Who else is nervous about Brawl potentially sucking?

[Devastlian]

It does go to it, mario-man. I linked to the first part which has links to the rest.

 

[mario-man]

It didn't go anywhere before. There was no link, it was just words.

 

[Thunderslf]

I still think wavedashing is a glitch, it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be used at all and people using it should be shunned, but I see how it would be considered cheap if used against an unexperienced gamer. I wouldn't really mind if it was taken out of Brawl because I never use it, but it being taken out of Brawl won't make it suck, it'll just be different.

 

[Devastlian]

Ya, you must've gotten to it before I editted the first time.

Actually, Thunderslf, I think that, if wavedashing remains and people use it online, Nintendo's gonna get a lot of reports of people hacksorzing or 'sploiting. And then the N-Sider boards and Game***** will be flooded with people complaining about all the "cheaters". Then, they'll find out about SWF and flood this place...There are dark times ahead, everyone. :/

 

[Superstar]

I think most of use won't be playing against random people, Friend matches all the way. Less disconnecting, better opponents, 1 on 1, its just awesome.

 

[Blackshadow]

I could understand why. I wouldnt wanna get on your badside, I've been lurking these forums for wayyyy longer than I've been posting on em, and your posts were always enjoyable, and your siggyr is funny despite me not understanding it.

But yeah I did mean scrub in the literal definition, someone with a bunch of made up preset rules in his head that stop him from ever truly competing, not as an insult.

Unless once again, bake is strongly against wavedashing but realizes it's uses in melee, then he wouldn't be a scrub.

His definition of WDing as a glitch matters not, all that matters is if it stems into his melee playing, or his opinions on how other people should play the game, and judging by his STRONG reactions against the technique I am guessing he is against it and those that use it, not that WDing being a glitch is meerly his opinion.

Thanks and yeah I don't understand my sig either XD

OK, I understand what you were trying to say now, and i fully agree with you. So yeah, sorry for accusin you.

 

[Burning Lava]

Hmm, unrelated to recent comments, but about the title of this thread...

I was just thinking about the speed of the game. Sakurai supposedly said something about it being moderated right? We all took that to mean slowed down. Well, I'm just really starting to get worried about this (more than usual) because, well, let me ask a question. Does anyone remember the feeling they got while playing Melee for the first time? It felt a nice little bit faster right? OK, it felt A LOT faster to me, but I was up for it, meaning it was a challenge, and would make mastering the game just a little bit more difficult. (a good thing) Now imagine the sinking feeling you will get when you pop in your shiny new SSBB disc into your Wii, and start your match.. with N64 Smash speed! Sure all the mechanics for a deep fighter will be there, heck, I wouldn't even be terribly surprised (maybe just relieved) if wavedashing is in, BUT at even a marginal percent drop in speed could potentially make the game a lot less deep and challenging in that when trying to play mind games, well... just try having a good exciting bout of mind games with an opponent in slow melee mode.

I was hoping to explain this a bit better, anyone know what I'm talking about? I guess basically I'm scared they'll drop the speed back a notch to make it "easier," while not realizing that messing with the speed is a dangerous thing. If anything leave it the same exact speed. We're not asking it to be upped a notch or anything. It will just feel sluggish for the first few months or so even if the speed is knocked back just a bit.

Fortunately, that's what it appears to be according to the trailers. The "just a bit" part I mean. For one thing, as someone already pointed out, it seems a bit slow because it isn't pro fighting, it's just same basic jumps and attacks so people can see some characters moving around on a stage. Another thing is... well, it's just hard to tell at this point. The trailer hasn't necessarily even shown players running at top speed (much?) except for that one shot of Pit in trailer 2 just running. He seemed to be going fast enough to make for a good game at least. Way faster than old Link in Melee anyway. Anyway, just keep hoping for the best, I know it seems like we're screwed, but this game could blow all expectations out of the water.

One other thing. Crawling. I thought it was kind of a stupid or needless addition at first, but lately I've started wondering about it. Personally, I already like to kick and stab at people's feet with various characters, but now I can presumably set myself up for it easier... well maybe. The thing I'm wondering about though, is will this introduce a new set of moves for everyone? A crawl weak hit, tilt, or even smash? A crawl up tilt/counter? Someone is flying at you from above and you crouch and grab them as they come down? OK, maybe not, I just thought of that now, but you get the idea. New moves are bound to happen.

