Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?

[Seth'White Fox']

This is SUPOSSED to be a thred about Brawl potentially sucking yes, but it seems that most of it is eaither: someone discussing wavedashing, Dylan calling just about everyone a "n3wb", someone standing up to Dylan for said "n3wbs", and me pleading for everyone to get on topic or find a new one.

Does that catch ya up, zerosin?

 

[zerosin]

well lack of techs would make brawl suck (well, certain techs). most noteworthy, of course, was the sh, an important factor in today's game.
oh, and, yeah, thanks.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You know, maybe you're right. We shouldn't let these CASUAL PLAYERS run rampant on MY SMASHBOARDS, those SILLY NOOBZ with their MOVING STAGES and ITEMS and oh god, PLAYING a VIDEO GAME for FUN (where fun=not competitive, how UNTHINKABLE)! Actually, we should DENY noobz the RIGHT to PLAY the GAME, because ALL OF THEM are a LOST CAUSE! While we're at it, we should stop letting kids READ for PLEASURE because half of them won't become ENGLISH MAJORS ANYWAY, and CUT OFF THEIR LEGS if they refuse to participate in COMPETITIVE POWERWALKING.

Well, no ****. Noobs in all aspects of life should die. As the classic phrase goes that I picked up from some poster on these boards

''Noob. Go die''

Utterly brilliant. It was a response to someone asking if shffling and wavedashing were ovverated.

 

[Overswarm]

I have another fear to add to my list.

The people posting in this thread are going to be playing online with me.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I have another fear to add to my list.

The people posting in this thread are going to be playing online with me.

I don't see what there is to be afraid of. By the sounds of it 90% of the people who browse the brawl forums have no idea how to play melee so they'd just be 4 stock material.

 

[zerosin]

''Noob. Go die''

Utterly brilliant. It was a response to someone asking if shffling and wavedashing were ovverated.

SHFFLing - no. WDing - unless you're aniki or as good (so basically, er, no one), no.
Next.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

SHFFLing - no. WDing - unless you're aniki or as good (so basically, er, no one), no.
Next.

Haha, EXACTLY. Everyone on youtube brings up the point

''But ANiki duzn't Wavedash so u dont have 2 wd to be pro so dat means im good 2''

And my point is always ''You're not aniki. Good luck competing without wavedashing''

 

[rsc_390]

i'm nervous, but also pretty confident in Sakurai as well and thus excited. Personally, I think we can live without wavedashing. I really hope you don't break your game b/c it isn't in Brawl Dylan. I mean don't get me wrong, its mad cool and I do it non-stop (probably a bit too much since my friends don't, giving me the opportunity to abuse it), but it's not absolutely required to make the game enjoyable.

I'm not going to go into it, but have you read the threads about being able to roll off the edge into an edgehog, and Metaknight's strange landing? I wouldn't mind them taking out wavedashing if they replaced its cooler uses.

Another thing. Rather than being nervous about what you're going to lose (which likely won't be too much), shouldn't we be excited about all the things we're going to gain? Everyone knows there's a massive amount of things Melee added that make it flat out superior to SSB. Imagine what new stuff they're gonna come up with, and imagine what new stuff we're gonna discover!

To be honest, if there's anything I'm nervous about, its the new glitches/exploitations that come with the game. So far we've been lucky that in general adv. techs aren't ridiculously game breaking. What'll happen when we get something random like pressing down on the D-Pad makes everybody on the screen instantly die?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

To everyone who was asking for it :

http://linux2-cs.johnabbott.qc.ca/~cs126F06_9/STYD2/styd2pools.htm

--- Pool results from my tourney (I'm in pool G) 6 points, not too shabby at least I advanced.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2164529

--- Results

Ill post the videos when theyre up.

 

[zerosin]

i'm nervous, but also pretty confident in Sakurai as well and thus excited. Personally, I think we can live without wavedashing. I really hope you don't break your game b/c it isn't in Brawl Dylan. I mean don't get me wrong, its mad cool and I do it non-stop (probably a bit too much since my friends don't, giving me the opportunity to abuse it), but it's not absolutely required to make the game enjoyable.

