Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?

[~rh]

This thread is pitiful.

 

[Onifrio]

Does anything positive come from Dylan?

 

[cyberdemon]

This thread is pitiful.

The whole Brawl forum is pitiful

what does it matter what this thread is about, brawl discussion is mostly random speculation and spam. until the game comes out this is a cluster**** or retardedness

QFT

 

[~rh]

The whole Brawl forum is pitiful

Indeed it is... I should stop poking in here periodically and come back when civilized discussion about how the game plays when it is released arises... though I have my doubts even on that.

 

[Johnknight1]

Originally Posted by the Still Super Awsome Y34HDUD3!!!
LOL, "the Super Awesome Y34HDUD3!!!"= I'm flattered. :embarrass
You, too, are Super Awesome. Now that I think of it, We all are SUPER AWESOME!!!!
This is the thread of the SUPER AWESOMES!!!!

Solid Snake owns that and much more too . By looking at your sig I take it that you want WW Link in amirite? I've always supported the idea, unless it ends up being a clone of adult Link.

And it seems that every person that joined in February of this year has more posts than me.
I guess y'all liked the Boards alot!

Well you are super awsome, lol! I am too=ty! :embarrass And this thread is super awsome=is flammed less than most of the Brawl discussion. Heck, everyone who posts here and doesn't say "WD is for n00bs only" is super awsome!

As for WW Link...I sorta want him as a Luigified clone, ya know. That way more characters could be made, but he'd basically be like YLink, but shorter, a little bit altered grab, with some original B moves (Basically every1 except Bup, in which remains the YLink way, and nB, in which adult Link's and WW Link bow firing is diffrent), and pretty much the same A moves, but a little altered like Luigi. Thus, we have a awsome new character, but sorta the same since YLink was in Melee. Thus, he is a clo-riginal, lol!

O, and Solid Snake does own. I still love how in the first WW dungeon (the Forsaken Fortress) you have to sneak around in a barell, like Snake does in his box, lol. In MGS4 apparently Snake can hide in barells as well, and roll in them. It is like they both stole each other's moves and stealth skills, lol!

HEHE, wat can I say I'm a smash addict, lol! Must have joined a good month group or something. Smash ftw=disagree with this (other than as a joke) on the SWF, and beware of my Kaillera leave message ("Solid Snake just slit your throat!"). O, and pie still owns anyday, pecan pie for super god tier, lol!

Originally Posted by the also Super Awsome mario-man
Yep, sure did.
Of course, I have alot of posts like this one. Short, sweet, and to the point.

Reply 3000!!!
w00t w00t!!!!!
Congratz Dylan!!!!!!

Of course, I have plenty of long thought out posts too..........let's keep it evened out now children. Lol

Alrite, over 3,000 posts Dylan=congratulations are in order, since you deserve it for making the best no topic thread ever! Yae no topic, at all! Only problem is most my posts are either about normal length, to super super long, lol! Wat can I say, lol I type a lot!

Ryu Hikaru
This thread is pitiful.

Why, because the only flams come from the "WD is for hakcrs only" n00bs, or because we have no topic=??? If it was like 90% of the rest of the Brawl Discussion section, then half the comments would be totally retarted. Honestly, we're just on a thread with no topic, talking about the randomest awsomest crap. Who cares if it is always off topic, and never had a topic to begin with, it's still a "Super Awsome" thread! Plus I get to show off my "Super Awsome" sig, which I'll remake to make it look even more "Super Awsome", lol. Word overuse, I think not! "grin:

Does anything positive come from Dylan?

Why would we be in a thread started by a "super" negative person, lol=??? You fail, you obviously missed when he asked NES N00b to have his babies=hilarious, lol!

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

Beleted for bad words and spam

-Kokichi

 

[Red Exodus]

I don't see anything. Anyway, I found out why Snake made it to brawl... .... ....

Because he owns. I played MGS3 this week and beat it twice, once by killing the bosses normally and the second time by stamina kills [tranq kills]. I love this game, Snake FTW.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

How come you don't see anything??
Maybe you did it wrong, it worked for me.

 

[Flare233]

I see my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

 

[Red Exodus]

My brain doesn't function well at 3 in the morning, that could be it. I normally see optical illusions very well. I even went to a site full of optical illusions like one where this animated man was walking up a stairwell that was kinda like this: [], I'd post the page but my stupid computer deleted every single bookmark I had.


