Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?

[YangFuShang]

^^^
Jesus Christ man. Use some paragraphs if you want anyone to read that. It hurts my eyes just looking at it.

Dude Marth takes a lot of skill to play at a high level. Admittedly, noobs can pick up Marth and just fmash a lot, but being a skilled Marth requires very precise spacing. You don't see Ken/Azen/Husband spamming fsmashes. They chain fairs, they chainthrow, they tech-chase, and yes, if you step into that range you will get a tipper to the face.

I would say Sheik takes even less skill to pick up initially, but once again, you're not going to get very far with Sheik if you don't play really smart. Same with Peach.

Falco and Fox both take a lot of skill, but they are severely broken because they have no real counters.

Now Captain Falcon takes skill--you need tech skill AND mindgames to win. He's at a severe disadvantage against three of the most used characters--Fox, Falco, and Sheik. You have to know the matchups VERY well to even have a chance.

Actually azen f-smashes alot but he makes up for it with the other stuff he does and hes smart about it

 

[Coin you up]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvfu0xKsnPk

Made three years ago, this video reminds me that there was a time before wavedashing and tier lists dominated the message boards. There was a time when we all played just for fun.
Quote: Original Said by SuperDoodleMan

Yeah remember this guys?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

^^^
Jesus Christ man. Use some paragraphs if you want anyone to read that. It hurts my eyes just looking at it.

Dude Marth takes a lot of skill to play at a high level. Admittedly, noobs can pick up Marth and just fmash a lot, but being a skilled Marth requires very precise spacing. You don't see Ken/Azen/Husband spamming fsmashes. They chain fairs, they chainthrow, they tech-chase, and yes, if you step into that range you will get a tipper to the face.

I would say Sheik takes even less skill to pick up initially, but once again, you're not going to get very far with Sheik if you don't play really smart. Same with Peach.

Falco and Fox both take a lot of skill, but they are severely broken because they have no real counters.

Now Captain Falcon takes skill--you need tech skill AND mindgames to win. He's at a severe disadvantage against three of the most used characters--Fox, Falco, and Sheik. You have to know the matchups VERY well to even have a chance.

Quoted for truth. Shai for the WIN.

I hate this '' x character is easy'' bull****. Shiek, easy to pick up, sure. You think you're going to place anywhere near 3rd place in a tourney without smash skill to back your shiek playing up? I main shiek and I play her quite well, so well infact that I have about a 90% win rate vs the people I smash with. Vs EXPERT fox and EXPERT marth, expert anything I get creamed. Hell I almost lost to this extremly good ness player, closeset tourney match of my life but I came out the victor. A mewtwo actually beat me in a friendly match, he was QUITE good.

Get this out of your head plz. Just because your friend picks up marth and c-sticks you, or picks up shiek and ftilt-fairs you a bunch (and theres infinatly more to shiek than just tilt comboes) does NOT mean they are easy characters to win with at melee's highest level of play. Easy to pickup, months / years of training to win with.

k thx bye.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvfu0xKsnPk

LOL LMFAO. What a lame video, looks like I just turned melee on and let the pre-set gaming footage play.

 

[Coin you up]

I fixed my long post Shai.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Nice job on the paragraphs. Well the concept of your video isn't ''pathetic'' especially if it was made 3 years ago, just friends havin fun and I respect it.

But seriously it looked like the game was in slow motion, why would I have reason to be nostalgic over it?

 

[Coin you up]

heh before wave dashing was ever found this is how the game used to be. I know it has horrid quality but if you here people that are playing the game there having fun and no one here can ever say they never played smash like they did. I can't wait for SuperDoodleMans' last video the Tier Wars. I just thought I should post a video of how the game used to be fun.

 

[Coin you up]

sorry about the double post I had to edit it well the comp froze and I double clicked send sorry about MODs.

 

[Zephyr]

You might be nostalgic or not depending on whether you had fun in those times. XD

To Coin It Up's post, I really don't want to counter your misinformed arguments. I've countered them over and over again from other people, and the counters to your opinions are already in this thread. If you want be that way, wallow in your own cesspool of ignorance. Don't splash it all over us.

EDIT: That was in response to Coin It Up's first post.

In response to the double post above me (good job on that, BTW), that is how the game used to be. A lot of people still play it like that. A lot of people play it competively. I find both to be incredibly enjoyable. The game didn't just "used to be" fun, it still is fun today. It's just up to you to make it fun for yourself.