One idea I've been kicking around that I'd really like some feedback on is grabbing in the air. I mean, who hasn't wanted to grab your opponent (who's trying to edge guard you) as you're coming back, and throw them any direction and be propelled in the opposite direction? So basically you throw them toward their doom, while throwing yourself toward the center of the stage. Bowser can almost do it already. Would it deepen things up or just change the game play in favor of jump grabs constantly? Before you shout the latter, all they would have to do is give favor to the forward A, so hitting would be more likely than a successful grab, kind of like a uair is favored over a dair. Well, sorry if I offended anyone with the extreme length of this piece-o-mind.

Edit: This is SOO not going to happen, but it seems like it would be an easy compromise to have an "expert" setting that just slightly nudges up the speed without going overboard like lightning melee. The default would be slower, but the Wii would save your settings, so you only have to set it to "expert" once. AGGGHHHH!!!!!! WHY CAN'T WE FREAKIN CONTACT SAKURAI ABOUT THIS CRAP!!!??? Sorry, moment of frustration.

 

[Superstar]

I looked at the trailer. The pace of action is definitely slower in the trailer, but the attack speed looks almost exactly the same. What seems different is that the characters fly off at a slower speed, and stay stunned for a while, so that would mean more combos, as you can chase them after hitting them.

Since the attack speed seems almost the same, mindgames should still be easy to pull off.

 

[JoinHIMinDeath]

I have some doubt that the game will live up to it's potiential like Super Smash Bros. Melee. it's only a little doubt, however it's still there. I'm happy to hear that there is no date announced for Super Smash Bros. Brawl for US, which means that Nintendo is taking their time with this game and making sure that it's gonna live up to it's hype. There are rumors that the date for Japan's release for SSBB will unfortunately be by the end of this year. If that's the case which it hasn't been confirmed yet, then we won't have the liberty of seeing the game until next year. I on the other hand would rather wait patiently for the game if it will mean that Super Smash Bros. Brawl will spectacular.

 

[Pure of Heart]

I suppose im kinda worried about Brawl, but Sakurai has given us two great games so far, (SSB and SSBM) so im not TOO worried. Because remember, it's Sakurai in charge here, he knows what he's doing.

 

[JoinHIMinDeath]

I suppose im kinda worried about Brawl, but Sakurai has given us two great games so far, (SSB and SSBM) so im not TOO worried. Because remember, it's Sakurai in charge here, he knows what he's doing.

This is most certainly true. Good call.
I hope he never decided to sell his project.

 

[Excel_Zero]

I believe in Nintendo. Even if they remove advanced techniques (which I really hope they don't) then I'll try to enjoy it without them. And who knows... maybe there will be new stuff and there won't be any need for wavedashes. Just try and think positively ppl! =]

 

[Linkster47]

Wow... This thread got tons of posts since I left. I got grounded from internet and games for a week and it was very boring. Anyways... I hope that Brawls online play is more trustworthy than MPH's. Whenever I play that game some @$$ disconects from me or hacks. It's a great game and all, but it is so hard to finish a game against someone. I think they'll do a good job with most of the other things unless they change the gameplay, I'm talking about characters moves (clones don't count). Imagine if Link's upB was a bomb throw or if foxs B was a strong kick. That would be hard to adjust to, so yeah, I'm gonna go call a store to see if they have any Wiis, I doubt they will

 

[Ikural]

they wouldnt make up b a non recovery attack unless they were removed completely.
they definantly would make such a drastick change if they could keep it the same with no bad effects.
up tends to DI up so if down b was recovery move it would be stupid
no one is that stupid.
excpessially Sarukai.

 

[Zephyr]

no one is that stupid.
excpessially Sarukai.

Jigglypuff and Yoshi.

LOL.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

Remember, the people that Sakurai is working with has played a lot, I mean A LOT Melee, so I think they know what are they working on. Trust Sakurai!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zephyr]

Where did you get that? I'm curious as to the source of that comment.

 

[Classic-Black]

Where did you get that? I'm curious as to the source of that comment.

