Who else is worried Brawl might not be that good?

[psicicle]

not to mention some players (like me) use every single button on the GC controller (even X, Y and control stick for jumps, I do use all of them).

There is no button left for wavedashing. Unless you turn pause off and use the start button or something but that takes too much tech skill since my thumb is too slow to reach there every time I want to wavedash.

EDIT: They can SHFFL but not WD? Can they JC grabs? If they can, then how hard could it be to wavedash?

What exactly is wrong witht heir fingers?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

That's a bit unjustly. I've come across 2 players that function well without wavedashing, simply cause they cannot do it. Do they suck? Hardly, they have every other important technique down.

Their fingers just don't allow wavedashing to happen, so they don't do it. They're walkers anyway.

extreme exception. How have they done in tournaments?

if you cant handle shorthop - diagonal right/left - L

then theres no way you can shffl consistently or JC grab properly.

Ill take your word for it though, but I doubt its common.

Walking is probably the best spacing technique in the game. I love it, probably more than wavedashing these days, finding new uses

 

[psicicle]

ehhh I don't like walking, I rarely use it because most of the time I'm already spaced well enough that a pivot will evade my opponent's attack, and I play characters that have good SHFFLs or grabs (I can't pivot smash or tilt consistently) or if I'm playing ice climbers I'll wavedash back then forward as a WD pivot because their dashdance sucks and nana is confused all the time. Although I'm pretty sure walking is good for marths or characters that have very good smashes because pivoting is hard.

Also you don't need to shorthop to wavedash.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Also you don't need to shorthop to wavedash.

Meh, I do it out of habbit. Fulljumping is very hard for me to do, actually. (strange as that sounds) I have to really nail the button because otherwise I always short hop, no matter what controller. I just am so used to shffling I guess.

Meh with falco walk --- fsmash the other direction can work just like marths... but only on the edgeguard. Aside from that SHL SHL SHL SHL SHL SHL SHL omg.

 

[Rang Flash]

I love full jumping, especially with Marth's double fair. It's alot easier on the fingers than short hop double fair.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

if you find wavedashing difficult, you'll never beat a decent player. Not because you cant wavedash, but because you quite clearly suck at smash.

Yes.

That's a bit unjustly. I've come across 2 players that function well without wavedashing, simply cause they cannot do it. Do they suck? Hardly, they have every other important technique down.

Their fingers just don't allow wavedashing to happen, so they don't do it. They're walkers anyway.

And what character are they using? Marth?

That or they weren't fighting players who were skilled with their techs.

I'm not being biased toward wavedashing, but the sad truth is that if you can do it properly, you're more skilled, and you're better. Now please, enough of this.

By the way, http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=110719

Pokemon Trainer looks like a very interesting character. I personally won't be using him unless I'm in the mood for just playing around in an items match or something - but the concept looks great. I think he'll probably be a little more tricky to use than some other characters judging by the added intricacies like stamina, and the order of switching.

 

[Adi]

I love full jumping, especially with Marth's double fair. It's alot easier on the fingers than short hop double fair.

Lol, you realize they both have completely different applications... wait what am I saying, full jumping is completely useless for Marth in general ^^.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

I am.

Mostly character choices for who gets to be playable and who is an AT. There is no excuse for Samurai Goroh not being a playable character.

Don't get me wrong, Brawl is gonna kick all kinds of A, but it's already knocked down a notch in my book.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

That's personal opinion. As far as game mechanics, visuals, and playability is concerned, I'm pretty certain Brawl will not only surpass Melee, but many other fighters out there as well.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

That's personal opinion. As far as game mechanics, visuals, and playability is concerned, I'm pretty certain Brawl will not only surpass Melee, but many other fighters out there as well.

No doubt about that, but as I said, the only thing I'm worried about is characters. Pokemon Trainer was a good move, though.

 

[specialsauce]

i wouldnt be worried about characeters, they know what their doing and for the most part I think the roster willl end up aawesome(expecially with the possibilities pokemon trainer opened up) , like any game though there will be a few things that arnt in it that people will complain about but i think this game will be so amazing that that virtually wont happen, only if they dont have online or sonic isnt in brawl , those are the few circumstances that would make people go crazy (including mysefl)

 

[HideousBeing]

Meh, I do it out of habbit. Fulljumping is very hard for me to do, actually. (strange as that sounds) I have to really nail the button because otherwise I always short hop, no matter what controller. I just am so used to shffling I guess.

Meh with falco walk --- fsmash the other direction can work just like marths... but only on the edgeguard. Aside from that SHL SHL SHL SHL SHL SHL SHL omg.

