Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Intersting, except for the lack of Shiek in their, I play most of those characters.

For the real meat of the post. Other than practicing, do you have any tips to mastering Falco's obscure wavedash?

 

[Kashakunaki]

**** YEAH! Long live Game and Watch.

Anyways, no, I like that. Beating to your own Falco rythem, XD. Though, Smash is a rythmatic game in general. Also, what's wrong with practicing those techniques in training? The only reason I see to do a Melee is so I can use the C-Stick, which I only do Uairs for, which I still want a solid answer as to wether or not I should use C-Stick for all my aerials, some and the other control stick, or just Uairs. Also, I was practicing SHL today... that beat is hard to get ahold of.

 

[invertigo]

shiz your videos have excellent footage. but terrible sound.

 

[Abulize]

I suggest doing all aerials with the c-stick unless you're gonna do the ledgehop b-air and regrab the edge. For that I use Y and A almost at the same time. Shiz uses Z but it's all preference. Both work well. Just don't press A before jumping or... you die .

 

[Kashakunaki]

Haha, okay. I guess what I'll do is fiddle with the C-Stick and figure out of it is for me or not. Like you said then, the C-Stick is more of prefrence thing? Like jumping with X or Y?

Man, I practiced some pillaring today for the first time... for a newb like me, that takes a lot of concentration and is strainful. I can't imagine doing it in mid battle. Pillaring doesn't seem to hard to learn though, just hard to master, so I'm going to try and learn that one quickly. I also practiced short hop laser a good amount today. With my stand still SHL I'm getting a lot mroe shots out, but my timing is still wack and I **** the gun a lot. I do the SHL where you inch closer across the stage nearly flawlessly. I rarely phantasom or switch sides, but I do it kind of slowly. My dashing SHL is good... but... 80% of the time the control stick whip lashes and I flip around when I don't mean to. That happens quite a bit with my stand still SHL, too. Remmedies other than guiding the control stick because that just seems cumbersome. So, advice on that would help.

I'm slowly getting their guys! My waveshine is stilly crappy, but I'm doing better with shining once and following it up, even if it is just another shine.

Thanks again for all your help in advance. So far Falco is really fun and using him makes me feel pro B)

 

[DaShizWiz]

Lol thanks Invertigo

Kashakunaki, I think IMO you should use the C-stick for every aerial you do, it comes out much faster, and you need it more. Gotta leave now, school .

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

I seem to use the c-stick when on the ground, or when doing my drill kick for a spike kill. Otherwise I use the A-button for my aerials above the platform, and for pillaring.

 

[Binx]

So if you can jump cancle a shine before leaving the ground and keep your jump?

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

@ Binx: Yes.

Out of curiosity, If you can jump cancel shines pretty much perfectly, does Falco's shine genereate enough stun on a shielding opponent to break it without giving them a window to leave their shield state? This may have been answered elsewhere.

 

[mathos]

You can't jump cancel shine one frame after another. There is significant downtime in which you can't do anything. I'm pretty sure Falco always leaves the ground. The thing that makes it seem like you don't leave the ground is that you actually land again, thereby gaining your jump again. And no the shine cannot produce stun to stop your opponent from moving, shine stun is pathetic.

 

[linkmastersword]

so it's just like waveshining in place.

 

[Nurok]

Kashakunaki, I'm telling you, that you will find the SHB beat.
Its like Y(pause) down, b
just much faster.
Also, Most falcos use the Cstick because its faster to them, and it makes the falco in general faster.(well thats what I think)
You don't have to use it... But I suggest it. You'll see yourself doing everything better.
Also, once you get all the technical stuff down, I suggest learning the slide technique.
(sliding your thumg from y to b) thats how I do all my tech stuff.
but im gettting to far ahead of myself

 

[DaShizWiz]

Hey guys whats up, check this page out.

http://www.smashwiki.com/wiki/Professionals#America_5

 

[DaShizWiz]

Accident post.

 

[Ryan-K]

interesting

 

[Holy Ji]

So... can anyone help me out on wavedashing and waveshining? When I try to wavedash with Falco he just jumps, doesn't airdodge. I think I'm airdodging too soon...

also got a question about falco's uair. sometimes when i use it it doesn't have any knockback at all, but at other times it sends other players flying. why does this happen?

and, is there any projectile strong enough to break the shine?