I'm not going to go into it, but have you read the threads about being able to roll off the edge into an edgehog, and Metaknight's strange landing? I wouldn't mind them taking out wavedashing if they replaced its cooler uses.

Another thing. Rather than being nervous about what you're going to lose (which likely won't be too much), shouldn't we be excited about all the things we're going to gain? Everyone knows there's a massive amount of things Melee added that make it flat out superior to SSB. Imagine what new stuff they're gonna come up with, and imagine what new stuff we're gonna discover!

To be honest, if there's anything I'm nervous about, its the new glitches/exploitations that come with the game. So far we've been lucky that in general adv. techs aren't ridiculously game breaking. What'll happen when we get something random like pressing down on the D-Pad makes everybody on the screen instantly die?

That'd be funny until my noobish friends knew how to kill me all the time.
But seriously, I'm overly excited for the new characters. Getting rid of WD won't make the game crappy. Taking out parts that have stuck with the game since SSB (l-cancel for example) could really hurt brawl. I would love to see a new way to edgehog quick. That roll of the edge sounds like a quasi-moonwalk without the M. Jackson skills that C. Falcon has.
And there's always the super moves, controversial in their own right (they have a thread of its own, so no yelling about it here). Sakurai's introducing a lot of things; anything could happen.

 

[Wolf_FTW]

Iv gotten woried that they would take out wavedshing seeing as its not even really suppost to exsist in the first place. If brawl sucks ill just keep on playn melee

 

[Adi]

I doubt they'll take shffling out, it's been around since the first game.

 

[SmashChu]

You *****' idiot. When did I say I only played FD? I would get owned on platforms. Stop assuming things to enhance a point you don't even have to begin with.

It was a general statement to make a point. FD is played a lot in tourneys, and as such is the poster boy for Tourney courses.

Stop comparing Melee to mario kart. Annnnd you're completly wrong. I bet your parents dropped you a few times as a child.

1)Insults are not nessiary. Makes you look stupid
2)I was comapiring Snaking to Wavedashing as they are two glitches(maybe not snaking) that are overly exploited and take the fun out of the game.

Not everyone who plays with items are noobs. People who think items should be in tourneys are noobs. Catching items happens in any vs link or vs peach matchup ANYWAY.

So why can't items be in tourneys? Hammer comes down. Counter it! Theres ways to get around it. So, you can stop Hammer so now there no longer cheap.

It's like in Pokemon with explosion team(pokemon that just uuse explosion). How could you stop it. Quagesire has an ability to prevent it. Or Protect can block it. See. Theres a counter for everything.

I bet a cat could 4 stock you.

Your point

[/QUOTE]
Sorry to piss you off and start a flam war(I'm trying not to, sorry), but you must look into another world. You almost put Melee on some kind of godly pedistal.

Videogames are entertainment. If tourney play makes you happy, then go ahead. However, this doesn't mean that everyone else is a nub. Tournys maybe a bit fun with something original. Dont complain about the item. Counter it.

 

[linkw00t]

Well, WD'ing, if you practice it with your main, is really, really easy. I don't see the big deal why n00bs can't do it? SHFFL'ing is WAY harder than WD/Wavelanding. I main Marth and Second Y.Link so WD'ing is a decent part of my game, but not so much as mindgames and some of my SHFFL combos as Marth. I had a LOT of fun with Melee before I got my *** handed to me by a friend of a friend, so I went online to improve my game, and found out about tiers, and cancelled my Roy main and jumped on Marth, and learned SHFFL and WD.

I don't want Brawl to be too similar to Melee, it gets really boring and I really need some new MECHANIC changes, not just Brawl being an upgrade. I think it will be great even if it doesn't have WD. I mean think about it, didn't you enjoy the game before you could WD? Back in 01' when the game first came out everyone loved it just as much or more than they do with advanced techs. Melee would still be a good game without WD. Hands down. If you argue that then you should be shot.

And also seriously, flaming on people doesn't help point your opinion across. Because if you're not careful you'll cause a flame war with someone who would verbally pwn the **** out of your soul. Don't pick on the people with less than brilliant ideas/paragraph writing. It's really immature. No one seems to be impressed by your insults. It just seems a little 7th gradish, that whole public humiliation thing for kudos and such.