~

 

[Coin you up]

Well one I'm not being arragont. No I'm just saying people should expect change and if Wave Dashing is taken out of Brawl it doesn't mean its gonna suck. Look how long were gonna have to wait for the game of course its gonna be good. I mean Sakurai is not going to give us a piece of crap in box.

 

[kirborg]

I'm curious how nintendo is developing SSBB, technically speaking.

Do they copy a large portion of the previous SSBM engine? Is this normal for these kinds of games? Or are they most likely going to create this game from the ground with a fresh engine?

(I'm an not a programmer in any way, so if these questions seem silly then never mind them)

If they were to copy the base code from SSBM then there's a much higher possibility of Wave Dashing being included. If not then you might as well kiss it goodbye, since it was an unintended bug.

The way I see it Nintendo created SSBM for casual gamers. The side-effect exploits were more then welcome for those who play this game competively, but I highly doubt it was intended that way. It could be considered "luck" that these glitches were in the game, because they allowed the more serious players to really advance in their game style.

So if they are going to create a new game from the scratch, then all we can do is hope that they overlook the more interesting glitches, which have the potential of being used for high-skilled matches.

 

[Zephyr]

Well one I'm not being arragont. No I'm just saying people should expect change and if Wave Dashing is taken out of Brawl it doesn't mean its gonna suck. Look how long were gonna have to wait for the game of course its gonna be good. I mean Sakurai is not going to give us a piece of crap in box.

I never said you were being arrogant, I said you were being ignorant. I know perfectly well that Brawl won't suck if WDing is taken out since the game is going to be aerial-based, not mainly on the ground. Sakurai isn't going to make the game crap. But your opinions of wavedashing and other advanced techniques such as the L-cancel are biased due to your main character, you pretty much say so in your post. They're just plain wrong. I can explain why if you like.

 

[Coin you up]

Oh I see sorry for the misinterpratation. Yeah its just I don't want to post something that people might see it in a different way you know. I don't wanna offend any one . Yeah its biased. Some people thought it was part of the game some think its a glitch. For me I dunno I really can't say anything I don't have a AR to tell frames and phy's engine and such.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

would you believe me if I told you I never played ''for fun'' as you guess have so affectionatly named it (I wouldnt play smash brothers if it wasnt extremly fun for me, jeez. but fine I play competitive, you guys play ''for fun'' just lables)

I mean sure, for like.. a week when me and my friends started playing we had to unlock the ****, so we checked out the items and crap and new characters as we unlocked em.

But once we got final destination unlocked, we really just.... started learning advanced techniques and playing 4 stock MLG rules MLG stages...

 

[Coin you up]

I play Smash for 3 reasons. Competitve Play, Practicing New Tech's, and For Fun. When I play with my best friend Its Competitve Play. When I play by my self I practice Wave Dashing and L-Canceling. When I play with my other friends other then my best friend its for fun.

 

[Zephyr]

Well, I'll clarify then.

Wavedash- The sliding action achieved when a character air-dodges at an angle of 181-359 degrees relative to the ground. It is labeled as "landfallspecial" in AR, which is also the term used for characters landing when after a completed air dodge or Fox and Falco's up-B's. The move is a result of exploitation of the physics engine and therefore not a glitch, but an exploit.

L-Cancel- The technique was in SSB64 and left in in Melee, though its effects were halved. This is by far the most important advanced technique as most of the game is aerial/SHFFL based and pretty much dominates the competitive atmosphere. If this is taken out I will seriously consider not buying the game. I can only assume that since the Brawl trailers out so far look like the speed of casual Melee, the game with l-canceling will be close to or equal to the speed of Melee. Good stuff.

So there you go. Neither of the techniques are "glitches", as you call them. The more controversial is not as important as some believe, but whatever. I hope you aren't as ignorant from now on.

 

[Coin you up]

Blam been waiting for some one to say that. Now I know and now I hope that they will keep L-canceling. L-canceling is the only thing that make's me Mario deadly . Thank you for leting me know this Zephyr.

 

[Devastlian]

Wavedash....is labeled as "landfallspecial" in AR, which is also the term used for characters landing when after a completed air dodge or Fox and Falco's up-B's.

The Action Replay doesn't discern wavedashing as a move in itself; it just gives you the name for the animation that happens after hitting the ground after an airdodge. It's the same animation used for landing after most characters' upwards B moves and any other move that leaves you flashing black and white when the move is completed in the air. So, when it says "landfallspecial", when you wavedash, it's telling you you airdodged into the ground.

