What if Smash 4 turned out to be a great competitive game?

[The Slayer]

Bowser dittos is far more exciting than Fox dittos, though.

Problem is most dittos aren't exciting, regardless of what Smash Bros it is. And even Smash 4 Bowser dittos @ ComicCon was played at the skill experience of a couple of hours or days at best. I can tell it would be just as boring as any other Smash Bros game when it's played with well-trained players. Heck, it might not be Bowser dittos you'll be seeing in the future.

 

[xxEliteAlicexx]

If it's a great competitive game, that would be fantastic. It would totally knock down all those Melee vs. Brawl stupid arguments.

LOL what if casuals made a "Project B" if it was competitive

LOL

 

[Senario]

Bowser dittos is far more exciting than Fox dittos, though.

Eh, they'll be the same after a year with the game lol. Most dittos aren't "fun" by some peoples standards but it depends who you ask.

Falcon dittos and Falco dittos are pretty interesting imo or at the very least fun to play for the players.

 

[GeNo-BreaKer]

You are a prime example of the people I'm talking about, thanks for proving my point.

So I annoy you for criticising a video game? Good to know that a stranger's negative comment on a Nintendo game can hurt your feelings.

 

[xxEliteAlicexx]

"Waaahhhh!! Stop disliking what I like!"

"Waaahhhh!! Stop disliking what I like!" Really? Lol Gg

So I annoy you for criticising a video game? Good to know that a stranger's negative comment on a Nintendo game can hurt your feelings.

Nah, you annoy that person because of that little d*ck wad move you said when replying to a message that didn't need a sh*tty reply such as that. Just thought you wanted to know, because I was going to reply as well but went against it... up until now. ;] Hope you found your answer.

Edit: BACK ON LE TOPIC!!! That would be amazing, considering even though I play both casualy and competitively, my friends who I play casualty with LOVES balance etc. So I'd be a happy bro.

 

[Aninymouse]

Please refrain from cussing each other out over video games. I know everybody has a bad day once in a while, but I don't want this to degenerate into a flame war. It really isn't needed.

The point is to discuss what life would be like if Smash 4 turned out to be a well-liked and tournament-viable game; a scenario which I, personally, believe to be a good possibility.

Something I've talked about in the past has been a lot of "for fun and glory" online tournaments for 3DS, since Smash sees a lot of international fandom, like Pokemon. Yes, lag could be a problem at times, of course. For instance, I have a buddy who lives in Colombia who always has terrible internet on weekends. Smash for 3DS can let us play together (on weekdays). In-person 3DS tournaments are also a good possibility, but aren't likely to make it past the regional (local, urban) setting in the USA. Very doubtful there'd be much money or prizes involved most of the time. It'd mostly just be for... fun and glory. I'm not trying to be clever, that just is the jist of what you get out of it

The 3DS version has it's own unique dynamics, like that everyone has their own personal console. Custom moves and Miis will likely be used quite a lot at first, unless they're blatantly broken from the offset. This will make a lot of people happy and will be very useful for gathering data for and against their continued use in the WiiU version.

 

[Tristan_win]

Well for starters no matter how good or bad the game is the first six months (give or take) to maybe a year is going to be amazing. It was for Brawl and it will be for Smash4. Once the honeymoon stage is over if enough people consider it to be a deep competitive game then there's a good chance I would return to the competitive scene once I'm back in the states in 2017. This is assuming I can't penetrate the Japanese scene here though

...There's also a chance with how Sheik is looking that I could fall in love with her more then Brawl Sheik which could motivated me appear only to 'show' how she suppose to be used. Hopefully if this does happen I will be strong enough as a player to make a difference as no matter how great you think a character is if your opponents are overwhelming better then you your points become invalid since you can't prove them.

I hate being 25.

 

[yahooda]

If the game is good, then these past two years of hype that started building when the game was rumored will finally go to good use.

 

[Nontoxic]

That would be awesome, would shut up all the tryhard melee kids :D

Then again if it isn't deemed worthy then they will just stick to melee and the bad brawl hack game, which is ok too

This seems really unnecessary. Melee/PM fans want a good Smash bros game just like everyone else. If all you planned on doing in this thread is bash people that prefer one installment of the game over the other I think you're in the wrong thread.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

This seems really unnecessary. Melee/PM fans want a good Smash bros game just like everyone else. If all you planned on doing in this thread is bash people that prefer one installment of the game over the other I think you're in the wrong thread.

I think it's because a lot of the time it seems like the "tryhard Melee fans" look wayyyy too hard for reasons as to why this new game isn't going to be "as good" as Melee.
They look for the negatives moreso then the positives.

 

[Doomstar]

The rhetoric on both sides can get very ugly but to be fair there are a lot of valid points being made that get lost in the mudslinging.

 

[The Slayer]

I think it's because a lot of the time it seems like the "tryhard Melee fans" look wayyyy too hard for reasons as to why this new game isn't going to be "as good" as Melee.
They look for the negatives moreso then the positives.

Which is actually fine because the game has plenty of positives anyways. Also, you're mistaking competitive crowd for "tryhard Melee fans." Though most stem from Melee background, many hardcore Smash Bros players and fans just want to see the game being it's own thing or at least has a good backbone for competitiveness. If it doesn't have it, then it's just back to square one with what most like best, which is Melee/Project M.

 

[Jerm]

Brawl managed to have a scene for quite some time. The fact that Smash 4 has no tripping already makes it more competitively viable than Brawl, let alone all the other additional goodies jam packed into the game such as new characters, improved mechanics, slightly more hitstun, beautiful HD, increased potential of legitimate online tournaments, etc!

 

[Steelia]

Bowser dittos is far more exciting than Fox dittos, though.

Eh. Say that in about a decade from now. Fox dittos were probably pretty cool back then too, because Fox McCloud.

In any case, if Smash 4 turns out good competitively... more power to it, I guess? If it's as fun to watch as it is to play, I'll watch it and support it for events and whatnot. I'd still give it a solid year+ until people are able to show more of what the games are capable of.

 

[Blazeth]

Yo. In the end, Melee players would also like updated graphics, more characters, more viable stages, more music, etc.

Project M exists for one.
And really, they complained about the game in the tournament so even if it does have competitive potential, who knows if they'll even give it a chance?

 

[D-idara]

So I annoy you for criticising a video game? Good to know that a stranger's negative comment on a Nintendo game can hurt your feelings.

You annoy me because of your uncalled-for sarcasm and implying I can't be angry over someone flaming a game I love.

As for another reason, the game will obviously sell more and a competitive boom might push Sakurai or Nintendo to have balance patches and DLC like stages, music and chars.

 

[Tristan_win]

Project M exists for one.
And really, they complained about the game in the tournament so even if it does have competitive potential, who knows if they'll even give it a chance?

I think the reason why they complain is because they can't imagine the possibility of a game having more competitive potential then Melee. The sad thing is Melee is such a accidental masterpiece that they are kind of right when it come to this. Although this doesn't mean Smash4 still couldn't be a equal or better game.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

What if Smash 4 turned out to be a great competitive game?

What if, indeed?

 

[Saikyoshi]

Probably the main reason I'm clinging to hope despite my limitless cynicism is because of one thing Sakurai said; that a defensive metagame, our main complaint about Brawl, "is not interesting or fun". To me, this indicates that he has at least a faint idea of what's wrong.

 

[Tristan_win]

Probably the main reason I'm clinging to hope despite my limitless cynicism is because of one thing Sakurai said; that a defensive metagame, our main complaint about Brawl, "is not interesting or fun". To me, this indicates that he has at least a faint idea of what's wrong.

I beg of you to tell me the source for that statement.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I beg of you to tell me the source for that statement.

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/03/1...-bros-brawl-online-isnt-thrilling-any-longer/

 

[SmashBro99]

This seems really unnecessary. Melee/PM fans want a good Smash bros game just like everyone else. If all you planned on doing in this thread is bash people that prefer one installment of the game over the other I think you're in the wrong thread.

I think it's because a lot of the time it seems like the "tryhard Melee fans" look wayyyy too hard for reasons as to why this new game isn't going to be "as good" as Melee.
They look for the negatives moreso then the positives.

Nailed it.

 

[Saito]

Realistically, if Smash 4 is a competitive game, there will be less arguments about it not being a competitive game.

There's gonna be a ton of ****flinging regarding which game is the superior competitive game though, and it's going to be really nasty.

Melee players will argue that their game is far superior because of "X" and "Y" and Smash 4 players will argue against that, while saying that their game's "X" and "Y" is better, along with criticizing melee players for "living in the past" Melee players will counter with "You're just moving onto that game because it's new, and don't actually care about the mechanics of the game"

And during that whole debacle, everyone who says that both are good games and both are competitive will be ignored as melee elitists and Smash 4 elitists throw insults at each other.

 

[topspin1617]

Realistically, if Smash 4 is a competitive game, there will be less arguments about it not being a competitive game.

There's gonna be a ton of ****flinging regarding which game is the superior competitive game though, and it's going to be really nasty.

Melee players will argue that their game is far superior because of "X" and "Y" and Smash 4 players will argue against that, while saying that their game's "X" and "Y" is better, along with criticizing melee players for "living in the past" Melee players will counter with "You're just moving onto that game because it's new, and don't actually care about the mechanics of the game"

And during that whole debacle, everyone who says that both are good games and both are competitive will be ignored as melee elitists and Smash 4 elitists throw insults at each other.

Pretty much exactly correct lol.

I really hope Smash 4 has a great competitive scene. Not because I have anything against Melee, but because I just think it'd be nice for the most recent game, with the most characters, stages, etc. to be tournament viable. And I really, really hope that if Smash 4 does indeed turn out great, that it doesn't divide the community even further. I think the problem is that, after Brawl, I'm not sure whether Smash 4 will receive the amount of time it takes for a metagame to fully develop, or if it will be dismissed too quickly to return to Melee. I think all Smash 4 needs is its fair shot, and I'm confident that it can develop a very healthy competitive scene.

 

[Senario]

Realistically, if Smash 4 is a competitive game, there will be less arguments about it not being a competitive game.

There's gonna be a ton of ****flinging regarding which game is the superior competitive game though, and it's going to be really nasty.

Melee players will argue that their game is far superior because of "X" and "Y" and Smash 4 players will argue against that, while saying that their game's "X" and "Y" is better, along with criticizing melee players for "living in the past" Melee players will counter with "You're just moving onto that game because it's new, and don't actually care about the mechanics of the game"

And during that whole debacle, everyone who says that both are good games and both are competitive will be ignored as melee elitists and Smash 4 elitists throw insults at each other.

That is a lot of assumption about melee players. You do know that right? It is possible to play both smash 4 and melee if both are good competitively. Sort of like how some people still play marvel 2. Or how some people play newer games in say the zelda series but still consider games like oot and majoras mask to be the best. There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking an older version of the game, and if the new game is good competitively great.

 

[Saito]

That is a lot of assumption about melee players. You do know that right? It is possible to play both smash 4 and melee if both are good competitively. Sort of like how some people still play marvel 2. Or how some people play newer games in say the zelda series but still consider games like oot and majoras mask to be the best. There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking an older version of the game, and if the new game is good competitively great.

And during that whole debacle, everyone who says that both are good games and both are competitive will be ignored as melee elitists and Smash 4 elitists throw insults at each other.

I thought it would be implied that I'm talking about the stubborn people of both games.

But it seems like all you saw from his post was something bad about Melee players, so you jumped to their defense without actually seeing what the post said?

That's impossible.

He's not defending me.

 

[topspin1617]

That is a lot of assumption about melee players. You do know that right? It is possible to play both smash 4 and melee if both are good competitively. Sort of like how some people still play marvel 2. Or how some people play newer games in say the zelda series but still consider games like oot and majoras mask to be the best. There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking an older version of the game, and if the new game is good competitively great.

Did... did you even read the post you quoted?

All he said is that extremists on both sides will probably never stop arguing back and forth. There WILL be Melee extremists who refuse to admit that Smash 4 is good, and there WILL be Smash 4 extremists who have a problem with Melee fans "living in the past".

But it seems like all you saw from his post was something bad about Melee players, so you jumped to their defense without actually seeing what the post said?

 

[Senario]

Did... did you even read the post you quoted?

All he said is that extremists on both sides will probably never stop arguing back and forth. There WILL be Melee extremists who refuse to admit that Smash 4 is good, and there WILL be Smash 4 extremists who have a problem with Melee fans "living in the past".

But it seems like all you saw from his post was something bad about Melee players, so you jumped to their defense without actually seeing what the post said?

I read it, just clarifying because honestly I see melee players get dumped on any chance people get and it really annoys me about these boards. I honestly don't think there are as many stubborn melee fans as people make it out to be compared to how many people hate on the so called melee fan. They just want a new game that has a good basis for competitive play. Incoming people proving why I think the new smash 4 community wont be fun to be a part of.

 

[LancerStaff]

Most competitive players (In the states) consider Battlefield a more balanced competitive stage than Final Destination.

This is before Sakurai balanced a whole game around FD. And then Sakurai is more likely to listen to Japanese players anyway, since he can hear them directly and they don't have 52 legal stage lists. FD most certainly will be the most balanced stage this time around.

 

[Aninymouse]

I read it, just clarifying because honestly I see melee players get dumped on any chance people get and it really annoys me about these boards. I honestly don't think there are as many stubborn melee fans as people make it out to be compared to how many people hate on the so called melee fan. They just want a new game that has a good basis for competitive play. Incoming people proving why I think the new smash 4 community wont be fun to be a part of.

Dude, no one cares. Let it go and calm down. He wasn't dumping on Melee fanatics in general, just the vocal minority. And then he pointed out how Smash 4 will have the same exact crowd. That's not singling anyone out or starting any fights, that's just a reasonable assumption based on experience. The door swings both ways, man.

If you don't think that kind of thing goes on, I suggest taking a quick trip to other online sites that discuss Smash, besides Smashboards: Reddit, GameFAQs, 4chan... IGN, I don't care. Most people on the internet get off on telling other people they're wrong for liking things. And it does happen here, too, just not quite as much.

So let's try and keep it civil here, y'know? It's nice to be able to relax and discuss Smash without too much lashing out going on.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Try-hard Melee enthusiasts even dump on Project M tbh. It's absolutely absurd that we even let them have a voice or let them defend the fact they have one.

There was this giant thread on the reddit a few weeks ago how people who are good at just Project M are actually just Smash frauds because it's 'way' easier than Melee.

Posted by M2K himself, no less.

For heavens sake it's called "Project M" and it's made specifically to be like Melee. If a team with goals that specific can't do it what makes you think Sakurai under his views ever will succeed in making them happy?

They will never be happy with any new Smash game. It's literally **impossible**.

 

[Aninymouse]

There is no pleasing some people, perhaps. But I think most Smash fans want Smash 4 to be fun, engaging, and fresh, with enough depth to keep coming back over time. Maybe some people's expectations are higher or more specific, but that's just how the world works, y'know? Can't please everybody.

Tossing around the word "tryhard" isn't gonna fly, though. All that is doing is saying, "hey, look at those OTHER GUYS and how uncool they are." It's the Smash equivalent of calling someone a hipster: there is co concrete meaning and the word only serves to delineate between "us" and "them."

 

[Road Death Wheel]

And another one, I never outright bash the game without expressing why I feel this or that about it. I'm not contradicting myself when I say that how competitive it is determines whether or not I want to support the game and get it. I haven't made a decisions on that yet. Honestly there are a lot of other games where I'm getting what I expect and I would likely support those with the money I save from smash. Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta 2, Dragon age Inquisition, heck even the sims 4 is going to be exactly what I expect even if the price is a little outlandish in general right now compared to the previous games I mentioned. As much as some people hate sequels there is a good reason why they sell, fans of the first game know what to expect out of the second game because they likely will be similar. Having them drastically different alienates that fanbase of the previous game.

That said, insinuating I'm not smart, ok lol "Before making silly statements understand who you are talking to!" Guy. I never pointed out a specific community where the people I want to avoid come from. They come from all communities unfortunately, the melee community is great on a tournament level because you go there and act like that and most people would set you straight. But there are people from all around who will be jerks plain and simple and there are quite a few people who want to force Smash 4 down the throats of dissenters of the game. You see a lot of them on these forums and I have to say that they aren't making a good case for the eventual smash 4 community in general. Dissenters may leave, but those people never will and that is concerning considering part of the reason that Melee is so popular is that the community has a lot of good, friendly players, going to tournaments you can meet a lot of people and make a lot of friends and that is part of the reason why it is so successful. The sense of a good community is important.

EDIT: I think that if the "If the game is bad competitively" thread is locked this thread should be locked too for consistency.

2 be fair street fighter 3 plays way differently from 4.

 

[LancerStaff]

Try-hard Melee enthusiasts even dump on Project M tbh. It's absolutely absurd that we even let them have a voice or let them defend the fact they have one.

There was this giant thread on the reddit a few weeks ago how people who are good at just Project M are actually just Smash frauds because it's 'way' easier than Melee.

Posted by M2K himself, no less.

For heavens sake it's called "Project M" and it's made specifically to be like Melee. If a team with goals that specific can't do it what makes you think Sakurai under his views ever will succeed in making them happy?

They will never be happy with any new Smash game. It's literally **impossible**.

This, so much this.

The image of competitive players was basically ruined up until for Glory and the tournaments. It didn't even help much since I was boo'd at the Best Buy demo when I brought up tier lists.

 

[Aninymouse]

This, so much this.

The image of competitive players was basically ruined up until for Glory and the tournaments. It didn't even help much since I was boo'd at the Best Buy demo when I brought up tier lists.

Being booed when bringing any topic up is not a reasonable response. People who act that way, especially in public, are not to be taken seriously.

This is not a Casual vs. Competitive thread. Stop it or I'll request a lock from a mod.

 

[LancerStaff]

Being booed when bringing any topic up is not a reasonable response. People who act that way, especially in public, are not to be taken seriously.

This is not a Casual vs. Competitive thread. Stop it or I'll request a lock from a mod.

The problem arises when you realize these people "you shouldn't take seriously," are in fact a very significant portion of the fanbase. Check out the discussion page for tiers on SSBwiki or just mention tiers on Miiverse, the discussion devolves into two bandwagons very quickly.

Well, I guess I'll leave.

 

[Aninymouse]

Most casuals don't even understand what tiers are and how they are determined. Hell, when I first started playing Smash years ago I thought tiers were a scapegoat for why no one used characters like Mewtwo or Bowser. I just didn't understand.

Ignorance can be cured with careful explanation.

 

[Raijinken]

The problem arises when you realize these people "you shouldn't take seriously," are in fact a very significant portion of the fanbase. Check out the discussion page for tiers on SSBwiki or just mention tiers on Miiverse, the discussion devolves into two bandwagons very quickly.

Well, I guess I'll leave.

To say nothing of the utterly silent portions of the fanbase. While the main bandwagons will always be opposing, it's really the silent middle group that likes the game in general, is decent at the game in general, and plays well while having fun, that is probably the largest group.

Ignorance can be cured with careful explanation.

Better than curing ignorance with explanation, cure tiers with balance patches. That will make pretty much ANYTHING a great competitive game.

 

[GrownCannoli]

This is just speculation but IF this game is competitive I think it will challenge the US dollar. Transaction will not be paid for with money anymore but instead For Glory mode matches.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

I think the reason we got a "what if this game isn't competitive" thread first is because everyone is semi-convinced that this game is gonna be freaking awesome every which way and are just trying too hard to come up with something to debate about.

^.^

/thread