Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?

[Wolfblade]

This may have bin said already but... I know tons of people were probably *****ing when Melee came out. Too fast, and jumpy, but oh wait? We all love it! So why be worried about change?

Personally, I would be dissapointed if Brawl is just a beefed up Melee. I don't want the same game, I want the same style, but give me something different, something unique, like Melee did after the N64.

Its already bin stated, if you prefer Melee, you can still play that in yer Wii folks, but yer also gonna have another great game, which, will be better.

With all the wavedashing talk; I hope its gone. Sure something else will be exploited but dashing out. Although it seems that a counter dodge type move might replace it from looking at Pit's and Metaknights movements. An easier way to do it that is explained in the manual would be great. Means us people who know how to do it, don't have as many andvatages over a potentially good newcomer.

Looks like if that is a wavedash (or its replacement to keep you winey punks happy) then you probably won't be able to do it as frequently.

I'd prefer to be combo-ing people through the air in a slightly slower game (which will still be lightning fast; speed won't change that much people!) than using a glitch to slide around the stage for a whole match.

Closing note: There will be anther split in the fan base when Brawl comes out like when Melee did, but face it, yer gonna love Brawl none the less, and if it was just Melee with a makeover, you'd all be complaining about how its turning into just another fighter franchise that just adds new characters each time (mortal combat till recently). So, don't be worried, be happy that you will have two wicked games to hop back and forth with.

 

[Sensai]

There was actually a thread a while ago (it may still be around) devoted to figuring out the tiers if WD was non-existant.

I'm not really sure what came of it, but I think Marth and Peach went up, with Fox going down, but not that much.

IMO, if they took out advanced techs completely, Peach would be God tier...

Sorry, off-topic.

[Edit:]

Wolfblade actually summed up a good deal of what I was thinking, concerning Brawl in comparison to Melee. One thing I do disagree with, however, is that I believe that the WD makes the game much deeper. I'll be sad to see it go, but I have faith that Nintendo won't mess it up.

 

[Justin]

I think one way or another...wavedashing will be in Brawl, but for whatever reason they do take it out...I'm going to miss it. I don't use it a whole lot, but it would still change things up drastically.

And what's up with the rumors about Fox having a moveset based around his blaster since he is holding it constantly in the trailers. I don't know about that...is every other move going to be him pistol whipping fools?

 

[rokimomi]

U think they'll point it out in the manual? Canceling Dk's and samus's charges wasnt in the old smash manual but it was in melee's. Nothing epic or anything but alot of stuff was left out.

 

[6th Sense]

im pretty sure every1 is nervous about Brawl "sucking" but they gave us two great games before so I don't think they can f**k ^ that much

 

[Wolfblade]

U think they'll point it out in the manual? Canceling Dk's and samus's charges wasnt in the old smash manual but it was in melee's. Nothing epic or anything but alot of stuff was left out.

I was saying that they would probably incorporate it as a new dodge, since it might have bin seen in the trailer. That way you still get a wavedash, but the casual players could use it too. And since it would be for every character (or most) then they would most likely put it in the manual. Dk's charge and whatnot are character specific, not everyone does it so they wouldn't have to waste space for it in a manual that is focussing on generic controls for all the characters.

If I'm wrong, then that simple, I'm wrong. Just my theory.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

With all the wavedashing talk; I hope its gone. Sure something else will be exploited but dashing out. Although it seems that a counter dodge type move might replace it from looking at Pit's and Metaknights movements. An easier way to do it that is explained in the manual would be great. Means us people who know how to do it, don't have as many andvatages over a potentially good newcomer.

Looks like if that is a wavedash (or its replacement to keep you winey punks happy) then you probably won't be able to do it as frequently.

Nice, wavedash criticism coming from someone who can barely muster the motor skills to spell.

Who do you think you are name calling? Whiney punks? Excuse me? you... do know how bit a part of pro smash WDing is. I think being concerned about it staying in the next installment of the game is a bit more than just whining.

From the sounds of it, you've never played a tournament with decent smashers in your life. Normally I wouldn't be so condenscending but you're being really arrogant my friend if you think you can downtalk the advanced members of the smash community. We've proven ourselves, you haven't. Well I haven't proven myself as much as I'd like to, wait for the results from this saturdays tournaments, maybe Ill have some vids

Wavedash bashers are all the same... let me guess you're gonna come back with some argument involving Aniki winning tournaments without WDing, right? Seen it before and it's just getting boring. The only reason people like you bash WDing so much is because you lack smash skill, plain and simple : you're jealous so you blame it on ONE tech that almost every smasher knows to be an intergral part of the game and call it a glitch.