Anyway, come on now people...someone post something to get Dylan fired up about and have another flame session. Let's keep it interesting.

EAT MAH BALZ!

 

[Zook]

 

[FrozenFire13]

I'm just curious... how is WDing SO important? I can do it and all, but I don't really understand the whole advantage of doing it thing. Anyone wanna elaborate?

 

[Overswarm]

I'm just curious... how is WDing SO important? I can do it and all, but I don't really understand the whole advantage of doing it thing. Anyone wanna elaborate?

Greater mobility = greater options = greater mindgames = greater skill

 

[Ikural]

when you figure out how to apply it to your game you will be a much better smasher.

At first, everyone thinks its useless. Just try to apply it. Maybe while rushing, wavedash away then while your opponent is suffering lag from an attack wavedash in and smash.

But thats a simple solution

 

[Red Exodus]

Red Exodus, I like you being so calm when Dylan's seemingly trying to entice you into a flame war...

Dylan, he never said he could beat you. He never said he could beat anyone of us here, he merely stated that he needs more people down where he lives to play against him. And 'good' is a relative term, or at least in this situation. He's 'good' for where he lives, where as other places, he might not be as good, no offense meant, Ex.

None taken. I guess that anger management I goot a while ago is working.

Dam this thread moves fast, I'm lost again.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Wavedashing is the "poster tech" for marginally skilled Smashers. Because it looks flashy people often assume their mastery of this simple tech makes them good, when it does not. It can definitely improve your game, but I've seen plenty of people who wavedash into fsmashes, air-dodge off the stage, etc., because they are more concerned with being flashy than playing smart.

L-cancelling and SHFFLING are much more significant techs than wavedashing for most characters. I'll be a lot more pissed if they remove L-cancelling or dash-dancing than wavedashing. Then again, I main Captain Falcon.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Smashchu :


Well, I got 4 infractions last night. So I'm not going to even bother replying because theres no point if I can't insult your obvious lack of common sense towards Melee.

In any case, you're wrong.

 

[rsc_390]

It was a general statement to make a point. FD is played a lot in tourneys, and as such is the poster boy for Tourney courses.


1)Insults are not nessiary. Makes you look stupid
2)I was comapiring Snaking to Wavedashing as they are two glitches(maybe not snaking) that are overly exploited and take the fun out of the game.


So why can't items be in tourneys? Hammer comes down. Counter it! Theres ways to get around it. So, you can stop Hammer so now there no longer cheap.

It's like in Pokemon with explosion team(pokemon that just uuse explosion). How could you stop it. Quagesire has an ability to prevent it. Or Protect can block it. See. Theres a counter for everything.


Your point

Sorry to piss you off and start a flam war(I'm trying not to, sorry), but you must look into another world. You almost put Melee on some kind of godly pedistal.

Videogames are entertainment. If tourney play makes you happy, then go ahead. However, this doesn't mean that everyone else is a nub. Tournys maybe a bit fun with something original. Dont complain about the item. Counter it.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you are arguing in a mature manner, unlike Dylan, but i'm gonna have to agree with him on some points anyway.

Someone in another thread put it very nicely, but i'll try and explain to you why Items shouldn't be in tournaments.

They take away from the skill of the game and add in too many luck factors. Personally i hate anything that has to do with luck, including Luigi's forward B + Game + Watch's judgement hammer. The fact is, if a Lugia pokeball lands right next to your opponent, then you're being screwed over purley because of luck. Had the pokeball landed near you, things would be different.

Next, many itmes favor certain characters (like the way Metal favors Peach). Thus, although they help the balance by giving everyone projectiles to counter that piss-off annoying missile-spammer, they ruin the balance by giving people random advantages.

Now for the main and most important reason. If ANY SINGLE ITEM is turned on, then you have falling boxes. If you are charging a smash because you know your opponent is going to land there (b/c of your mindgames and his/her predictability), would it be fair of a box or bob-omb all of sudden appeared and you were forced to hit that? How could it be fair that you are being punished for your careful mindgames + predictions?! As far as I know, you cannot cancel a smash once its being charged, nor do you know for sure where an exploding box will appear. Thus, this problem cannot be countered.

