What is your most hated criticism against your most wanted character?

[Perkilator]

[/QUOTE] Master Chief (yes I know it's a long-shot, but it'd be badass): "He has no history with Nintendo!"
Explain to me what history Cloud had with Nintendo.[/QUOTE]
Chain of Memories for GBA, Re:Coded for DS, Final Fantasy Explorers and both the Theatrhythm games. I know that’s a small history (especially given they’re all spin-offs), but it’s a history at the least.

 

[Captain Shades]

This is a hilarious one because the entirety of the Fire Emblem roster are mostly one-offs.

Being a one-off doesn't mean they shouldn't be in Smash. Popularity among communities should imo.

I don’t agree. Fire Emblem is literally a series comprised of characters that appear for two games or less, where as Zelda has a base cast that’s consistent throughout the series. The two are different in how they handle main casts, so the same rules should apply to smash. Why should a Zelda one-off deserve a spot over say Impa, who has consistently been in titles since Ocarina of Time and is an important character. While communities should pick characters, I do think one offs can be in, but they need to be big such as Skull Kid, the character that wears Majora’s Mask, a mask that has become a symbol for Zelda in the same vain as the Triforce.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

After K. Rool, I've sort of got my most wanted, but that just made me want the ones under him even more!
Heres some I could think of;

Lip (Panel De Pon); "She has never appeared outside of Japan !!!" Not Lip's fault, that's Nintendo. Also, when exactly did Lucas from Mother 3 get out of Japan? (outside Smash, which is what we want Lip to do as well.)

Chibi-Robo; "Zip Lash killed his franchise, he does not have any future!". True that the game did not sell very well, but it does not mean that the character itself is rubbish. Even so, that could be said for many franchises.

Skull Kid; "He is just a one shot character, he's not important, nor does he have a lot of moveset potential.", complete and utter bull****. The character has appeared 3 times in the mainline games, and it's the same Skull Kid. The Mask has a lot to do with the lore, and moves he has a lot of. Plus he is popular.

Geno; "Why does anyone even like a one-shot wooden irrelevant doll from 20 years back?". Uhm, that's biased. He has remained somewhat popular when it comes to Smash, and people do what they can to keep him alive, and look at how much that has payed off thus far. Geno is almost a lock now!

Black Shadow; "F-Zero is dead, and does not deserve a new character, and besides, you just want him to take over Ganondorf's moves." True, F-Zero itself might be dormant at the moment, and yes, I do want him as an echo, but not just as an echo, I'd take anything F-Zero related anyways, and with my favourite F-Zero pilot an Assist Trophy once again, I go to my third favourite (second is Falcon). Still, why is it so hard for people to see? I see people wanting Ninten as a bloody echo. (No offence to Ninten fans), but Earthbound got 2 characters already, and F-Zero only 1.

Dixie Kong; "She would only be an echo of Diddy Kong and she is not an Nintendo All-Star." After Chrom echo means a whole lot, really, so partly fine with the build being based on Diddy, but her moves could be very different. Also, how can not the second Nintendo heroine (after Samus) not be a bloody All-Star?


There are more, as can be seen by my signature, but I guess that does it for now.

 

[candyissweet]

"Isaac has no moveset potential."

I agree with this because I saw a picture of Isaac and he has a sword, therefore he would obviously just be another Marth clone.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

Sora's the one I can think of with an argument I dislike against him.

"He'll open the floodgates to cartoon/anime characters" which I think is silly, like somehow Sakurai will just decide "WELP! TIME TO SHOVE EVERYTHING ELSE IN NOW!". Honestly Sora is first and foremost a video game character, the main character of his franchise, and while it does contain Disney characters, he's at the point where he could hold his own without Disney characters and stuff, too.

Honestly I just don't like "They'll open the floodgates" arguments, like the casts of Smash games aren't pretty curated bunches.

Some other arguments I see are just blind hate because Kingdom Hearts I suppose.