 

[Wolfblade]

Nice, wavedash criticism coming from someone who can barely muster the motor skills to spell.

Who do you think you are name calling? Whiney punks? Excuse me? you... do know how bit a part of pro smash WDing is. I think being concerned about it staying in the next installment of the game is a bit more than just whining.

From the sounds of it, you've never played a tournament with decent smashers in your life. Normally I wouldn't be so condenscending but you're being really arrogant my friend if you think you can downtalk the advanced members of the smash community. We've proven ourselves, you haven't. Well I haven't proven myself as much as I'd like to, wait for the results from this saturdays tournaments, maybe Ill have some vids

Wavedash bashers are all the same... let me guess you're gonna come back with some argument involving Aniki winning tournaments without WDing, right? Seen it before and it's just getting boring. The only reason people like you bash WDing so much is because you lack smash skill, plain and simple : you're jealous so you blame it on ONE tech that almost every smasher knows to be an intergral part of the game and call it a glitch.

To get so greatly offended means you are one of those punks. Not to mention the first thing you did was wine about spelling. You my young friend are a punk. I like the people who are saying they like wavedashing but wouldn't mind if it's not Brawl. To those people I say kudos.

I wavedash myself, I like wavedashing, but I'd rather it not be in Brawl (or again, some other glitch will replace it, but preferably a simplified version so even new comers can try it and although avid smasher will be able to use it to its full potential, they won't be able to exploit it as much).

You my friend, will be my first Brawl wifi match if you like. Long as a friendly challenge doesn't offend you further?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

To get so greatly offended means you are one of those punks. Not to mention the first thing you did was wine about spelling. You my young friend are a punk. I like the people who are saying they like wavedashing but wouldn't mind if it's not Brawl. To those people I say kudos.

Yes, from my calm non vulgar demeaner in which I explain logically why the debate over wavedashing in brawl is a bit more than ''punks whining'' you can find clear evidence that I'm oh so offended and am crying my eyes out. Right. Arguing with ignorant comments counts as whining these days, gotcha

You my friend, will be my first Brawl wifi match if you like. Long as a friendly challenge doesn't offend you further?

Not a problem friend, but I don't understand your assumptions that I am some sort of scrub. You wouldn't think so if you had smashed with me

And Dylan, I like you. At first, it seemed you were coming off as kinda brash and hot-headed, but you've cooled down in the little bit I've seen from ya. Keep the good stuff coming. Welcome to the forums. :-D

Hey thanks for the warm welcome! I've lurked on these forums quite a bit so I already respect you as a poster.

Yeah I get a bit hot headed sometimes I won't deny (I'm Irish) but I know when to admit I was being a jerk, at the least

 

[Wolfblade]

Yes, from my calm non vulgar demeaner in which I explain logically why the debate over wavedashing in brawl is a bit more than ''punks whining'' you can find clear evidence that I'm oh so offended and am crying my eyes out. Right. Arguing with ignorant comments counts as whining these days, gotcha

Although you did not use any exclamation points to make it obvious, your wording was that of an annoyed child.

As I originally pointed out, to take shots at spelling right away shows a great deal of ignorance and frustration. Not to mention you constantly making assumptions that I was directing my comment at every pro and then assuming I'd use the tired argument of Aniki or another pro who rarely dashes. Settle down son, and accept my challenge to Brawl online.

Week one that it's online, we battle.

Edit: I noticed your edit just after sending my message. I don't think yer a scrub, just that you took it to heart too much. Challenge accepted for Brawl though.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Although you did not use any exclamation points to make it obvious, your wording was that of an annoyed child.

As I originally pointed out, to take shots at spelling right away shows a great deal of ignorance and frustration. Not to mention you constantly making assumptions that I was directing my comment at every pro and then assuming I'd use the tired argument of Aniki or another pro who rarely dashes. Settle down son, and accept my challenge to Brawl online.

Week one that it is online, we battle.

Whatever dude, I'm the annoyed child. You started stuff up by calling the people concerned about WDing in brawl ''whiney punks''

Not only that but you went on to post this :

I'd prefer to be combo-ing people through the air in a slightly slower game (which will still be lightning fast; speed won't change that much people!) than using a glitch to slide around the stage for a whole match.

hahhahahahaha, wavedashing is a glitch. You're too much man, and I'm the one who's whining?

You do know the Wavedash is labeled ''super dash technique'' in the debug menu by the game programmers? GG no re. Wavedashing was always in the game, just never explained since they thought it was too hard for the average gamer to do.

