I know, you have to chase their DI with your waveshine, but at some % they'll go too high, and you'll have to jump to get them again. I was wondering what that % is.
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Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.
- Thread starter DaShizWiz
- Start date
K.C. Cloud
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 750
If I had to take a guess (since I never really payed attention to it) I would say around 30-40ish.
falco_4_life
Smash Lord
nall i just did it and its about 50 to 55, but dat was with the comp. it may b different with real people.
luckily i was already practicing dis before u asked the question
luckily i was already practicing dis before u asked the question
meepxzero
Smash Master
hey shiz i got a question D; .....
Is it better to always do short hop aerials late such as dair/nair or does it not matter?
I didnt really like playin falco b4 because people would shield grab me easily when i did dair/nair real early. Im just wondering if its cuz my l-canceling sucks lol or you have to do them late so u dont get shield grabbed. because id prefer to do them early on the short hop just so i have prority over watever move they do if its an l-canceling issue for me.
Is it better to always do short hop aerials late such as dair/nair or does it not matter?
I didnt really like playin falco b4 because people would shield grab me easily when i did dair/nair real early. Im just wondering if its cuz my l-canceling sucks lol or you have to do them late so u dont get shield grabbed. because id prefer to do them early on the short hop just so i have prority over watever move they do if its an l-canceling issue for me.
K.C. Cloud
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 750
It might be your L-canceling, usually moves are thrown out early if they stick out for a while, they still have their amount of priority. You might also need to work on your spacing too, usually the move you throw you can judge the distance and space yourself properly against most characters to avoid a grab.
AxemRanger
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2006
- Messages
- 8
Alright, a little update on my situation. I've kind of gotten used to his new playstyle (dodges, etc), so I'm doing a lot better. The SH Dairs on the ledge are causing a lot less trouble, and I'm doing it to him as well. I'm still having trouble though with the SH Bairs though. It seems like every time I go for the grab he goes through my shield, I end up grabbing thin air, and he shines me. Or if I try to attack him with a SH Dair or Nair he just ends up hitting me. So far all I've got is to SHL him, which works sometimes, or just avoid. I'd like to be able to stop it all together though.
I'd like some advice on throws. Right now I mostly do Up Throws, as it seems like I can usually hit him with another Arial or shine. Sometimes I can move the shine into a pretty good combo, do you think I should mostly try for that or go with the guaranteed more damage of an Arial? Are there other throws I should try. He's able to tech away from my down throw, so that doesn't come out too often. And if I grab him near an edge, should I generally throw him out or go for an Up throw + arial?
I've also been trying to shine a lot more than I have been, and it's working well. I get into some good long Shine to Dair combos (is that a proper pillar, or is that something else?), but I'd like to do it more. What I really want is the ability to do those Rush at him > SH Dair > Shine > etc combos. Is the waveshine an essential part of this? As it is he mostly grabs my Dair, or, if I go through his shield, just does a SH Bair and hits me. How do I hit him with the shine, wear down his shield, etc? Is this a failed L-Cancel problem?
Oh, another thing: sometimes he rushes up to me and imediately charges an Up Smash, Down Smash, or ducks. Then when I go to grab or attack he lets loose with the smash / shine and hits me. The same thing when he sees me rushing at him: he charges an Up Smash that hits me in the middle of my SH Nair or dash attack. What should I do in this situation?
Thanks a lot for the help.
I'd like some advice on throws. Right now I mostly do Up Throws, as it seems like I can usually hit him with another Arial or shine. Sometimes I can move the shine into a pretty good combo, do you think I should mostly try for that or go with the guaranteed more damage of an Arial? Are there other throws I should try. He's able to tech away from my down throw, so that doesn't come out too often. And if I grab him near an edge, should I generally throw him out or go for an Up throw + arial?
I've also been trying to shine a lot more than I have been, and it's working well. I get into some good long Shine to Dair combos (is that a proper pillar, or is that something else?), but I'd like to do it more. What I really want is the ability to do those Rush at him > SH Dair > Shine > etc combos. Is the waveshine an essential part of this? As it is he mostly grabs my Dair, or, if I go through his shield, just does a SH Bair and hits me. How do I hit him with the shine, wear down his shield, etc? Is this a failed L-Cancel problem?
Oh, another thing: sometimes he rushes up to me and imediately charges an Up Smash, Down Smash, or ducks. Then when I go to grab or attack he lets loose with the smash / shine and hits me. The same thing when he sees me rushing at him: he charges an Up Smash that hits me in the middle of my SH Nair or dash attack. What should I do in this situation?
Thanks a lot for the help.
For the throws, you can tech chase with the down throw, or up throw into shine->aerial or just a plain aerial, but the shine to aerial doesn't work at higher percentages. If you choose to tech chase him, just SHL toward the side he is rolling to stun him, and then go in with a grab. Also, if you don't think he will tech, you can go down throw to Dsmash. If he DIs poorly, you can back throw into a Fsmash, I think... If he's near an edge when you grab him, you can go for an easy edgeguard, or stick with the other choices.