For my most wanted character, Shantae, I don't really have an argument I hate, 'cause I can usually just be like "I could see that but still I don't think that" so I'm just having to pick one of my top 4.

Well for shantae, one I can see is the "since shovel Knight couldn't be playable neither can she!"

 

[Fane]

"She's a pacifist."

THIS!

I've seen this argument on another forum, and like seriously? By that logic these characters like Wii Fit Trainer and R.O.B. shouldn't be fighters because they don't fight in their home games.

It holds no water and is a poor excuse as to why a character shouldn't be in Smash. If there's moveset potential, then it's totally possible.

 

[SilentSentinel]

Banjo/Geno/Isaac/Any older, not-super relevant character: "Irrelevant! Who is this? Kids today won't know who this is!"

Irrelevance has always been a poor argument against a character to me, and I'm glad this game is looking to ignore it in favor of ballot popularity. A character being popular when they are constantly getting new games and promotion is easy. A character managing to stay popular and highly requested despite not being in the limelight is what is actually impressive. When a character that by most accounts would be sentenced to obscurity and been forgotten has kept a large and passionate fanbase and continues to be at the forefront of what people want, that character has stood the test of time and it should be looked at as a major point in the favor of that character getting in rather than an argument against them. Smash has plenty of recognizable and current characters on the box that will get kids to want the game already, let's keep adding characters that they will wonder about and discover from the game like many of us did with past revived characters.

 

[Xgears]

Zero:
"He would be too overpowered"

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Most wanted (not highest on my list as I don’t expect him as heavily): Sceptile
Most hated argument against him: “The only grass starter that can happen is Decidueye because relevance”, even though Sceptile is technically more recent (both were in the latest game, but only Sceptile can say he had a new tcg theme deck this year.)

 

[GolisoPower]

Doom Slayer:

“He’s too violent!” Bayonetta would like a word with you.
“America-made characters have no place in Smash!” Dark Samus would like a word with you.
“Doom is iconic. Doom SLAYER isn’t!” Villager would like a word with you.

 

[Mrs.Milky]

Zero:
"He would be too overpowered"

Ikr! And the "you don't want another marvel vs Capcom do you?" Well this is smash, not marvel vs Capcom

 

[Nintykid]

Zero:
"He would be too overpowered"

Okay that one doesn't even make sense

 

[Crap-Zapper]

THIS!

I've seen this argument on another forum, and like seriously? By that logic these characters like Wii Fit Trainer and R.O.B. shouldn't be fighters because they don't fight in they home games.

It holds no water and is a poor excuse as to why a character shouldn't be in Smash. If there's moveset potential, then it's totally possible.

I guess they just don't wish to beat up a dog!

...

I mean ... Waifu dog.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Dovahkiin:

"Ugh, just because a game is ported to Switch doesn't mean it's should get a character!"
...well, Skyrim is one of the few Western games to score a 40/40 on Famitsu, and it was used to show off the Switch's capabilities as more graphically powerful...considering that's been one of the main hits against Nintendo from fans of other companies. There's a reason they wanted to use Skyrim as the second game showed off on the console - it wasn't Mario Odyssey there. They wanted to show that the Switch wasn't just the 'babies and nostalgia goggles' console. It seems that Skyrim wasn't just a port, it was a port for a reason.

"Western third parties don't belong in Smash!"
...Why not? The US game market is ridiculously large, and has contributed to video game history as well. It's impossible to consider the entire history of games while discarding the rest of the planet. Honestly, this is as fanrule-y as saying that no thrid party should be in, and Brawl proved that one wrong.

"He's just an avatar swordsman without a set personality"
...as is Robin - the Dragonborn's got a set appearance they used in all of the marketing. Besides, the marketing has also shown him dual-wielding (which is not in Smash) or using a shield offensively (unlike Link's passive shielding), both of which are unique styles. Not to mention the potential for giving him a different weapon like a battleaxe, which is also unique. On top of that, the game is known for the dragon shouts, which allow him to have more than just swordplay for specials.