 

[Pye]

Holy Ji:

Falco's wavedash is wierd. His jump takes 6 frames instead of 4. You have the same problem I do. If you learned to WD with another character first, you're just going to have to learn the new timing. Yes, you are simply airdodging too early.

As for the uair, thats because it acualy hits twice. The first hit has almost no knockback and only does 1-3%, while the second hit has all the attack's knockback and most of the damage. When theres no knockback, its because your momentum carries you past your opponent too fast for the second hit to land. Try to come from right beneith your opponent, which usualy guarantees you'll get the second hit in too.

As for breaking the shine, thats a good question...I've never seen it happen before. I have a friend who was talking about breaking the shine with a red shell...but I think he was refering to SSB64, not SSBM. You'll have to get someone else's word on this one.

 

[DaShizWiz]

Good job answering his questijon Pye.

 

[linkmastersword]

hahaha, the red shell and the shine is so funny. It happens in melee, and the shell damage doubles everytime it gets shined, so evenetually if you keep holding down b, the shell will be too powerful and you'll be screwed.

 

[mathos]

Shine doesn't double damage its multiplies it by 1.5. But I think its 8 hits of reflected shells but I could be mistaken.

 

[Pye]

Hey, I have a few Falco questions.

1) How do I know wether to longjump (for a shine combo) or SH (for a pillar) out of my shine? I shine cancel too fast to see wether he shields it or not...or do I? Am I suppost to watch for the shield and just have fast enough reflexes to use the right jump? Or am I suppost to shine when I know he'll shield it, and mindgame him into a pillar?

2) What do I do against characters who can upB out of their sheilds faster then I can shine? They shield the dair or nair, then upB right away (for example, Samus/Bowser). I have a friend who recently started doing this with Samus, and I can't approach anymore. A good example in this video. Falco's first few approaches are stopped in the same way my friend does it.

BTW, I think this should be sticked so that questions can be asked without making new threads (obviously, Shiz dosn't have to answer ALL of them, as the thread origionally intended )

 

[mathos]

With time you'll figure out whether you're going to be hitting them. Chances are if you miss the dair the shine won't hit them. But in case it does you can always start with a short hop and then use your second jump to reach them.

If they are proficient with their upB then there is nothing you can really do. Just make them feel unstable so that they won't be able to use their upB. Out of shield upB's own Falco.

 

[Aaron_Sketch]

I don't know if this has been asked before...

But every morning I go over to my friends' house to play Smash bros. Now I don't own the game myself, so I don't really practice, I can only improve by actually playing him. (I used to have the game, so we're pretty evenly matched in those terms)

Falco is my main, but now my friend is starting to pick up Falco as well, and he has the advantage of actually owning the game. So in a falco vs falco match, do you have any combos that can be utilised that don't need too much timing or anything? I can wavedash, shorthop, l-cancel, and basically just the regular stuff, whereas my friends has trouble wavedashing and l-cancelling but is great at chain-throwing and spamming. He also does not actually go onto the computer to read up on Smash Bros guides... he watches videos instead. My computer doesn't let me watch videos, something with the javascript. -_-

I don't know if all of this background information helps, I'm just trying to help specify which combos I'm looking for.

Basically, I need any kind of combos that would work against a decently skilled opponent. Sorry if I'm being too picky...

 

[invertigo]

i guarantee that if you look around the forums for like 5 minutes youll find more than you can handle

 

[Pye]

Yea, Aaron, next time you go to your friends house, ask to watch Shiz's joke combo vid (Falco **** or something like that). One of the lines in it is that Falco is better at ****** himself then any other character, which is partly true.

A fantastic combo that works from low-mid percents on Fox and other Falcos is just waveshines. Shine, WD forward, and wait for your opponent to fall. You can do this 2-3 times and your opponent can't escape because of the shine's really long stun time. At this point, he's probably DIing if he knows how, so shine ->WD -> WD -> dair -> shine works nicely. It'll take a little while to get used to, but it completely tears fastfallers apart. Well worth knowing if your friend is picking up Falco.

It's too bad I can't show you videos, because I'd be able to give you some visual examples. It's hard to explain without you having seen it before. If ever you get a computer that can watch vids, watch the Bombsoldier vs Jing matches on youtube (find the one on final destination). BS does some great anti-fastfaller shine combos there.

BTW, Thanks Mathos. I guess I'll have to try something new...like bait out his upB and punish from there...or spam more SHL to make him come to me.

 

[King Malice]

What should I do when the person DI away from the pillar? (Like, in front of you DI, otherwise I would just use the BAir.