Great arguments though man, and then after someone tells you you're wrong you come back with the same ''you're whining'' insult.

I dunno about you, but calling Wavedashing a glitch despite its use in 99% of proffesional level smash games is a lot more scrubby and whining than what I was doing.


As for your ''challenge'' I don't quite understand where its coming from, but I doubt Ill have it online within the first week. But Ill send you a message when im up and running for a game

Without any wave-dashing, everyone would probably be at an equal level, unless the tapdancing is still involved

Umm.. what? you mean dash dancing I presume.

Dash dancing is just one of many mindgames, it doesn't constitute skill, neither does wavedashing.

Repeat, Wavedashing does NOT MAKE YOU A GOOD SMASHER. It is one of the least important technical abilities to have, but important none the less.

I don't think removing or adding anything would make everyone ''at an equal level'' the concept of everybody being the same level in smash is just ludicrous. In the end it all comes down to mindgames anyhow.

 

[DXY!]

Even if Brawl does remove some of the features that make Melee awesome (Which they most assuredly will), the game will still be great and just as fun as all it's predecessors. There will of course be people who will complain, whine and even hate that Brawl is in any way different from Melee, just like the people who cried when Melee was Different from Smash 64. But just like with this game, players will move on, become accustomed to the changes, and will have a great time.

For example, People cried and whined when Counter Strike Source was different from 1.6. They got over it and started playing Source. Some people still play 1.6 religiously and cry that anything that isn't 1.6 is inferior. So they don't play it.

Essentially, Brawl will be different from Melee. You can still play and have fun with Melee once Brawl is out but the majority of players will have moved on.

EDIT: This post is not meant to sound condescending to the OP.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Essentially, Brawl will be different from Melee. You can still play and have fun with Melee once Brawl is out but the majority of players will have moved on.

You underestimate how strongly some Melee players are attached to the game. I think even if brawl is a smash hit and we all love it, that there will still be tournaments and gatherings held for melee.

Heck, why not have em both at a tournament?

 

[Wolfblade]

Even if Brawl does remove some of the features that make Melee awesome (Which they most assuredly will), the game will still be great and just as fun as all it's predecessors. There will of course be people who will complain, whine and even hate that Brawl is in any way different from Melee, just like the people who cried when Melee was Different from Smash 64. But just like with this game, players will move on, become accustomed to the changes, and will have a great time.

For example, People cried and whined when Counter Strike Source was different from 1.6. They got over it and started playing Source. Some people still play 1.6 religiously and cry that anything that isn't 1.6 is inferior. So they don't play it.

Essentially, Brawl will be different from Melee. You can still play and have fun with Melee once Brawl is out but the majority of players will have moved on.

EDIT: This post is not meant to sound condescending to the OP.

Nicely put. If I could give you rep I would.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's pretty much impossible for Brawl to suck, so I'm not worried at all. If they take out something and add another, then so be it. Wavedashing may not be a glitch, but just because it may be taken out, doesn't mean it's the end of the world. For me, I find Melee mostly boring, despite its many options. Having many things doesn't make the game especially fun, but the simple things is what makes it great.

I want to practice, but there's nothing worth practicing against. The computer beyond suck, worse than the first Smash, so people without friends and siblings can't become very good at the game, or go to the highest potential. That's something the first Smash has. Plus, Smash 64 is much more on the fun side with how silly some things are. I just love those things overall.

 

[DXY!]

You underestimate how strongly some Melee players are attached to the game. I think even if brawl is a smash hit and we all love it, that there will still be tournaments and gatherings held for melee.

Heck, why not have em both at a tournament?

But, of course. Retro Gaming Tournaments happen all the time. In Fact, CAL and CPL, two of the biggest gaming tournaments around, still play Counter Strike 1.6 and Quake III for a comparison.

As for Wave Dashing, and all other "exploits" of sorts, while these techniques have come to be a regular part of Smash and are used by thousands of players worldwide, the blunt fact is that the game developers didn't intentionally design the game to be played that way. While it's an awesome technique which I'm positive that the game developers are quite aware of now, it is their choice whether or not a feature like Wavedashing will be featured in the game.

I can almost guarantee though that Wavedashing as it is now will not be present in Brawl. Regardless of how you feel about it, Wavedashing is a technique that was unintentionally placed in SSBM. If game developers do what they are paid to do, fix exploits, Wavedashing in it's current form will not be in Brawl.