 

[Zerp]

I understand where you're coming from but that's not a good analogy at all. Skull kids as a species only appear in 3 zelda games. The one in Majora's Mask is the main antagonist, the one in Twilight Princess is a miniboss, and the ones in Ocarina of Time aren't enemies at all.

I think it still works, while Skull Kids are much more rare than Waddle Dees or Goombas they're still a "generic" species and the recurring character has the same name as the rest of them (Kind of like how Bandana Dee is sometimes referred to as Waddle Dee), Kirby 64 Waddle Dee (Or Waddle Doo deepending on how you count it, it's complicated) and Kirby Super Star Ultra Bandana Dee are minibosses (although BDee's might be the most pathetic one in any video game lol), and Bandana Dee is also a main character in multiple games. To make it clear I'm not saying "Skull Kid is unimportant" (I think he's a completely Smash-worthy character) or that the other Skull Kids are on par with random Goombas, what I'm saying Bandana Dee is important as well and being from a generic species like Yoshi and/or Pikachu shouldn't take that away from him.

 

[Mario123311]

Klonoa

"He's a dead franchise."
*clears throat* And while there hasn't been much info, It still very much is in development. Namco is a very NDA-heavy company too.

"He's too obscure/unpopular."
While this may have been true at some point, It certainly is not the case anymore. Since the series went into hibernation with the 2008 Remake, The series has only grown in recognition and popularity. While not to the same extent of something like Mario or Sonic, It is rather noticable. There was even a point early on where he was more popular than Pac-Man himself, sad to say. (And I was one of the hugest Pac supporters) Not well-reconized but just more liked in general sad to say because people have forgotten about the Pac-Man World trilogy and only seem to remember Pac for his arcade outings in the 80's.

 

[letsgetsmashing]

Captain Toad
Claim: He can't jump
Counterclaim: He can still be Captian Toad but just find without his backpack, or his backpack could be a projectile, and once thrown you could jump.

Excitebiker
Claim 1: Wario uses a bike and there doesn't need to be two characters who do (Yes, I've actually been told this several times).
Claim 2: They would be too hard to incorporate into the game because they're riding bikes.
Counterclaim 1: There's plenty of clones in the game, so I don't think Sakurai is too concerned with characters having "similarities" in their move sets.
Counterclaim 2: They wouldn't have to be on their bikes constantly and could use it as a move like Wario.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Captain Toad
Claim: He can't jump
Counterclaim: He can still be Captian Toad but just find without his backpack, or his backpack could be a projectile, and once thrown you could jump.

Excitebiker
Claim 1: Wario uses a bike and there doesn't need to be two characters who do (Yes, I've actually been told this several times).
Claim 2: They would be too hard to incorporate into the game because they're riding bikes.
Counterclaim 1: There's plenty of clones in the game, so I don't think Sakurai is too concerned with characters having "similarities" in their move sets.
Counterclaim 2: They wouldn't have to be on their bikes constantly and could use it as a move like Wario.

Would not that beat the purpose of the character?
It's not like you can compare Captain Falcon and Excitebike Racer.
Falcon, while originate's as a racer, he has a profile, in-depht character developement.
This guy is simply known as "Excitebike Racer".

Even the Ice Climbers are known as Popo and Nana.
It's not that I need Excitebike Racer to get a name like "Joe" or anything, but that the character itself seems like it only has 1 purpose, and if the key-element of that is taken out, then what makes him special then?

 

[letsgetsmashing]

Would not that beat the purpose of the character?
It's not like you can compare Captain Falcon and Excitebike Racer.
Falcon, while originate's as a racer, he has a profile, in-depht character developement.
This guy is simply known as "Excitebike Racer".

