Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[kidprecision]

Hey shiz I need some help against Jigglypuff, normally I'm fine against *it* but then once jigglypuff gets me off of a ledge, I find that every time I try to recover, Jigglypuff will just hop into the air, do an aerial, and then I'd be knocked down further, where my recovery moves would be rendered useless. With Jigglypuff's fast aerials and extra jumps, i find that I rarely make it back to the ledge.

Thanks for reading, and I hope you have a solution to my problem.

try coming back from below the stage?

 

[DaShizWiz]

Aaron Sketch, I was just fighting one of the best jigglypuff's in florida yesterday. What I figured out that works extremely well is that you build up there damage by getting a shine, and instead of trying to combo do a full jumped Uair. And then keep your distance, after they get to about 80 damage(It has to be 80 damage or more) you throw them down and do a forward smash. Because they can't tech your Down throw after 80 damage. This works extremely well.

Forward, I'd have to say some range from about 20 damage and under, if the falco your playing isn't too great and messes up just a very little bit after they get their fist dair shine. Even if they can get a dair shine, and then they're trying to do it again, just hold L or R, so once you hit the ground you will shield. Or what my brother does to evade him from getting in a shine from me, is Right after he approaches me with a grab and misses, he will DI the other way, so its extremely hard for falco to go catch fox with a another dair.

 

[fettrooper2000]

Sup guys, just returned from the tournament in Orlando called Gigabits. When me and my brother KeepSpeedN were in the Finals I forfeited to him, so I got 2nd place and he got 1st . When vids are up I'll be sure to show them to you guys .

Cheezzhead, when you say tricks what do you mean by it? Do you mean combos, damages, characters, etc? Just let me know, as soon as you do I'll be sure to reply .

Fettrooper2000, falcos short hop laser technique is when you short hop, push b, and then fastfall towards the ground. The use for it is that it can stunn your opponent, it can be used as a mindgame, it helps you lead into some pretty deadly combos. Some tips on how to get better with falco..... you'd have to tell me what level your around and what type of stuff can you do? Can you wavedash/l-cancel? Stuff like this, be sure to tell me. And when you do I'll be sure to give you some tips .

I can L-cancel, and do the short hop laser, and short hop d air, and some basic shine combos, dash dance, and edgehogging. I am not very new to SSBM, but as far as learning advanced techniques, and getting more serious i am pretty new. I can wavedash, but not ver consistently so i only use it in practice, plus falco doesnt have a great wavedash, or at least i heard, and its mostly used for spacing. Any tips you can give for me to improve would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

 

[invertigo]

hey shiz. i need some help. ill give you an idea of the level im at.

with falco i can shl consistently, wavedash most of the time. i just learned how to shuffle consistently. i suck at waveshining but i can manage it. can you give me tips on how to approach an enemy fox with a shffld nair?

i can basically do the full shine combo on a non DI'ing opponent, i just need help starting it.

 

[SuperRad]

mango: have you been to norcal biweeklys before? if not, make sure to find falcomist when you are there, his falco is pretty **** nasty. same with germ, his falco is good too.

off topic spam ftw.

on-topic:
If I'm fullhopping instead of wavedashing like way too much, should i just be more focus'd or is there something wrong with my technique.

 

[AltF4]

Hey, how important is fast falling in a d-air to shine combo? I've been doing it w/o fast falling and it seems like i get shield grabbed before i even really hit the ground.

I can do a consistent full jump fast fall d-air shine combo, but not from a short hop. Is that something to put an emphasis in when training? Thx!

 

[kidprecision]

Hey, how important is fast falling in a d-air to shine combo? I've been doing it w/o fast falling and it seems like i get shield grabbed before i even really hit the ground.

I can do a consistent full jump fast fall d-air shine combo, but not from a short hop. Is that something to put an emphasis in when training? Thx!