You use X/Y to SH? I use the control stick to jump at all times, and get discouraged when playing Sheik, because I can't SH. UmbreonMow told me he uses X/Y to jump always. Are you the same? And lol at "Not because you can't WD, but because you quite clearly suck." Heeheeheeeeee...

 

[BigRick]

I am.

Mostly character choices for who gets to be playable and who is an AT. There is no excuse for Samurai Goroh not being a playable character.

Don't get me wrong, Brawl is gonna kick all kinds of A, but it's already knocked down a notch in my book.

Who is Samurai Goroh?

 

[Mr.GAW]

F-Zero AT.

 

[psicicle]

Lol, you realize they both have completely different applications... wait what am I saying, full jumping is completely useless for Marth in general ^^.

I don't play marth but I thought it's used for ken combos?

 

[raphtmarqui]

Who is Samurai Goroh?

A bad idea for a playable character, and a good idea for an assist trophy.

 

[HideousBeing]

Who is Samurai Goroh?

A character from the F-Zero series. He's CF's rival. Check out his trophy on melee.

Who is raphtmarqui?

I dunno. Some F-Zero hatin' n00b evidently.

 

[Adi]

Well yeah of course full jumping is useful if the opponent is in the air, but the guy I was referring too was acting as if the too were interchangable.

 

[TheZizz]

Making a button just for WDing is just cheapening the effort it takes to learn how to do it.

Stop being such a lazy scrub, and do what it takes to win.

Jesus, I've had enough of you people. That argument just gets tired after a while.

Any decent player knows that the challenge of wavedashing is in how to apply it. Making a button for WD would not diminish the effort required to improve your game. In any case I really think that any game's "required effort" is pretty much self-actuating, it's something that's going to be there no matter what and really doesn't need to be considered or monitored.

Also, personal attacks do nothing to help your argument. You ought to provide a reason why having technical hurdles - such as those found in conventional fighting games in which a player might not necessarily be able to do what he wants his character to do - is good for Smash Bros.

No advanced technique is effective enough that they don't require strategy to be used right (and if they are then they're overpowered). I only think it's a good thing to chop away as much as possible at the barrier separating player and on-screen character. It's part of what makes Smash Bros. so great and unique.

 

[Mr.GAW]

^^^ But, making a wavedash button gets rid of it's usefulness. Unless you're saying this button would make you jump and airdodge very quickly, it would have to have an animation, in which you could not attack.

Plus, it doesn't make as much sense anymore. You aren't sliding because of low traction after coming into the ground at an angle, you're just doing it.

 

[TheZizz]

^^^ But, making a wavedash button gets rid of it's usefulness. Unless you're saying this button would make you jump and airdodge very quickly, it would have to have an animation, in which you could not attack.

Plus, it doesn't make as much sense anymore. You aren't sliding because of low traction after coming into the ground at an angle, you're just doing it.

I'm not sure I follow. Why would it have to have an animation in which you could not attack? If it had different behavior and properties than a wavedash then it wouldn't be a wavedash anymore. I'm not talking about something that isn't a wavedash.

If you're saying that implementing an identical wavedash without the need for a jump and air dodge is beyond the scope of the Brawl programmers' ability, well then that's just silly.

As for your second point, it would make as much sense as it ever has, which is 0. The air dodge is the only maneuver I can think of off the top of my head that allows instant recovery (besides jumping I guess); it does puzzle me why the characters weren't made to "poomph" in a way similar to an expired up-B attack.

Judging from video footage it looks as though characters are given a great deal of mobility immediately upon landing on the ground, which could be an indication of WD's demise.

Anyway, I do like the wavedash for the increased options that it brings, but overall I think there can be better methods of offering the player more options than a technique that allows mobile smash attacks, renders other moves obsolete and skews the already-warped ground vs. air balance.

 

[psicicle]

An animation could still be cancellable by attacks like shines can be cancelled by jumping.

 

[MCP0]

well i know for a fact that it wont be as good as halo 3. NOW THATS TRUE. God ****it

 

[raphtmarqui]

And whos HideousBeing?

I dunno. Some hoe that thinks shes special because she has a couple hundred posts.

 

[Pit 42]

I'm getting increasingly worried as this stands, so far, as the worst update week ever.

 

[Takuyo90]

On topic please, we don't want this one closed.

