Whitewater, WI Tournament 5/5/07 SUPER HAPPY FUN TIME!!! *venue confirmed, again*

[Fastest]

Fastest is coming? How random.

It's a block away from my apartment, and Tapion isn't entering. $_$ $_$ $_$ $_$

 

[Cherokee Warrior]

It's a block away from my apartment, and Tapion isn't entering. $_$ $_$ $_$ $_$

if i go i might enter. G.F.S. $$$$$$$$$

 

[Tongji]

Fastest!!! Dude I hear that you have a nice M2! We totaly need to get some friendlies in! Im going to try and make the turny but as on now in not 100% sure that I can go. on the flip side IM GOING TO UW WHITEWATER for school!! woot! anyway if I can go Ill try and bring N00k as well. Hope to see you all there!

 

[James Sparrow]

Wow, I'd love to be at this tourney... More than ever because Fastest is going. How've you been there buddy? Haven't seen you on these boards in a while.

 

[Fastest]

Wow, I'd love to be at this tourney... More than ever because Fastest is going. How've you been there buddy? Haven't seen you on these boards in a while.

I quit tourneys a little bit before Tapion did. I just don't like traveling. I never feel on top of my game when I reach my destination, and I get fatigued towards the end of the event. I feel that if I ever did make it to the finals at a very large event, I'd simply fall asleep halfway into the first round. Plus, I always felt like I was throwing away a day, since the game isn't new and exciting anymore. I used to go to tourneys to see crazy strategies and approaches to the game- but those are mostly played out.

Luckily, I can practically roll out of bed and attend this thing. Plus, there will be a ton of scrubs- so things will get to the decent matches quickly.

Honestly, I'm just waiting for Wii smash. I can't stop feeling that the game would be 1000% better if I could patch it to fix annoyances and design flaws.

 

[James Sparrow]

Yeah you're right about that. Stuff like wobbling, stalls, etc... those would be cool to get rid of. That is too bad you're not traveling anymore, but understandable. Hopefully there will be another tourney around you that I can make.

 

[eighteenspikes]

yea I'd go too, but again it's my birthday and I'm already scheduled to work. Fastest, are you going to the Odiez on May 19th? If you are I'll $10 MM you

 

[Quaz]

You got a $10 mm offer from me too if I go to this, if not then you should indeed go to Odiez where I can mm you there.

Its free money for you, c'mon now.

 

[Fastest]

Sadly, I'm not going to Odiez. It's the day before I'm supposed to move out and there will most likely be lots of cleaning and chores to do.

I'll take any matches at the one on may 5th. Spikes, you said the 5th is your birthday? That's unfortunate, because then we could have a birthday match, as it's mine too.

 

[Fastest]

Yeah you're right about that. Stuff like wobbling, stalls, etc... those would be cool to get rid of. That is too bad you're not traveling anymore, but understandable. Hopefully there will be another tourney around you that I can make.

Oh, more like...

If Fastest Could Patch Melee

Features/Bug Fixes

1) Allow players to choose if they want the control stick to jump.
2) Allow players to remap their buttons! Why every game doesn't allow this is beyond me!
3) Remove wavedashing's dependence on the character's friction.

This one will need some explanation. If for some reason, you wished to increase Shiek's wavedash range potential, you would have to reduce her friction. Unfortunately, this would also effect everything else Shiek does while on the ground. By decoupling a wavedash from friction, you will be better able to fine-tune the game. Note that this does not change wavedashing at all. But it allows more control over each character and allows designers to balance individual aspects of the character instead of making global changes. Of course, the game will need to recognize a wavedash as a feature. (Assuming I had Melee's full source code, this wouldn't be a problem. But I don't, so just ignore any arguments about how wavedashing isn't officially "part" of the game.)

4) Remove phantom hits....
5) Remove/Fix crash bugs. (Just listing this for posterity's sake.)

Derandomization

As a rule, serious fighting games rarely have unpredictable occurrences. The community has done a great job at removing randomness by banning items and certain levels in tournaments. However, parts of the game could still use some fine tuning.

Examples are:

1) Remove "Shy-Guy DI", but keep the little dudes in because it's awesome to hit them.
2) Remove Arwing shots by Fox's crew. Or, at least make them predictable by showing a graphic where a random shot will occur. (Perhaps the target from SF64?) This would preserve their randomness while adding a fair tactical element into the game. THROW YOUR OPPONENTS INTO THE SHOT!

Fastest's Opinion Section

1) Make the shield cover 100% of the character at all times.

