Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?

[Overswarm]

You are making pointless conjecture and a poor judgement from it.



1: There is no reason for the hitboxes to be bigger for online play. That doesn't make sense.

Have you ever played a game that was built to be played online? There is always lag, and to compensate the hitboxes are increased. This way, you don't just take damage if the enemy hits your face; your hitbox is a little bit outside of your face. Like in halo 2, how shooting someone in the chest can now be a headshot.

2: Conjecture, you are merely stating a possibilty

That's what everyone is doing. Logically, you can realize that Melee is about as fast as it gets. It won't get much faster. At fastest, everyone would just be fox/falcon/sheik speeds, they wouldn't go much higher than that if at all. Knowing that, you can realize that if it is not going to stay the same, it will change. Change can ruin something good, which is why it is on the list. It is almost a definite that the speed of the game will change, and that is dangerous.

3: This is definitely a good thing (I think you meant to convey that)

In a sense. As for the sirlin.net guy, the moves are broken. Broken, by definition, is a move that should be used more often than any other move because it is so much better. Moves that are obvious "kill" moves, or "combo" moves. Moves that are just "Wow" moves. That's why you see some moves mentioned more than others. When is the last time you heard doc's d-tilt mentioned seriously? What about peach's d-smash?

The reason this could be bad is that part of the fun is HAVING these moves. What would sheik be without her fair? Fox without his u-air? Balance is fun, but every character in this game has something "Broken" about them that gives them an edge. Even pichu can juggle like no ones business with his u-air and u-tilt combos. The idea is to try to balance the broken moves, not remove them. Would you really want to play smash where every move sucked?

4: This is inevitable. People need to get over it. People will have to learn new characters. It isnt a problem for true Soul Calibur players, it shouldnt be for true smashers. You have no idea what kind of balancing they are working out. They might shorten Marth's sword or just his attack range for all you know (that would make WAY MORE sense.) You have no way of knowing and you are guessing.

No, it isn't inevitable. Who plays kirby, pikachu, or ness now? Not the winners, unless they're goofing off. Who is going to play Marth, Sheik, Fox, and Falco in the next one? The good characters might get severely nerfed in the next one for no reason other than they were good in this one. The characters that are good in this one are pretty cool. No reason to destroy them.

5: That seems to be a fair assessment but I say its still too early too tell

Only if the trailers lie. People got hops in Brawl.

Overall i think people are overly pessimistic and resistant to change. Unfortunately i doubt Brawl will be as dramatic improvement as melee was, i dont think there is room for enough for them to add to the game as much as they did there (wow that sentence sucked... long day). Let us keep an open mind until we see more though

Well, anyone with any intelligence is resistant to change because change can be BAD. Change is a gamble. People aren't resistant to good change, just bad change, and they are afraid this will be bad change.

 

[Ikural]

I just hope it doesnt go character happy.
like some new characters would be good but not like redead! octoroc!
or crap like that.
And i also hope that there are less "2 of a kinds"

 

[Volrec]

Replying to a post on page 7, short hopping will be in the game. Kirby did it

 

[Devastlian]

Well, Seth, you still missed the first thing but other than that it seems okay now.

Also, Mr. Aonuma is the guy that directed Majora's Mask, The Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess.

And, to further address the topic, ya know, with all the time going into SSBB, it could end up being the SSBM that was originally intended with new stuff that has been considered over the last six years. And, with its two year development time, maybe they can get the game to work without wavedashing. Or maybe it'll get some adjustments so it isn't just yet another thing that faster characters have an advantage in.

And, if you want SSBB to suck so bad...it probably will. Just thought I'd mention that.

 

[Infil]

I haven't read the entire thread, but it sounds to me like people are more concerned that Brawl will be different than Melee, instead of worrying about whether it will suck or not.

Brawl WILL be different than Melee, and likely drastically so. Get used to the idea, and you might just find yourself liking the changes Brawl introduces.

I want wavedashing and all that good stuff back, too, but if it's not... call me crazy, but I think the game will be just as competitively playable.

