Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[Sé2N]

I heard that several insanely good players sold their soul to the devil.. this is an eye opener to all atheists out there THERES ALWAYS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT! LAWL

 

[Falcinho]

@ 4 Aces: Yes, it's (pretty much) the same timing as lhdl

 

[IrArby]

Wait he runs off and shoots back towards the stage or shoots outwards away from the stage at a recovering opponent. I mean you could do either but which one does he do?

 

[4 Aces]

Thanks Falcinho. At least I know I'm doing the motion right. I just need to fine-tune it now.

Wait he runs off and shoots back towards the stage or shoots outwards away from the stage at a recovering opponent. I mean you could do either but which one does he do?

He does it back toward the stage. It's like his way of laser camping. I've never seen him do it away from the stage much (if ever); he's usually doing something else.

 

[IrArby]

Actually, in Soilder of Fortune he does it away from the stage a few times to hit a Spacie out of his UpB so they sink lower and further from the stage. I'd forgotten about it until I was playing around with it earlier.

 

[4 Aces]

Oh, pretty cool. It has been a while since I've seen Soldier of Fortune. I'll probably revisit it some time later. Lately I've been watching my playlist of old SSBM vids. It's funny how our minds change. My reaction to some of the battles are different now (I used to think this one battle between these two people were good (Link and Ganondorf), but now that I've revisited them, they're not all that great - I can see the mistakes now...he had cool music though...), since I actually play with ATs now, whereas 2 years ago I didn't.

 

[RaynEX]

Bombsoldier blows. hehe.

Lets all go to the ZHU! zhukeeper is amaaaazing.

 

[IrArby]

But Bombsoilder has the best music in his combo vid (the first song at least if I remember correctly) That should make him the best IMO!

And besides that, check the sig. What more could you ask for in a Falco (other than the ability to DI).

 

[battousai555]

Is it generally better to follow a SHL w/ a SHFFL'd Nair or a Dair? The Nair seems like it's easier to L-cancel if it hits a shield because the timing doesn't change much. Does it depend on what character your opponent is using?

 

[Falcinho]

Nair is better to approach with in most cases. It comes out a bit faster, so can wait a bit longer and look what your opponent is doing (for example roll away or FJ over you) and react to that.
If he just stays in shield you do nair to shine (to pillar if you're good at it)

Against chars with good upB out of shield or lightshielding Marths you better don't approach if their shield isn't low.

 

[battousai555]

Nair is better to approach with in most cases. It comes out a bit faster, so can wait a bit longer and look what your opponent is doing (for example roll away or FJ over you) and react to that.
If he just stays in shield you do nair to shine (to pillar if you're good at it)

Against chars with good upB out of shield or lightshielding Marths you better don't approach if their shield isn't low.

Ah, thanks. The Nair also seems better because it's easy to land behind your opponent.

 

[FrostFalco]

Well, I can wavedash really bad, but I don't know if I should because I usually use Falco, so is wavedash any useful for Falco so if its a no I'll stop using wavedash. Ok thanks.

 

[Pengie]

Wavedashing out of your shine is vital for doing combos and you can use wavedashing and wavelanding to mix up your RSHL.

 

[Da Shuffla]

I main Fox and decided to pick up Falco as one of my secondaries. So naturally the first thing I practiced was SHL. The problem is that since Falco is on the ground 2 frames longer for the jump to happen, I don't get the laser off when I shorthop. So I started pressing B twice like the SHDL. That, however didn't allow me to hit shorter characters. Any tips? I don't want to use the control stick to SH. Makes mobile SHL harder.

 

[Falcinho]

Just get used to pressing B a bit later.

shl is an easy technique but you should spent some time practicing it, so you don't mess up and eat a tipper =/

 

[Da Shuffla]

Trust me, I will. Another question, I'm having trouble multishining. Does this have to do with their jump animations as well? Do I need to slow down?

 

[Falcinho]

If you can multishine with Fox consistently but not with Falco, you're probably doing it a bit too fast.

Does your 2nd shine come out?

 

[smasher91613]

im just picking up melee again after not playing for awhile, but never being that great.

im starting to get wavedashing down but for some reason i cant lead into anything with it. can someone help me with that?

also any tips for edgegaurding with him?

 

[Da Shuffla]

If you can multishine with Fox consistently but not with Falco, you're probably doing it a bit too fast.

Does your 2nd shine come out?

No, I do B>Y>B, but I just end up jumping instead.

Smasher91613, some Falco edgeguards I've seen are ledgehopped Dairs and Bairs. Tilt down and IMMEDIATELY tap up and use your Dair ("rising spike"). Best to C-stick these aerials. That allows you to DI with the control stick back to the stage. Watch out though, the Dair can't be meteor cancelled, but it can be ledgeteched. So tilt down, 2nd jump, Dair while DIing back on stage.

 

[smasher91613]

No, I do B>Y>B, but I just end up jumping instead.

Smasher91613, some Falco edgeguards I've seen are ledgehopped Dairs and Bairs. I would suggest tapping away from the edge rather than down on the control stick. Don't want to risk that fast fall. Best to C-stick these aerials. That allows you to DI with the control stick back to the stage. Watch out though, the Dair can't be meteor cancelled, but it can be ledgeteched. So tap back, 2nd jump, Dair while DIing back on stage.

lmao no idea what ledgetehching or meteor cancelling is.

right now i try to edge gaurd but my brothers link and does up B so i get screwed and just wait for him. when i hang on the side i try to do bair but its hard for me to pull off especially without dying after it

 

[Da Shuffla]

lmao no idea what ledgetehching or meteor cancelling is.

right now i try to edge gaurd but my brothers link and does up B so i get screwed and just wait for him. when i hang on the side i try to do bair but its hard for me to pull off especially without dying after it

These terms are stickied somewhere. I forgot the link, but they shouldn't be hard to find. With Link's recovery, I would drop and regrab so that when he gets to you, you have those invincibility frames. Then, you can go for the rising spike, or just edgehog. Bairs are better used when your opponent tries to go above you while you're hanging.

 

[smasher91613]

These terms are stickied somewhere. I forgot the link, but they shouldn't be hard to find. With Link's recovery, I would drop and regrab so that when he gets to you, you have those invincibility frames. Then, you can go for the rising spike, or just edgehog. Bairs are better used when your opponent tries to go above you while you're hanging.

yea i used the drop and regrab and it worked a couple of times, but sometimes he does just get above me in which case i guess theres not much to do. my favorite thing is to spike them down but they have to be significantly higher for me not to go down and die too. i like to do a shine and then spike off the edge, just learned how to wavedash into that although it'll be awhile before i can do that in a real match.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Compendium of Knowledge is where I was thinking of to find those terms. If he is able to go above you, maybe you could try a laser to disrupt his recovery from the stage, forcing him to drop below you. You can even ledge hop and fire a laser away from the edge. I just got up and practiced it and I did it twice in about 10 minutes. Drop, jump IMMEDIATELY, DI towards the stage, tap away from the stage and press B. This will take much practice to do consistently, but next time your bro tries to go above you, ledge hop reverse laser(LHRL). There might be another name for this. He drops down, and you can also go for a Dsmash, which I forgot before, to edgeguard. That's safer than the LHRL, but it's always good to have options. The Dsmash can also be ledgeteched.

 

[smasher91613]

Compendium of Knowledge is where I was thinking of to find those terms. If he is able to go above you, maybe you could try a laser to disrupt his recovery from the stage, forcing him to drop below you. You can even ledge hop and fire a laser away from the edge. I just got up and practiced it and I did it twice in about 10 minutes. Drop, jump IMMEDIATELY, DI towards the stage, tap away from the stage and press B. This will take much practice to do consistently, but next time your bro tries to go above you, ledge hop reverse laser(LHRL). There might be another name for this. He drops down, and you can also go for a Dsmash, which I forgot before, to edgeguard. That's safer than the LHRL, but it's always good to have options. The Dsmash can also be ledgeteched.

so basically when he's coming drop down to the ledge but then come up, turn around and press B? why drop down at all then, to make sure he doesnt grab the ledge? i'd have to get that pretty d*mn fast but i'll try it.

gotta go look what ledgeteching is now lol

edit: just checked it out, turns out i've done that a lot on starfox's ship having no idea what it was haha.

that looks really hard on the ledge, so basically the second i get hit while on the edge i press L/R? do i face towards the platform?

 

[Da Shuffla]

Holding the ledge forces him to come above you for his recovery. You drop down b/c if you simply press X, you will go into the "Melee ledge jump." This is where you go much higher than needed to defend the ledge, and you won't have control of Falco for a second or two. Yes, you do have to be fast, but you'll get it soon. Hang on the ledge, and when you see him about to go above you, drop down, jump RIGHT AFTER, DI towards the stage, tap away from the ledge, and fire the laser. Tap THEN press B, if you do both, you'll phantom off the stage. Don't wait till you get hit, keep regrabbing to keep invincibility. When Link sees you're not letting go, he'll go above you. When he does, LHRL, he'll drop below, and you go for a Dsmash.

 

[smasher91613]

Holding the ledge forces him to come above you for his recovery. You drop down b/c if you simply press X, you will go into the "Melee ledge jump." This is where you go much higher than needed to defend the ledge, and you won't have control of Falco for a second or two. Yes, you do have to be fast, but you'll get it soon. Hang on the ledge, and when you see him about to go above you, drop down, jump RIGHT AFTER, DI towards the stage, tap away from the ledge, and fire the laser. Tap THEN press B, if you do both, you'll phantom off the stage. Don't wait till you get hit, keep regrabbing to keep invincibility. When Link sees you're not letting go, he'll go above you. When he does, LHRL, he'll drop below, and you go for a Dsmash.

ok cool i'll try that.

about the ledge teching was i right in how to do it? i saw a youtube video and i've never seen it done before like that, does it stop you from dying at any %? and you just pres L/R towards the stage when hit?

 

[Falcinho]

Well, at higher %es you have to Smash DI towards the stage and tech which needs some practice, but even if you're good at ledgeteching, you should rather try to recover in a way your opponent doesn't count with.

On the other hand you have to consider what recover-possibilities your opponent has. For example Link can also use his chain to throw off your timing. (sry if this was mentioned in one of the posts above, i didn't read them all)
So the best probably is to ledgehog right before he has to use his upB or chain (if you think he'll sweetspot) or if you can stall at the ledge (upB-stall/illusion-stall/ledgehop-fastfall-stall) so that you are invincible when he uses his upB. Then just do a ledgehopped bair or dair.
If you have trouble with some techs just practice them =P

Wavedashing usually only "leads" to something if you do a waveshine = shine and wavedash out of it.
Wavedashes are rather used for dodging attacks (or more general spacing) and ledgehogging.

@Da Shuffla: Then i guess you're hitting B to fast. But i'm no expert at multishines, i'm trying to incorporate it into my game myself atm, so i can just give you the standard advice:
Practice it in trainingsmode or vs lvl1 cpus or plug in a 2nd controller and practice it without cpu, but with c-stick =D

 

[smasher91613]

ok i definitely dont have anyone to practice teching with but i'll try in the future. the way i saw it it seemed really useful but i guess it depends if theres walls or if your holding on to anything

by the way i tried that jump cancelling usmash, it worked and was noticeably faster but i couldnt get it down without using a different hand for the c-stick than the jump. just not quick enough i guess cause i kept short hopping into a uair

lol i used to think the only big difference was how the pro's wavedashed into so much stuff, i didnt think it was just for shines really (although thats what ive found it to be most useful for so far). i didn't even know about all the shffl crap and other things. still gotta get l-cancelling down. it doesn't seem to do much but apparently its really important

 

[Falcinho]

Yes, lcanceling is a must. It makes those awsome combos possible =D

 

[Professor Pro]

The only Falco that needs help with combos is brawl falcos.

 

[Da Shuffla]

@ Falcinho: Thanks, I was going too fast. Might help you, travel along the outer edge of the Y button, and then press B. The outer part forces you to go a slightly further distance to the B button and tempers your speed.

@ Smasher 91613: Training mode, go to Onett. Let cars hit you, this forces you to tech off of the walls to stay alive. Also, for normal techs, go to Falco's Target test. Walk to the right to where the target is spinning aroud the damaging wall, go under it, and jump into it. Then, continually tech when you hit the ground.

 

[Falcinho]

The only Falco that needs help with combos is brawl falcos.

LOL

@Da Shuffla: Yeah that's how i do it most of the time, but i sometimes don't hit Y hard enough and i don't jump =/
Need to practice it again.

 

[smasher91613]

Yes, lcanceling is a must. It makes those awsome combos possible =D

so you can't get them without it? **** i need someone to practice with, no one i know is good at melee.

i tried l-cancelling with falco's dair into his shine but couldn't get it, i'll have to practice more later

@ Falcinho: Thanks, I was going too fast. Might help you, travel along the outer edge of the Y button, and then press B. The outer part forces you to go a slightly further distance to the B button and tempers your speed.

@ Smasher 91613: Training mode, go to Onett. Let cars hit you, this forces you to tech off of the walls to stay alive. Also, for normal techs, go to Falco's Target test. Walk to the right to where the target is spinning aroud the damaging wall, go under it, and jump into it. Then, continually tech when you hit the ground.

ok cool thanks

this looked pretty cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QElifBiVv60 don't know how applicable it would be like that but i might as well learn it

-just to be clear, i hold R/L about 1/2sec. before hitting the wall right? or just tap it?

 

[Da Shuffla]

@ Falcinho: Yeah, that's what I've been wondering too. Does Falco's Dair combo directly into his shine like Fox's?

Smasher91613, just tap it about 1/2 a second before you hit the wall. And if you haven't been told yet, there is a set of vids on advanced play on youtube. They're from WakO17, try searching his name. I think it has 3 parts. Those vids give you everything you need to know.

 

[Junpappy]

Falco's dair DOES combo into his shine if l-canceled correctly and if spaced correctly. The only reason I bring up spacing is because the higher on their body you hit them, the more possible crouch-cancel countering becomes, which can get you ***** in a match vs another space animal where you can hit with your dair and get shined before your shine comes out.

 

[brandenkar]

I have a quick question: when you d-air, l-cancel into a shine cancel and then to start/continue pillaring, must you shuffle the d-air? or is it mostly started from a full jump into a fastfalled d-air at the peak of the jump, l-cancelled into a shine cancel? How do you shuffle a d-air? Is it this sequence?: short hop, down on control stick - press a, fast-fall, l-cancel? If that is so, how can you down on the control stick and then down another time for the fast fall in one short hop? Or is the sequence: short hop, wait till peak of jump, then down on control stick - press a (so that you fastfall the d-air), l-cancel?

Sorry if it is hard to understand what i wrote, i will be glad to rephrase this post if needed.
Please help me out with this, thank you very much. ( "-" means at the same time press a, aka meaning "simultaneously")

 

[Da Shuffla]

Here's the sequence: short hop, press A while holding down for the fast-fall, L-cancel. For the Dair, by the time you make it from flicking X back over to A, you have reached the peak of your short hop. So, performing the Dair will automatically cause you to fast-fall. Then you can L-cancel into a shine. Falcos usually approach with SHLs to stun, so as soon as Falco gets a laser in at close range, he can shuffle a Dair on the stunned foe.

 

[Falcinho]

Falco's dair DOES combo into his shine if l-canceled correctly and if spaced correctly. The only reason I bring up spacing is because the higher on their body you hit them, the more possible crouch-cancel countering becomes, which can get you ***** in a match vs another space animal where you can hit with your dair and get shined before your shine comes out.

Don't tell everybody my anti-spacies-strategy

Oh and ppl could also SDI out of bad spaced dairs =/


@brandenkar: FJ or DJ and coming down with dair (-->shine) is a very bad approach.
shl or shffl'd nair/dair are better setups for pillaring. nair>dair when approaching.

And i use the c-stick to do the dair when i pillar, cause i find it a lot easier like this (not only to time it but also to space it), but just try out what suits you =D

 

[smasher91613]

Don't tell everybody my anti-spacies-strategy

Oh and ppl could also SDI out of bad spaced dairs =/


@brandenkar: FJ or DJ and coming down with dair (-->shine) is a very bad approach.
shl or shffl'd nair/dair are better setups for pillaring. nair>dair when approaching.

And i use the c-stick to do the dair when i pillar, cause i find it a lot easier like this (not only to time it but also to space it), but just try out what suits you =D

SDI, smash DI right? i looked at the definition but it didn't make sense to me. So your just hitting the C-stick towards the direction you want to go or something?

 

[Falcinho]

To smash DI you smash the controll stick in the wished direction while being hit by an attack (that makes you move a bit)

If this doesn't make sense just let a lvl1 cpu hit you with the AAA-Combo and smash the control stick left or right

E: It doesn't work with the c-stick afaik