 

[Zephyr]

The Action Replay doesn't discern wavedashing as a move in itself; it just gives you the name for the animation that happens after hitting the ground after an airdodge. It's the same animation used for landing after most characters' upwards B moves and any other move that leaves you flashing black and white when the move is completed in the air. So, when it says "landfallspecial", when you wavedash, it's telling you you airdodged into the ground.

I just said that. o_0

 

[Razgriz]

As a Marth player with wavedashing solidly integrated into my metagame and overall maneuvering I would cry if they took out wavedashing, and quite possibly switch mains.

 

[Shai Hulud]

As a Marth player with wavedashing solidly integrated into my metagame and overall maneuvering I would cry if they took out wavedashing, and quite possibly switch mains.

If Marth even makes it back. Which he probably won't. I doubt they will keep both Fire Emblem characters, and noobs like using Roy, so I'd bet on Roy being included over Marth. Or it might be entirely new Fire Emblem characters, but I'm sure there will be at least one Japanese swordsman.

All I really care about is that Captain Falcon returns, this time with a hot pink outfit, and takes his place in the God tier. Or at the very least give the guy a real recovery. It's so sad seeing my awesome Falcon get gimped all the time

 

[Devastlian]

I just said that. o_0

Oh, okay...I'm just reiterating it to cover any holes or misinterpritations that seem to occur a lot with stuff such as this.

Also, if Roy is removed then that man of African descent that Mr. Sakurai mentioned would be disappointed. I'm surprised Roy supporters don't quote that since he was one of the few characters mentioned (the only non-confirmed returning character).

 

[cu00x19]

I doubt that Roy will be in Brawl; he was just a promotional character to get people to by Fire Emblem 6, the Sword of Seals. That game is the "sequeal" to FE 7, Rekka no Ken, aka The Blazing Sword for the American GBA.

With Roy gone, what about Marth? He's the FE mascot, being in FE 1 and three, he made a cameo in FE 7 (intro), he's a freakin dragon slayer! Why take him out? I play Marth, but I have to say, nerf him. It's better than removing him completely.

As for over FE chars, I'd definately say Ike from PoR(Path of Radiance). I see him in Brawl b/c of PoR's great success in America, and quite possibly even some FE 7 chars, like Hector and Lyn.

However, FE 7 wasn't too pleasing in Japan so IKD...

0H GW4D! I want Lyn for Brawl!

BTW, L-Canceling was in the original SSB and was god compared to Melee's. In the original, ZERO lag. In Melee, half Lag. SSB>>>>SSBM in L'Canceling.

~Life

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

If Marth even makes it back. Which he probably won't. I doubt they will keep both Fire Emblem characters, and noobs like using Roy, so I'd bet on Roy being included over Marth. Or it might be entirely new Fire Emblem characters, but I'm sure there will be at least one Japanese swordsman.

Why would they remove the one character that lead the franchise to where it is today? I doubt that they will remove him,and even since when was"X character usage" was a deciding factor on which character stays? It seems that all of these"Conditions" seemed to be pulled out of someones ***,because I never heard of any specific conditions.

All I really care about is that Captain Falcon returns, this time with a hot pink outfit, and takes his place in the God tier. Or at the very least give the guy a real recovery. It's so sad seeing my awesome Falcon get gimped all the time

True,Falcon is one of the best characters.He needs a storable Falcon Punch!!

 

[cu00x19]

I don't see C Falcom leaving, I mean he moved up in rank(original smash he was a hidden char; melee he's there right off the bat), he's got his own Anime(anime rocks in Japan), his own game that Fox's DAD cameos in!! Storable Falcon Punch? Sounds nice~

Has anyone watched it on youtube? His Falcon punch in the anime.
Copy this link and witness"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FFtw7qW7Vcw

Imagine that in Brawl as his Super Smash.

Epic.

~Life

 

[Shai Hulud]

True,Falcon is one of the best characters.He needs a storable Falcon Punch!!

/jizzes self

They need to let Falcon actually use that gun he's holstering. Make B his gun and make down B a storable Falcon Punch. And trade recoveries with Pikachu. Then Falcon would be God tier, no doubt.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

My friend thinks the only character in the game should be falcon

He's among my favorites too.

 

[Brawlmatt202]

My friend thinks the only character in the game should be falcon

He's among my favorites too.

Was he kidding or serious?

...Well, that was a dumb question.

 

[Sensai]

....yes, that was a dumb question.

Let's change topics: How would you guys feel about friend codes in Brawl?

 

[Brawlmatt202]

....yes, that was a dumb question.

Let's change topics: How would you guys feel about friend codes in Brawl?

Well, I haven't used any Friend codes yet, so I guess I don'thave any opinion on the matter.