Even the Ice Climbers are known as Popo and Nana.
It's not that I need Excitebike Racer to get a name like "Joe" or anything, but that the character itself seems like it only has 1 purpose, and if the key-element of that is taken out, then what makes him special then?

Captain Falcon's high profile, in-depth character development came because of his inclusion in Smash. Before he was in Smash Falcon was never even seen outside of his vehicle. Also, Duck Hunt was literally named after his game, so I don't see a problem with Excitebiker being included. And I didn't say he had to use his bike as only one move, it was just a suggestion. Yes, making him always on his bike would be a bit complicated, but Ridley's inclusion was thought to be impossible and he's in the game, so I wouldn't say anything's too unlikely nowadays.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Captain Falcon's high profile, in-depth character development came because of his inclusion in Smash. Before he was in Smash Falcon was never even seen outside of his vehicle. Also, Duck Hunt was literally named after his game, so I don't see a problem with Excitebiker being included. And I didn't say he had to use his bike as only one move, it was just a suggestion. Yes, making him always on his bike would be a bit complicated, but Ridley's inclusion was thought to be impossible and he's in the game, so I wouldn't say anything's too unlikely nowadays.

True, but Duck Hunt does not only use moves from his own game. He is represented with the whole "Light Gun" accessory theme from the NES.
While it is true for Captain Falcon prior to Smash 64 and Melee. F-Zero was still an active series at that time, and granting both F-Zero GX which dvelved into a story, and the anime which came out very close to GX, Falcon did get this. Excitebike on the other hand has never truly developed even to this day.

Not trying to talk down on "ER", but I'm curious about the appeal.

 

[letsgetsmashing]

True, but Duck Hunt does not only use moves from his own game. He is represented with the whole "Light Gun" accessory theme from the NES.
While it is true for Captain Falcon prior to Smash 64 and Melee. F-Zero was still an active series at that time, and granting both F-Zero GX which dvelved into a story, and the anime which came out very close to GX, Falcon did get this. Excitebike on the other hand has never truly developed even to this day.

Not trying to talk down on "ER", but I'm curious about the appeal.

Yeah I see where you're coming from and you're right in a lot of aspects. I know a lot of people don't like how Sakurai tends to add a random retro character every game, but those are the people I like to see. I love seeing people like K. Rool and Ridley announced, don't get me wrong, I have wanted them since Brawl. But I almost start to believe they're gonna be included just by the sheer amount of people wanting them. I like the characters who aren't as requested and more of out of nowhere picks, like Excitebike and Skull Kid (well, until the rumors started swirling, now everyone wants him). I have a special place in my heart for Excitebiker too as Excitebike was the second game I ever played.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Yeah I see where you're coming from and you're right in a lot of aspects. I know a lot of people don't like how Sakurai tends to add a random retro character every game, but those are the people I like to see. I love seeing people like K. Rool and Ridley announced, don't get me wrong, I have wanted them since Brawl. But I almost start to believe they're gonna be included just by the sheer amount of people wanting them. I like the characters who aren't as requested and more of out of nowhere picks, like Excitebike and Skull Kid (well, until the rumors started swirling, now everyone wants him). I have a special place in my heart for Excitebiker too as Excitebike was the second game I ever played.

I'm all for Retro additions. Hell, to get on topic with one;

Balloon Fighter; "Villager's up-b is disconfirming Balloon Fighter's chances." Well ... It is refrenced, that's true, but it does not mean a character couldn't be fully created with a new air-balloon dynamic for gameplay value. Villager does not stop Balloon Fighter, or else the whole "echo" shenanigan would make no sense. Say Isabelle, could not be a Villager echo, because she would have to share moves from Villager, which ultimatley would disconfirm her, right? He is a true Retro icon. A game which Iwata worked on. Already got a stage, pluss music.

 

[User Name String]

Zero:
"He would be too overpowered"

Too be fair he is top tier in any game he appears in (Thats not X7)
In all seriousness he deals with one worse in my opinion.
He has a sword!

