what stages to ban?

[Aiko]

I'm a space animals and marth player, what do you think would be the best stage to ban in tournaments?

I have problems with peach, jiggs and samus, due to lack of experience, so i'm thinking DL64, but I'm also tempted to ban DK64. What would people reccomend?

I don't like DL64 because of the size, especially for the big recovery character but I don't like DK64 because of the high ceiling and hard to sweet spot edges. The advantage of DK64 is the short sides though.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Definitely ban DL64. I've never had anyone counter pick on a Donkey Kong level against me, particularly not a peach, samus or jiggs. It's likely you'll get counter picked on something like Mute City if it's peach or a moving stage. DL64 is also on random, so having it banned for the first match means that no matter what, marth will have a good stage.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^I don't know. I've had a lot of good Peach players say that they'd rather fight Marth on YS than Dream Land because Marth is so f'ing hard to kill. Sure Peach lives longer, but I think that advantage applies just as much, if not more to Marth. Not to mention that Peach is easier for Marth to edgeguard than vice versa, so Marth gets an even larger life advantage. I personally prefer to ban FD against Peach because I want to have a platform stage as an automatic for my first match. Platforms make KOs easier for me because I like shield stabbing and tech chasing people on platforms.

 

[Aiko]

I dont mind FD because my space animals are pretty good on it. Marth is more of a counter pick character, eg, if they choose fountain of dreams, or something. From my experience though, i have a hard time killing on DL64, and FD is about even with peaches.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

You may have a hard time killing on dream land, but you are also much harder to kill long as you di smart.

I wouldn't go fox on dreamland though considering how much harder it is to vertical kill..you could use platforms to help but still not pleasant..falco's recovery is pathetic so he won't be living very high anyway..but marth can really thrive there long as you know what you are doing..and he can spike relatively easy against peach and samus to end their long lives...

For the most part, everything is a double edged sword, just get experience on the levels and deem what you feel is best..I personally love DL64 against anyone.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I dont mind FD because my space animals are pretty good on it. Marth is more of a counter pick character, eg, if they choose fountain of dreams, or something. From my experience though, i have a hard time killing on DL64, and FD is about even with peaches.

I think Falco does much better on FoD than Marth because Marth really doesn't get to take advantage of those platforms. If they were a little higher and didn't move then it could be really good for him, but as it is it's just giving the opponent more ways to approach you.

 

[Brightside6382]

I personally prefer to ban YS against other Marth players and DL64 against everything else ^_^.

 

[TedBoosley]

I ban FD a lot, especially against Falcon and Doc/Mario.

I ban Dreamland against Samus and Peach. (But I get counterpicked to Japes or Corneria against Samus, which sucks, but at least Dreamland is off the random this way.)

 

[sagemoon]

arent you allowed to ban 1 neutural stage and 1 counterpick stage? maybe i just heard the rules wrong from someone, i always get confused on this cause im from WA where canada comes down to our tournaments w/ their rules and stuff.

 

[Sephiroth M]

Ban the one you get your *** kicked on

 

[Brightside6382]

Ban Big Blue, Marth does pretty bad there

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

arent you allowed to ban 1 neutural stage and 1 counterpick stage? maybe i just heard the rules wrong from someone, i always get confused on this cause im from WA where canada comes down to our tournaments w/ their rules and stuff.

No, you can't. If that were true, then there would be matches with 4 stages banned, and that has never happened in any of the local or MLG tournaments I've attended. Each person picks one stage to ban.

Follow Sephiroth M's advice - ban the stage that's worst for you.

 

[knightpraetor]

question..should i play fox marth falco or sheik when i'm counterpicked on jungle japes? i have exp there with fox marth and sheik only though..i found it annoying approaching falco camping though...it was slightly easier with marth i think to get through it though..the nice sword range

 

[FrostByte]

Sheik's needles can take care of camping opponents on that stage.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

dl64 yeah yeah

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

question..should i play fox marth falco or sheik when i'm counterpicked on jungle japes? i have exp there with fox marth and sheik only though..i found it annoying approaching falco camping though...it was slightly easier with marth i think to get through it though..the nice sword range

falco has tons of really cool movement tricks on that level, combined with laser spam, makes him probably your best choice.

edit:: heres a good vid of forward vs darkrain on that stage, showing you why it favors falco over fox. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkfBqaMF1aU

 

[knightpraetor]

ya i noticed sheik can jump on the middle platform and shoot needles down at side campers pretty easily..or just stand straight and needle as they come up while the falco/fox has to work to hit..i guess that's easier than approaching with marth there..fox's lasers semi-compete there..i don't enjoy fighting like that though oh well you don't always get what you like

 

[Bullet Bill]

I dont mind FD because my space animals are pretty good on it. Marth is more of a counter pick character, eg, if they choose fountain of dreams, or something. From my experience though, i have a hard time killing on DL64, and FD is about even with peaches.