Anyway, can you guys solve this optical illusion?

=p I want a 3d shadow too.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

LOLOLOLOL!

At first I didn't get why they would put an identical Samus at her back and the real Dark Samus over there... But the one at Samus' back must be how her suit looks when she goes overdrive mode.

And watch out, I have Kokichi on my tail, so he might come and check new posts later. Dunno if you want to delete that one.

 

[Shai Hulud]

This is why I hate popular threads, they just become this big because of worthless posts, please stop

I know this is one too, but this is for the greater good

Actually for a long time it was growing because of active debate. It's only in the last week or two that it's become pure spam.

 

[Johnknight1]

Originally Posted by the Also Super Awsome Red Exodus
I don't see anything. Anyway, I found out why Snake made it to brawl... .... ....

Because he owns. I played MGS3 this week and beat it twice, once by killing the bosses normally and the second time by stamina kills [tranq kills]. I love this game, Snake FTW.

I idd the same thing this week, bought it, beat it on normal then hard, and I love it=strange! Actually I tranqed killed all the bosses both times through, and The End is like the best boss battle since Ganon in ALTTP. Sure that was Naked Snake in MGS3, but Solid Snake is 10 times the awsome.

You gotta love that ending!

Spoiler

Proof that Ocelot is the ultimate master of the mindgames, and proof that Snake's real name is awsome, lol I should know!

Seriously, MGS3 pwned so much I'm planning on getting Twin Snakes for the GC (the original MGS remake), and MGS2 for the PS2 (even if I played MGS2 like 3 years ago=borrowed it from a friend, but don't remeber that much). Maybe once I'm done beating Devil May Cry 1, 2, and 3 I'll get those games, and get hooked on them as well. I've yet to play Snake vs. Monkey, but I probably will soon. Too bad MGS3's expasion Subistiance's online went down 3 months ago, I was gonna get it just to play MGS3 online. *prays MGS4 comes to the 360*

O, and it took me like 3 minutes to solve the optical illusion, lol!

 

[_Phloat_]

Not only is this thread worthless spam, but it is totally awesome, i mean, if you want to talk about anything brawl and have people see it, this is the place to go

I really hope brawl doesn't suck, that would... suck

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

Nah, the thread has almost 2 months in this state. Maybe more.

**** weekends... No updates....

 

[Johnknight1]

Nah, the thread has almost 2 months in this state. Maybe more.

**** weekends... No updates....

And let it remain that way....FOREVER *evil laugh*

The weekend is only bad now because:
1.It is summer no break from school, and no Brawl update...grhhh...need to see..MEGAMAN!!! Nothing beats yelling Megaman, lol, plus he owns!
2.Do you actually need another reason=???

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

And let it remain that way....FOREVER *evil laugh*

I wish God hears you. *not so evil laugh*

The weekend is only bad now because:
1.It is summer no break from school, and no Brawl update...grhhh...need to see..MEGAMAN!!! Nothing beats yelling Megaman, lol, plus he owns!
2.Do you actually need another reason=???

I know what beats yelling Megaman!!

BUTTSCRATCHA!?!?!?!

 

[Johnknight1]

Originally Posted by the Super Awsome Y34HDUD3!!!
I wish God hears you. *not so evil laugh*

I do too! *super evil laugh* I wish God could hear you too...not just because you are SUPER AWSOME, but becaue you support Wind Waker Link too, lol!

Also Originally Posted by the Super Awsome Y3HDUD3!!!I know what beats yelling Megaman!!

BUTTSCRATCHA!?!?!?!

Buttscrathcher!!!! I would totally yell that as my job, lol!

 

[Professor Pro]

i dont think brawl will suck because i think that the nintendo people know what the public want for SSBB

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

@ John: Yeah, me too! Wish they really made some....

And here's another Pic, but I'm just goin to put the url:

Army Baby!!1!

Pic #1

LMAO!!!

Another one.

Pic#2



And I'm going on a trip for next week, so I dunno if I'm gonna be able to talk with y'all.

Yeah, I'll be back next sunday. Later.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Whoa... almost fell to the second page there.

ON TOPIC: and wavedashing is the shiz, they won't take it out.