The first question, you answered it yourself....lol

Second question, fast-fall after you hit your opponent. EDIT: I just recently had this same problem until a couple days ago. :]

 

[AltF4]

I guess I did sort of answer my own question there. I guess the problem I had with the short hop pillar is that I don't usually use the c-stick. I just hold down to do the dair, but that makes it difficult to recenter the joystick then bring it back down again to fast fall. So my follow up question is: Should I work on using the c-stick for the short hop pillar, or can it be done like I said by recentering the joysick then smashing it back down. How do others do it?

 

[invertigo]

yeah i just learned how to shuffle with c-stick after i found out the pros do it. you should do that too, its not that hard.

 

[DaShizWiz]

Definitely C-stick over the A button. Its much faster giving your character less lag, so it will be harder for your opponent to shield grab you. Also yes its important to fast fall after everything you do with falco. Especially trying to combo, so you don't get shield grabbed.

 

[kidprecision]

so shiz have you broken any shields multishining yet?

 

[DaShizWiz]

Lol, kisprecision, I don't necessarily break them, even though sometimes I do. I usually do about 2-3 JC'ed shines, and then do a dair, which will break their shield. I just recorded some matches today of a friend of mine that is somewhat new to the smash scene (Wavedashing and L-canceling, etc). I have a vid of me doing many jump canceled shines. I didn't do this on his shield because I didn't have the opportunity. But if it came down to it, I most likely could **** someones shield. I did it in the second to last tournament I went to when I had to fight Lambchops in the Finals. I was doing Shine shine dair shine shine dair, untill he had to roll which its very hard for them to roll. Or until I stopped doing that or grabbed him.

 

[charburner6]

so shiz, pillaring definetely isnt perfect, rite?

 

[invertigo]

shiz i think you missed my question :D

 

[invertigo]

oooh and im also having trouble doing a SHL into a grab. i approach a shielding opponent with SHL but he grabs me before i can grab him.

 

[kenshin7631]

This question is probably already answered but I'm pretty lazy to search for it but when I try to forward SHL and do it again, I go forward but I do a RSHL. I realized that when I was trying to go forward the analog stick flicked back but slightly and when it did that was when i jumped and my laser went backward. I tried having my thumb on the analog stick the whole time but it doesnt really work out. Any help with this?

 

[DaShizWiz]

Hmm, its either your thumb is pushing it back slightly. Or you could have a controller that just automatically does Reverse short hot lasers. Like rescently I had a controller that doesn't let me do short hop lasers, and it will automatically make you do a reverse short hop laser. You have to look for a controller that just lets you do them, its hard to find these types of controllers because all of the controllers are so new. But it may not be your fault, it may be the controllers fault. Like I just found my 4 year old controller like 4 days ago, its awesome. I can do perfect lasers with it, the only problem is the L button is a little broken. So its hard to L cancel. But if it is your thumb, are you jumping with the analog stick? If you are I understand why its flicking back a little bit. If your jumping with the Y or X button. Then just try to make sure your thumb is going forwardsbefore the laser shoots.

 

[kidprecision]

Shiz how long does it take you to break a controller in?

 

[DaShizWiz]

Wow, it actually takes about a month or 2 before its effectively broken in.

 

[SheerMadness]

Someone please explain their timing for wavedashing out of shffl'ed aerials. Whenever I get into a real match I rush the wavedash which means I end up just standing there after shines. Anyone have a certain routine their fingers go though that might help me stop using a Fox wavedash for Falco?

 

[terr13]

Hey shiz,
When you pillar, do you do the Dair as you're rising, or after you fastfall?

Also, what's a good way to practice L-cancelling on a shield, since my friend just shield grabs me out of my aerials.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Just keep playing Falco. It will take a while to get the wavedash out of an aerial down. It will be hard because Fox's moves work faster, but my best advice is work soley on Falco for a while, and get his timing down, because he has a very obscure wavedash. Just don't try to play him like Fox, and for god's sake, don't slow down the play speed in training (I guess a lot of people do, it really messes you up).