 

[Ikural]

Some one said a ways back that Power talked about wavedash
Nintendo Power knows s*** about smash
they directly said in one issue that c-sticking was cheap
thats where all the noobs got the idea
c-sticking WILL be out
(no c-stick)

 

[Kazuya]

I'm just a tad worried about Sakuri saying that the speed of Brawl has been toned down, I was happy with the high paced action. Took some time to get used to it, but I'm fine with it now.

I'm worried it may end up a bit too slow where moves can be very predicatble

 

[Red Exodus]

I wonder if Nintendo would make 2 types of Brawl, one with advanced techniques and one without them or maybe a dumbed down verison of them. I highly doubt Nintendo would do that since the only franchise that has 2 versions [or more] of each sequels is Pokemon and we all know how successful that series has been, it just never dies.

I hope ATs stay in though, it adds so much depth to smash. When I watch vids with AT users the matches seem so fast and incredible, now when I play I feel like I just started.

 

[Blackshadow]

Oh no no no no no, they wont make 2 versions, remember we, SmashBoards, are a wee bit of the entire audience of smash. All of the n00bs are the ones who are really making the game sell, so the devs will cater for them much much more than us. And since we are so small, there wouldnt be any point in making another version, because they would lose monies.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

It's pretty much impossible for Brawl to suck, so I'm not worried at all. If they take out something and add another, then so be it. Wavedashing may not be a glitch, but just because it may be taken out, doesn't mean it's the end of the world. For me, I find Melee mostly boring, despite its many options. Having many things doesn't make the game especially fun, but the simple things is what makes it great.

I want to practice, but there's nothing worth practicing against. The computer beyond suck, worse than the first Smash, so people without friends and siblings can't become very good at the game, or go to the highest potential. That's something the first Smash has. Plus, Smash 64 is much more on the fun side with how silly some things are. I just love those things overall.

Hah before I loved Melee, I loved classic. Hell I even quit Melee with another poster on this board Demon_machine (a long time real life friend of mine) to play classic smash for 2 months.

Classic smash's reduced speed improved

1) Our combo ability (we were pretty much playing Isai's ''dont get hit rule'' as Captain falcon if either of us got a forward throw in, it was a 120% to death combo, ridiculous

2) Z / L Cancelling ability

We were pretty crap at melee, nowhere near tournament level but after going back to classic we came back and suddenly could SHFFL properly, so now we're pretty **** good at melee, but going back to the basics was a great idea.

About the whole wavedashing thing... I Just LIKE it. It works so smoothly, looks cool, has many uses, is really fun to do because of all the clicking from the gamecube controller.

I mean, without wavedashing, smash videos would be almost devoid of that ultra loud ''CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK'' that we know and love so much Drowning out final destinations music for over 3 years

 

[mario-man]

wolfblade, WDing is fast becoming the very core technique of my game, and I would be very upset if they take it out of Brawl!!! Gues what, I've never been to any tourneys. Wait, no tourneys, still needs WDing, something doesn't quite fit, right??

 

[DXY!]

I agree Dylan_Tnga. I have only been seriously playing Smash since November of 06, but I still think the sound that Gamecube controllers produce when a player is Wavedashing is almost comforting to a Smash Player :D

The only form of Wavedashing that will be in Brawl if any will be a watered down, only slightly similar technique that probably only requires a one or two button sequence that will be explained thoroughly in the instruction manual , if we are so lucky. What made Smash so popular originally is that it was one of the first fighting games to appeal to a general audience. It features recognizable characters, an easier damage mitigation system (% and opposed to Life Bars), and no combos that require multiple control stick rotations and button presses, making it very easy for people to pick up on the game, or to play casually.

By purposely putting something like Wavedashing in, they make some aspects of the game exclusive from the general audience. I know lots of people who don't Wavedash simply because they find it too difficult to pull off consistently, myself included. That goes against Nintendo's whole marketing strategy that they've instilled within the Wii: Games for Everyone.

I wouldn't worry too much about Melee AT being present in Brawl. I'm sure within the first 4 months of the game coming out, people will discover all sorts of new techniques, and complaining about Wavedashing being gone will be like complaining about the lack of N64 style throws in Melee

 

[Big Burn]

i have faith...

 

[yoshi_fan]

I have to get angry >.<

You say that Smash is only for noobs, and i DONT think so. Me, i play like a pro with a injurie in his fingers xd, and i like too much these noobs games.

Dont call noob someone you think is noob please, I think that games for noobs are actually one of the reasons by smash is actaully one of the best fight games, and no only that PRO player (i'm really sick of pro and noob, yes, you are bad or good, but no for that you ahve to say noob someone whose isnt so good like you

 

[DXY!]