If you really want to combo him horrendously, it's essential to learn waveshining. A standard combo would be something like Dair-Shine-Waveshine-Dair-Shine-Waveshine-Nair. If you don't waveshine, he may be able to tech out of your combo after the Dair. Pillaring is supposedly the term for SHFFLed Dair-Shines into a shield in order to try and break it.
With the approaches, you just have to be able to trick him into exposing himself, and then taking advantage. Instead of just rushing in, you can SHL forward, then dash dance when you're pretty close, so a shield grab would miss. If he starts to charge a Usmash, space yourself out of the way and prepare to smack him. This is just reading your opponent better, and being able to trick him.
I'm not quite sure what the problem with the Bairs, is he essentially pillaring you with it? I would try to space it, and watch where he would land after each Bair, and attack back accordingly.
If you really want to combo him horrendously, it's essential to learn waveshining. A standard combo would be something like Dair-Shine-Waveshine-Dair-Shine-Waveshine-Nair. If you don't waveshine, he may be able to tech out of your combo after the Dair. Pillaring is supposedly the term for SHFFLed Dair-Shines into a shield in order to try and break it.
With the approaches, you just have to be able to trick him into exposing himself, and then taking advantage. Instead of just rushing in, you can SHL forward, then dash dance when you're pretty close, so a shield grab would miss. If he starts to charge a Usmash, space yourself out of the way and prepare to smack him. This is just reading your opponent better, and being able to trick him.
I'm not quite sure what the problem with the Bairs, is he essentially pillaring you with it? I would try to space it, and watch where he would land after each Bair, and attack back accordingly.
bornfidelity.com
Smash Master
if you're all about aerials on shield, its both, really. because you do the aerial early, you miss the LCancel, the shield kindof delays your falling speed. same reason you should try and hit the edge of the shield, not the middle, you'll get easier shieldgrabbed if you hit the middle of the shield. ideally, you'd start the dair on the shield very late and make it hit on the edge/bottom edge of the shield.
another advantage to starting the aerial late, is that they won't slide away as fast as otherwise. which is useful on luigi-types or light-shielding opponents.
(and do mind that in shffls its not when you do the aerial thats the most important, but when you do the fastfall - thats the crucial factor in a speedy game, if you ask me).
MasterGary
Smash Ace
my main advice to you would be to learn how to l-cancel and SHL properly. when you have those 2 basic skills on a lock , life becomes alot easier 
DaShizWiz
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 2,283
No, what meepxzero is asking is what should he do that is better to avoid getting shield grabbed. And quite frankly, i find it much better to do the moves late in the air(sooner towards the ground), and then L-cancel it and shine, there is no possible way to get shield grabbed if you do that.
And to avoid shield grabbing, I will aproach them with a shine if they're shielding, and then after the shine do a JC'ed grab.
Axemranger, terr13 basically answered your question.
And to avoid shield grabbing, I will aproach them with a shine if they're shielding, and then after the shine do a JC'ed grab.
Axemranger, terr13 basically answered your question.
MasterGary
Smash Ace
seems that whenever i try to give advice its wrong. and you come along and provdide some better advice.
but 1 thing that also works is to grab right after u land. if u l-canceld it right you can grab almost as soon as u touch the ground.
falco_4_life
Smash Lord
i never tried l-cancel to grab.
there u go u gave some good advice (unless it doesn't work n i end up getting beat)
there u go u gave some good advice (unless it doesn't work n i end up getting beat)
Linguini
Smash Master
Bird cannot fly.
Yet bird can do Kungfu.
This is Linguini's words of the day.
Yet bird can do Kungfu.
This is Linguini's words of the day.
1980
Smash Journeyman
festizzio
Smash Champion
You say you're good at falco dittos...any tips you can give me? I seem to have trouble with this match-up the most out of anyone.
Yoru
Smash Apprentice
Pwn, don't be pwned. It's like whoever gets the first laser off, gets the first devastating combo. If you get hit by a laser, side dodge when he comes in with a dair and shine quickly. Then you can combo him once again. Bairs kill a lot faster than you think against Falcos too.
Just my opinion...
MasterGary
Smash Ace
most falco will try to start off with the lazer so the can start owning u. so as soon as the macth start (if there not to close to u) shine to reflect his lazer and then start ur own lazers. and come in and start some shine combos.
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
Well I've thoroughly searched this thread and I didn't find the answer, so I'll just post it here...
What is the most efficient way to waveshine? Like what control stick/button combination? I can waveshine decently but I know it can improve. What I do is I shine, then I slide the control stick from down to diagonal down, WD with X/R, slide the control stick back to down, shine, repeat. Is there a better way to do this?
When I try to waveshine backwards with this technique, I almost always turn around in the shine and waveshine forward. This doesn't negatively affect my gameplay, but I would like to be able to waveshine backwards on command.
What is the most efficient way to waveshine? Like what control stick/button combination? I can waveshine decently but I know it can improve. What I do is I shine, then I slide the control stick from down to diagonal down, WD with X/R, slide the control stick back to down, shine, repeat. Is there a better way to do this?