 

[invertigo]

shiz you missed my question plz help

 

[DaShizWiz]

Wow, I'm sorry bout that Invertigo, my bad. I'll answer it now .

Invertigo, a good way to start your combos on someone with falco to a fox, is either to grab them throw them down and do a shine. And then start your comboing from there. But, if they DI out of it consistently, then throw them up and catch them in the air with a shine, that should work. Hmmm, to get a short hop laser into a grab, are you having problems getting them with that? Or are you having problems doing short hop laser and then trying to grab?

Terr13, I do the Dair and then fastfall. If you did it the other way it would be that effective and you could get shield grab really easy from someone elses shield.

SheerMadness, what I used to do when I didn't know the timing for falco. Is that you have to wavedash out of the shine after you hear it hit your opponent. Try that, and then after a while, you'll memorize the timing so it'll be by reflex.

 

[tarheeljks]

it's so you can't get down smashed or down tilted as soon as you grab the ledge. it gives you a chance to get back on, otherwise if you got knocked off a stage it would be extremely difficult to get back on.

 

[Kumori]

I'm having alot of problems trying to dair or nair people as they jump back on the stage (When we are both off) got any tips?

 

[Pye]

I'm having alot of problems trying to dair or nair people as they jump back on the stage (When we are both off) got any tips?

Mind if I try answering one Shiz? Correct me if I'm wrong. You have more experience then me, lol.

You mean when you drop off the ledge after them, then jump back on into an aerial like a rising spike or nair? You have to drop off when your opponent is surprisingly close to the edge, otherwise you'll get back too early. Practice timing it against CPUs, then try it in matches. If you aren't already, I'd suggest you jump with the analog stick and tilt the cstick down to do the aerial immediatly after, by the way. It's much faster and requires less erratic hand movements.

For the most part, unless your opponent is a character who HAS to come back a certain way (like Falcon, Ganon or Marth), a rising nair or dair from the edge can easily be seen comming and avoided. What I would try to do is use the rising aerial as more of a "wall", to force your opponent to recover into a position where you can make them eat an fsmash or something (a little bit like Ness' PKT false edgeguard...except you're the PKT).

Excluding characters like Samus and Jiggs who can dance around for an eternity offstage and calculate a way back on, a rising dair is fantastic for intercepting sweetspot attempts (against, for example, Marth's upB. You drop off right before he's at sweetspot height, then when he upBs, jump and dair simultaniously. Before he gets the ledge, he'll run right into your spike).

EDIT: Just thought I'd point out that this thread wins . It seems to be helping a hell of a lot of players (myself included). Thanks Shiz, for staying loyal to the thread and continuing to come back and answer questions this long after it's creation.

 

[Binx]

So... fox's shine is kind of godly against falco, and the up-throw to upsmash and uair combos really suck to get hit by. Also for some reason my L-cancel skill has just gone down the toilet lately and I don't know why, I used to shffl pretty much everything 99% of the time, today though I am missing all my L cancels, I think it might just be because I am using a new controller. I have been taking my gamecube to this card shop on saturday mornings and playing against random people, and pretty much all of them are noob, but there is this one guy who is really good with Peach, I can beat him about one third the time, I stopped shining him and I think that really helped, I would just shffl dair's over and over w/o shining, every so often I throw a shine in so he is wary of shield grabbing me. Once I get him off the edge though I can't finish him, is there a way to kill peach w/o smashing her?

 

[Abulize]

Hey Shiz, how's it going? I haven't been on the boards lately. My question is about the dthrow on a Jigglypuff at 80 damage or more into dsmash. Does that work on every character because I saw BS do that a lot to Ken. I decided to do it today during a smashfest and everyone started calling me BombSoldier haha. So I was just wondering if it works consistently because I tried it at lower damages and I know they can always DI the throw or tech it.

 

[booshk]

shiz what button do u use to double shine? and what fingers do u use to press those buttons? thx :]

 

[DaShizWiz]

Thanks Pye .

