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Who is the best pokemon at a pro level?
- Thread starter dre_89_
- Start date
T-block
B2B TST
Squirtle > Charizard > Ivysaur is pretty clear at the moment
Miles.
Smash Champion
Yup. This is it. altough there is a lot of room for change.
Squirtle is clearly the best though.
Phiddlesticks
Smash Lord
But in frame by frame mode Squirtle can just jab whenever his opponents try to hit him ?_?
Terodactyl Yelnats
Smash Ace
My favorite to play is Ivysaur and as much as it pains me to say this, he is the worst of the group. Squirtle is now and always will be the best.
ಠ_________________ಠ
Magik0722
Smash Champion
Id stick with Ivy > zard > Squirt
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
I thought it was
Charizard>Squitle>Ivysaur
Charizard>Squitle>Ivysaur
Given the current metagame, it's clearly Squirtle > > Charizard > > > > Ivysaur.
(Keep in mind, those are greater-than signs.)
There's a pretty sizable gap between Squirtle and Charizard, and a REALLY large gap between Charizard and Ivysaur.
Anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn't understand how top level play works.
(Keep in mind, those are greater-than signs.)
There's a pretty sizable gap between Squirtle and Charizard, and a REALLY large gap between Charizard and Ivysaur.
Anyone who says otherwise clearly doesn't understand how top level play works.
Magik0722
Smash Champion
cmon guys ivysuar is good, dont abandon him
Retro Gaming
Black and White Thinking
Ivysaur is still my favourite. But I still don't think it's good. 
smashkng
Smash Lord
Ivysaur does best of the three against Snake.
Retro Gaming
Black and White Thinking
That would be true if Ivysaur didn't die at ridiculous percentages from all of Snake's explosions and had a reliable kill option versus Snake's fatness.
Viperdev
Smash Apprentice
I would say squart>ivy>zard but thats just from my experiences
Gindler
Smash Champion
People actually have to ask? Squirtle is clearly S-tier material by himself
Tis true, just watch those mortars
ivysaur is good
in a few matchups
usually against bad to average characters
but that's just the thing, ivy is pretty situational. his main weapon is supposed to be his spacing, which doesn't do enough damage to compete on even footing with top spacers like marth, gw, and mk. and then there's the issue of weak zoning, because it's not very difficult to put ivy in a really bad spot. meaning with your back to the edge getting pressured into an edgeguard. which means a zoning advantage for the opponent. and ivysaur lacks a safe, reliable way to deal damage. bullet seed is not safe. nair stuff is the closest you'll get to that. which is pretty good, but ivy doesn't have much else.
squirtle is viable because he has plenty of damage options and can rack up a lot of damage safely. i'd venture to say that his spacing game is better and safer than ivysaur's, ironically. and his punish game is really good. both his air game and ground game are fantastic, imo. and complement each other very well. maybe the opponent sits in their shield a lot in fear of your air game, which is when you use your awesome grab game...and then set up your aerials and pressure from there. or just kill them with dthrow.
charizard is kinda viable. at this point i think he's middle of mid tier at best, but who knows. i think charizard has the most room to grow in the future because it's obvious how good squirtle is and what he can do and it's obvious how bad ivysaur is and what he can and can't do...but charizard? he's worse than squirtle and better than ivysaur but by how much? his spacing game is really solid when you use rock smash and flamethrower correctly as means for that end. he can chase opponents really well when his feet are on the ground with that dash speed and grab range. best combination of the two in the game. plus his out of shield options are great, mainly because of grab, bair, and USMASH. this thing ***** out of shield. all tilts can KO, all aerials can KO (nair sweetspot is tough to land though), and you don't have to put yourself in much risk with the spacing game i mentioned. plus you have one of the scariest moves in the game in rock smash...which isn't that difficult to set up when you learn to predict an attack and space the rock to "rock counter" them...
i'm ranting
also i think squirtle does slightly better than ivysaur against snake, but that's just my experience. my squirtle's better than ivysaur but i can definitely see the merit of using ivy. if only razor leaf were better at keeping snake out.
in a few matchups
usually against bad to average characters
but that's just the thing, ivy is pretty situational. his main weapon is supposed to be his spacing, which doesn't do enough damage to compete on even footing with top spacers like marth, gw, and mk. and then there's the issue of weak zoning, because it's not very difficult to put ivy in a really bad spot. meaning with your back to the edge getting pressured into an edgeguard. which means a zoning advantage for the opponent. and ivysaur lacks a safe, reliable way to deal damage. bullet seed is not safe. nair stuff is the closest you'll get to that. which is pretty good, but ivy doesn't have much else.
squirtle is viable because he has plenty of damage options and can rack up a lot of damage safely. i'd venture to say that his spacing game is better and safer than ivysaur's, ironically. and his punish game is really good. both his air game and ground game are fantastic, imo. and complement each other very well. maybe the opponent sits in their shield a lot in fear of your air game, which is when you use your awesome grab game...and then set up your aerials and pressure from there. or just kill them with dthrow.
charizard is kinda viable. at this point i think he's middle of mid tier at best, but who knows. i think charizard has the most room to grow in the future because it's obvious how good squirtle is and what he can do and it's obvious how bad ivysaur is and what he can and can't do...but charizard? he's worse than squirtle and better than ivysaur but by how much? his spacing game is really solid when you use rock smash and flamethrower correctly as means for that end. he can chase opponents really well when his feet are on the ground with that dash speed and grab range. best combination of the two in the game. plus his out of shield options are great, mainly because of grab, bair, and USMASH. this thing ***** out of shield. all tilts can KO, all aerials can KO (nair sweetspot is tough to land though), and you don't have to put yourself in much risk with the spacing game i mentioned. plus you have one of the scariest moves in the game in rock smash...which isn't that difficult to set up when you learn to predict an attack and space the rock to "rock counter" them...
i'm ranting
also i think squirtle does slightly better than ivysaur against snake, but that's just my experience. my squirtle's better than ivysaur but i can definitely see the merit of using ivy. if only razor leaf were better at keeping snake out.
mountain_tiger
Smash Champion
Squirtle > Charizard >>> Ivysaur.
*goes up against Ivysaur*
* hits Ivy off stage*
* times edgehog*
* Ivy dies*
*goes up against Ivysaur*
* hits Ivy off stage*
* times edgehog*
* Ivy dies*
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
No.
For my new PT atm it is Charizard > Squirtle > Ivysaur, but they're quite even right now.
But after seeing other people play, I would agree on the general consensus of Squirtle > Charizard > Ivysaur. I'm gonna work on Charizard so that he is even with Squirtle >:[
Griffard
Smash Ace
I would agree that at a high level,
Squirtle>Zard>Ivy,
but personally, my Ivysaur is the best, and my Charizard is the next best, with me only using Squirtle for kills at high percentages. I've never ever had problems with being edgehogged as Ivysaur, thanks to vine whips, leaves, and even just the killing potential of the UP-B. The only problem occurs when you're at too high of a percentage to recover anyways.
Don't give up on Ivysaur!!!
Squirtle>Zard>Ivy,
but personally, my Ivysaur is the best, and my Charizard is the next best, with me only using Squirtle for kills at high percentages. I've never ever had problems with being edgehogged as Ivysaur, thanks to vine whips, leaves, and even just the killing potential of the UP-B. The only problem occurs when you're at too high of a percentage to recover anyways.
Don't give up on Ivysaur!!!
MaTA
Smash Ace
I used to play squirtle first but now charizard kills a lot for me. squirtle is really good. Charizard ***** snake...ivy is good and all but
Racuza
Smash Rookie
Squirtle, which I just started to master a few days ago, is quick and a great multihitter especially with his dair. Then comes Ivysaur because of his Bullet Seed and his Uair. Ivysaur can demolish a ton of people and is a great way to kill heavy characters with his Uair. Lastly, is Charizard. He is a powerhouse, yes, but his speed is what generally kills him. His ways of killing people are great, especially his Fair and Dair. His Flamethrower and Rock Smash are good, but it takes a bit of time to make it work.
Depending on how things go, it ends up like this for me:
For me, it's Squirtle >> Ivysaur > Charizard.
OR
Squirtle >> Charizard > Ivysaur.
but remember, this is just my experience of me using them and fighting against them.
I still say that Squirtle is way overrated.
Depending on how things go, it ends up like this for me:
For me, it's Squirtle >> Ivysaur > Charizard.
OR
Squirtle >> Charizard > Ivysaur.
but remember, this is just my experience of me using them and fighting against them.
I still say that Squirtle is way overrated.
I've heard Snake can abuse Charizard with his dthrow techchase. Honestly I don't know this matchup too well because I main ZSS and I use her whenever I go up against Snake. If the Dthrow wasn't a factor Charizard would do well. Flamethower works well against him, his speed helps fight grenades, he has great answers to Snakedashing, and he can gimp the cypher easily.I used to play squirtle first but now charizard kills a lot for me. squirtle is really good. Charizard ***** snake...ivy is good and all but
Uair is way too telegraphed. Sometimes you can get a fairly low percentage kill which is nice but smart opponents will avoid it most of the time. Bullet seed is great but doesn't compensate for Ivy's fairly obvious weaknesses mainly his recovery.
And I'm not sure what you mean about his speed. Charizard is the fastest out of the three in terms of running. His attacks also aren't THAT slow considering his power. His air speed is the only area in which he's truly lacking. Oh and he walks real slow but thats generally not too much of an issue. Charizard definitely has a lot of untapped potential. Rocksmash is ridiculous, and flamethrower can destroy heavier characters. Combine that with grab speed/range and his run speed and he's very dangerous. And as Steeler loves to mention Usmash is awesome. Speed, power, and range. I don't think its unforseeable for him to surpass Squirtle in time even though he's not quite there yet.
Squirtle's great too. Simply put he can put out more pressure than a lot of characters can deal with. He also has some unique options with shellshifting and of course incredibly fast attacks. Unfortunately he suffers from grabrelease stuff and range but that hasn't proven insurmountable for Wario so maybe he'll be okay.
Squirtle>Charizard>>>Ivysaur.
Squirtle is probably the best in the competitive matches because he has a playstyle similar to Metaknight's, which is overwhelming the opponent with quick attacks.. Charizard is second for being a pretty fast for the strength of his moves. Ivysaur is last because he's light but has slow killers. His only good points are racking up damage and annoying the opponent.
TheREALShadowChaos
Smash Journeyman
Combosaur > Charizard > Squirtle > Ivysaur
Though Ivysaur and Combosaur win at awsomeness at every level of play.
Though Ivysaur and Combosaur win at awsomeness at every level of play.
Dekar173
Justice Man
Netherland?
SK92 took 16 stocks off of the Europe crew, while only losing 1 stock.
But I digress:
Squirtle >> Charizard >>>>>> Ivysaur
If Ivysaur gained momentum like Olimar or ZSS from using its tether, it'd be a different story. But Ivysaur's recovery places that Pokemon at the bottom of the tier list
SK92 took 16 stocks off of the Europe crew, while only losing 1 stock.
But I digress:
Squirtle >> Charizard >>>>>> Ivysaur
If Ivysaur gained momentum like Olimar or ZSS from using its tether, it'd be a different story. But Ivysaur's recovery places that Pokemon at the bottom of the tier list
Charizard92
Smash Champion
- Joined
- May 13, 2008
- Messages
- 2,207
This is done based off the tier list and based of (well, what actually exists of) the match ups. The point where a Character no longer has an advantage over anybody is their "tier maximum", or the highest they will get on the current tier list.
Squirtle:
B tier (under Game & Watch)
Ivysaur:
C Tier (Under sonic [if the List was ACTUALLY COMPLETED!!!])
Charizard:
B Tier (above Donkey Kong [we have a gap where Pit is])
Note, since our Match ups have gaping holes, determining where Each Pokemon fit is tough. There are of course tier outliers. Squirtle is just below Pikachu (where he stops having advantages in general), even though he does well against Diddy, several ranks higher. The "maximum" is where the Pokemon no longer gets "advantages streak". No pokemon has a streak above Pikachu (So no Pokemon will be S tier or A tier). Since there is a gaping hole after Sonic, accurately ranking Ivysaur is downright impossible.
Squirtle:
B tier (under Game & Watch)
Ivysaur:
C Tier (Under sonic [if the List was ACTUALLY COMPLETED!!!])
Charizard:
B Tier (above Donkey Kong [we have a gap where Pit is])
Note, since our Match ups have gaping holes, determining where Each Pokemon fit is tough. There are of course tier outliers. Squirtle is just below Pikachu (where he stops having advantages in general), even though he does well against Diddy, several ranks higher. The "maximum" is where the Pokemon no longer gets "advantages streak". No pokemon has a streak above Pikachu (So no Pokemon will be S tier or A tier). Since there is a gaping hole after Sonic, accurately ranking Ivysaur is downright impossible.