 

[xyouxarexuglyx2]

Maybe a little nervous about it, but not too bad. As you said, I trust Nintendo and I hope that they won't change the game too much, although you do have to change it, otherwise you will just be releasing Melee again with new characters and better graphics.

That's exactly what I hope for it to be.

 

[Wiseguy]

Hey there Dylan_Tnga. Remember me? You were kind enough to drop in on my Brawl Predictions thread a while back, so I thought I'd pay you a visit as well. It's only fair.

Congrats on having such a successful thread. And I thought mine was huge...

Hey everyone, I just signed up today but I've been reading these boards for awhile, watched most of the combo videos and have been smashing for a fair few years. (just in case you're wondering who the random new poster is) Don't worry though I'm not just some gay nub, I've smashed with a few of the best players on these forums

So, down to the topic at hand. As Brawl's release date steadily approaches, I begin to grow more and more anxious.

Let me start by saying that I think Super Smash Brothers Melee, is PERFECT. It is an amazing game that I can play for 10 hours a day 1-3 times a week and never get bored of.

This is one area that you and I see eye to eye on Tnga. There are plenty of games that I love, but Melee is my far my favorite and I personally consider it to be nothing short of the greatest games of all time. As long as you have other human beings to play against, I don't see how the franic and fun kill-or-be-killed action of Super Smash Bros Melee can ever get old.

However, I would also argue that there is also room for improvement - even with a brilliant game like Melee. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Let me go through the points in your first post.

With that said these are my hopes for SSBB :

Same game speed. Same techs (maybe a few ones, but for the love of god dont remove what we had in melee)

I'm a little torn here. I've grown to love Melee's frantic pace, but I also have fond memories of Super Smash Bros 64's somewhat slower gameplay - which I felt emphasized strategy over reflexes. Personally, I'd prefer it if the pacing of the gameplay were somewhere between SSB64 and Melee as that might be the best of both worlds.

One thing seems for certain: the speed of the game will be changed, though how drastically remains to be seen. Here's a quote from Saumerai Panda's translation thread:

Sakurai said in response to a person complaining that SSBM is too fast: "Don't worry, the speed of the game will "be moderated" a little bit. When I asked "Could we allow more freedom in the aerial battles?" Everyone on my team agreed, so we are refining every character's ability from the very beginning"

Which personally leads me to believe that the changed dynamics of air combat will change the speed of the game (and since air combat is naturally a bit slower than land combat, as more of the game focuses in the air, the speed would be altered).

So there you go. Pretty cut and dry. For what it's worth, after watching the trailers, the speed doesn't appear to be much slower at all (though we may notice a difference once we actually get our hands on it) however, there does appear to be a greater emphasis on ariel attacks.

My point: Brawl's gameplay will most likely feel very similar to Melee's - but also have enough tweaks that it will also feel like a whole new game. Whether these changes are for the better is uncertain, but I'm betting that they will make the game feel tighter, more polished and, ultimately, more fun.

Change The character movesets and weights and tractions(just like classic smash ----> melee)

I'm for change, as long as it is for the better. Characters like Ganondorf, for example, I would like to see given a completely new moveset.

I also feel that some of the characters stats should be adjusted to make the game more balanced. Making low tier characters more competeive is undoubtebly one of Sakurai's priorities: the goal being to bring characters like Donkey Kong and Kirby up to the same level as more balanced characters like Mario and Link.

Likewise, certian characters need to be nerfed in order to make the game more balanced.
Don't get me wrong: as fighting games go, Melee is exceptonally balanced and 9 times out of 10 skill trumps character selection. However, it is undeniable that the highest tier characters give the player a significant advantage when fighting against an equally skilled opponent using a non-high tier character. The goal should be to make all the characters equally matched, so that two equally skilled players can pick any two characters (Bowser and Fox, for example) without either character haing a significant advantage.

Peach, for example, might only require a nerfing of her down-smash in order to make her balanced. Most of Captain Falcon's attacks should be be made faster and more powerful, while his infamous knee attack should be nerfed. Assuming for the moment that Fox, Falco, Marth and Sheik all return - they need to be nerfed in a big way. Bringing these character down to the level of Mario and Link would eliminate the advantage that these characters have over all non-high tier characters and make the game much more balanced.