Binx, to kill peach when she is off the stage you don't necesarily even need to touch her, if he's a peach that likes to mindgame their way to the ledge, just try to get on the edge at the right time, or if you want to try to kill them when they are at higher damages. Just do a down tilit, it works pretty good. And most likely the reason your L-canceling has been wrong lately is either, yeah its the new controller. Or you havn't been using that character that much.

Abulize, it doesn't necessarily work on every character. But at higher damages it gets harder to tech and move and then roll. So around higher damages I sometimes do down throw to downsmash. At lower damages it is easier to tech so yeah it doesn't work too good. But never throw down a jigglypuff at lower damages, if their good enough they can come out with a rest.

Booshk, the buttons I use for double shines is Y and B. I use my thumb for both buttons.

 

[MasterGary]

this is my first question for u. seeing that ur a more expierienced falco then i am.how do u do the dubbel shine in 1 spot like that? i tried shine down wavedash shine but i dont know if thats the proper way to do it and when i do it like that its kinda complicated and goes pretty slow.

 

[DaShizWiz]

MasterGary, the way I do the double Shine, is you do a shine, and then you jump, and after you jump you do another shine. But if you do it quick enough, your jump will cancel out the animation of jumping in the air so your shine will stay on the ground as if you've never jumped.

 

[marthsword]

Hey Shiz, I'm clueless against fighting a jigglypuff. I watched Bob$ falco vs. foxroar's jiggz, and bob money did a ton of laser camping. I need help, that's all I know hot to do.

 

[DaShizWiz]

Well, what you want to do is get a shine on jigglypuff, and then do a Uair after you get Jigglypuff in the air. After about 1 or 2 times of doing this stop doing this. Try to build up the jiggs damage with lasers or hits and then run away. Get jiggs up to about 80 damage, grab jiggs, throw down and forward smash. It works really good and most likely the jiggs will die .

I don't like fighting Jiggs either, its a really annoying match up.

 

[marthsword]

Well, what you want to do is get a shine on jigglypuff, and then do a Uair after you get Jigglypuff in the air. After about 1 or 2 times of doing this stop doing this. Try to build up the jiggs damage with lasers or hits and then run away. Get jiggs up to about 80 damage, grab jiggs, throw down and forward smash. It works really good and most likely the jiggs will die .

I don't like fighting Jiggs either, its a really annoying match up.

Thanks a lot. Yeah, she's so floaty, and gets rest combos (u throw to rest) on you so easily!

 

[DaShizWiz]

Yeah, try to avoid every grab, be sure to approach with lasers, and then run away with a reverse laser. You have to keep your distance against Jiggs.

 

[Kumori]

Ok, thanks for the other help, now another question. I am having ALOT of trouble with sffling dair on sheik (My friend LOVES using up tilt and using running attacks to juggle), and shine and almost anything but grabs and lasers, got any tips?

 

[DaShizWiz]

Kumori, ok what you want to do is not approach sheik from over her. She has good priority with her up tilt. What you want to do is grab more, and when you grab, throw her up, and then jump in the air with a Nair. Once you get a shine, at lower damages, do a shine, then a dair and try to connect it with an up tilt. But they can get out of that at low percentages. Once they get up to higher damages, you will be able to combo the crap out of them. You want to use lasers also, try not to be too agressive vs sheik. If they are agressive, try to play agressive also so they are not in control of the fight. If they aren't agressive and are gay and just like to grab and camp near the ledge and use needles. Then camp the **** out of them with lasers. If they love to use their dash attack (this works really well what im about to tell you), then shield their dash attack, and after they are next to you because they are trying to hit you, jump out of your shield with a shine, and then do a bair. Or if they are the type of sheik to do lots of grabbing and shielding, then while trying to break their shield, do a dair to a shine, and after the shine do a jump canceled grab, it works extremely well and no one really expects it.

 

[MasterGary]

iv noticed that u have alot of good strategies and tactics . but i was wondering if u hav any ideas on playing a marth that mostaly shield n grabs and uses the forward smash alot.