Yes, that's right, I said it. Make the shield like it was in 64! If you don't agree with me, try and play Mewtwo or G&W seriously or for money, and cry when you get hit while shielding. This change will not hurt mid/top tier. This will HELP low tier, as many low tier characters tend to have shielding issues. Also, preserve the properties that light/hard shielding gives to characters in regards to sliding. For example, preserve how light shielding as Yoshii or Luigi makes them scoot around.

As a result of this change:

2) Weaken the shield so it is more easily broken by normal moves, and severely weakened by charged smashes, and special "shield-breaker" moves such as Marth's neutral/b.

You rarely see shields broken... but I think you should. 99% of the time, a character with a weak shield will simply be nicked in the feet/head/tail. Perhaps during development, when HAL added the "small shield" feature, they didn't realize that shield breaks would almost become removed from the game.

Fastest's Balance Opinions

In fighting games, balance isn't entirely relieve in the sense that top tier chars are better simply because they have *stronger* moves than low tier chars. Top tier chars are at the top because they have more options available to them. Most designers have the wrong idea when they balance fighting games. Instead of boosting the low, they take away from the top. This only hurts the game as it removes options from the playing field that would otherwise take the game to different levels. This is part of the reason why smash is so amazing. It's very unrestrictive and allows for a lot of creativity. Thus, to help balance the game, I don't advocate hurting the top-tier, but rather give things to the low tier.

Mewtwo

1) Improve over/b recovery.
2) Make projectiles reflected by over/b capable of hitting people/things.
3) Give Down/B the same shield-breaking properties of Marth's neutral-b, and allow it to hit a shield even from behind. However, people can still avoid the move by facing away and not shielding.
4) Improve back/air startup frames to make it almost instantaneous damage.

I do feel that M2's hitboxes are too large. However, it would be too much to change M2's hitboxes along with the global shield change. Further tweaking to M2 will be needed "post-Fastest patch". I do suggest perhaps making his tail a disjointed hitbox like Marth's sword.

M2 is an extremely defensive character. He has a hard time advancing because he's out prioritized and surprisingly bulky. The back/air change will give Mewtwo a way to advance, yet it will keep him facing away such that he can't advance and abuse his arguably overpowered Smash 64-like throws. The down/b change will give M2 a way to keep pressure on.

Yoshi

1) Give the poor guy the ability to jump out of his shield! This will be especially needed because shields will be weaker, and he'll need a way to escape his egg.
2) Fix all hitboxes concerning his tounge and how it goes "through" people.
3) Let him grab the edge during certain frames of his airdodge.
4) Swap input of his up/b and neutral/b so people can throw his eggs easier. I've seen many Yoshi's who waste their second jump because they tried to throw an egg. This isn't a problem if you're a decent player, but even pros waste jumps every now and then. (If control-stick jumping is disabled, this won't be an issue.)

Bowser

1) Increase horizontal speed and acceleration of up/b while on ground.
2) Put flame-canceling back in as a feature!
3) Reduce startup time of up/air but reduce damage and knockback.
4) Reduce matrix-like startup time of down/b, and increase damage it does to shields like Marth's neutral/b.
5) Reduce startup jump frames.

An idea I've been working with in my head with bowser, is to remove his down/b, and make that his neutral/b. Then, make his neutral/b a fireball which travels straight much like Luigi's. But, if used in the air, the projectile is shot downward at a 45 degree angle. This may help him advance and keep fast characters from crowding him.

G&W

1)The shield change should fix a LOT of G&W issues. Poor guy gets hit with a 100% shield nowadays.
2) Decrease empty bucket recovery on successful projectile absorbtion, but increase recovery on a miss. - Just an attempt at making this move viable.

I have a whole document about this, but this is the current version of my "wishlist" I have at work. Let it be known that if Wii smash sucks, I'll be "porting" (remaking) Melee onto the PC as an exact copy of the original. (Or wii, as I have the SDK... just need to mod a wii now to have it run homebrew stuff.)

 

[Undefined]

my list is WAY better. yours was dumb as hell.

 

[Tapion013]

shut up rick...

 

[Amish Ninja]

I will go, but I'm not sure if I'll enter or not. Are you good on setups, Mun? I can bring a 20-something inch TV + a cube.

 

[element_of_fire]

fastest for prez <3

 

[lonejedi]

Fastest is alive! Nice list Fastest, I find it sad that you are not into travelling, we still have yet to play each other. I'd want you to come to CC5, but Tapion said, you prob can't make it. Glad to hear you're still somewhat interested in Smash. I wish I could make this, but I have work, and I don't feel like travelling 2 hours this saturday.

 

[Mundungu]

I will go, but I'm not sure if I'll enter or not. Are you good on setups, Mun? I can bring a 20-something inch TV + a cube.

We can definately use some more setups, it looks like more people than I thought will be there. I'd like to be able to run the tournaments at the same time as having tvs open for free play (for Wii sports, guitar hero, etc).

 

[Tongji]

Ya about me going, not going to happen. I have a Track meet. And I have to run the mile

 

[Tapion013]

Ya about me going, not going to happen. I have a Track meet. And I have to run the mile

What's up with all these smashers having physical activities that they participate in? What happened to the stereotypical smasher; smoke pot, get drunk, and inactive. Seems like you can't be a smasher anymore unless you have a job, play a sport, or... well I guess getting drunk is still a smasher thing.

 

[Black Hayate]

What's up with all these smashers having physical activities that they participate in? What happened to the stereotypical smasher; smoke pot, get drunk, and inactive. Seems like you can't be a smasher anymore unless you have a job, play a sport, or... well I guess getting drunk is still a smasher thing.

or get kinky lol

there is still some smasher that dont' have a job and not in any sport @_@

Jeff we should play some GH2, i'll bring my guitar lol

anyone want to watch kinky anime???????

 

[Tapion013]

Hayate, this is NOT the place to talk about your **** hentai!

And yes... I may be willing to play some GH2

 

[James Sparrow]

What happened to the stereotypical smasher; smoke pot, get drunk, and inactive.

You just described chansen perfectly.

Nice list Fastest, all of that really makes sense. I want to see the rest of it.

 

[alcheato]

I guess I'll be going to this. If anyone needs a doubles partner, hit me up.

 

[Quaz]

it would totally rock if jazzness can house at my place the night before the tourney, but I think my house is too far out of the way =(

 

[KirbySSB]

hey i think I can make it now

 

[Tongji]

Wow I cannot belive that Im saying this again.... But my Track coach decided to rest me this weekend. So I can DEFINATLY GO to this thing.

Ill bring
N00k
T.V
Cube


also Is anyone going to get a recording setup??

 

[alcheato]

Yup. I'll bring my DVD recorder. I haven't used it so I may as well break it in.

 

[Tongji]

sweet!! I would love to get some M2 matches up!!

 

[Quaz]

I was gonna bring my VCR too if I still go, which I might, but Im not sure yet

tongji we need to play, like everyone except for me has played you in Wisconsin rofl

 

[Tongji]

sure we will definatly get some friendlies in! btw who do you main??

Because frankly I don't think that we have met. But nice to meet you!

See you there

 

[Jazzness]

it would totally rock if jazzness can house at my place the night before the tourney, but I think my house is too far out of the way =(

I'm comin' to this with my gf the day of, sorry Quaz!

We'll get plenty of friendlies in over at the venue, I'm sure.

Hayate, we need a team name.

Oh, I almost forgot ... Who wants a $MM? (Bo5, White rules)

 

[alcheato]

So who still needs a doubles partner? I have plenty of practice vs the Jazzness so I can't be that bad .

 

[Amish Ninja]

I need a partner, but there is a small chance I'll be teaming with someone else if they agree to go (we've had practice as a team). I'm a doc main who can also play Ganon, Link, and Y. Link to some degree.

 

[Quaz]

hmm I STILL dont know if Im going yet or not.. but I'l lfind out tonight

but if I am, kssb... please consider teaming with me! :D :D

 

[KirbySSB]

I shall consider it!

possible team partners as of right now:
Tar
Quaz

Hey jazzness $2 money match best of 5? I don't even know who you are, lol, but I really need to play the IL people as I'm going to be going to college there in the fall.

 

[Mundungu]

KSSB, we need to friendly some more. We played one game at fuhgethoteaojfda;oj, but it was yoshi's story

Jazzness, we need to play some friendlies at this! You ran off before we got to play at Huge Johns And what exactly does (B05, White rules) mean?

 

[Jazzness]

Bo5 = Best of 5
White rules = using the rules and stage set of the tournament we're attending, which is White

 

[OF 'til I OD]

Bo5 = Best of 5
White rules = using the rules and stage set of the tournament we're attending, which is White

This isn't White.

 

[Quaz]

but its still white water

I'd say it close enough =)

 

[OF 'til I OD]

White =/= Whitewater.

imo anyway. I don't see how it does...

 

[Jazzness]

Oh I didn't know white isn't whitewater. .. i'm not from wisconsin, i thought it was how you guys called it.

So KSSB for a $2 MM?

Anyone else?