I know it's on the official site, and I would'nt be surprised since Sakurai made the original and Melee, and SORA consists of people who have played Melee extensively

 

[Superstar]

Source: http://www.smashbros.com/en/story/page_3.html

Also remember, this is Japan. I assume there are less scrubs in Japan than America, so we might still be safe.

 

[LinkGadra]

In the Dojo section on the making of the game, Sakurai's team shows him their files on Melee. It had over a thousand hours on it. Sakurai himself had trouble believing it until he saw it.
These people know Smash, so I have no worries for Brawl.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

In the Dojo section on the making of the game, Sakurai's team shows him their files on Melee. It had over a thousand hours on it. Sakurai himself had trouble believing it until he saw it.
These people know Smash, so I have no worries for Brawl.

1000 hours of what is the question. I hope it was 1000 hours of 4 stock no item play on tournament approved levels, because then theyd really understand the meta-game and could probably make a really good sequel.

Like someone said, its Japan. I really doubt there would be as many noobs there as there are here.

*Has a bit more hope for brawl*

But not much, Im a pessimist about this game, but hey if it turns out great than its just a big suprise for me.

 

[Red Exodus]

I want more levels likely to be aproved by MLG and other tournaments, as in stages without things that can be abused like Termina's bottom right platform which is an instant kill for anyone backthrowed onto it [assuming you character throws voilently and slightly upwards, e.g. Fox, [maybe] Marth [at higher percentages], Samus, Mewtwo ICs].

But I still want stages like Termina when I'm just chilling and passing time.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Yeah im crossing my fingers for Hyrule Castle from the classic smash bros with no tornadoes. I love the tornadoes just for the wacky AI they have and , when someone flies out of one you can spike him back into it, thats always a funny as hell combo, but yeah in brawl if they had classic hyrule castle with no tornadoes itd be sex.

 

[Zephyr]

" To create a game like Super Smash Bros. Melee, I would want a team with a minimum of 50 people. Getting together that many people would be a back-breaking task."

This really encourages me, as it tells me that Sakurai plans on creating a game that has an impact of the same or greater magnitude as Melee.

 

[Red Exodus]

They should bring that back for sure, I was pissed when I bought melee and found out it wasn't unlockable, Yoshi's story isn't that great I prefer the old hyrule over it anyday.

 

[Superstar]

Oh yes, the old hyrule was my favorite level.

1000 hours of what is the question. I hope it was 1000 hours of 4 stock no item play on tournament approved levels, because then theyd really understand the meta-game and could probably make a really good sequel.

Like someone said, its Japan. I really doubt there would be as many noobs there as there are here.

*Has a bit more hope for brawl*

But not much, Im a pessimist about this game, but hey if it turns out great than its just a big suprise for me.

I think it was no items. During my [mega] noob days, I felt that items were not reliable to show skill, so I played without them. After 1000 hours, they SHOULD have stopped playing with items, because you don't play 1000 hours just to "chill".

I doubt 4 stock, most likely 3 stock, and I think that they most likely did all courses.

If you live your life in pessimissim, you'll never feel good. Ok, I am still pessimissitic, but not as much.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Yoshis story kind of sucks. As does kongo jungle, *****' jay-z bull****.

Oh I'm not a pessimist in general (I doubt I'm spelling that right) I just don't see how melee could be improved upon, so I assume brawl will be worse.

 

[Zephyr]

You don't see how Melee could be improved? It's not perfect, you know. The game can be unbalanced for many characters. Why do you think there's a tier list?

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

I'm-a-glad that mah comment made your hopes for Brawl higher . BTW, doesn't it excite you that Sakurai might be working on your fav character while we are writing???

 

[blazefox]

Wow, I was gone for.. 3 days? and this thred hit page 37
About the comment above: ..... Anyone who reads game informer knows what I'm talking about:
Fox has butt implants, and now brings the boys to his front yard .
rofl!!!

Sakaurie has changed fox to for the worse..
I'm afraid to see what Saukarie is doing to others...

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

Yup this thread is HOT. BTW Afro Samurai fo' Brawl

(I'm-a-joking!!!)

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

You don't see how Melee could be improved? It's not perfect, you know. The game can be unbalanced for many characters. Why do you think there's a tier list?