In the basics, thats what i want. I dont give a **** about items, or stages. Im sure theyll do a great job on the stages and I cant even remember what the items in smash ARE anymore its been that long.

Well, I guess this is where we differ. I consider the inventive stages to be one of the best aspects of Super Smash Bros (though I still want a bare bones, Final Destination-esque map for grudge matches). Fortunately, all the stages revealed thus far look stunning and brilliantly designed.

As for items, I'm probably one of the only people on the planet who loves them. In my view, items add another layer of skill and strategy to the experience and it saddens me that almost everyone insists on playing without them. Hopefully, the new items in Brawl will convince more Smashers to leave them on - at least during casual free play matches.

And of course the question on everyones mind : Will wavedashing be in Brawl?

Here's my take on wavedashing:

1) Wavedashing was not intentionally programed into Melee by the Smash. It is a glitch that was discovered by the players after its release.

2) However, that is irrelivant. Wavedashing is a legitament tactic becuase it can be pulled off without altering the game in anyway. Although I'm not very good at it, I respect players who are skilled enough to master the art of the wavedash.

3) Wavedashing may or may not be possible in Brawl. It all depends how drastically they alter the Melee engine for Brawl and whether or not Sakurai and team intentionally remove wavedashing.

4) However, this too is irrelivant. If wavedashing is removed for Brawl, skilled players will find new "hidden" techniques to give them an edge in competitive play.

5)Regardless, the sun will still rise in the morning, pie will still taste good and Smash Bros will still be the most insanely fun multiplayer experience around.

I personally will boycott Brawl if it does anything to **** with an already perfect game. Note that I have no problem with new implications, moves, and the like. But removing things like airdodging and by association, wavedashing would cause me to break my copy in half and burn it.

Wow, that seems pretty extreme. SSB64 was a great game - but the drastic changes they made for Melee ultimately made the game much better. Isn't it also possible that Brawl could also change the Smash fomulae for the better? All I'm suggesting is that you should keep an ope mind. Even if a gameplay mechanic is cut or altered, it could be repalced with a technique that proved even more rewarding.

So that's why im nervous. Im gonna be sweating bullets when Brawl comes out... I trust Nintendo, but remember that sales and $$$ profit are their motivation, not the smash community.

True, but we can rest easy that the Suits at Nintendo HQ aren't the ones designing the game: Sakurai and his team are. Just look at the list of composers that the guy assembled for the game's music. If that much time and effort has gone into the sound playing in the background, don't you also think Sakurai is going to make sure that the gameplay is as tight and enjoyable as possible? Given the quality of past Smash games, I don't you have a thing to worry about.

A final point I wish to raise is that SSBM Managed to be fun for pathetic noobs that play with items and the like, and totally and completly strategic and technical for those of us that play smash the way it should be played. It was a great balance, on one hand you could have fun playing the game with your friends without being serious, on the other hand you could be like me and train at the game 10+ hours a week with your friends and have a killer time doing so.

What I'm worried about is that Brawl might focus a bit too much on ''fun for noobs'' (Which, really is what sells copies of the game) and not enough on making its highest potential something far beyond the capacity of your average smasher.

Melee is indeed one of the few fighting games that both casual players and hardcore players can both enjoy.

Judging from what we know about Brawl, I suspect that this trend will continue. Before the Dojo updates began, Sakurai posted an article "How This Game Came To Be Made" where he explains that the team he was given to create Brawl consited of a group of young programers who had played Melee for hundreds upon hundreds of hours and had worn off the plastic coatings from all their Gamecube controllers. Clearly, these people are hardcore players who understand what makes Melee combat so enjoyable for the hardcore.

For proof of this, look no further than the recent update which revealed that Brawl supports customizable button configurations - which doesn't strike me as a feature designed for the casual crowd.

I've seen a lot of stupidity posted on these boards about some sort of bizarre idea that Brawl will cause people to stop playing Melee. To those who sport that opinion I say : Melee will never die. Even if Brawl is amazing, NOTHING could ever replace Melee, and I'm 100% sure gatherings / tournaments will still be held for years to come for such a great game.