There are many other reasons, but hopefully you understand by now that by adding such a huge luck factor, you are taking away from the skill, which lowers the fun of competition.

Oh, and by the way, wavedashing does not take the fun out of the game, it adds to it ^_^

 

[Sensai]

Overswarm: I know exactly what you mean. This is the reason why I would understand Nintendo not having some ability to voice chat with others.

Four infractions? Wow. That's quite an accomplishment, my friend.

SmashChu: Items aren't used in tournaments because (this is the real reason, BTW) it causes too many people to complain. That's why the rules are so uniform: 4 stock, only these levels, time, etc. If they take away everything that someone could possibly complain about, then there's no need for anyone to complain about anything except about how badly they play.

 

[Ikural]

Poeple want loses or wins to depend on skill or lack of.
NOT luck!
rsc 390 put it exactly the right way.
fair isnt it?
Last life you are at 150+ damage and get a HUGE combo going
while comboing the **** out of someone, a bomb-omb lands as you smash attack your opponent and kills you at the side WHILE your apponent is flying to become a star.
I admire skill involed in that what skill...
no one would care about matches if the were 40%skill and 60% luck.
POKER has more skill involved then that.
Items in competitive play is sad.
everytime i see someone who wants that, a little peice of me dies...

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Four infractions? Wow. That's quite an accomplishment, my friend.

Not really. Seems like you get an infraction here unless you're over the top sugar sweet super super super uber nice to newbies.

Hey noobs, say thanks to the mods. They're here to protect you afterall. But nothing is ever going to change the fact that I could 4 stock each, and every one of you. I may not be able to post my honnest opinions due to politically correct attitudes which only serve the purpose of further opressing the poseters of this community. But you guys still suck hard. Especially you smashchu.

Yay for having to be nice to everyone regardless of conflicting opinions and others not knowing how to play super smash brothers! Yay for not being able to be honnest. Yay for modzis.

 

[Ikural]

im going to say that is probobly 5 or 6 now

 

[dizzy]

Yay for having to be nice to everyone regardless of conflicting opinions

Welcome to the real world, where the ability to insult people courteously and without expletives is considered a virtue.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Welcome to the real world, where the ability to insult people courteously and without expletives is considered a virtue.

8. Very Important If a topic is spam, or it was posted in the wrong forum, DO NOT post anything along the lines of The Moderators for the room will take care of it. Even if it isn't spam, just a topic that doesn't need to be there, don't post anything like "closes" in it. Also, DO NOT correct someone and tell them the rules. If we catch you doing this, you'll be in big trouble. This is probably our most-broken rule on the boards, and oftentimes people correct a "Spammer" while breaking a rule at the same time. Examples of things not to post:

a. You're stupid!
b. Get outta here, spammer!
c. This is in the wrong room!
d. This is going to get closed.
e. You're in trouble!
f. Can't you read the rules?
g. *tries to close, fails*
h. *closes*

Seems even if you're polite you get ****ed in the *** round these parts. If someone decided to call me every swear word in the book, and I say ''Can't you read the rules'' I'm going to get banned. Great, very fair indeed.

 

[rsc_390]

SmashChu: Items aren't used in tournaments because (this is the real reason, BTW) it causes too many people to complain. That's why the rules are so uniform: 4 stock, only these levels, time, etc. If they take away everything that someone could possibly complain about, then there's no need for anyone to complain about anything except about how badly they play.

Y'know, I thought my reason was logical, but when I think about it, your reason probably IS why items aren't on.

 

[Superstar]

Well, I surely hope they do not take out any advanced techs, but they might. I really enjoy the wavedash, but it might have to go away. What I REALLY want to stay is the SHFFL and waveland, but then again, if no wavedash, then no waveland...

Well, Dylan_Tnga, if there were no wavedash, you say you will not play Brawl tournaments, eh? Hmm, well, your argument makes sense, but then maybe after a while, some new tech better than the Wavedash might appear, that shows even MORE skill. Maybe then you would play in a Brawl tournament [MAYBE, we can never predict the future].