There will be new moves, new tactics, and new balance to the characters. Some characters will be nerfed extremely, but that just means that some other character will take their place at the top of the tier list. What does it matter? It seems silly to concern yourself that Marth's F-smash will be toned down, as if that alone is a bad idea because "it worked well enough in Melee". It's a new game. Everything will be new, and that's a good thing. We've all played Melee for years now... changing things around makes things fun.

Nintendo knows well enough not to screw around with their arguably biggest franchise. If you liked Melee, you can trust the exact same designer to make a game of equal caliber with more experience, more tools, more resources, and more money at his disposal, can't you?

 

[Ikural]

It will be good but when people try too hard, it tends to be disappointing.

 

[Sensai]

Overswarm, I heard the best quote ever yesterday night, and you just reminded me of it by talking about bigger hitboxes.

'This game isn't like Halo...you actually have to hit them.'

And, like Devas (and Mark Twain) said, 'If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right.'

 

[Seth'White Fox']

Also, Mr. Aonuma is the guy that directed Majora's Mask, The Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess.

Oh Fu*k really?! Man now I'm REALLY embarressed...
Those are some of my faves...
Oh well I'll just note that and move on I suppose

PS: BTW ,Ikural, I've seen banners like yours before, but I've never found out how to make um, where is everyone going to get um?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Sheik doesn't chainthrow Marth .

You're an idiot. Like I'm trying to cope with all the nub opinions in this thread, but that one takes the cake. Shiek can chainthrow marth at 0% to over 100% with her downthrow before he can get out. And its one of the easiest chainthrows in the game, easier than peaches upthrow on falcon.

I don't see what the big deal is about them anyway. They're usually only possible for a set amount of percentage anyway, maybe 50-60%. That's two Dsmashes from Peach. That's a grab combo from the ICs. That's .5 seconds being comboed by Falco. There are plenty of powerful techniques and a game isn't broken unless one character has them all.

I agree completly with this, however. Chainthrows aren't broken, good DI gets you out of them at a certain percentage, good mindgames dont allow you to get grabbed. Amazing mindgames are required at people with psychic tech-chase DI prediction though.

One more little addation: If you would quit on Brawl, for something as little as ONE MOVE, a game that Sakurai is pushing his very limits just to bring to us, I can not look upon you with respect.

If that ''move'' is wavedashing, then yes I'll quit on brawl. And I don't care if you can look upon me with respect, think you could take me in melee? (don't answer that question until sunday when I get my tournament ranking back, and this tourney has the tops in canada playing, Bam, Vwins, and Vodka.)

 

[wuthefwasthat]

stop whining about wavedashing being taken out, everyone...

i wavedash a ton, i even platform dash whenever i can with bowser. but i wouldn't mind if it were out.

the game still has enormous potential

hopefully the makers will capitalize, and recognize the competitive community.

if not.... MELEE FOREVER!

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

stop whining about wavedashing being taken out, everyone...

i wavedash a ton, i even platform dash whenever i can with bowser. but i wouldn't mind if it were out.

the game still has enormous potential

hopefully the makers will capitalize, and recognize the competitive community.

if not.... MELEE FOREVER!

Smash would suck without wavedashing, end of story.

Melee forever indeed.

 

[Sensai]

I don't think it would suck without wavedashing. That's 100% subjective, so I can't really talk you into/out of anything, but I guess I'll state my opinions.

Smash 64 did not 'suck' just because it had no WD. It wasn't as good as Melee because it wasn't as balanced, and it didn't have the depth that Melee did. Yes, in Melee, that depth is through wavedashing. But the creators could easily come up with something to take it's place.

I don't really have any ideas what it could be, and I sure as hell don't want quick rolls...but, it could be done.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

As a longtime Halo fan I am accustomed to developers disappointing the hardcore fans by removing beloved aspects of the game in favor of shiny new stuff. I also am not impressed with Nintendo's recent track record, which clearly reveals a paradigm shift from "skillful gameplay" to "fun and random." For instance...

Mario Kart 64 => Double Dash
Mario Tennis => Mario Power Tennis

In both these games we see new elements introduced to favor the beginner. In Double Dash the lagging racers get a huge speed boost, and items are way overpowered. Hopping and most of the powersliding game are gone. In Mario Power Tennis they introduced the ridiculous "power shots" which I'm sad to say make me think of the Brawl "specials."