 

[Keige]

As long as you can import friends from your address book on the Wii, I'm fine with it. All of my friends will be in it. But I want to be able to fight random people as well. Your friends aren't going to be on whenever you want to play.

 

[Sensai]

In MK for the DS, you can race against random people.

However, communications with random people is completely impossible. No lobby system is present, nor is there any way to easily become friends with said persons.

 

[Zephyr]

I would prefer a system much like Tetris DS: Friend Codes are usable to play against friends at will while there is also a worldwide matchmaking system in place. This is an ideal concept, but it could be improved upon.

 

[Keige]

We need the Rivals system from MP:H. See a SWF member? Add him as a rival after the game!

 

[FreakoFreako]

I think Tetris DS Online is cool.

Play against random people OR friends with Friend Codes. I also like its Ranking. Only lists wins and Points. I mean, you can boast about it, yet it's not to the point where you want to hack, so it's not pwnt by hackers.


I don't think we need to worry about SSBB sucking. Sakurai made two awesome SSB games, no?

 

[El HP]

Quoted for truth. Shai for the WIN.

I hate this '' x character is easy'' bull****. Shiek, easy to pick up, sure. You think you're going to place anywhere near 3rd place in a tourney without smash skill to back your shiek playing up? I main shiek and I play her quite well, so well infact that I have about a 90% win rate vs the people I smash with. Vs EXPERT fox and EXPERT marth, expert anything I get creamed. Hell I almost lost to this extremly good ness player, closeset tourney match of my life but I came out the victor. A mewtwo actually beat me in a friendly match, he was QUITE good.

Get this out of your head plz. Just because your friend picks up marth and c-sticks you, or picks up shiek and ftilt-fairs you a bunch (and theres infinatly more to shiek than just tilt comboes) does NOT mean they are easy characters to win with at melee's highest level of play. Easy to pickup, months / years of training to win with.

k thx bye.

What an idiotic statement is pretty obvious you need to know how to play to win the fact is those characters are easier to use, you know the thing is that im tired of seeing the same characters over and over again by the way choose another character anyone can play as sheik try using DK, Ganon or Falcon to beat a fox, falco, sheik that takes real skill and that's why I like those characters.

 

[Keige]

I think Tetris DS Online is cool.

Play against random people OR friends with Friend Codes. I also like its Ranking. Only lists wins and Points. I mean, you can boast about it, yet it's not to the point where you want to hack, so it's not pwnt by hackers.


I don't think we need to worry about SSBB sucking. Sakurai made two awesome SSB games, no?

True. The only thing that could possibly suck about Brawl is it's online play and as much as I am looking forward to it, the offline multiplayer is more important to me. Online is awesome when you can't have someone over to play with but it will never beat the awesome Smash parties my friends and I have.

 

[Zephyr]

LOL, it takes a whole lot of skill to beat Fox or Falco with DK. You're absolutely right about that.

~

 

[Sensai]

Keige, you bring up a good point that I happen to stress a lot, too. Regardless of how well done, or how badly done, Smash Online is, it'll never replace good ol' in-your-face Smashfests.

 

[Razgriz]

Keige, you bring up a good point that I happen to stress a lot, too. Regardless of how well done, or how badly done, Smash Online is, it'll never replace good ol' in-your-face Smashfests.

I think whether or not it lags and how much it lags will determine what effect it will have on the number of tournaments and smash fests held.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

What an idiotic statement

Coming from the guy that couldn't even do this ^^

is pretty obvious you need to know how to play to win the fact is those characters are easier to use, you know the thing is that im tired of seeing the same characters over and over again by the way choose another character anyone can play as sheik try using DK, Ganon or Falcon to beat a fox, falco, sheik that takes real skill and that's why I like those characters.

Ah yes, but once again it all comes down to the players skill. If you and your friend are equal in skill, he knows how to play fox relevant to the potential he has as a smasher at the time, and you know how to play pikachu (as you are pretty good with him) Your fox friend will likely win. However, if you were to surpass him in skill, your pikachu would reflect your power and defeat a fox who was slower to react / predict DI and all that pro nonsesne that isn't really character specifc that affects your game.

When you get to a point where you are among the top best players in a tournament, chances are the top tier characters will be picked, but you never really know. A good ice climbers, a 1337 donkey kong, an unbelievable UAIR miracle mario.. anything controlled in skilled hands could be falco/fox/marth/shiek's demise.

So really it's all relevant, find a character that you are comfortable with, and realize that smash brothers goes far beyond which character you pick.

:bumper: