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what stages to ban?

Overswarm

is laughing at you
Joined
May 4, 2005
Messages
21,181
So will Marth. I don't see what the problem is there. Against Jiggs I could see the problem becuase Jiggs is much better at edgeguarding than Peach, but Marth is actually a very good tank. He's no Gannondorf, but man he can live forever on that stage.
Marth's prime % to kill Peach, Samus, and Jiggs are all the same. 60%-90%. Past 90%, it becomes very difficult to get a knockout, seeing as how they are all almost impossible to edgeguard.

Unfortunately, this isn't the case for Peach, Samus, and Jiggs. Each of the three have multitudes of opportunities and tactics that allow them to edgeguard Marth, and if Marth is hit ONCE by anything that does any knockback whatsoever after he's used his jump, he's finished. DL64 won't keep Marth's stock around nearly as long as it will keep Peach, Samus, or Jiggs stock.
 

ArcNatural

Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Boston, MA
Marth's prime % to kill Peach, Samus, and Jiggs are all the same. 60%-90%. Past 90%, it becomes very difficult to get a knockout, seeing as how they are all almost impossible to edgeguard.

Unfortunately, this isn't the case for Peach, Samus, and Jiggs. Each of the three have multitudes of opportunities and tactics that allow them to edgeguard Marth, and if Marth is hit ONCE by anything that does any knockback whatsoever after he's used his jump, he's finished. DL64 won't keep Marth's stock around nearly as long as it will keep Peach, Samus, or Jiggs stock.
Agreed. DK64 is better than dreamland. Shorter horizontal boundaries give you more chance to kill and here the edge gives both sides the advantage rather than on mute city where only Peach gets the advantage.
 

Ryan-K

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 23, 2003
Messages
3,107
Location
Staten Island, NY
Ban dk64 because marth loses his whole "oh hi you are above me i will **** you from down here with my masamune" game, and plus peach samus jiggs can make it back to the barrel really easy and you cant hit them out of it, plus if they make it to a top platform you cant edgeguard them really.

At least dreamland you can still live long and it doesnt really stop you from edgeguarding or anything, plus projectile camping is really easy on DK.

Have you ever tried to edgeguard on DK? The ceiling is retardedly high first of all, second of all if they recover high you have no options at all really because of how the platforms are. Plus its harder to recover there because of the wierd edge, and the ease they have of getting to the barrel far outweighs the (slightly) smaller sides DK has.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
Marth's prime % to kill Peach, Samus, and Jiggs are all the same. 60%-90%. Past 90%, it becomes very difficult to get a knockout, seeing as how they are all almost impossible to edgeguard.

Unfortunately, this isn't the case for Peach, Samus, and Jiggs. Each of the three have multitudes of opportunities and tactics that allow them to edgeguard Marth, and if Marth is hit ONCE by anything that does any knockback whatsoever after he's used his jump, he's finished. DL64 won't keep Marth's stock around nearly as long as it will keep Peach, Samus, or Jiggs stock.
Peach doesn't have many good edgeguards on Marth. All she can do is throw turnips out and hope you get hit by them. For the case of Samus and Jigglypuff, yes I could see how they would hurt Marth's recovery, but Peach is pretty much stuck on the stage and practically lets you back on.

I disagree with that 60%-90%. Jiggs and Peach are still really easy to kill with an utilt or uair. That percentage marks where Marth's combos stop working, so he can't combo into his strong f-smash or dair, but as soon as you get over the 120% bump then you can start to use vertical killing tactics rather than horizontal ones. Utilt eats through all of Peache's attacks, and that neat side B to uptilt combo suprizes a lot of opponents. I particularly like using the up throw and watch them struggle to get back onto the ground against your uair.


I agree with the above poster on his points on DK64. That level is so much worse than Dreamland. I still wouldn't ban it because I can't stand fighting Peach or Samus on FoD becuase of the cramped stage and I'd rather ban that.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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Wait....wait..Peach doesn't have good edge guards?

Joke post right?

Ban DL64.

Topic over.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Location
Orlando Florida
Wait....wait..Peach doesn't have good edge guards?

Joke post right?

Ban DL64.

Topic over.
Not the Peaches I play against. They have a lot of trouble edgeguarding Marth. They're only real edgeguard on Marth is that dropping the turnip and floating to the edge trick. That's still pretty easy to get past the majority of the time, so I don't consider it a good edgeguard.

I think Peach has some pretty amazing edgeguards, just not on a good Marth. Most of the Peaches I play against are afraid to float out to hit me becuase most of the time I just fair them out of it or, in their worst case scenerio where I still have my second jump, I can even ken combo them out of it.:laugh:
I seriously don't get many edgeguarding problems from Peach, so they normally have to actually kill me off the sides, which takes a very long time.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
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Messages
21,181
Not the Peaches I play against. They have a lot of trouble edgeguarding Marth. They're only real edgeguard on Marth is that dropping the turnip and floating to the edge trick. That's still pretty easy to get past the majority of the time, so I don't consider it a good edgeguard.

I think Peach has some pretty amazing edgeguards, just not on a good Marth. Most of the Peaches I play against are afraid to float out to hit me becuase most of the time I just fair them out of it or, in their worst case scenerio where I still have my second jump, I can even ken combo them out of it.:laugh:
I seriously don't get many edgeguarding problems from Peach, so they normally have to actually kill me off the sides, which takes a very long time.
I suggest going to a tournament, generally a Peach player will edgeguard you there.
 

Sliq

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
4,871
Can Peach do the Marth killer trick? I would assume she could if she FF's it. If Samus can do it, Peach should be able to. There is an edgeguard right there, and especially effective one if you constantly drop below the edge to avoid turnips and aerials.

Just so you know, anytime you mention "your friends" or anonymously, "the peaches that I play" (which implies that you play them frequently, which implies you know them well, which implies friendship) when referring to a tactic or technique being unnecessary or ineffective, you come off looking like a scrub. Your friends aren't the only people who play this game. If you don't plan on going to tournaments and stuff, that's fine, but don't come here and misinform people that do go to tournaments about what a character can and can't do.

All a peach has to do is float out towards the Marth backwards and then wait and see what he does. You try to fair, she stays out of your range until you miss and bairs you, gg. You try and go below her and up b, she falls out of her float and grabs the ledge (before or after the up b, which ever is more suitable).

Marth doesn't immediately grab the edge from his up b, so all you have to do is fall from above the ledge, from behind the Marth, and grab the edge after his up b and he dies. I do it with Jiggs sometimes when I can't bair like a maniac.

Ask Overswarm. He knows ; P
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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I'm 95% sure Peach can do it.

I have had it done to me by Peaches in tourney so I'm gonna say she can do it.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
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I do go to tournaments quite often, it's just that I don't go out of state much and Peaches are rare here because of the overpopulation of space animals. The Peaches that I play is reffering to the ones that I often fight at gigabits, which is the local tournament that I often go to. It could be that they're just bad at edgeguarding Marth specifically, but they really have a lot of trouble killing me and I just thought that it was a common thing.

What I'm saying is that I didn't think Peach has an automatic edgeguard on Marth like the lightshield edgehog->reverse knee, or Samus's falling nair and stuff like that. Any character can technically edgeguard you, it's just that Marth can also defend against most edgeguards pretty easily.

In that floating close to the edge scenerio, why doesn't Marth just fall lower, and then actually hit Peach with his up B? It seems fast enough that you should be able to react to Peach canceling her float and just hit her. If Peach decides to nair or bair instead of just dropping to the edge then you'd just get hit into the stage and easily be able to tech it.
 

Overswarm

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I do go to tournaments quite often, it's just that I don't go out of state much and Peaches are rare here because of the overpopulation of space animals. The Peaches that I play is reffering to the ones that I often fight at gigabits, which is the local tournament that I often go to. It could be that they're just bad at edgeguarding Marth specifically, but they really have a lot of trouble killing me and I just thought that it was a common thing.

What I'm saying is that I didn't think Peach has an automatic edgeguard on Marth like the lightshield edgehog->reverse knee, or Samus's falling nair and stuff like that. Any character can technically edgeguard you, it's just that Marth can also defend against most edgeguards pretty easily.

In that floating close to the edge scenerio, why doesn't Marth just fall lower, and then actually hit Peach with his up B? It seems fast enough that you should be able to react to Peach canceling her float and just hit her. If Peach decides to nair or bair instead of just dropping to the edge then you'd just get hit into the stage and easily be able to tech it.
Just trust us. I've played a few wicked peaches, and they definitely know how to edgeguard a marth. Peach is a lot faster than Marth in this situation, and if you go low, they just grab the edge or Marth Killer and you die. You also have to go low due to turnips and floating b-airs. Peach can edgeguard Marth just fine, and DL64 helps her a million times more than it helps him.
 

Emblem Lord

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Peach can just float out low and do a Bair when Marth is much farther from the stage. If he jumps to hit her then he may end up using his jump earlier then he wanted and dying anyway. Plus she can just bair and float her Bair into him which would increase the chances of them trading hits.

Very bad for Marth.

Peach can edge guard Marth quite easily.

Marth has an easy time getting around edge guards?

What?

Marth is easy to gimp. Very easy.
 

Dark Sonic

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Just trust us. I've played a few wicked peaches, and they definitely know how to edgeguard a marth. Peach is a lot faster than Marth in this situation, and if you go low, they just grab the edge or Marth Killer and you die. You also have to go low due to turnips and floating b-airs. Peach can edgeguard Marth just fine, and DL64 helps her a million times more than it helps him.
I guess I'm just gonna have to take you word on this one. I really should go out of state more.:laugh:

Everyone here either plays a space animals, or has adjusted their styles to beat space animals. They also stangely all second Shiek as soon as they fight me.:laugh:

I wouldn't say Marth is that easy to gimp.
Then again that's coming from someone who is almost always fighting Fox, Falco, and Shiek. A lot of people get gimped when they try to gimp me. It's actually quite funny.
 

Aiko

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 12, 2007
Messages
2,276
Location
Manchester, UK
thanks for the advice everyone, im pretty sure im gonna ban DL64 since its a random stage out the way, meaining 2 good levels for fox and marth. I also worked on DK64 for a bit so im at least familiar with the level.
 
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