Although the competitive community for Smash is relatively large (~50,000 - 60,000), it is still a small fraction of the general Smash community (8 million). The competitive Halo community is even larger and has been almost completely ignored by Bungie, so I wouldn't expect any special treatment from Nintendo.

From the Brawl trailers one can discern a few troubling things:

1) The game looks slower. I realize it's not top-notch players demonstrating, but even simple things like the dash animations are noticably slower.

2) The game utilizes freeze frames extensively. I.e., characters get stuck in place during "drill" attacks, essentially eliminating DI.

3) Wavedashing appears to have been replaced by a new wavedash-like roll.

And these are just engine problems. There are also going to be balance issues. From first glance Metaknight seems seriously broken. But we'll see. I'm not optimistic, but I'll reserve final judgment for the finished product.

Overswarm, Shai Hulud, your posts are excellent.

For the sake of the game that we all know and love, I hope that you are at least somewhat mistaken in a lot of what you said.

Actually,most of his points are invalid.

For one,in Mario Power Tennis,the power shots may be turned off before the game starts.

And for the trailer examinations:

1.) Durring the time of the Beta version of development in melee,they also had slow gameplay,and very large freeze frames:

Look at the video labled"Character Parade".

As you can see,the character animations and freeze frames are slow and clunky,as the same in the brawl trailer,and to the contrary,actually looks faster.Brawl is only in Beta format,and everything in the trailer isn't complete yet,so we would have to wait.

And as a side note,the games speed really isn't that fast when played on standard level,only in competative play the game becomes faster because of techniques such as FF,WD and SHFFL.

2.) Watch the video i provided,and you can see that extreme freeze frames are present.Chances are that the freeze frames will be eliminated during the final development phase.

3.)That is only a meer assumption,even though probable.

So let's wait before we jump the gun..

And also,if the WD was removed,i really wouldn't care(Coming from someone who plays with Fox,Mario,and Marth).The only reason people fear its removal is because the move has become so integrated with the game to the point in which that one thinks that their technical skill can't compensate.The WD may be important,but don't forget that WD isn't the peak of technical skill.

EDIT: Off topic,but for those who fear,the 2007 release...It seems preety official,but i wouldn't get your hopes up..Here

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I don't think it would suck without wavedashing. That's 100% subjective, so I can't really talk you into/out of anything, but I guess I'll state my opinions.

Smash 64 did not 'suck' just because it had no WD. It wasn't as good as Melee because it wasn't as balanced, and it didn't have the depth that Melee did. Yes, in Melee, that depth is through wavedashing. But the creators could easily come up with something to take it's place.

I don't really have any ideas what it could be, and I sure as hell don't want quick rolls...but, it could be done.

Yeah, but what makes wavedashing sooo great is it serves as a barrier between the various degrees of noobs, and average players.

Complete noobs cant wavedash, call it a glitch and shun it (and will never win against anyone with half as much skill as me)

Almost mediocre noobs can wavedash, but have trouble with it

Average players can wavedash but arent sure how to apply it to a real game yet

Above average players can wavedash and perfectly incoporate it into the game, to them wavedashing is as easy as regular dashing.

And at smashest higher / highest levels, wavedashing isn't a skill anymore since everyone can do it, so who wins and who loses comes down to the more important things in the game, namely spacing, mindgames, and timing. (At high levels of melee I also assume everyone perfectly SHFFLS)

I don't care if in brawl theres a way to move around without lag and immediatly smash, but I want it to not be something simple like holding L and moving the control stick, wavedashign is ingenious in that it is difficult for noobs, and extremely easy for pros.

Classic didn't suck, but it just wasn't capable of creating competition like melee, since at its highest levels it was just two 1337 players exchanging 0-death comboes, theres nothign like that in melee and Mindgames can change the direction of the match in a heartbeat.

 

[Seth'White Fox']

Yeah, but what makes wavedashing sooo great is it serves as a barrier between the various degrees of noobs, and average players.