It's a shame that you think you have to counterpick in some way to win. I really think you should play fox more for 2 reasons. 1. he owns 2. You will get better mindgames with fox if you practice WITH fox not with marth.

 

[Havokbringer]

Wow way to insult your own crew members.What you say is wrong you don't develop better mindgames by playing certain char , thats just ********.Marth is an awesome char but he has too many Disadvantages on DreamLand64.1.It's almost impossible to f-smash someone on a platform above you on that stage(and it's a bit hard to u-tilt as well).2.He always been considered hard to kill with and the amount of space on dreamland doesnt help that.I will agree that DL64 is an excellent stage to ban but I wouldn't ban your worse stage over your chars worse.It is better to realize why your so bad at that stage and learn to avoid those mistakes because that stage could be someone else's worse stage too and if you become better then them on that stage , no on every stage then it will only help you in the long run.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

It's almost impossible to f-smash someone on a platform above you on that stage(and it's a bit hard to u-tilt as well).

Almost impossible to fsmash someone on a platform on DL64??? When is it ever possible?

 

[Aiko]

i might be wrong but im think the platforms are the same height as those of battlefield, so you can just aboutfsmash them when they're directly above you, so you hit with the peak of the fsmash.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

i might be wrong but im think the platforms are the same height as those of battlefield, so you can just aboutfsmash them when they're directly above you, so you hit with the peak of the fsmash.

Fact: Battlefield platforms are lower than DL64
Fact: Battlefield platforms can give fsmash tippers
Fact: DL64 platforms cannot give fsmash tippers (or any hit at all), only utilt.

 

[Levitas]

Or tippered Usmashes, lol

 

[Wireframe]

I agree with the post further up about improving on your bad stages though, if my opinion is worth anything i'd say ban DL 64 :D

 

[theONEjanitor]

a good rule of thumb is to alway band DL64 against peach and jiggs.

DK64 is a great peach stage, but a lot of peaches aren't aware of that...but DL64>DK64 for peach

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

basically, your ban should be based on what their best stage is first, then banning your worst (or finding a middle ground). example: vs falco ban DL64 or PS because the stages cant be chain grabbed on and are far from the edges (harder to gay). personally id say DL64 because platforms on PS can help you, along with the transformations being generally good for you, compared to DL64 where you can DI well to stay alive but platforms are bad for you (while good for his combos) and wind tends to **** your over when spacing (especially edge guarding, you dont get tipper and then get hit T_T). obviously fast fallers are insanely afraid of FD because of chainthrow lol, but i will cover it. FD gives falco the advantage with lasers (no platforms to avoid with, plus range). if you can, set up your controller ports so you spawn next to him (1 and 3 spawn on left while 2 and 4 are on right; 3 and 4 might be switched). next get a grab. uthrow him until he realizes he lost and quits out lol (or until ~32% then utilt a few times then fsmash off the stage and edgeguard).

 

[Dark Sonic]

a good rule of thumb is to alway band DL64 against peach and jiggs.

DK64 is a great peach stage, but a lot of peaches aren't aware of that...but DL64>DK64 for peach

A lot of Peach players don't like DL64 when fighting Marth. In that particular matchup, I'd ban something like PS or FoD. Peach has a very hard time killing you because of how hard it is to edgeguard Marth. You both live to extremely high percents, so the extended life of Peach isn't much of an issue. You actually live longer because Peach is easier for Marth to edgeguard than vice versa, and Marth still has an easier time outright killing Peach than vice versa, even though you can't continue any combos. A simple up tilt or up air can be you best friend when both of you are living up to 200%. You could even kill them with a tipped fair. I think that stage is actually more advantageous to Marth gives both characters full use of their recoveries (with Marth's recovery being harder to edgeguard) and emphasizing the need for a high percent quick kill move (Peach has the nair, uair, d-smash, and f-throw, while Marth has the fair, uair, utilt, and ftilt, and up B if needed.) The size of the stage allows Marth to properly space himself, without feeling pressured to do so.

 

[shinkazenokizzu]

i mostly ban fd for falco reasons

 

[AS Money]

A lot of Peach players don't like DL64 when fighting Marth. In that particular matchup, I'd ban something like PS or FoD.