When I try to waveshine backwards with this technique, I almost always turn around in the shine and waveshine forward. This doesn't negatively affect my gameplay, but I would like to be able to waveshine backwards on command.
Blunted_object10
Smash Master
How do you JC Shine so quickly so many times? just practice?
Linguini
Smash Master
Fox can go farther than bird.
Wait, WTF?
This has been Linguini's words of the day.
Wait, WTF?
This has been Linguini's words of the day.
1980
Smash Journeyman
lmfao some one help me im losing it.
bornfidelity.com
Smash Master
You shouldnt tilt the controlstick sidewards until you jump/start the wavedash, because otherwise you turn around in your shine.Well I've thoroughly searched this thread and I didn't find the answer, so I'll just post it here...
What is the most efficient way to waveshine? Like what control stick/button combination? I can waveshine decently but I know it can improve. What I do is I shine, then I slide the control stick from down to diagonal down, WD with X/R, slide the control stick back to down, shine, repeat. Is there a better way to do this?
When I try to waveshine backwards with this technique, I almost always turn around in the shine and waveshine forward. This doesn't negatively affect my gameplay, but I would like to be able to waveshine backwards on command.
SO to waveshine backwards, down+b, X, control stick to the side, R.
AND to turnaround in shine to wavedash forward, down+b, control stick to the side, X, R. See?
MasterGary
Smash Ace
there are some pretty experienced people here.
KeepSpeedN
Smash Ace
Ok I honestly can only waveshine backwards one way. What I do is Shine, then just push the control stick forward, and then backward, and then wavedash. So do a shine, push forward, then backward, and wavedash while pushing it backward. That is the way I do it which I nail it everytime. I know its weird but try it, it works.
This is DaShizWiz on KeepSpeedN's name by accident.
This is DaShizWiz on KeepSpeedN's name by accident.
Hey Im new to Falco.
-What should I start learning immediately off the bat?
-What's the most optimal way of learning JC shines and doing Pillars?
-Finally, since you know Fox pretty well, what's your way of doing short hops with Fox consistently?
-What should I start learning immediately off the bat?
-What's the most optimal way of learning JC shines and doing Pillars?
-Finally, since you know Fox pretty well, what's your way of doing short hops with Fox consistently?
Miharu
Smash Hero
You should probably learn SHL, proper l-cancelling into shine first. Then basic waveshine/shine combos after that, and pillaring interspersed in between. But JC shines should be one of the last things you learn, since you won't be able to use the tactic effectively if you don't have a solid foundation in the basics.
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
Hey thanks, works like a charm. In a million years I would've never thought of that.
And Sess, Hydro Kirby is right. SHL is a MUST. You really have to get comfortable with it and not side B. The last thing you want is to Phantasm off the stage on your last stock.
Also, learn to reverse SHL and learn how to get a laser exactly where you want it. I play Game & Watch a lot and when I duck, some Falco players can't hit me. A good Falco should be able to hit a ducking Game & Watch.
MasterGary
Smash Ace
i can shl but the height of them is not realy consistent. when i get them to go realy low i hav to slow them down.
tarheeljks
Smash Lord
you should not delay learning to JC your shines; it is absolutely necessary that you JC all of your shines whether via wavedashing or jumping. if you start doing it now, it will become instinctive. You need to have shl down pat b/f you move onto the more complicated tactics-- pillar combos are sweet but they are worthless if you can't get close.
MasterGary
Smash Ace
he was talking about JC'd repeated shines. any idiot can jc a shine. all u got to do is jump afetr u shine.
Nurok
Smash Lord
shiz, i can help answer some questions as well =)
Foom
Smash Cadet
How can you shine from a shield. Like when you are shielding, and some1 attacks you, how can you shine them right from your shield?
I hope you don't mind if I answer this. It is possible with both Falco and Fox. Falco leaves the ground in 6 frames. 1 frame = 1/60 of a second. Fox leaves the ground in 4 frames. Those 2 frames do make a difference however. To do it, jump cancel the shield, and on the 6th frame for Falco, (or very close to it) shine. If done correctly, you should shine. If you are late you will shine in the air, meaning you will have to double jump out of the shine. If done correctly you can combo or WD out of it. If done incorrectly there is still a chance you can combo out of it. With fox you can combo OR perform an infinite out of the shine.
Secks.
Smash Ace
Did anyone see that bombsoldier wanted to play Shiz? He posted a comment on Shiz's combo vid. Might be a fake. I'd still love to see PC Chris and Bombsoldier play and now I want to see Shiz and Bombsoldier play dittos.
It's obviously a fake. Bomsoldier is a 15 year old japanese kid.
MasterGary
Smash Ace
He's only 15 O_O?
MikeMan445
Smash Journeyman
He was 14 or 15 when he first hit the scene. He's older now.
Blunted_object10
Smash Master
anyone gonna answer my question from page 58?
MasterGary
Smash Ace
what was your question.