Complete noobs cant wavedash, call it a glitch and shun it (and will never win against anyone with half as much skill as me)

Almost mediocre noobs can wavedash, but have trouble with it

Average players can wavedash but arent sure how to apply it to a real game yet

Above average players can wavedash and perfectly incoporate it into the game, to them wavedashing is as easy as regular dashing.

And at smashest higher / highest levels, wavedashing isn't a skill anymore since everyone can do it, so who wins and who loses comes down to the more important things in the game, namely spacing, mindgames, and timing. (At high levels of melee I also assume everyone perfectly SHFFLS)

I don't care if in brawl theres a way to move around without lag and immediatly smash, but I want it to not be something simple like holding L and moving the control stick, wavedashign is ingenious in that it is difficult for noobs, and extremely easy for pros.

Classic didn't suck, but it just wasn't capable of creating competition like melee, since at its highest levels it was just two 1337 players exchanging 0-death comboes, theres nothign like that in melee and Mindgames can change the direction of the match in a heartbeat.

Oh come on man, enough is enough. Lislen: I know your new and all, and you feal strongly about your oponions, but what you have been saying about other players is just plain ignorent. Just beceause a player can or can't wavedash does not set him or her apart from any other player. My friend is one of the best Falcos I've ever seen, SHL, Piller, intercepts, you name it. But he doesent wavedash. He says that its not worth it for the length of which Flaco's WD is.

Point being, calm down man, that is: if you don't want to see an early dismassal from smash board via being banned. Not trying to be rude or thretneing(Spelling error) but calm down!

 

[Sensai]

Eternal, like always, you pull through. Excellent points and thanks for bestowing hope unto me.

As for that date, I wouldn't place too much faith in it. After all, when was Twilight Princess scheduled for the first time?

Dylan, I understand your concern. There's not much more I hate then getting rocked by someone who has no idea what they're doing. But, as your post seems to say, if wavedashing was easily accessible, then noobs could beat pros? No, like you said: noobs don't feel the need to wavedash. They may very well be aware of its existence, but don't choose to utilize it because they feel it's useless.

And, I'm sure you meant otherwise, you seem to say that wavedashing is somehow difficult, technically speaking. Anyone who reallys want to can do it with 5 minutes of practice and a decent explaination, as can be told when you go against someone who just learned how to do it, but to truly master it is the difficult part. That's the element that they need to keep in Brawl: a move that is easily acquired (technically speaking, like how WD is now) that allows for depth.

I have no comment on Seth's post, as I'm sure that as soon as Dylan reads it, this entire board is going to explode in strife.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I have no comment on Seth's post, as I'm sure that as soon as Dylan reads it, this entire board is going to explode in strife.

*Waits for erruptions*

 

[Seth'White Fox']

Any "erruptions" will be ignored. Well at least on my part, I don't feed trols.(Not directed at Dylan, but also not excludeing him)

Now for what I auctually came to say: this topic is well...
Getting off-topic.

If you all wish to cointinue debateing Wavedashing, how it can be used, how to do it, or how easy/hard it is. I suggest searching the forums in a genral Melee section of this board for a wavedashing post. If there isent one feal free to make one, although I highly doupt there isent one.

As it seems this topic has run dry the above listed suggestion should be well concerded. Don't expect to see me there though, I don't care enough about that peticular discussion.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Oh come on man, enough is enough. Lislen: I know your new and all, and you feal strongly about your oponions, but what you have been saying about other players is just plain ignorent. Just beceause a player can or can't wavedash does not set him or her apart from any other player. My friend is one of the best Falcos I've ever seen, SHL, Piller, intercepts, you name it. But he doesent wavedash. He says that its not worth it for the length of which Flaco's WD is.

Point being, calm down man, that is: if you don't want to see an early dismassal from smash board via being banned. Not trying to be rude or thretneing(Spelling error) but calm down!

Hah, as if getting banned scares me. For what? Being an experienced players and chastising nub opinions like ''Shiek cant chainthrow marth'' Whatever.

Dude, your friends falco probably sucks if he lacks waveshining, it's essential. There are pros who dont wavedash, but they have such mind numbing speed in every other areas of the game that they dont even need it. Best example being Aniki's samus, that is the FASTEST melee playing Ive ever seen, and samus is usually a spammer of the WD.

If your friend's falco is so good, either show me a video, or point out his standing in a recent tournament. If he has neither than your opinion is entirely subjective about what is, and isn't a good falco. And if he doesn't wavedash with falco, sorry to say, he's probably not very good. How the hell are you going to do SHL advances without wavedashing, sure you can jump towards the guy SHL and forward smash, but how the **** are you gonna do SHL spam to waveshine combo, one of falcos BEST combo starters?

I don't know about the rest of you, but a good marth or shiek vs a non wavedashing falco seems like 3-4 stock material to me...

Just beceause a player can or can't wavedash does not set him or her apart from any other player.

It depends

At an amateur level, those that wavedash PROPERLY AND INTERGRATE IT INTO THEIR GAME FOR ITS ACTUAL USES will win 70-100% of the time vs other ams who don't.

At the pro level, everyone has mastered the game's techs. Everyone SHFFLS perfectly, spaces properly, etc. Pro matches come down to mindgames, whether you wavedash or not, that's your choice. But to have superior mindgames to a high calibur player without using the wavedash is a tough battle, it can be done, but only by those who excell beyond belief at this game, which I'm sure your friends falco, doesn't.

And who said I was freaking out, why are you asking me to calm down? Do you have a problem with me going on at legnth about my opinions on melee which happen to be based entirely in truth?

Like I said before, if these kinds of posts get me banned than this forum isn't worth it to begin with. But I don't see anything ban-worthy in my posting style.


Edit : Seth are you a MOD? if I've gotten on your bad side then I guess maybe I will be banned, oh well. I wasn't trying to piss you or anyone off, except blindingly stupid noobs. As far as I see it this is all healthy debate Im not telling anyone to **** off, Im not exactly being nice but Im not being a total prick either. it's not like ''OMG U DONT WAVEDASH NOOB GO DIE GO DIE NUB'' See, THAT would be tr0lling.

Yeah. Ok, I'm a troll, sure. That's why I'm registered in the upcoming montreal tourney, and go to the biweeklies, yah I sure am a tr0ll alright..

If this is an ''erruption'' fine but I think Im making some good points, and I don't see how I give the impression that im foaming at the mouth at my keyboard, I'm completly relaxed guys, trust me

Dylan, I understand your concern. There's not much more I hate then getting rocked by someone who has no idea what they're doing. But, as your post seems to say, if wavedashing was easily accessible, then noobs could beat pros? No, like you said: noobs don't feel the need to wavedash. They may very well be aware of its existence, but don't choose to utilize it because they feel it's useless.

And, I'm sure you meant otherwise, you seem to say that wavedashing is somehow difficult, technically speaking. Anyone who reallys want to can do it with 5 minutes of practice and a decent explaination, as can be told when you go against someone who just learned how to do it, but to truly master it is the difficult part. That's the element that they need to keep in Brawl: a move that is easily acquired (technically speaking, like how WD is now) that allows for depth.

Here I'll try to explain my opinion as clearly as possible, using list form so maybe you can fully understand where im comin' from..

1. Wavedashing is EASY to do, but not for someone totally new to the game
2. Wavedashing is HARD to put into an actual game, for a newbie player
3. At a pro level, it is assumed everyone has no problem with ANY tech skill in the game, so ANY one skill does not set players apart.

My only concern is for the highest calibur of smash brothers playing, in which I am a part of. What I'm saying about the wavedash is that for players less skilled than I it is generally a good way to tell an uber newbie, from a mediocre player, from a slightly advanced player depending on how easy it is for them to WD and MOST importantly, how they use it in a real game situation.

 

[Seth'White Fox']

*Deeply inhales, then sighs*
First of all no I am not a mod, just a fellow member of the smash community who CAEREFULLY reads the rules. And I care about my fellow smasher, so I pass that infromation on..
Seccound of all, I am not going to cointinue to speak of this subject in this post, please find a different froum topic, relateing to this topic, for your disscussion.
Third Me and that falco placed secound in our last tourney.
And finally, did I ever say that Trollers were bad at smash? My friend trolls at sevral different forum sites.(Much to my discression for I have to plede with the mods not to ban him)

Thats all I have left to say, but thank you for your kind mail.
Have a smashing weekend!*Horrible pun*

 

[Mr.GAW]

Melee would suck without wavedashing, end of story.