-Tnga

Heck yeah! The thriving SSB64 community is proof that a new Smash doesn't mean we have to say goodbye to the old. Hopefully, we'll soon have SSB64 on the virtual console, thus allowing us to hold tournaments where the first round is SSB64, the second is Melee and the final round is Brawl - all with the Gamecube controller.

In conclusion, am I nervous about Brawl potentially sucking? Not in the least. I'm confident that Sakurai's latest masterpiece will build on the successes of previous Smash games while at the same time be tweaked and enhanced to create a refreshing new take on the Smash Bros formulae.

 

[psicicle]

"Likewise, certian characters need to be nerfed in order to make the game more balanced.
Don't get me wrong: as fighting games go, Melee is exceptonally balanced and 9 times out of 10 skill trumps character selection. However, it is undeniable that the highest tier characters give the player a significant advantage when fighting against an equally skilled opponent using a non-high tier character. The goal should be to make all the characters equally matched, so that two equally skilled players can pick any two characters (Bowser and Fox, for example) without either character haing a significant advantage."

Actually, I think it would be more fun if the lower characters were umm... unnerfed (can't think of the right word). I'd personally hate to play a game where they all handled like melee's bowser.

 

[Wiseguy]

Actually, I think it would be more fun if the lower characters were umm... unnerfed (can't think of the right word). I'd personally hate to play a game where they all handled like melee's bowser.

Let me be clear: I'm not advocating bringing all the characters down to Bowser's level. Instead, I'd like to see all the characters adjusted to about a Mario level. For Bowser, that might mean increasing his attack speed. For Fox, that means lowering it.

 

[Johnknight1]

Crap...now I'm worried, one of my top piics Goroh is a NPC! Please don't have Black Shadow! *goes and cries....okay not really!* That was stupid, I was about to jump up and down with excitement, but then I see the item slot on him....wat are you doing Sakurai=??? F*** Black Shadow!

 

[HideousBeing]

Dang! I thought Samurai was gonna be playable, but if you check under Characters he ain't there. He's shown under assist trophies.

 

[Adi]

Yeah that had my hopes up too, /sigh, oh well there's another item competitive smashers won't be using.

 

[CBNJ]

Who cares if Goroh isn't a playable character? Obviously Sakurai realized that he wasn't good enough to be a PC, so he put him in for you as a Assist Trophy.

 

[BigRick]

Actually, I think it would be more fun if the lower characters were umm... unnerfed (can't think of the right word). I'd personally hate to play a game where they all handled like melee's bowser.

Sooo right. Nerfing is ghey.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Wow I have created a monster. Im glad they allow all the spam because at least half of the postage here despite a few worthless posts or RPG nonsense is good discussion. I'd be a fool to think the MODs here ignore the thread and its cool they leave it open.

Thanks for the reply wiseguy im a little tired but Ill probably read it and respond to some points laters.

Does anything positive come from Dylan

*Dylan chooses Axemred/Yeahdude as party*
*Dylan + Axem perform dual tech fire sword 2
*Yeahdude! and axem perform dual tech ice sword 2*
*Party casts triple tech ''Dark eternal''*

Damage dealt to thread :

8674 + 7854 + 9999


Black rock, *****.

 

[Laijin]

Wow. This thread is still alive

 

[mario-man]

Ignore this. Accidental double post.

 

[mario-man]

I almost hope this thread dies now, cuz I'm gettin tired of reading these people's posts about "Items = rULZ0Rz" and "wavedashing is a glitch".

I'm not gonna say this again, and I'm sure Dylan feels the same way.

Items suck, and wavedashing is not a glitch!!!

We will not be persuaded to like items no matter what you say. That's all that needs to be said. If you have any questions, then read this whole thread. HAHA There, that'll keep you busy. lol

 

[NES n00b]

Get out of this thread Laijin. XD

I thought you left for a week Dylan. Glad to see you are here then. ^_^ KEEP FLAMING THE N00BS (with Crono Trigger attacks >_>)

Also, I am still waiting for my vids. ****

 

[Laijin]

lawlz.
I remember when this thread was first made. I did'nt expect it to get this big.
wtf guyz.
let this **** die. xD

 

[Wiseguy]

I almost hope this thread dies now, cuz I'm gettin tired of reading these people's posts about "Items = rULZ0Rz" and "wavedashing is a glitch".

I'm not gonna say this again, and I'm sure Dylan feels the same way.