I'm not aware if you are referring to my post, or the OP's, but at no point did I say Smash is only for casual gamers. The fact is that the game is designed for casual play. The thing that makes SSBM great is that it is a highly technical and refined fighter at the same time that it is a casual, easy to pick up party game. You can choose to play it either way. But the vast majority of players, the group Nintendo is marketing the game to, play casually. Therefore, Nintendo has to keep that audience in mind.

Nintendo has to balance both aspects, like they did with SSBM to make the game a real success.

 

[Justin]

Brawl is going to suck so bad...oh **** son. *puts hand over mouth*

No but really, I'm not worried. And I'm never going to jump in the "he is a noob, she is a noob" business...it's a little stale. Might aswell just start calling eachother pathetic...atleast that has a little more flavor.

 

[Alk]

i think brawl is going to be the best game ever

 

[Joner]

The preview videos that nintento has shown got me worrying too. it looks way too slow.

N00bs playing Melee looks just as slow. =)

 

[Red Exodus]

The trailers always look slow in every game. It's just to show off the basic model of the game.

 

[Ikural]

Thats a good point. Anyone can play a fast game slow to appeal to the audience...

 

[Mr.GAW]

Sensai, I had some trouble scanning the whole article, but here is the part you were probably most interested in:

Among other noteable things was a "Smash Debate" that argued C Stick vs. Manual

J.C.:
"So I use the C stick to put the smack down during a melee; what's the problem? While the self-titled "purists" whine that C Stick use provides an unfair advantage, the complaints only arise when they're losing a match. The GameCube controller was designed to make gameplay enjoyable for everybody, and I don't know about you, buy I have much more fun when I'm winning. What good is "artful" play if you're watching from the sidelines during the next match?"

Bill:
"I fully support use of the C stick by first time players who either don't understand the controls for doing A moves, or are simply incapable of competing at the same level as their opponents. That is what the C Stick is there for, and that is why J.C. uses it. Without it, he would never win a match. The C Stick is simply an aid for inexperienced players who need it. If you don't need it, you should be ashamed of using it."

End of Debate
As you can see, they really have no idea what they are talking about. However, it was still a good read.

Ken was also mentioned in the article as the best smash player in the world, and predicted characters for brawl were Olimar, Pit, Wario, Toad, and Walugi.

Their memory card had over 1,330 hours of multiplayer matches!

 

[S_B]

If Brawl somehow turns out even worse than Melee, then I'll probably just download SSB for the VC when they put it out there and forget the other two games ever existed.

 

[Ikural]

Yeah... thats exactly what i will do.
I hope they make a smash for DS.
that would be so pro.

 

[S_B]

That's another excellent question: why no SSB for either the GBA or DS?

Hell, a port of the N64 version on the DS would be MORE than doable.

But I should be clear: I think Brawl will turn out fine. Sakurai seems like he intends to improve on the formula but also see to it that the game is balanced.

 

[GoldenGlove]

Lmao at "It's mind-boggling to see in action".

 

[Linkster47]

As a Link user, wave dashing is not a extremely useful technique. I mostly use it for mind games and it is much more easy for Link to short hop to edge hog. L-cancelling is a must with Link, so is SHFLLing, teching is easy to do all togather.

As a Marth user, wave dasing is a must.

I think wave dashings importance in tourneys depends on what character you play as mostly.With that said, I think SSBB will be awesome.

Here's how the charts look for SSBB compared to other fighting games.

1.Other fighting games-:smiliegor -SSBB
2.Other fighting games-:laser: -SSBB
3.SSBB-:ouch: -Other fighting games

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That's another excellent question: why no SSB for either the GBA or DS?

Hell, a port of the N64 version on the DS would be MORE than doable.

But I should be clear: I think Brawl will turn out fine. Sakurai seems like he intends to improve on the formula but also see to it that the game is balanced.

You're forgetting that there's no D-Pad sensitivity, so Smashes are literally impossible. I'm sure they thought of this first before remaking a game to only have it not playable.

 

[Justin]

That's dumb, I didn't even know you could pick up and throw the voltorb thing. Then again chances of me getting a voltorb to appear are slim to none and the fact that I have had items turned off for as long as I can remember.

I don't even own a DS so it wouldn't matter to me if they put smash on the DS. I just can't play on small screens. That's why the television I play Melee on is a biggin'

 

[Ikural]

I think they could make something work....
O wait? Isn't there a touch screen!