I myself, if given permission to go to tournaments, would keep playing Melee in tournaments for a while, and wait for the Brawl metagame to improve before entering them. Of course, I LOVE the wavedash [really helps Mario's approach, and spacing], but if it is taken away, I might have to deal with it, and move on.

Also, even though I do not go to tournaments, I do not like items. I seem to have a plague of bad karma, and luck is almost NEVER on my side. Them klap traps are EVIL!!

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Yup sensai hit it on the head. Id also like to add in that Items unbalance the game.

Well, Dylan_Tnga, if there were no wavedash, you say you will not play Brawl tournaments, eh?

Well it's not a sob story. Im perfectly fine playing melee, Its by far my favorite video game EVER. 2nd best game ever made after starcraft broodwar, the most balanced and perfect game of all time(so much so that they hold olympics for it).

I dunno man, I think id rather be pro at melee than at brawl. and despite my intense training Im still 3 stocked by the best players in Canada, and also by some of the more advanced players there. I'm pretty much in the middle I dont suck, and im slightly above the average smasher at the tourneys, hence why I made it out of my pools but as it stands Ill never progress to quarter finals even.

So with so much left to learn in melee, id probably rather focus on that.

 

[cradmazy_SKAG]

man im nervous about brawl potentially sucking.

with all the hype about tiers, its easy forget how uber-balanced super smash bros melee is in the first place.

you can win with every character. matches are determined precisely on player skill. what more can u ask for in a fighting game??

i hope brawl is not slow and clunky... and the hitboxes are still as diverse as they are in melee.

 

[Ikural]

If Brawl sucks then nintendo might make a melee online expansion.
that would rock.

 

[Sensai]

Dylan: Yep, SC is a great game. Starcraft is televised in South Korea, and it's bigger then anything we have here.

I imagine if SC2 was announced, the entire country of South Korea would explode in celebration.

 

[Superstar]

So with so much left to learn in melee, id probably rather focus on that.

That's basically my approach right now. Why get so hung up over Brawl that I forget to play Melee? I really want to be 4-stocked someday, but I can't since Melee isn't online, and I can't get rides/permissions to go to a smashfest, I have to settle with playing with my brother. That's the reason I am extremely hyped about Brawl, to have a chance to play with more people.

Of course, I am REALLY hoping the wavedash stays, or at least becomes easier to perform. The most skillful part of the wavedashing is not in the technique, but in the application. You could give it to a new player, but they won't be able to do ANYTHING with the wavedash without practice.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

That's basically my approach right now. Why get so hung up over Brawl that I forget to play Melee? I really want to be 4-stocked someday, but I can't since Melee isn't online, and I can't get rides/permissions to go to a smashfest, I have to settle with playing with my brother. That's the reason I am extremely hyped about Brawl, to have a chance to play with more people.

Of course, I am REALLY hoping the wavedash stays, or at least becomes easier to perform. The most skillful part of the wavedashing is not in the technique, but in the application. You could give it to a new player, but they won't be able to do ANYTHING with the wavedash without practice.

I really dont care if wavedashing is easier. Its so simple to me its like breathing. Its a **** of a lot easier to do than perfect shffling which I have also mastered. Like you said its in the implication, not the technique itself. Its just sliding afterall.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Not really. Seems like you get an infraction here unless you're over the top sugar sweet super super super uber nice to newbies.

Hey noobs, say thanks to the mods. They're here to protect you afterall. But nothing is ever going to change the fact that I could 4 stock each, and every one of you. I may not be able to post my honnest opinions due to politically correct attitudes which only serve the purpose of further opressing the poseters of this community. But you guys still suck hard. Especially you smashchu.

Yay for having to be nice to everyone regardless of conflicting opinions and others not knowing how to play super smash brothers! Yay for not being able to be honnest. Yay for modzis.

Says the guy who, although he MAINS SHEIK, thought Sheik could chainthrow Marth from 0 to 100+

Hey Dylan--you're a noob compared to many of us. Most of the people here just aren't *******es about it. You've been here one week and you're already close to getting banned. Keep it up.