Items suck, and wavedashing is not a glitch!!!

We will not be persuaded to like items no matter what you say. That's all that needs to be said. If you have any questions, then read this whole thread. HAHA There, that'll keep you busy. lol

As far as I know, wavedashing was not intentionally put in the game in the same way as, say, air dodging was - so in that respect it is a glitch. It seems to me that if the developers had intended for the player to be able to skip their jump animation and slide along the stage, they would have listed it will all the other moves in the instruction booklet that comes with the game.

Relax dude. Just because wavedashing is a glitch doesn't make it cheating. It's a great technique used by the most skilled of Smash players, and since it can be preformed without altering the game in any way it is a perfectly legitament tactic.

And, for the record, I don't care whether or not you play with items. I'm just telling it like it is: that they add more enjoyment and compexity to an already great experience. I'm not so insecure that I get upset whenever someone disagrees with me...

 

[HideousBeing]

I think this last update will be Sakurai's indirect way of saying, "These characters are not on the roster for Brawl:" Notice he starts with Goroh. Many were hoping he might be playable. Sakurai has denied this. Hope he doesn't add Ridley to the Assist Trophies.

I'm excited to see which not-very-well-known-or-popular characters are gonna show up on these.

 

[Superstar]

Meh, no nerfing, please. And if there is nerfing, it should be slight. What should be done is that lower characters should go up. You saw what happened with Kirby when they nerfed him? I don't want Fox to be as strong as Mario, I want Mario to be as strong as Fox, it would make playing Mario much more fun.

Meh, if they took wavedash away I would be better, as I am no good at wavedashing [I wavedash in Pikachu's down tilt], and the only thing I can use it for is dodging. However, wavedash must be kept for Brawl, its a tactic that adds much to the game's depth. If Brawl's online play is solid, I assure you I will work on my wavedash, I need to play versus other wavedashers to improve wavedashing, and playing versus other people is good motivation.

--------------------------
Here is something I am upset about, scrubs are EVERYWHERE, even in Pokemon. Ok, let me explain Pokemon, just to let you understand a bit...

In pokemon, a pokemon's strength > skill. As pokemon is more unbalanced than Smash, certain pokemon are banned from certain levels of play. The most often played is the overused set, however, they are the second strongest set, the highest being the ubers.

The ubers are the strongest pokemon in the game, stuff like Mewtwo, and Wobbufet [Wobbufet is strong for his own reason, I'll answer if you ask]. They consist of some legendaries that are a cut above, and are small in number. Generally, the idiots of Pokemon are the ones who put 6 ubers in their team and call themselves invincible. As ubers lead to a stale metagame, OU [overused] is the standard set.

However, not all legendaries are ubers. Stuff like the legendary dogs, birds, statues are not uber, as they are as strong as any other overused pokemon. Also, Jirachi and Celebi aren't uber, even though they are as strong as Mew their movepools are not as infinitely vast. Although in the face of smash banning certain tiers is scrubbish, as Pokemon relies on stats, the only skill being the element of surprise, prediction and team structure, this sort of metagame suits Pokemon.

However, as always, you get the SCRUBS. For example...

Banned Pokemon
To keep from have overpowered teams, there is going to be a ban on ALL legendaries, and ALL ubers. Using them will get you AND your teammate kicked from the tourney.

This tournament put a ban on ALL legendaries in general, fully ignoriing the fact that not ALL legendaries are so overpowered. What's worse, some non-legendaries are WORSE than the non-uber legendaries, Blissy being one of the worst that she's practically an uber.

No legendaries period.

This quote was for match terms. Banning the non-uber legendaries actually leads to a staler metagame as well, its almost like the wavedash debate.

I don't know, it gets me fairly angry at the stupidity of some people. Wonder what will happen if Brawl comes out and keeps wavedash, or another greater skill replaces it.

 

[NES n00b]

There is a problem with not nerfing at all.

Here is an example: Let's say that the developers make Kirby powerful in order that he can keep up with Fox. Now, he is actually better than Fox. Since Fox, is now towards the lower tiers (since they made other characters more powerful, too) he gets another buff in order to keep up. This continuous buffing would become a cycle where characters then would just become gigabowser bad.

That is the problem with NO nerfing. I don't like most nerfing, but it is necessary.