 

[Dee Dude]

Waluigi:
-“He’s a meme durr hurr”
So was Ridley and you’re blind and beyond ignorant if you honestly believe there isn't a vocal fanbase genuinely hoping for his spot.

-“He’s a spin-off character only created as Wario’s partner therefore not important.”

Why does that even matter? Smash itself is a spin-off series, Waluigi’s origin doesn’t mean jack because people still enjoy him for his colorful personality and massive potential, Daisy herself is practically a spin-off character and somehow gets higher privilege because she appeared in one Mario platformer title? What the h*ll even defines importance in Mario of all series?

-“His fans harassed Sakurai and therefore they should be punished by never including him.”

Yes, two idiots that harassed our poor fragile daddy Sakurai who simply blocked them means that Waluigi’s entire devoted and beloved community should never have a character they want in Smash, anyone who has that kind of mindset is despicable.

-“He’s unoriginal and has no moveset potential, he would be a clone of Luigi anyway!”

*facepalm*

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

"Isaac has no moveset potential."

I agree with this because I saw a picture of Isaac and he has a sword, therefore he would obviously just be another Marth clone.

What confuses me about this attitude is that he appeared in Brawl as an assist, so it should be clear he's different.

 

[KurouKamen]

People who think characters should be in for advertising or pure popularity and dissing on characters because they aren’t the “most wanted for Smash”

People who think characters like Starfy, Andy, Isaac, Mike Jones, Saki, Chibi Robo, Sukapon, Karate Joe, and Smartball are irrelevant first parties despite the fact we got Ice Climbers, ROB, Game and Watch, Pit, Little Mac, Wii Fit Trainer, and Duck Hunt way past their prime.

People who blindly call characters generic without ever playng their game, examples are Bomberman and Crash Bandicoot.

“Bomberman is just bombs”
He has elemental bombs, has power gears such as a jetpack and helicopter, can ride Louies and many different charaboms, and can use power ups to power himselfs up. We legitimately have Falcon in Smash who has done none of his moves in his original games, and Little Mac comes from a game where his only attack move is fighting. And thinking Link has bombs somehow makes Bomberman unoriginal is like saying Link having a sword means no more sword characters. Also laughing at people who think swords are somehow definitvely more unique than bombs.

“Crash just spins”
So does Sonic, your point? Pac Man’s source game is just eating dots and ghosts but if you went beyond that game you can see he has more, heck, Sakurai didn’t even include Pac World which had MORE moves for Pac Man. Crash can also ground pound, uses many vehicles, can dash slide, bash crates and jump off them, and has a fruit bazooka.

This is the worst one, people blindly assuming “X character not being in Smash is not popular therefore” and people equating wanting smash fanpolls to overall popularity.

You have to be blind to think Banjo Kazooie, Shovel Knight, and Shantae are overall more popular as franchises overall than Bomberman, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Tekken, Ace Attorney, Rayman, DOOM, Halo, and Ratchet and Clank. Legitimately, Cloud and Simon support wasn’t vocal at all compared to others and people think because they are in Smash it was due to fanpolls or some fan campaign; it wasn’t, it is because their franchises are important, and just because a franchise is an assist/not in smash does not make it automatically unimportant.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Captain Toad
Claim: He can't jump
Counterclaim: He can still be Captian Toad but just find without his backpack, or his backpack could be a projectile, and once thrown you could jump.

Excitebiker
Claim 1: Wario uses a bike and there doesn't need to be two characters who do (Yes, I've actually been told this several times).
Claim 2: They would be too hard to incorporate into the game because they're riding bikes.
Counterclaim 1: There's plenty of clones in the game, so I don't think Sakurai is too concerned with characters having "similarities" in their move sets.
Counterclaim 2: They wouldn't have to be on their bikes constantly and could use it as a move like Wario.