 

[Truedge930]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1587041073557218947&hl=en

Hey Shiz, updated match of myself playing, my thread's still up in video discussion with the rest of the updates, but I think I'm getting the hang of what your saying, still need to practice shining in places where I'm rolling but overall I see some improvement in my own game.

 

[Holy Ji]

Thanks y'all...

 

[Kashakunaki]

Alright then, well, I don't think I'll be sliding because I use X to job, anyways. Plus, my controller isn't very greasy.

Thank you for all the information on aerials. I'll fiddle around with the C-Stick.

I keep flip neutral B's in the air when I don't mean to with the SHL. What should I do other than manually guide the stick back? Because that seem impractical.

 

[mathos]

Malice I'm assuming you mean a dair shine combo and really all you can do it either fsmash, laser, or watch them to see if they use their second jump and then from there you get a lot of options. There's no real definiate combo.

 

[h1roshi]

shiz...u better make it to the tourney at giga...i rele wanna friendly u...i didnt even get to play u at mlg...peace bro...and keep up the nastiness

-hiroshi

 

[DaShizWiz]

I'll try Hiroshi.

Others:

I'll try to answer all of your questions, for the person that needs help in Falco dittos, you need to try to Mindgame your shines, as in tricking them to fall into a shine so you can combo the crap out of them. A good level for this is Final D, today I will be posting a new vid in the 1v1 section of a falco ditto between me and Metal Doc, be sure to check it out it may be some help to you, just do what I do .

For the person that needs help with the Ub B thing out of shield, I advice that you spam the Samus with Lasers or Bowser or whatever, and when you get close try mindgaming your approach, don't always do a Nair or Dair to shine just run up to them, grab them, throw them up or forward or down, if down techchase them to a smash attack, if up jump up and do a sex kick(nair) if backwards, run away doing reverse lasers, if forwards throw them off of the edge. Just try to make your approaches pretty random, so he never knows what your trying to do , I hope this helps, cause I have a little bit of a problem with Samus.

Edit: Watch the Falco dittos on this thread or watch any of them lol I hope they help.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=1948339#post1948339

 

[ForestSage]

Ok, I feel like quite the noob for asking this, buttt I really want to get them down so:

Do any of you Falcos have tips for L canceling against shields every time? Especially when pilliaring (I can't :[ ) I think i've figured out that you need to fast fall after you hit with the dair on their shield. but I can't pull of a decent pilliar in a match.

For clarification purposes: You can do basically (some exceptions?) any aerial, fastfall and L cancel WITHOUT getting shieldgrabbed, correct?

Thanks much guys

 

[DaShizWiz]

ForestSage:

Yes, you want to do a Dair and then fastfall and l-cancel. But I play differently then most falcos, for me to L-cancel I Push the c-stick whatever direction first, and then I press down and L at the same time, thats the way I l-cancel. I think most people fastfall and then L-cancel, I push down and L at the same time.... me and my bro keepspeedn do that.

Guys, check these vids out, especially the Fox vs Falco and Falco Dittos!! I want some critique!!! On the page that the vids are on not this one please .

Heres the link:http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=91166

 

[booshk]

shiz, when i practise pillar with my friend he used falco but he was able to grab thru my pillar, he spammed r+a but i tried to ff as soon as possible.. u know why he could still grab?

 

[wuthefwasthat]

you may be missing your L-cancels

make sure you're hitting them... dair without L-cancel... and then with it and see if theres a difference

 

[booshk]

you may be missing your L-cancels

make sure you're hitting them... dair without L-cancel... and then with it and see if theres a difference

no i l cancelled. lol.

 

[DaShizWiz]

Its hard to grab falco after his L-cancel, but its possible. Just try to do it a little faster, if your doing it faster and he still grabs you, then he just has good timing.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Shiz, I'm having some trouble whipping my up-tilt out fast, I usully end up going into an up-smash. The situations vary, so it's hard to give examples. I know it's a tricky problem, but can you offer any advice?

 

[DaShizWiz]

TheKneeOfJustice, what you have to do is hold the directoin of the controller up before your attack ends.

Example: Say you just did a sex kick, after your move is completed while still in lag of not being able to move, put the controller up, and then do an uptilt, so don't wait so your able to move freely to do the uptilt, do it soon after the move you just did. This works if you do it correctly. But it takes practice, so don't get frustrated while doing this, this happened to me when I was trying to learn how to do uptilts.