that M2K's best character is Shiek, on account of her lending herself to his super rudimentary playstyle. That's actually really my problem with M2K, is how he plays. Not the stalling or the cheese, but his peerless focus of basics. It sounds weird to a lot of players because he's one of the best Smash players ever, but it makes a lot of sense to anyone who understands how growth as a player works in Smash. But since I'm working on a Smash basics guide right now and I don't want toWell think about it, m2k can pretty much bring the full potential of fox out. Armada, while not being able to do the same, is a lot closer than any other pit player, when it comes to reaching the full potential of the character. m2k has some experience in the MU and armada has the experience as well. I realize the level of experience does differ, but for Armada to preform so convincingly against m2ks fox, that has to say something about the MU.
Having chain grabs, gimps, reliable kill moves/setups, good normals(i think?), (etc) plus what was done in several matches at apex 2014, should show all the foxes out there, this MU isn't completely in our favor or at least not free, if anything, it could be inching in pits favor.
imo this MU should be 50:50 at the least
It could be like lordling said 55:45 pits favor
Then again, m2k and armada are so above us... meh
I love this, and have to say (though we've discussed it before in ways), using your comments about how people need to work on their punishment game, as a reference of a popular figure to get people to do it for their own benefit, capped with some elaboration or the basic logic behind how and why, has been one of the greatest tools towards helping people get better at Smash.You do underrate the fact that Fox aswell have a VERY good punishgame.
People overall don't punish hard enough.
The further the metagame progress the less of a weakness it is to be a "spacie that gets 0 to death at all times".
The neutral game is a fact for the most part, it's set in stone even if humans can get better, how good this chars are in the neutral. The punish game is just overall very bad level at. The further you get into the punishgame the more you will realize that the gap is way smaller than you most likley currently think
50:50 matchup in meleeI'm curious why you think this. I know the stage list favors fox heavily in the match up in PM but do you think that has that great an effect on the match up?
Yes. Remove Ivy. She gets bopped by Fox. She cannot deal with his pressure at all. DD past backair=kill.the only one i might take of my list is ivysaur
Except on WW/Yoshi'sBowser certainly doesn't even go even with Fox in 3.0
Talk in the MU thread?I know how this sounds but what about fox against Ike? I have only experience this twice (on netplay) but if I made one mistake it would be utilt ->utilt->(insert however many utilts necessary here) fsmash->dead. I secondary fox but I am still very familiar with him and do well against the characters that can juggle him (all of them lol) similar to this. When Ike can get an extremely powerful hit that's send you far offstage, and a giant disjointed sword to intercept your recovery, it seems a little difficult for fox.
Ok I will throw it in there too but it just seemed at this point that is sort of what this has turned into. I came here because it is titled "Who Wrecks Fox" and I was suggesting Ike. The only thing that comes from saying "Ike wrecks fox" is just people getting mad about me stating it as a fact which obviously doesn't help and doesn't go anywhere. That is why I made it into a question with some reasoning. But apparently that doesn't work either so let me rephrase: Ike wrecks fox wouldn't you guys say so? (Queue angry comments claiming my inexperience with fox and the metagame) But seriously can I get some insight?Talk in the MU thread?
I don't really think Fox struggles against Ike on paper, but I guess I can see how it would be a tough MU to play. Since you're Fox, getting hit once can easily lead to losing a stock, and it's pretty easy to get hit by Ike's hitboxes, since they're so big. He's not as slow as you think he would be, so it can be tough to figure out where his openings are and when to punish. And quickdraw is pure shenanigans. Still, you're faster, and if you can get in his face, he has like zero reversal options. But I could see how it would be a hard time.Ok I will throw it in there too but it just seemed at this point that is sort of what this has turned into. I came here because it is titled "Who Wrecks Fox" and I was suggesting Ike. The only thing that comes from saying "Ike wrecks fox" is just people getting mad about me stating it as a fact which obviously doesn't help and doesn't go anywhere. That is why I made it into a question with some reasoning. But apparently that doesn't work either so let me rephrase: Ike wrecks fox wouldn't you guys say so? (Queue angry comments claiming my inexperience with fox and the metagame) But seriously can I get some insight?
Why? I can't see why.marth sucks vs fox in this game
There's plenty of characters in PM that can kill Fox off of a touch and that he has a harder time killing. Simplest examples:That is a good point. I just don't see it seeing how dominant fox is in neutral. So a character needs a solid punish game on him so when they win neutral it can hurt. There are plenty of character like that in PM of course which makes Fox have a more even playing field. But I still see him being so darn powerful in neutal, able to overrun anyone else and his tools are broad, varied and work on most characters.@ CyberZixx , with all due respect, i feel that your statement might be a bit closed minded. I mean thats pretty much what everyone says. they just take it from melee assume that fox is still on top. tier list wise, that can possibly be true, but to say that fox has no disadvantageous MUs in a carefully designed game streamlined for competitiveness and riddled with character buffs is a tad bold. Beyond that, I do have specific reasons why the characters ive listed can be even or possibly advantageous against him. you didnt really provide much evidence to anything though with your statement
I think Diddy vs Fox is pretty even. Fox can mess up Diddy's recovery bad, and Diddy beats Fox in neutral if Diddy has a banana, but Fox is so fast that Diddy cannot safely pull and obtain a banana without risk of getting hit. Fox's dash attack goes over grounded bananas, his reflector takes control of them, he gets more results out of a trip than Diddy does, and can slide with JC naner throws.Honestly, he has very few bad (If any) matchups, but your best bet is likely: Marth, Samus, Diddy, Meta Knight, Falco, Wolf, Mewtwo, and mayyyybe yoshi if a good yoshi player comes around who knows how to combo spacies i could see that being close to even
Ah.50:50 matchup in melee
In Melee, Marth gets FD in bo5 set
In PM, he doesn't.
In PM, there are 10 dreamlands.
all of fox's stuff is much easierWhy? I can't see why.
I think the matchup should be pretty similar to Melee, with maybe a couple extra points in Marth's favor.