Why ban FoD she shorter sides makes it so peaches float recovery is less useful and she actually dies sooner

Much less i think FoD is a great marth stage

and Poke Stadium is another good marth stage with a lot of platforms that can be tippered from

Kirby 64 peach NEVER DIES(unless you fight her like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuGk3IzLqxU) and most peaches like the level

then again if you are a marth you shouldn't have much of a problem with peach

 

[Levitas]

What's worse for a marth against a peach or jiggs, though, Mute city or DL64? I mean, sure peach and Jiggs recover from anywhere on DL64, but as a contrapositive, marth doesn't recover from anywhere on Mute city. That landing lag from the Up-B kills. And I'd view the platforms as being slightly beneficial on DL64 against Peach, as it limits her mobility, and makes her unable to throw a turnip and hit from any horizontal position on the stage.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Why ban FoD she shorter sides makes it so peaches float recovery is less useful and she actually dies sooner

Much less i think FoD is a great marth stage

and Poke Stadium is another good marth stage with a lot of platforms that can be tippered from

Kirby 64 peach NEVER DIES(unless you fight her like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuGk3IzLqxU) and most peaches like the level

then again if you are a marth you shouldn't have much of a problem with peach

peach doesnt care about her recovery. she would gladly sacrifice her recovery for a lot more killing power. FoD is a good marth stage at pretty much any other time (not against a sheik).

PS doesnt have a lot of tipper platforms (and who gets kills from platforms these days anyways? i havent seen one in forever) it has at most 2 at one time. and they are really far apart. worst stage to try to get a platform tipper (where its possible).

What's worse for a marth against a peach or jiggs, though, Mute city or DL64? I mean, sure peach and Jiggs recover from anywhere on DL64, but as a contrapositive, marth doesn't recover from anywhere on Mute city. That landing lag from the Up-B kills. And I'd view the platforms as being slightly beneficial on DL64 against Peach, as it limits her mobility, and makes her unable to throw a turnip and hit from any horizontal position on the stage.

exactly!!

i mostly ban fd for falco reasons

marth >>>> falco on FD

 

[Dark Sonic]

First of all I'd like to point out that Marth's recovery is by no means bad. In terms of distance it's actually really good. Marth can live just as long as Peach, provided he has room to do so. Peach's attacks lack killing power, it's all about damage. She easily racks up the damage on you, but that's pretty much it. Marth will be dealing just as much damage because Peach is easy to combo, so most kills will be from edgeguarding, or a high percent KO on large stages. Marth's kill moves and edgeguards are more lethal than Peach's, so Marth will have an easier time killing. Peach's kill moves are faster and less risky, but they aren't as powerfull, so they're much more effective on a smaller stage.

 

[Mew2King]

I don't think Peach is very good on DK64, the big platforms are too high for her to reach quickly without using the umbrella. Ban DL64

 

[Dark Sonic]

I don't think Peach is very good on DK64, the big platforms are too high for her to reach quickly without using the umbrella. Ban DL64

The Smash God has spoken.

But, seriously, can you explain why so many Marth players ban DL64 against Peach. It just seems like Peach really wouldn't want to fight Marth there.

 

[Sliq]

The Smash God has spoken.

But, seriously, can you explain why so many Marth players ban DL64 against Peach. It just seems like Peach really wouldn't want to fight Marth there.

Peach will live forever.

 

[Overswarm]

I'm a space animals and marth player, what do you think would be the best stage to ban in tournaments?

I have problems with peach, jiggs and samus, due to lack of experience, so i'm thinking DL64, but I'm also tempted to ban DK64. What would people reccomend?

I don't like DL64 because of the size, especially for the big recovery character but I don't like DK64 because of the high ceiling and hard to sweet spot edges. The advantage of DK64 is the short sides though.

Ban DL64, as it has natural "anti-Marth" tendencies and Peach, Jiggs, and Samus can live for a very, very long time on these stages.

If someone picks DK64 and picks Peach, Jiggs, or Samus, you can run along the top platforms out of reach and constantly laser/back air them. Just don't fight them head on and they can't catch you.

 

[Levitas]

Yes, but what about mute city? Marth gets wrecked by his inability to recover there, even from relatively short distances. I understand DL64, but which is worse?

 

[Sliq]

Yes, but what about mute city? Marth gets wrecked by his inability to recover there, even from relatively short distances. I understand DL64, but which is worse?

Mute City doesn't come up on Random. You should ban DL64 and then win the neutral, that way if you lose on a gay Jiggs counter, you still have your counter pick which you should win on, given that you get to both pick the stage, see his character, and then pick your character.

If you ban Mute City, and DL64 comes up on Random and you lose, you will then have to win on their gay counter pick, which would be unlikely.

Jiggs basically loses on campy stages if she is behind, especially to Fox.

 

[AS Money]

marth >>>> falco on FD

I would still say even cuz of the **** lazers or atleast not four greater thans maybe one

Marth≥falco on FD

(and who gets kills from platforms these days anyways? i havent seen one in forever)

Do you play drunk people they **** up ways to tech on platforms all the time it is very fun

 

[Dark Sonic]

Peach will live forever.

So will Marth. I don't see what the problem is there. Against Jiggs I could see the problem becuase Jiggs is much better at edgeguarding than Peach, but Marth is actually a very good tank. He's no Gannondorf, but man he can live forever on that stage.