Melee forever indeed.

Fixed.
.................................

 

[Red Exodus]

I still don't think SSBM would suck without WDing, maybe it would suck without all advanced techniques, but I think it can survive without WDing, but it would be a gapping hole left in SSBM [if a version was made without WD just for the sake of seeing how the game would fair ].

But I've WDed before, I get a good feeling when I do because I can't practice it [[for reasons, see sig] I can only try it when I'm actually fighting other people [in an arcade , which plays in a 4 player FFA with items most of the time ] in which case I just stand away from the fight and proceed to 'jump around' [failed attempts at WDing, no one ever realizes that I'm trying to WD or that I did WD when I finally get one done, which is mostly a downwards WD]. Some of the controllers there don't respond as well as I would like, so doing JCs, SH, SHFFLs , DDs, DCs becomes harder than it should.

 

[BrTarolg]

anyone who thinks wavedashing is as important and defining as the thread creator, probably isnt a very good smash player.

tactics are much more important than wavedashing anyday. i laugh at new "advanced" players who spam crazy ****, only to be beaten by a pro who simply dsmashes him with peach the whole match.

you say that dsmashing is noob, but its not. youre the one falling for it.

wavedashing is just another way of moving. if it were removed, the ground mobility game is a bit weaker. big deal, there are plenty of other ways to move around.

----

personally? without wavedashing , no l-cancelling, no shorthopping, no float cancelling, double jump cancelling, i still think smash would be an extremely in depth game.

maybe the only exception is l-cancelling, because the game might become super grab brothers <and characters like ice climbers and marth would be even better than they are now> - and fastfallers might improve slightly due to quick paced aerial <especially fox>, and those with better groundgames will do better <peach with he ground aerials>

but seriously, it just means it will be a different game. pros will still be exploiting everything to its fullest and playing the game to its highest level.

its not the removal of wavedashing that would make it suck. its the addition of chainthrows and the like that dumbed it down - because 0 - death can be done on anyone, pro or otherwise, and severely affects the metagame.

same for things like IC wobble.

 

[mario-man]

If you have the same skill level as your opponent,(aka won't fall for stupid traps) then wavedashing is important, not extremely, but important nonetheless. Besides, the point of videogames is to have fun. It is so much fun to hear someone who can't wavedash saying things and getting very annoyed because they can't touch you because you move so fast!!
Moving fast adds to the level of gameplay, because you have to think faster to avoid being KO'd by a fully charged fire blade from Roy. The point is if you don't wavedash immediately, you will get KO'd. (I said this before)

 

[Overswarm]

You do realize that Sheik can't chain grab marth except from 0% to 7%, right?

Tell me you're joking.

 

[Justin]

because you have to think faster to avoid being KO'd by a fully charged fire blade from Roy.

Last time I checked, you didn't have to think very fast at all to avoid a fully charged fire blade from Roy. I feel bad for anyone who was ever even hit by one of those, fully charged. If you allow a Roy player to fully charge his fire blade in a 1v1...then you obviously aren't doing something right.

 

[mario-man]

That is a good point, but how about DK's Primate Punch (or whatever it's called).

 

[Justin]

That could be a little different because it doesn't take as long and I think you don't have to fully charge it in one attempt (but I could be wrong), but that DK player would still have a very hard time fully charging his B attack if his opponent keeps pressure on him constantly. The only time DK would have enough time to fully charge his B attack would be when he knocks someone off the stage and they have no chance of recovering so the DK player wouldn't have to worry about edgeguarding or edgehogging so they could use that time to charge it.

 

[mario-man]

You're not wrong. It can be charged over a series of short charges. Also, check out this vid.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zM0gbNfd6Dg&mode=related&search=

 

[Justin]

You're not wrong. It can be charged over a series of short charges. Also, check out this vid.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zM0gbNfd6Dg&mode=related&search=

Yeah, Captain Jack has a nice DK going for him. I got mad respect for anyone who can master and represent low-tier characters as well as he does. But now I'm going off topic...

 

[JesterBox]

Jesterbox....I hate that analogy....
I hated cherry coke...

Yea I did think about that how about like....Pie with ice cream?

 

[Shai Hulud]

You're an idiot. Like I'm trying to cope with all the nub opinions in this thread, but that one takes the cake. Shiek can chainthrow marth at 0% to over 100% with her downthrow before he can get out. And its one of the easiest chainthrows in the game, easier than peaches upthrow on falcon.

Hahahaha no she can't. Maybe you can chainthrow a lvl 1 cpu, but against any human you're only guaranteed maybe ONE "chaingrab" and if the human is somewhat bad might make it all the way to 20%, but for anyone who isn't completely terrible you're not going past 20%. Marth can jump out of the "chainthrow" quite easily and even level 9 cpus will attack you before you can regrab by 40ish. Hahaha way to make an *** of yourself, scrub.

 

[Classic-Black]

Since this is a prettly long topic, i'll probably end up echoing the sentiments of other posters, so here goes...

Brawl is not Melee, Melee was not Smash Brothers. SMB:B will be it's own game, and thankfully not Melee 2.0. Anyone with any skill in Melee should be able to adapt to Brawl with little no no issues. It was that way from 64 to the Cube, it'll be that way from the Cube to the Wii
Anyone with the rationale that a game will be made or broken because of one advanced tech, should never pick up a controller again. Anyone who is actually good at this game will not need to use Wavedashing, or any tech for that matter, as a crutch to their play style. Anyone who does is no different then a button masher, just more elitist in additude.

And they're called 'Advanced' techniques for a reason, Wavedashing wasn't something everyone and their momma knew about right out the box for Melee, so why should it be that way for Brawl?

Everyone just needs to quit their *****in until the game actually comes out

 

[h1roshi]

Since this is a prettly long topic, i'll probably end up echoing the sentiments of other posters, so here goes...

Brawl is not Melee, Melee was not Smash Brothers. SMB:B will be it's own game, and thankfully not Melee 2.0. Anyone with any skill in Melee should be able to adapt to Brawl with little no no issues. It was that way from 64 to the Cube, it'll be that way from the Cube to the Wii
Anyone with the rationale that a game will be made or broken because of one advanced tech, should never pick up a controller again. Anyone who is actually good at this game will not need to use Wavedashing, or any tech for that matter, as a crutch to their play style. Anyone who does is no different then a button masher, just more elitist in additude.

And they're called 'Advanced' techniques for a reason, Wavedashing wasn't something everyone and their momma knew about right out the box for Melee, so why should it be that way for Brawl?

Everyone just needs to quit their *****in until the game actually comes out

wow....this is probably THE BEST 1st post i have ever seen a poster type....

i've been reading this thread a bit and there is so much ignorance in here its ridiculous...i dont even know what to comment on because there is is so much garbage in here...idk...as far as being nervous...no...not at all...i completely trust nintendo...this game will be great...if you look at the game footage realeased so far you can see that the game mechanics are still very similar to smash...as for online gameplay...its very likely that we'll have to use friendcodes and that we wont have matchmaking...if so that would suck...but at least we would be able to lay with our frinds and others at smashboards that we normally wouldnt be able to play...as for as a lot of the talk on wavedashing...yes its a great technique...yes i love it and abuse it...yes its very easy to learn if you really just take the time to go to training mode for a day and do some practice...yest all the advanced plaers use it...but if it gets left out of brawl...then so be it...the game is not going to be destroyed....yes we will have one less tech to use..but we will probably get more...and if we dont ...then we'll just learn to play better in other aspects...we'll play smarter in general to make up for not having wavedashing...but no matter how different the game is...i am sure that we will adapt to brawl until it comes to the point where we all just play brawl and no melee...or very limited melee...at first melee will still be thriving...but once brawl gets enough time into where we can start playing uber advanced...and once it gets to the stage where everyone is in search of new and advanced tactics , we will be so consumed with brawl that eventualy melee will fall...slowly we'll see brawl tournaments taking over everywhere...it seems kinds sad now..but once we're playing brawl it'll be different...yeah there gonna change stuff...its inevitable...its gonna be a different game..its definitely gonna be simialr...but ultimately...its gonna be a different game...but its gonna be just as goodas melee...well..i honestly think its gonna be better...the team making this game worke on melee and they have a lot of new talent..they already have experience with htis game so they only need to improve and refine..i truly think its gonna be more balanced now that they have a better understanding of the game..and it will b easier for them to implement new tech and strattegies since they do understand the game so well....this game is gonna be so good i just dont want to think about it cuz i wanna play it so bad...and remeber...japans goona get the game first and they are gonna put vids up online so they will probably find all the stuff we're looking for first...so by the time we get the game...we are already gonna know stiff like "is wavedashing stii in?", " can we l-cancel?", and we learn what new stuff to expect...DONT DOUBT NINTENDO!!!!.... fvck, i got to go to work...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Got ellipsis?



Anyway, the game's not going to suck. It may not be as good as melee, but even that is extremely unlikely. And, if for some reason, it ended up terrible, there's still melee.

 

[Zone]

My idea of perfect SSBB would be same techs, New characters, All characters work way different from eachother in their own way. + A system in which Nintendo watches how the tier starts coming out. and fixes things. Say like

"Oh bowser is too slow, Let's make his moves a little faster."

Perfect game isn't perfect unless its 100% balanced + Deep. So SSBM isn't perfect. Good game. And Fun. But not perfect.

 

[Neo Samurai]

Actually,most of his points are invalid.

And for the trailer examinations:

1.) Durring the time of the Beta version of development in melee,they also had slow gameplay,and very large freeze frames:

Look at the video labled"Character Parade".

As you can see,the character animations and freeze frames are slow and clunky,as the same in the brawl trailer,and to the contrary,actually looks faster.Brawl is only in Beta format,and everything in the trailer isn't complete yet,so we would have to wait.

And as a side note,the games speed really isn't that fast when played on standard level,only in competative play the game becomes faster because of techniques such as FF,WD and SHFFL.

2.) Watch the video i provided,and you can see that extreme freeze frames are present.Chances are that the freeze frames will be eliminated during the final development phase.

3.)That is only a mere assumption,even though probable.

So let's wait before we jump the gun..

And also,if the WD was removed,i really wouldn't care(Coming from someone who plays with Fox,Mario,and Marth).The only reason people fear its removal is because the move has become so integrated with the game to the point in which that one thinks that their technical skill can't compensate.The WD may be important,but don't forget that WD isn't the peak of technical skill.
up..Here

He pretty much says absolutely everything worth noting.

Also is it not possible that Brawl can be competetive without wavedashing? what if it has something else. No one can tell. No one saw it coming for melee.

Incidentally: Can anyone tell me about when smash started getting really competetive some kind of ballpark

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Hahahaha no she can't [chainthrow marth]. Maybe you can chainthrow a lvl 1 cpu, but against any human you're only guaranteed maybe ONE "chaingrab" and if the human is somewhat bad might make it all the way to 20%, but for anyone who isn't completely terrible you're not going past 20%. Marth can jump out of the "chainthrow" quite easily and even level 9 cpus will attack you before you can regrab by 40ish. Hahaha way to make an *** of yourself, scrub.

Wow, have you ever played smash? Anyway I'm not gonna waste time debating this with you, rather when I get home from my friends house, Ill post a whole ****load of professional smash videos where marth gets chainthrown by shiek. It happens -ALL THE TIME-

I kind of do that thing where I go to tournaments, so I also SEE IT IN PERSON.

Hah next you're gonna tell me marth cant chainthrow fox / falco, and peach cant chainthrow falcon. You're hilarious, I can't believe how infested with noob opinions like yours these forums are when so many good players post on them, its a pity.

 

[Cisne]

maybe he plays pal

 

[dizzy]

Wow, have you ever played smash?

Better question: have you? Sheik can't chain grab Marth much longer than 15%, let alone from 0 to 100%. I don't care how good you or anybody else may be with Sheik. After the first dthrow, Marth's low fallspeed gives him time to recover before he falls back into Sheik's grab range. Assuming Marth makes intelligent use of DI and the double jump, Sheik's chain grab stops working after two or three throws.

In any case, if you're going to be an elitist, at least know what you're talking about, thanks.