Personally the whole reason I'd like to see Excitebiker is BECAUSE I want to see a moveset that fully takes place on a bike. But maybe I'm an outlier

Also, screw the "Goomba with a hat' argument. Ya'll are just bein' mean. Don't bully the borb.

 

[BluePikmin11]

My most wanted character is a retro character (Prince Sable), and I hate how people seem to easily dismiss the possibility because "ultimate is focusing on the ballot" or that people are adding retros in their predictions "for the sake of it". Hardly anyone here these days thinks beyond that single train of thought to critically think about the other reasons retros are a tradition in Smash in the first place, like a retro's distinct moveset potential and characteristics that helps diversify Ultimate's set of newcomers.

 

[GravelerChamp60]

Lol

"K. Rool fans are the vocal minority"

"Bandana Dee is just a Goomba with a hat"

"Banjo is owned by Rare/Microsoft" -Naw like 8 characters in the franchise are owned by different companies.

" I don't get it why "certain" character is so requested" "Then proceeds to say how he or she has never played a game from that series.

 

[Dee Dude]

Here’s more since Waluigi’s took up a lot of space.

Krystal:
-“Star Fox doesn’t need four reps, it’s over-represented as it is!”
Ahh, I remember when this was such a common detraction towards her during the 4 days. Yes, it is odd that SF would’ve been on par with the big three on fighter numbers but that never mattered at all, what mattered is Krystal’s popularity as a character and her moveset potential and she surely wasn’t gonna held back by some dumb fan rule about “representation.” Heck, Mario, Pokemon, and even Fire Emblem are reaching about 8-9 characters, Star Fox having 4 would mean nothing anymore.

-“She’s furry-bait!”
Ok first off, real mature. Second off, that’s completely irrelevant to her actual chances of being playable. You have plenty of “waifus” in Smash already so what makes Krystal different? Being a vixen even though I’m sure no one would have the hots for a fox in real life? Grow up.

-“Even with her magic stick, she can easily be a 3rd clone/semi clone of Fox.”

Yeah, she can be obviously be one, is it guaranteed that she will be? Obviously not, with her current AT status in Ultimate it can almost be implied that Sakurai sees some potential in her staff based moveset and there’s plenty of support for her uniqueness of being the first few spear users in Smash next to Bandana Dee.

Samurai Goroh:
-“F-Zero is a dead series”
As much as I hate to admit it...I can somewhat agree however that doesn’t mean he can never happen, I know the franchise hasn’t gotten any love or attention in decades aside from the newest medley remix but if K.Rool aka a “dead” character despite being from a well alive series can get in with enough fan support then I can have hope for Goroh, the only things that’s truly holding him back imo is his lack of demand since Smash fans tend to put a lot of stock on F-Zero’s current state.

Bandana Dee:
-“Goomba with a hat and gun”
Haha, I actually find this one rather hilarious and don’t really take it seriously for obvious reasons.

Why have Yoshi, Pikachu, or any other Pokemon if generic species can’t be playable lol. Yoshi doesn’t even have something to distinguish him from other Yoshis!

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

King K. Rool, before his confirmation:

"He's irrelevant, he hasn't been in a game in ten years!"
"No one knows who he is! Even in the DKC games you never see him until the end!"
"The Mii costume is all you're going to get!"
"He'd just be a Bowser clone!"
"DK is just part of the Mario series, it doesn't need more reps!"
"I want characters from the 21st century in my Smash games!"
"Not gonna happen, he's owned by Rare!" (lol)
"K. Rool didn't do well on the Ballot, the silent majority voted for Bayo!"

I could go on.

Basically all of this but let's not forget the classic "He wouldn't fit into Smash with the rest of the characters because he's so ugly...and fat...and fat and ugly...and UGLY and FAT!!!!

