• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

What if Smash 4 turned out to be a great competitive game?

Status
Not open for further replies.

pickle962

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
1,337
Location
Louisiana
Warning Received
Don't feed the troll anymore guys! Let him rot in a despond of his own self made hatred towards an unreleased atm game! :p

Anywhom, In just barely a month, the Japanese will have Smash 4 on the 3DS. Should we wait till the 3ds version is out everywhere before we start picking apart the game looking for competitive value or wait till the Wii U version is out everywhere?
 

victinivcreate1

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
1,628
Location
New York City
NNID
Wiiu4ssb4
3DS FC
3007-8585-6950
Don't feed the troll anymore guys! Let him rot in a despond of his own self made hatred towards an unreleased atm game! :p

Anywhom, In just barely a month, the Japanese will have Smash 4 on the 3DS. Should we wait till the 3ds version is out everywhere before we start picking apart the game looking for competitive value or wait till the Wii U version is out everywhere?
And there he goes with the T word. Just because my opinion differs drastically with yours, I am a troll.
 
Last edited:

Senario

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
699
The pessimist inside is a defensive mechanism.

We all want smash 4 to be successful, but by riding it down, we lessen the blow if it ends up not being good.

But if it IS successful, trust me that most of these people are going to be more estatic than a bunch of school girls getting asked out to prom.
Exactly, it is better not to get overly hyped and disappointed like with Brawl. But if Smash 4 is good it is good, no need for any "I told you so's" or hating on people who were skeptical. They have a right to be thanks to how Sakurai develops his games.
 
D

Deleted member 245254

Guest
The pessimist inside is a defensive mechanism.

We all want smash 4 to be successful, but by riding it down, we lessen the blow if it ends up not being good.

But if it IS successful, trust me that most of these people are going to be more estatic than a bunch of school girls getting asked out to prom.
Except excessive whinging actually does nothing to help the situation it just makes the pre-release process all the more miserable for the rest of us simply because they can't manage their emotions riding over the success or failure of a game. Pretty selfish if you ask me.
 

Morbi

Scavenger
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,168
Location
Speculation God, GOML
The pessimist inside is a defensive mechanism.

We all want smash 4 to be successful, but by riding it down, we lessen the blow if it ends up not being good.

But if it IS successful, trust me that most of these people are going to be more estatic than a bunch of school girls getting asked out to prom.
Ironically, I do not want Smash 4 to be a success. I am not even pessimistic either, for the most part I am an optimist. I suppose I just do not want to see Smash 4 in a competitive environment just to see the community react and split once more.
 

ferioku

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
766
Location
United Kingdom
Lets not make it worse lol.
No no no, this will be a lot worse than brawl indeed, no need for improvements.

The point I'm trying to bring is, this build is so early, that no one can tell how good it will play, I'm not being negative because that will just generate false hope between me and other people reading my post. I've seen people switch from being hyped to not wanting to buy this game simply because of posts stating that this is brawl 2.0, when it clearly isn't! I've also noticed a lot of people get references from top players, but you don't see them saying the game sucks do you?
 

victinivcreate1

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
1,628
Location
New York City
NNID
Wiiu4ssb4
3DS FC
3007-8585-6950
But if Smash 4 is good it is good, no need for any "I told you so's"
IF it turns out to be awesome competitively, I want an apology from every noob who said that this game is a failure and is Brawl 2.0!
I'm sorry I had to.

@ ferioku ferioku

All of the Melee pros said it was a bit too slow. It needed some physics adustments and it'd be fine. Even the commentators didn't want to respond on it, so they came up with the rehashed "its a demo" saying.
 
Last edited:

pickle962

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
1,337
Location
Louisiana
Exactly, it is better not to get overly hyped and disappointed like with Brawl. But if Smash 4 is good it is good, no need for any "I told you so's" or hating on people who were skeptical. They have a right to be thanks to how Sakurai develops his games.
Should Smash 4 make it big at the competitive level in a GOOD way, I will personally rub it in your face :p
 

ferioku

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
766
Location
United Kingdom
I'm sorry I had to.
You don't even have to be sorry, It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Although it's funny because if it fails competitively you will all do the same thing either way, it's in your negative nature anyway!

@ victinivcreate1 victinivcreate1 You wanna bet that they said it's slow, watch some of the interviews again stating that a few more ground options and faster landing lag will make this game perfect.
 
Last edited:

Senario

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Messages
699
You don't even have to be sorry, It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Although it's funny because if it fails competitively you will all do the same thing either way, it's in your negative nature anyway!
lol no, if it fails competitively we will leave these boards and go play something else until Balance patches solve the problem. If not then there is no point in sticking around.

