What do you guys think is the next thing that will push falcon closer to the ultimate dominance of the world that he deserves? I've been trying to spend a lot of time on my shield drop game, like being able to shield drop out of shield pressure into as many mixups as I can, like any landing aerial, a perfect waveland, or jumping back up into waveland grab, or jumping up to ledgecancel an aerial for even more mixups. But what would you guys guess would help falcon more than that?
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What is next for Falcon?
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KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
More back air. Like actually.
Citizen Snips
Smash Journeyman
It's so GOOOOOD. Moonwalk -> Bair = new metagame
kyaputenfarukon07
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 267
Ledgecanceling everything
ShrieK1295
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2009
- Messages
- 371
I think more bair will help against floaties but is definitely not what we need against spacies.
I've been working on turn around gentleman and on ledge cancelling the up b. If everyone could recover as well as SS that would be significant. Also, I'm working on ledge cancelling the up b when you are recovering low and doing it away from the stage. I think better use of pivots is something to strive for, as they can really punish approaching spacies if you read the situation correctly.
I've been working on turn around gentleman and on ledge cancelling the up b. If everyone could recover as well as SS that would be significant. Also, I'm working on ledge cancelling the up b when you are recovering low and doing it away from the stage. I think better use of pivots is something to strive for, as they can really punish approaching spacies if you read the situation correctly.
Gahtzu
Smash Journeyman
shield dropping + ledge canceling + good recovery mixups and you will be the best.
General Heinz
Smash Journeyman
that
And also this
Watching it I think it's a great way to approach the matchup. I think edgecancels are pretty damn useful. They just seem to add a layer of flexibility of movement that falcon needs to have to maneuver slickly enough I guess. In general falcon's mobility is the number one best thing he has since he has no shine, and he has a gun but he's too manly to use it.
also i think bair for real too. dropping low for a bair on edgeguards is sometimes the best way to nip it in the bud i think.
otherwise, i don't know how many of you others prefer this method, but basically any character with a mario-like upb i will always use utilt if given the chance and they're trying to sweetspot, say. it puts you at the lowest risk but is basically a kill if you time it. yet i feel like i don't see that as necessarily the most common edgeguard, especially against marth.
stomp works too obviously and its devastating to hit but harder to time imo
Ryobeat
Smash Ace
Platform canceling Falcon Punches.....i dont know how, but thats what should be next.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
You guys are overcomplicating this.
Bair.
Bair.
rjgbadger
Banned via Warnings
It's so GOOOOOD. Moonwalk -> Bair = new metagame
cannedbread
Smash Lord
mid-air raptor boost techchases
at night
iRobinhoood
Smash Lord
Surprised powershielding Falco lasers hasn't come up.
Walt
Smash Ace
People already PS falco lasers, that's not new. I've been trying to do powershield falco aerials>gentlemen. That is pretty hot because no one sees it coming, at least not yet.
Bair is also is fukmazing move. I've been spamming the hell out of it recently.
Bair is also is fukmazing move. I've been spamming the hell out of it recently.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
KK knows what's up. Bair turns Falcon from a dash dancing crippled Shiek looking for grabs into a character that can actually throw something out at neutral safely.
ruhtraeel
Smash Ace
IMO, b-airs (possibly reverse) and f-tilts in combos.
I wonder if b-air to turn around f-tilt angled up would work
I wonder if b-air to turn around f-tilt angled up would work
Yah I definitely need to start using bair more. I'm also working on shield drops and ledgecancels so that I can have a ton of ledge mixups. I've also noticed that the first hit of nair is ****ing amazing. It stuffs a ton of things, and opens up a ton of follow ups.
kyaputenfarukon07
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2011
- Messages
- 267
Inty17
Smash Journeyman
edge cancelled air raptor boost into knee :D
General Heinz
Smash Journeyman
yeah first hit nair is sick. just started trying to implement that myself.Yah I definitely need to start using bair more. I'm also working on shield drops and ledgecancels so that I can have a ton of ledge mixups. I've also noticed that the first hit of nair is ****ing amazing. It stuffs a ton of things, and opens up a ton of follow ups.
and maybe falcon mains have a natural aversion to bair because of jiggs flashbacks.
they keep a man up at night.
Wearing Falcon Helmets in tournament is the next step for Falcon Dominance
D
Deleted member
Guest
every single one of falcons moves are useful in some manner for offense, except weak hit-box dash attack and air side-b
dash attack is pretty good out of a run as long as they are above mid percentage because in spots where its too slow to grab/ aerial you can simply dash attack, but its p00p if you hit with weak hit-box, they are too low of a percentage (they crouch cancel)
up-tilt as a non-edgeguarding, offensive move is the new mango falcon move, i don't really use it but the automatic spacing/ relative strength of the move is pretty useful
dash attack is pretty good out of a run as long as they are above mid percentage because in spots where its too slow to grab/ aerial you can simply dash attack, but its p00p if you hit with weak hit-box, they are too low of a percentage (they crouch cancel)
up-tilt as a non-edgeguarding, offensive move is the new mango falcon move, i don't really use it but the automatic spacing/ relative strength of the move is pretty useful
oscarmalherbe
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 57
usage of ground moves and something else I don't wanna say because I don't want other people to get better faster is to chain your hits so that the opponent has a hard time teching (because falcon is so good when the opponent is on the ground) ie- down air from like raptor boost at low ( to continue combo until possible death percentage from knee), f-tilt from up throw ( cuz nobody techs that ever), just moves in general that are timed slightly differently than expected in order to prevent techs and then you can jab reset or follow up with aerial.
oscarmalherbe
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Messages
- 57
because if you down air somebody instead of knee at like 50% from a guaranteed aerial..mannn 90% of the time they will always DI inwards and you can THEN knee or wtvr.
I dislike this reasoning, but i get the point
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
U-tilt has really good base knockback so it's probably got some nice stuff at low & medium percents.
Van.
Smash Ace
FU tilt is pretty good to surprsingly stuff approaches
ShrieK1295
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2009
- Messages
- 371
I was ****ed up the other day and I realized getting behind Peach and spamming pivot aerials ****in *****.
D
Deleted member
Guest
vs marth is also 5x easier if u just get behind him
ShrieK1295
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2009
- Messages
- 371
^I've heard this a lot, but I don't think I've been able to make a lot happen against Marth. What are you looking to do when you get behind him? I'd probably just try to DD about a foxtrot away and bait something.
D
Deleted member
Guest
almost anything is good because marths are poor offensively when you are behind them
marth's b-air is awkward/risky/slow/weak(non-tipper), d-air out of shield is risky, potentially too slow, counter out of shield is risky
relatively laggy roll
OK spotdodge
weird gimmicks aside, only real 'safe' option for marth is to wavedash out of shield
==
grab is probably the best since marth gets owned out of grabs
aerials are also good, especially good if the marth you face hates being in place and has a tendency to get out of shielding
in fact marth seems so limited/weak when you are behind them that a plain knee on shield --> grab has a better chance of working, very good if you already show ur hand to be pressure-heavy.
i.e. --> you knee shield --> gentlemen everytime, you do it so much people expect gentlemen. so after a knee--> GRABBB
side-b, while not completely safe is also good IMO for same reason
==
when ur not behind marth it's much harder to get in, when i do try i either try my best to side-b not like a noob/ hope they n-air, approach with KNEE (worst case is usually a swat away), or dash dance
bob money trained the **** out of me in this matchup, although i still lack experience vs good marths (most marths literally give up vs falcons that they think are gunna **** them up or they themselves suck at the matchup) BUT now I think its objectively an easier matchup than shiek/falco/fox.
Falcon has an advantage on bigger stages, Marth has an advantage on smaller ones, but theres still a lot of room to outplay on both sides. Falcon vs Marth to me is similar to Fox/Falco in that its one of the defining matchups of melee.
marth's b-air is awkward/risky/slow/weak(non-tipper), d-air out of shield is risky, potentially too slow, counter out of shield is risky
relatively laggy roll
OK spotdodge
weird gimmicks aside, only real 'safe' option for marth is to wavedash out of shield
==
grab is probably the best since marth gets owned out of grabs
aerials are also good, especially good if the marth you face hates being in place and has a tendency to get out of shielding
in fact marth seems so limited/weak when you are behind them that a plain knee on shield --> grab has a better chance of working, very good if you already show ur hand to be pressure-heavy.
i.e. --> you knee shield --> gentlemen everytime, you do it so much people expect gentlemen. so after a knee--> GRABBB
side-b, while not completely safe is also good IMO for same reason
==
when ur not behind marth it's much harder to get in, when i do try i either try my best to side-b not like a noob/ hope they n-air, approach with KNEE (worst case is usually a swat away), or dash dance
bob money trained the **** out of me in this matchup, although i still lack experience vs good marths (most marths literally give up vs falcons that they think are gunna **** them up or they themselves suck at the matchup) BUT now I think its objectively an easier matchup than shiek/falco/fox.
Falcon has an advantage on bigger stages, Marth has an advantage on smaller ones, but theres still a lot of room to outplay on both sides. Falcon vs Marth to me is similar to Fox/Falco in that its one of the defining matchups of melee.
S l o X
Smash Champion
being behind his shield makes it feel impossible to get punished.
knee > grab is legit. falcon has a lot of potential that the top falcons havent touched on enough but are beginning to. im trying to put in as much work as possible to get to s2j hax level so i can actually be of use to you guys.
knee > grab is legit. falcon has a lot of potential that the top falcons havent touched on enough but are beginning to. im trying to put in as much work as possible to get to s2j hax level so i can actually be of use to you guys.
D
Deleted member
Guest
well i kinda put it all in the other post but to put it more succinctly:
bob $ advice:
getting behind marth GOOD.
knee approach a lot whether to hit them or get behind them. Often you will not get punished hard for it (usually worst case is a SWAT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKTULeOTqn8 watch around 1:11
this isai vs ken clip showcases both concepts as well as showing ken backairing like a n00b with marth
1:22 same vid
3:16 isai calling ken a ***** knee
*I also said to side-b even when u are not behind them but ONLY do this if the marth likes to n-air a lot
=
Isai 8 years ago already knew his **** vs marth. Times have changed, for example, almost no marth will n00b it up as hard as ken did in this match but standard fundamental vs marth game is right there in his games.
most modern day marth vs falcon games is one of the two players not knowing **** for the matchup. Both players failing, or Hax taking a big **** on some marth. If u need more falcon vs marth vids i'd just look up haxs vids, although his style is really unique/hard to copy, or watch more Isai vids vs Marth.
=
personally i'd have to just play vs good marths more, none of which are in socal. When I play vs bob$ or pewpewU more i'll give some more thoughts on the matchup
==
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENeHzbYir6E&feature=relmfu, also a pretty sick match from the same set
bob $ advice:
getting behind marth GOOD.
knee approach a lot whether to hit them or get behind them. Often you will not get punished hard for it (usually worst case is a SWAT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKTULeOTqn8 watch around 1:11
this isai vs ken clip showcases both concepts as well as showing ken backairing like a n00b with marth
1:22 same vid
3:16 isai calling ken a ***** knee
*I also said to side-b even when u are not behind them but ONLY do this if the marth likes to n-air a lot
=
Isai 8 years ago already knew his **** vs marth. Times have changed, for example, almost no marth will n00b it up as hard as ken did in this match but standard fundamental vs marth game is right there in his games.
most modern day marth vs falcon games is one of the two players not knowing **** for the matchup. Both players failing, or Hax taking a big **** on some marth. If u need more falcon vs marth vids i'd just look up haxs vids, although his style is really unique/hard to copy, or watch more Isai vids vs Marth.
=
personally i'd have to just play vs good marths more, none of which are in socal. When I play vs bob$ or pewpewU more i'll give some more thoughts on the matchup
==
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENeHzbYir6E&feature=relmfu, also a pretty sick match from the same set
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
damn, so hype
i'm not the only one to watch old school...i was starting to think people had forgotten ken and isai
i'm not the only one to watch old school...i was starting to think people had forgotten ken and isai