Tier list applies. But skill matters more. If a player is better than you, he can beat you with ANY character he knows how to play. When players are on even skill, the tier list comes into effect. This is what I believe anyway and I've found it to be quite accurate. Really good players can rip through high tiers with low tiers if they have better mindgames and overall skill/reflex and combo ability with a low tier.

As if Brawl wont have a tier list... get real... The tier list is definatly not something that makes Melee imbalanced... I think all characters have a fighting chance if you have the skill to play em, but again if the guy is equal or better than you, high tier > low tier.

 

[Zephyr]

True, but the designers have the ability to make the game much more balanced. Therefore, Melee can be improved upon.

 

[Superstar]

Tier list applies. But skill matters more. If a player is better than you, he can beat you with ANY character he knows how to play. When players are on even skill, the tier list comes into effect. This is what I believe anyway and I've found it to be quite accurate. Really good players can rip through high tiers with low tiers if they have better mindgames and overall skill/reflex and combo ability with a low tier.

As if Brawl wont have a tier list... get real... The tier list is definatly not something that makes Melee imbalanced... I think all characters have a fighting chance if you have the skill to play em, but again if the guy is equal or better than you, high tier > low tier.

Hmm, that's true. That's why I main Mario, who's middle Tier. I am trying to pick up Samus and Fox so I won't be too vulnerable [I know I cannot go to a tourney, but yes, I can dream]. Of course, specific character matchups still apply. Its mostly low tiers that need improvement.

 

[blazefox]

Balance= how?

Melee is pretty well balanced imo. The only improvemensts I could see coming would be new maps/ adding ssb64 maps. Then again, they could Not change the clones entirely and break their promise of renewing the clones.

 

[Red Exodus]

If every single character was balanced the game would be boring, I don't mind that some characters have disadvantages while others have good advantages and few disadvantages.

 

[Superstar]

Well, when I say balanced, I don't mean every single move is the same. I mean every character can perform decently against other characters [aside from specific advantages]. Have every character require a different style, and have different pros and cons.

For example, make Pichu have a wee bit more speed and slightly more defense [SLIGHTLY]. He won't be as weak anymore. Give him more range and less lag, and he is almost overpowered.

 

[Burning Lava]

Yeah im crossing my fingers for Hyrule Castle from the classic smash bros with no tornadoes. I love the tornadoes just for the wacky AI they have and , when someone flies out of one you can spike him back into it, thats always a funny as hell combo, but yeah in brawl if they had classic Hyrule Castle with no tornadoes itd be sex.

Dude, I've always wondered why they chose not to include that level in Melee! I mean, DK levels are nice, but come on, that's all I ever used to play on with Smash 64. It'd be awesome if they included Hyrule Castle, but with updated graphics, (don't really care though) and possibly even the option to turn tornadoes off.

Anyway... yes, I'm trying to have faith, all you optimists, but I'll just try not to get my hopes up too high for now. I really do trust Sakurai. Seriously. But at the same time, Nintendo is(are) on a crazy casual/non-gamer kick, and may be putting the pressure on SSBB to be a bit more friendly/accessible. (As if it wasn't accessible enough already. Psh.) "Oh no! Our party game turned out to be a hardcore fighter, and people are loving it!
Quick! Simplify, Simplify, SIMPLIFYYY!!!"

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

As for the tiers thing. Tiers aren't the only factor, theres skill #1, Tiers.. but then theres also this

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2862/phannassbmcharactermatcdp9.gif

Counter list. This actually is more relevant than the tiers. Deals with specific matchups

Superstar : I don't main mario at all, but I dabble in him. My friend always insults me because he thinks doc is much better but I just prefer mario, dunno why I just do. I'm not half bad with mario, Ill post some vids of me playing him when I get the chance so you can see how I stack up to you, maybe learn something from my probably different play-style.

Im new at mario though, I have good Mindgames with him and spacing but I lack comboes... I really, really like him though hes VERY fun. My main (shiek) is fun for me to play, but not as much so as other characters, mostly because when I play her vs my friends (pretty high skilled) I win 90% of the time. Shes the only reason I made it out of pools in my first tourney last week, haha I tied for last place (30th) with like 8 people, but my first bracket match was vs the best player in the east coast. I got ra3ped.

But I digress, if you havent, check out that counter list, and bookmark it.

 

[Zephyr]

Mario's SH -> double bair -> Waveland combo potential for mindgames is huge. I love it.