But anyway Bandana Dee has been touched upon with the "Goomba with a hat", Paper Mario has also been touched upon with "He's just Mario and we don't need 3 Mario's! 4 if you count Luigi!" then we get to Dixie which IMO have seen less hate than other characters but it's more of "Dixie isn't a Nintendo All-Star and she HAS to be a Diddy echo if she gets in cause she's just girl Diddy"

 

[GravelerChamp60]

Basically all of this but let's not forget the classic "He wouldn't fit into Smash with the rest of the characters because he's so ugly...and fat...and fat and ugly...and UGLY and FAT!!!!

But anyway Bandana Dee has been touched upon with the "Goomba with a hat", Paper Mario has also been touched upon with "He's just Mario and we don't need 3 Mario's! 4 if you count Luigi!" then we get to Dixie which IMO have seen less hate than other characters but it's more of "Dixie isn't a Nintendo All-Star and she HAS to be a Diddy echo if she gets in cause she's just girl Diddy"

Referred by her haters as: Diddy with a wig.

 

[Zinith]

I understand a lot of the arguments against Boshi, but there's one that I have to point out:

"He's a one-off character who's merely in the background."

Boshi is a lot more recognizable than you might think. The Mario series introduced character later down the line that were distinct from the species they represent (Toadette, Goombella, Koops, Toadsworth, etc.), but that really wasn't the case before. Boshi was the first, and I think that deserves to be pointed out. Plus, his personality is tied to Yoshi's, so even though he hasn't appeared in over 20 years, he still gets development...

 

[AngrySun88]

Shantae is my most wanted character, and I hate the following arguments used against her:

"She's too sexy for Smash!"

Tell that to Bayonetta.

"She can't be in because Shovel Knight is an assist trophy and he's more popular!"

SK being an assist trophy only increases her chances since we know Sakurai is thinking about indies. Plus, Shantae's appeal is worldwide and she has a much longer history with Nintendo.

"An indie character will never be playable!"

People once said the same thing about third parties, and I point to Mega Man, Sonic, Snake, Cloud, and Simon.

 

[Cabbagehead]

-“She’s furry-bait!”
Ok first off, real mature. Second off, that’s completely irrelevant to her actual chances of being playable. You have plenty of “waifus” in Smash already so what makes Krystal different? Being a vixen even though I’m sure no one would have the hots for a fox in real life? Grow up.

This sounds an awful lot like the brain trust who insists that supporting Ashley makes you a pedophile, haha. The second you start insulting the fanbase, rather than make some sort of constructive argument, you lose.

 

[jamesster445]

I'm not even a big supporter of Captain Toad, but I've always found the whole "He can't jump" arguement stupid.
Sonic can't swim but he paddles along just fine in Pirate ship now doesn't he? You know who couldn't jump until this generation? Link.

 

[TheMarioaddict]

I mean, my most wanted newcomer is Marx, but no one really brings up unreasonable arguments against him (the common one is he wasn't relevant when the Ballot was happening, and... yeah, I agree). So instead, I'm gonna defend a character I kinda want, but everyone else seems to hate: Good ol' Minecraft Steve.

Honestly, I think a lot of the arguments against him are bull****, but the one that irks me the most is probably this one:

"He's too visually different, and his animations would look too jarring and out of place."

Like... seriously? Do you have no faith in Sakurai's team whatsoever? They made a god damn flat 2-D plane fit in, and you really think they couldn't do the same with a blocky cube guy? Like... really?

Hell, I can get more specific than that.

The blocky look? Personally, I don't think that's an issue at all - it's his distinct visual style, let him keep it.
The textures? just make them less pixellated, more flat-colors-y, like in the promo art. That's a Steve I could see standing next to Mario.
The animations? They don't have to be 1-for-1, you know. They could add in elbow and knee joints if they really wanted to, and exaggerate the motions he does a little bit. Granted I'm no animation expert, but they can take creative liberties.

Seriously... the way a character looks should be, like, the last thing anyone brings up when discussing whether a character is viable, assuming it even gets brought up at all.

 

[aarchak]

Literally all characters with swords are labeled as "no unique moveset potential" just because they have a sword (Isaac, Lloyd, Rex, etc.) just because of the Marth clones (which I agree is kind of stupid), but outside of those 4, literally no other sword character plays similarly and it makes me mad to see people say this. Say what you will about the characters on their own, but this argument is stupid.

 

[Xevious 1]

the unwritten "THEY ARE NOT NINTENDO ENOUGH" rule

I am of course referring specifically to Master Chief.

Sakurai looks for icon status in third parties more than anything.

Here is what Sakurai said when Pac Man was revealed

“It really is a miracle,” beams an ebullient Sakurai to the gathered room of journalists. “[We have] four of the most famous characters in the video game industry on the same screen battling each other. The only game that makes this possible is Super Smash Bros.”

“And, just between you and me,” he adds, leaning towards the crowd as if to whisper in the ear of each participant, “I’m aiming to make this the number one character game in the world.”

Here is Sakurai on Cloud

—

Final Fantasy VII (FFVII below) has never been released on a Nintendo console, so how did Cloud end up appearing in Smash?

Sakurai: Final Fantasy (FF below) is one of the few uniquely Japanese game series revered by players around the world. I think fans across the globe have hoped a character from one of those series would appear in Smash, so it was only a matter of time. At the same time, there are only so many big-name titles we can work with at this point—mainly because we’ve covered most of those bases. Aside from the major globally-recognized franchises already featured in Smash, there really aren’t that many left.

—That’s true. No other franchises come to mind.

Sakurai: Exactly. And within the FF franchise, Cloud is without question the most popular choice. A number of people fixate on the fact his original game was never released on a Nintendo console, but if we were to limit our choices to characters who appeared on a Nintendo console, we’d end up with Bartz from FFV or the Onion Knight from FFIII—how would that work? Maybe they could change jobs or something… Actually, that would be kind of interesting (laughs).

(Everyone laughs)

Sakurai: At the same time, I think it’s only natural to prioritize the character who enjoys worldwide popularity. I might have had misgivings if Cloud had never appeared on a Nintendo console in any form, though.

—Recently, he’s shown up in the Theatrhythm and Kingdom Hearts series. He’s even branching out to the PS4 now with the FFVII remake.


Sakurai: Which is why I think we should forget about console wars and focus on what’s really important: enjoying the games themselves.

The only thing from these quotes that hurts Chief is that Sakurai he might have misgivings about a character if they had not appeared on a Nintendo console in any form, but he didn't seem sure and Chief has a skin in minecraft on switch so that is at least appearing on Nintendo in some form. I understand that people don't want any third party in, I personally think they have to be so close to NIntendo that they are practically Nintendo (Bayonetta), be one of the most iconic characters in gaming (Cloud, Snake, Pac Man, Sonic), or both (Mega Man, Ryu, and Simon). Going by my criteria, Chief definitely fits the second point and that is what Sakurai is mainly looking for in a third party. He is the face of a genre, mascot of the Xbox, his games revolutionized console shooters, and has a big expanded universe . This game is about a celebration of Nintendo first and foremost, but also has some third party characters that celebrate gaming as a whole and can stand besides the likes of Mario, DK, Link, Samus, and Pikachu.

And the fact that we can have an opportunity to have

in one game is truly something special and will probably never happen again. And given Spencer's comments on Banjo and Sakurai wanting to have the biggest character game ever, it is a longshot, but Samus vs the Master Chief could very well become reality. Also having the mascot of a rival console in Smash would be HUGE.

Sure if you think third parties should be close to Nintendo then fine, that is your opinion. But don't act like it is some unwritten rule when it clearly isn't.

The only other character criticism that annoys me is the "they don't fit". The diverse cast representing all types of genres and very different worlds is part of what makes Smash so great

 

[GoodGrief741]

Swordfighter.

Who I’m talking about doesn’t even matter, it’s a moronic argument for any character.