I figured since that last thread is a community, more than a thread, there should still be a place for this thread, you can close it if you think this was a bad idea



Owned ^^

i aought to do a dam pika thunder on you for saying that...its a sequal to the best gamecube seller and it has more the chance of it being dumb is -101%

 

[Takuyo90]

well i know for a fact that it wont be as good as halo 3. NOW THATS TRUE. God ****it

man what the.... a halo soldier is to dam fat to even fit through a dam mario pipe...hmph

 

[MirageofMadness]

man what the.... a halo soldier is to dam fat to even fit through a dam mario pipe...hmph

^haha that made me lol ^

Anyways, I think Brawl will turn out great still, even if we do have questionable updates so far this week. Although...

Pokemon trainer has me really excited to try him, but I'm not sure what I think of the concept. Its hard to explain, but I'm still not 100% convinced that PT will be a better idea than whoever doesn't make it in instead.

Also....stickers? I mean, usually I'm an optimist when it comes to the updates, but stickers seems lame. I liked the trophies a lot cuz they had descriptions, and you could look at them from all the way around. I hope that they don't just replace the trohphies with the stickers, or at least that they give the stickers descriptions.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

i aought to do a dam pika thunder on you for saying that...its a sequal to the best gamecube seller and it has more the chance of it being dumb is -101%

I scoff at your pika thunder and respond with a knee to your windpipe. HUAH!!! Falconnnnn PWNCH!

^^^ But, making a wavedash button gets rid of it's usefulness. Unless you're saying this button would make you jump and airdodge very quickly, it would have to have an animation, in which you could not attack.

Furthermore, if there was a button for it, the WD would go the same distance each time. The awesome thing about the WD in melee is that you can control it depending on the angle of your control stick. Having a insta wavedash button for people who are too lazy to probably put on pants in the morning is a bad idea.

 

[Dave the Perspicacious]

Of course we can't be certain, but personally I have 100% confidence in the brawl team that they will implement everything to an excellent standard - no matter how dumb, irrelevant or otherwise redundant some things may seem.

I have confidence that the team is aware of most of the issues that we may bring up, and have thoroughly thought all their ideas through, to come up with the best, most entertaining solution.
Maybe not everyone will be happy, perhaps even I will find something unsatisfactory, but the team still have my utmost faith and support.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Having a insta wavedash button for people who are too lazy to probably put on pants in the morning is a bad idea.

Not only that, but anyone out there could perform a wavedash regardless of how skilled they are.

Which, when you've practiced hours upon hours perfecting it, seems unfair. The wavedash needs to be reserved to those who take their game seriously and put forth some type of effort to be good at it.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Which, when you've practiced hours upon hours perfecting it, seems unfair. The wavedash needs to be reserved to those who take their game seriously and put forth some type of effort to be good at it.

The sad part is that wavedashing actually requires less inputs that pikachus recovery.

 

[AlphaZealot]

The funny thing about all the complaining about wavedashing is simply this: If they take wavedashing out, all the good players will simply pivot instead, which, while not as useful with all characters, is essentially the same thing but better and more difficult.

 

[raphtmarqui]

^Now pivoting is actually a difficult technique, but ur right that people would use it as a substitute

 

[RapeFalcon]

I'm sure Brawl is gonna be the same since they confirmed in a pic of pikachu that air dodging is in the game, which means there will be wavedashing, teching/ wall teching is mostly gon be in that too. As for the new stuff I wasn't looking forward to any new chars until Pokemon trainer (Charizard) was confirmed. But in the trailers they showed crawling. . . I dont know bout that but, the game hopefully will be the same.

 

[KarnIge WoLF]

No one dude it's gonna be ***** good, this thread is trash.

 

[specialsauce]

No one dude it's gonna be ***** good, this thread is trash.

i agree Brawl is gonna rock our socks off for sure!

 

[Adi]

Not only would pivoting just be a harder alternative, the balance between the low and high tiers would increase anymore since a majority of the low tiers have ****ty dashes and they use wavelanding a lot in their gameplay.

 

[TheZizz]

Furthermore, if there was a button for it, the WD would go the same distance each time. The awesome thing about the WD in melee is that you can control it depending on the angle of your control stick. Having a insta wavedash button for people who are too lazy to probably put on pants in the morning is a bad idea.

Easy solution, let it be executed the same way as a rolling dodge except with various downward angles.

 

[psicicle]

The funny thing about all the complaining about wavedashing is simply this: If they take wavedashing out, all the good players will simply pivot instead, which, while not as useful with all characters, is essentially the same thing but better and more difficult.

Yeah, except there are chararacters with shorter pivots than wavedashes, and ganon's cool looking waveland game is gone although it might not be in anyway.