And Smashchu probably does suck, but that's beside the point.

 

[intensezkramer1993]

OFF TOPIC SUBJECT BEGINS HERE
Please realize I am not a noob and I don't tolerate being called one. I think I'm in the intermediate range if I were to be classified. Just because it says I'm a smash noob, doesn't mean I am one.



Yeah. For a long time, I thought Wavedashing was hard. I actually pissed me off that it turned out to be to just short hop and air dodge diagonally towards the ground. I was thinking at the first time I saw pro smashers fight, "What the hell are they doing? It looks like there just jumping everywhere doing absolutely nothing. One holds a shield, attacks, then the other guy attempts an attack, the other guy puts up his shield. Then, they just jump all over the screen. When they are moving, what the hell is that? Are they staying in place?"

Now I realize that there are "mind games" and "strategy" to this game. I feel that this game shouldn't be meant for things like that. I mean, if I could and a tournament was actually "nearby" to me, then maybe I would attempt a tournament for experience. When my friends and I play, we don't go like "Oh, maybe if I kill myself once, and then barrel roll towards my friend, I could confuse him." No, that's just plain ********.

Yes, it does require skill to play SSBM, but it doesn't require a huge amount of it. My first paragraph is an example. Just because someone doesn't know how to do something, doesn't mean everyone should react like "Oh, you're a total noob. You don't deserve to play this game," and "OMGZ!!! NO WDS!!! LOLZ!!! NUB!!!" Wavedashing isn't hard, everyone makes it hard. I have read at least three different FAQS on Wavedashing, and all it did was confuse me.

All you do is short hop and air dodge diagonally towards the ground.

This pretty much sums it up on how to wavedash. That's it. Not like two freaking paragraphs on wavedashing is needed. My point? Well, two points. The first is that some people find games like this fun and not for money. The other is that some things should just be summed up instead of being too descriptive and telling people how to do it a complicated way. Those kids, I consider noobs.

I realize that kids do get money from tournaments. I stated before that if I could, I would go to tournaments. I do eye things that I want, but don't have the money for. Tournaments are good for things like that. I realize that this game is for fun, and I do like it. My little brother and I have been really wanting to go to a tournament, but my parents aren't the type to drive us there. They feel that I should practice my golf skills and become a professional golfer. Anyway, The one I really want to go to is somewhere in Brandon. Sorry, don't remember the name of the tournament, but it is in March.

Dylan, I'm sorry, but you're a total noob to tell other people how badly you can beat them, and how badly they suck. Dude, be mature and treat everyone with respect, even noobs. I agree with every single person that posts "Dylan is a noob." Just don't be quick to make opinions. Think when posting.

OFF TOPIC SUBJECT ENDS HERE

Now for the discussion on Brawl, I'm nervous about it too. All these questions come to my mind like "Will it suck?" or "What if some of my favorite characters aren't in it?". Well, we'll just find out about this when it's released to your individual country, right?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Says the guy who, although he MAINS SHEIK, thought Sheik could chainthrow Marth from 0 to 100+

Hey Dylan--you're a noob compared to many of us. Most of the people here just aren't *******es about it. You've been here one week and you're already close to getting banned. Keep it up.

And Smashchu probably does suck, but that's beside the point.

Yeah I was wrong about the shiek vs marth thing. Wayyy wrong. I'm NOT a scrub so Im not going to complain about that. I was wrong, and an idiot, but unlike smashchu I'm the kind of person that will admit hes wrong and try to be less of an idiot.

Yeah, ok I've been playing this game 3+ years, mastered all my techs, and could beat almost half of the people at the tourney on saturday, and I won a money match. But I'm a noob... riiiiiiiiight. I'm not the best player ever but I'm FAR from being a noob.

Nice try though, unless you guys are as good as the high calibur players Bam, Vwins, Chet, Testrider, Vodka and the like I think Id stand a chance to at least take a few stocks off ya or even win.

 

[mario-man]

Yeah, as far as skill goes I'm probably more of a n00b than Dylan, but I don't hear a thing about me being a n00b, do I now!!!!!!!