Unlike some people, we don't really care about "rubbing it in people's faces" if it isn't competitive, we'll just go play our own thing as per usual. One more year!
 

The Slayer

RAWR!
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
1,239
Location
New World
NNID
Ren
3DS FC
1778-9825-9960
You don't even have to be sorry, It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Although it's funny because if it fails competitively you will all do the same thing either way, it's in your negative nature anyway!
Yeah, I don't think that will happen the other way around, especially not calling out "noobs" and asking for their apologizes from them. I don't really see the point of it aside from e-peen, which is even more discouraging than these critical comments about the game.
 

ferioku

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
766
Location
United Kingdom
lol no, if it fails competitively we will leave these boards and go play something else until Balance patches solve the problem. If not then there is no point in sticking around.

Unlike some people, we don't really care about "rubbing it in people's faces" if it isn't competitive, we'll just go play our own thing as per usual. One more year!
Ok, we will see in the september!

@ The Slayer The Slayer I only call them noobs because they think they have full knowledge of the game when they haven't played it properly, I'm a Sm4ash noob as well.
 
Last edited:

Saito

Pranked!
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
3,930
Location
Anywhere but Spain
NNID
Vairrick
3DS FC
1719-3875-9482
Ironically, I do not want Smash 4 to be a success. I am not even pessimistic either, for the most part I am an optimist. I suppose I just do not want to see Smash 4 in a competitive environment just to see the community react and split once more.
Wait, I read that wrong.

You're a good person.
 
Last edited:

Morbi

Scavenger
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,168
Location
Speculation God, GOML
Let's admit it, you would do it anyway, even if the game wasn't great competitively.

@ LancerStaff LancerStaff He's being a troll...
Again with this non-sense, why do I have to be a troll if I have a different opinion. It is extremely presumptuous. I do not want the game to be a great competitive game. Simple as that, I do not need to be a troll to feel that way.

That's awful selfish of you...
Quite.
 

Saito

Pranked!
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
3,930
Location
Anywhere but Spain
NNID
Vairrick
3DS FC
1719-3875-9482
Competitively successful or not, I'm going to have more people to play with than ever.

That alone will end up pulling it ahead of the other games for me personally. No tournament scene, along with no car to get to other ones is pure suffering.
 

Saikyoshi

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
3,921
Location
Being petty
NNID
KarmaPilcrow
3DS FC
0344-9771-0514
Again with this non-sense, why do I have to be a troll if I have a different opinion. It is extremely presumptuous. I do not want the game to be a great competitive game. Simple as that, I do not need to be a troll to feel that way.


Quite.
Our problem is, we tend to interpret that as being that you don't want Smash 4 to be a good game at all. Which has somewhat of a cause-effect precedent in why we do that; I can't really enjoy Brawl casually anymore after looking into how bad it is competitively, for example, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 
Last edited:

The Slayer

RAWR!
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
Messages
1,239
Location
New World
NNID
Ren
3DS FC
1778-9825-9960
@ The Slayer The Slayer I only call them noobs because they think they have full knowledge of the game when they haven't played it properly, I'm a Sm4ash noob as well.
I don't think they're denying that, but what they are given with from the demo and such, there's nothing wrong with some criticism in mind. Especially if it's something familiar from previous iterations. Yes, the E3 build is outdated. However, 9 out of 10, it's probably not changed by a lot from the demo and it's pretty much in the polishing stage when you really look at it. The worst one can do is hype themselves to oblivion and get their soul crushed when the game doesn't come out the way they wanted.

Not like that will matter for some people, but punching on salty people doesn't sound like a reasonable answer to it.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 245254

Guest
Does anyone go to the reddit? The last few weeks have been laden with anti-project m discussion, mostly in regard to how it is not enough like Melee. To the point where you can see responses like this :

I'm all about respecting opinions, but honestly, if you're the type of guy to judge an unfinished product to be Brawl 2.0 and compare it to your **** being dragged through broken glass, then I don't want you to be in the smash community.
Just to let you know, this comment is in reference to Project M, in a thread centered around Hbox's filmed opinion on Project M, not Smash 4.

The similarity is uncannily similar to the typical thing you'd expect from Smash Bros. Bash-fest 4, don't you think?

Meleetists want a game they are never going to get. Hell they don't even know what they want. A team of people with the specific intention of making a game like Melee can't even satisfy them.

The only way to satiate these players is to PLAY MELEE. Leave the rest of us who actually want the scene to evolve to our Brawl's and Project Ms and Smash 4s, but take your mindless, self-entitled, insatiable rubbish far, far away please. You are the reason the community ever splintered to begin with and continue to be a thorn in our side.

Melee players who support change and invite new things and are forward thinking enough to realize that change can be positive, thank you. This is not directed at you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Morbi

Scavenger
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,168
Location
Speculation God, GOML
Does anyone go to the reddit? The last few weeks have been laden with anti-project m discussion, mostly in regard to how it is not enough like Melee. To the point where you can see responses like this :



Just to let you know, this comment is in reference to Hbox's filmed opinion on Project M, not Smash 4.

The similarity is uncannily similar to the typical thing you'd expect from Smash Bros. Bash-fest 4, don't you think?

Meleetists want a game they are never going to get. Hell they don't even know what they want. A team of people with the specific intention of making a game like Melee can't even satisfy them.

The only way to satiate these players is to PLAY MELEE. Leave the rest of us who actually want the scene to evolve to our Brawl's and Project Ms and Smash 4s, but take your mindless, self-entitled, insatiable rubbish far, far away please. You are the reason the community ever splintered and continue to be a thorn in our side.

Melee players who support change and invite new things and are forward thinking enough to realize that change can be positive, thank you. This is not directed at you.
*Disclaimer*
Not a troll post.

Interesting, this is humorously one of the predominant reasons that I do not want Smash 4 to be competitive. I want to be able to take my mindless, self-entitled, insatiable rubbish far, far way, back to Melee. Albeit, I feel obligated to correct you, as a "Meleetist," I am well aware of what I want. I want Melee (which is why a team dedicated to the intent of developing a game "like" Melee is not enough). However, if Smash 4 is successful, it would only be logical for most people to transition and "support change."

If the game is competitively successful though, I suppose I can only be forwarding thinking enough to comprehend that the change was positive and move forward. I do not look forward to moving forward as I am not entirely receptive to change (which is my prerogative, mind you).
 

victinivcreate1

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
1,628
Location
New York City
NNID
Wiiu4ssb4
3DS FC
3007-8585-6950
People, you also also gotta realize, in Brawl, MK was the only character with more than one or 2 combos. he had glide attack into any aerial, up air spam, dtilt into ftilt, down throw into buffered ftilt if foe DI'd upwards, weak hit of ASL into ledge cancelled strong hit ASL, and weak hits of back air into ftilt/dtilt/SL/nair. All of these exist because Meta Jank has zilch lag on his moves.

This game is gonna be more balanced. It is likely that no single character will dominate the others(I mean look at all the MKs, Tyrant, Otori, Kakera, RAIN, Mew2King, ZeRo, Nairo, Maguro, etc), just one character who wins slightly more often than the others, but not all the time (meaning that one character will not have an abundance of players). But that means that moves will be laggier and more reasonable for balance purposes. This means that many characters will be very restricted in terms of combo potential, and the combo game will basically result in a two hits completely guaranteed, and a bunch of hits landed via hard DI/tech chase/edgeguard reads for the rest of the stock. The game still does not test both physical and mentl capabilities. Just mainly mental.

Nothing is wrong with defense in a NORMAL fighting game. But defense is a TERRIBLE thing to play by in SMash. Why? Because in normal fighters, you can actually poke through guards, and you're restrricted in movement. In Smash, you have full freedom of multiple jumps, fast and slow dashes, powerful projectiles, fast and slow air speeds, strong and weak air control (how efficiently you can change direction in the air, for example Wario and Jiggs are beast at this, Ganondorf is not), etc. In a game like Smash, it is completely (and it HAPPENS) possible to get a stock lead and run away for the duration of the match, and WIN by stock/percent lead. This doesn't happen in fighting games, because most fighters are highly restrictive in movement.

Secondly, even defensive fighters like USF4 and SF have combos, and when they do happen, they're big. They're not 2 hitters. They're 4-5-6-7 hitters. Offense is a thing in SF, its just that to get to that point, you have to poke your way in.

People also forget that Melee is very campy itself until someone makes contact. Back in the day Ken would DD camp until the opponent committed to a crap option, then he'd work his magic. Mango has DD camped Armada into doing a dash attack, which Mango then punished with the staple up throw up air as Fox. Isn't the number one problem for most Falcos aiming to become good bad laser spacing? Or same with Marth, not camping with good fluid movement thats tricky and confuses opponent and causes them to commit to a crap option?
 
D

Deleted member 245254

Guest
*Disclaimer*
Not a troll post.

Interesting, this is humorously one of the predominant reasons that I do not want Smash 4 to be competitive. I want to be able to take my mindless, self-entitled, insatiable rubbish far, far way, back to Melee. Albeit, I feel obligated to correct you, as a "Meleetist," I am well aware of what I want. I want Melee (which is why a team dedicated to the intent of developing a game "like" Melee is not enough). However, if Smash 4 is successful, it would only be logical for most people to transition and "support change."

If the game is competitively successful though, I suppose I can only be forwarding thinking enough to comprehend that the change was positive and move forward. I do not look forward to moving forward as I am not entirely receptive to change (which is my prerogative, mind you).
Well you tend to be more elegant than most in your rejection of change so I can at least really respect that, despite the harshness of my words that came before. If most of the Melee enthusiasts approached the subject with your methodology and tact I'd begin to think it's more plausible for the community to continue co-existing as such.
 

ferioku

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
766
Location
United Kingdom
I don't think they're denying that, but what they are given with from the demo and such, there's nothing wrong with some criticism in mind. Especially if it's something familiar from previous iterations. Yes, the E3 build is outdated. However, 9 out of 10, it's probably not changed by a lot from the demo and it's pretty much in the polishing stage when you really look at it. The worst one can do is hype themselves to oblivion and get their soul crushed when the game doesn't come out the way they wanted.

Not like that will matter for some people, but punching on salty people doesn't sound like a reasonable answer to it.
I'm not, I'm telling them that it's still too early to judge, because they are insulting a game that I want to enjoy!
 
Last edited:

Saikyoshi

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
3,921
Location
Being petty
NNID
KarmaPilcrow
3DS FC
0344-9771-0514
There's different levels of defensive framework, which I'm trying to detail in this TVTropes YKTTW. Brawl defensive is different from USFIV defensive. (And both are different from Punch Time Explosion defensive.)
 
Last edited:

Tristan_win

Not dead.
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Messages
3,845
Location
Currently Japan
...Brawl Sheik had way more combo's then meta knight.
Ftilt into jab,ftilt,utilt, dash attack, grab, nair, fair, bair, uair, usmash
Fair into dtilt into ftilt
Fair into dashattack
Dtilt into Dtilt into Ftilt
Utilt into Ftilt (kinda true, it depends on the character a lot.)
 
Last edited:

Morbi

Scavenger
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
17,168
Location
Speculation God, GOML
Well you tend to be more elegant than most in your rejection of change so I can at least really respect that, despite the harshness of my words that came before. If most of the Melee enthusiasts approached the subject with your methodology and tact I'd begin to think it's more plausible for the community to continue co-existing as such.
I do agree, most people are far too adverse to change or instead of stating their opinions, they "attack" those who do not share the same perspective. However, I can see where you are coming across. Melee is the only game that I am interested in competitively, I am interested in all Smash though, including Brawl. I just enjoy the other Smash games in a casual context. No doubt, in the event of the Smash 4's competitive success, I will move on. But I am not moving on a second sooner. :troll:
 

31gma

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
37
NNID
yrba10
Then it will have a place in EVO and other fighting game tournaments in the long run. Melee purists may still bash the game but that's easy to ignore. We'll see an entirely different metagame, hopefully isn't neither Melee nor Brawl nor even 64.

One thing I would love to see in the meta once it fully evolves is the emphasis on mechanics that don't solely rely on physics exploit and precise button and analog control but rather strategic positioning and properly timed attacks (or reliance on thinking fast rather than pressing buttons fast)
 

victinivcreate1

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
1,628
Location
New York City
NNID
Wiiu4ssb4
3DS FC
3007-8585-6950
...Brawl Sheik had way more combo's then meta knight.
Ftilt into jab,ftilt,utilt, dash attack, grab, nair, fair, bair, uair, usmash
Fair into dtilt into ftilt
Fair into dashattack
Dtilt into Dtilt into Ftilt
Utilt into Ftilt (kinda true, it depends on the character a lot.)
None of these are true. They're strings. Not actual combos
 
D

Deleted member 245254

Guest
Then it will have a place in EVO and other fighting game tournaments in the long run. Melee purists may still bash the game but that's easy to ignore. We'll see an entirely different metagame, hopefully isn't neither Melee nor Brawl nor even 64.

One thing I would love to see in the meta once it fully evolves is the emphasis on mechanics that don't solely rely on physics exploit and precise button and analog control but rather strategic positioning and properly timed attacks (or reliance on thinking fast rather than pressing buttons fast)
God, 10000000x this.

None of these are true. They're strings. Not actual combos
What's the difference in this case?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

victinivcreate1

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
1,628
Location
New York City
NNID
Wiiu4ssb4
3DS FC
3007-8585-6950
Then it will have a place in EVO and other fighting game tournaments in the long run. Melee purists may still bash the game but that's easy to ignore. We'll see an entirely different metagame, hopefully isn't neither Melee nor Brawl nor even 64.

One thing I would love to see in the meta once it fully evolves is the emphasis on mechanics that don't solely rely on physics exploit and precise button and analog control but rather strategic positioning and properly timed attacks (or reliance on thinking fast rather than pressing buttons fast)
Lol you realize once Melee players start pushng fast, they're already thinking about how the foe will DI, whats the best follow up to cover all options, how to maintain positional advantage, and if it resets to neutral, whats the best way to force the opponent into defensive stance?I mean damn, Mango's entire style is reading. Brawl is not the only game that makes players think.

Also, its a fighting game. Precise inputs are a thing. Do it or suck forever. Even In Brawl you had buffering inputs from the lag of other moves/defensive mechanics cooldown lag (it was a 10 frame window, very precise indeed). MK could dthrow into buffered ftilt at low percents (0-15) and it would true combo if the opponent DI'd upward.

@Zipzo
Combos are guaranteed. Strings are escapable. When the opponent was not able to perform the correct option escape in time, most people confuse it for a combo.
 
Last edited:

victinivcreate1

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
1,628
Location
New York City
NNID
Wiiu4ssb4
3DS FC
3007-8585-6950
Its
Its in the thread. You tested on a CPU. You went wrong there, no good human DI and SDI (because you can SDI the up smash, its just that no one practices SDI so stale ftilt to up smash seems free). Also, every character has combos from moves that have been used 5-6 times earlier lol. Marth's dtilt into dtilt true combos if its stale. Lucario's fair into nair true combos once fair is stale enough.
 

Aninymouse

3DS Surfer
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
2,570
Location
Akron, OH
3DS FC
3540-0120-0225
@ ferioku ferioku
It is nearly a 2.0. So far in terms of mechanics, there are VERY FEW new ones. Many of Brawl's old techs and physics carried over to this game. B REVERSALS. DACUS. NO MOMENTUM FROM DASH INTO JUMP. THE FRAME PERFECT MR.R DASH DANCING. I believe Brawl's style of crouch canceling, where stun is cancelled but not KB
I thought DACUS wasn't returning? At least, that was the initial report I saw. It'd be a shame, since DACUS was such an integral part of some characters in Brawl. Am I mistaken? Did the timing just change to where it's harder to do? Did the input change slightly?
 

victinivcreate1

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Messages
1,628
Location
New York City
NNID
Wiiu4ssb4
3DS FC
3007-8585-6950
I thought DACUS wasn't returning? At least, that was the initial report I saw. It'd be a shame, since DACUS was such an integral part of some characters in Brawl. Am I mistaken? Did the timing just change to where it's harder to do? Did the input change slightly?
I can actually confirm it. Mega man has it! A few others on the Mega Man boards can confirm it too. His was about as long as Falco's in Brawl, maybe a bit shorter. Input is the same, I'm just not used to that Wii U Pro Controller. Another thing that shows that this game is 2.0. DACUS in PM ia super short because Melee has significantly higher ground friction compared to Brawl which is like walking on ice. Let alone the fact that Mega Man's DACUS was nearly as long as Brawl Falco's. IDK if Fox still has his short DACUS from Brawl.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
NNID
RedRyu_Smash
3DS FC
0344-9312-3352
@ ferioku ferioku
It is nearly a 2.0. So far in terms of mechanics, there are VERY FEW new ones. Many of Brawl's old techs and physics carried over to this game. B REVERSALS. DACUS. NO MOMENTUM FROM DASH INTO JUMP. THE FRAME PERFECT MR.R DASH DANCING. I believe Brawl's style of crouch canceling, where stun is cancelled but not KB
No offense but when people say it's Brawl 2.0 I can't really take them seriously.

DACUS is in the game? I'm pretty sure most people confirmed it's not. Dunno about B reversals either.
 

topspin1617

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 7, 2009
Messages
154
Location
Florida
NNID
topspin1617
3DS FC
0318-7760-0788
The pessimist inside is a defensive mechanism.

We all want smash 4 to be successful, but by riding it down, we lessen the blow if it ends up not being good.

But if it IS successful, trust me that most of these people are going to be more estatic than a bunch of school girls getting asked out to prom.
I hope you're right. My concern is that so many people seem to think this is "Brawl 2.0 = worse than Melee = may as well play Melee" that Sm4sh never even gets a chance to develop its metagame completely.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom