What Ganon needs...

[Sweet™]

A Dikembe Mutombo taunt.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

Perhaps, but personally, I would prefer a new utilt.

 

[KeyOfTruth]

Greater mobility, look at Ike. But I'm only dreaming.

 

[| Kailex |]

Purple skin

 

[210stuna]

Purple skin

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=26899

 

[| Kailex |]

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=26899

D: THANK YOU

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

I'd like it if Ganon got a new u-tilt that give him overhead coverage without expending a jump.

I hate not having a safe option to punish unintelligent jumping.

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

Greater mobility, look at Ike. But I'm only dreaming.

Pff, I'd love this. But honestly, it will never happen. The smash community seems to frown upon heavies being too good.

 

[teluoborg]

Your previous wish has been granted, are you still unsatisfied ?

 

[Renth]

Maybe... I'll have a long talk with dark sonic about ganondorf in PM.

He and I played a little this past weekend and as much as I dislike PM I'm starting to warm up to it.

 

[j-slo-3]

something with super armor or light armor like almost every other heavy character has

 

[Yanoss1313]

hey, how cool would it be if gannon's nuetral B was replaced with... like... iunno, summon skelletons! >.>....... V.V

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Hi all I'm new to the forums, been playing Melee since 05-06 and found PM about a year ago.

I've just posted in another thread but I think Ganon is really good now he just needs his Nb replaced with something good, maybe a mid range magic based attack to help him space out enemies, I've read PMBR (?) can't add projectiles to characters so maybe along the lines of Zelda's Nb with a similar use, or maybe Charizard's sideB just with more range in order to space people out and maybe with a bit more KO potential. And I think he needs alittle more grab range, his current range is just pathetic for a character with arms as long as his. Oh, and he needs armor on is Up b since he is to easy to edge guard against.

Besides that I just think he needs aesthetic changes to make him less of a clone, mainly darkness and lightning affect around his limb while executing moves (think Warlock punch/Wizard's foot effect) his moves (although they hit hard) seem underwhelming for Ganon (especially his grabs) more magic effect around his moves will give him a bit more flare and mystic. Also if they do scrap Neutral B I think they should use that animation (and possibly hit box) for his Fsmash, it has a bit more range and again will help make him different than C. Falcon. and besides that animation is a lot cooler than his little elbow strike. I think it goes without saying the fsmash should retain the same speed and damage .

 

[Phaiyte]

His Dthrow is one of the best in the game and F/Bthrow are good for DI traps.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

hey, how cool would it be if gannon's nuetral B was replaced with... like... iunno, summon skelletons! >.>....... V.V

uhhhhhhhhhhh, SURE!

 

[Arzak]

It goes without saying that his side B is useless and needs to be replaced. One thought I used to have about that was that he'd pull out his sword and "transform" into an Ike clone or maybe something unique. That sounds super infeasible though so maybe something like M2's confusion that reflects projectiles (first form Ocarina of Time!!!) should go there so he isn't walled so hard by his height.

Some personal changes I'd love: Make flame choke jump cancel-able so he retains his momentum. Differentiate flame choke so that smashing side b makes the move his old melee gerudo dragon. One of the subtle nerfs of flame choke is that he doesn't crouch nearly as low during that animation as opposed to gerudo dragon, and the hit confirm sets up just about every 3-piece combo he has. Whiff on spot dodge is also less punishable. Super underrated in Melee imo.

 

[GeZ]

As a quick tip to aspiring Ganondorf mains, replacing his Warlock Punch with a projectile wouldn't help the character. Suggesting it betrays an intrinsic hole in your knowledge of the character, so cut it out.

 

[CORY]

It goes without saying that his side B is useless and needs to be replaced.

the hell are you smoking?

 

[Scuba Steve]

the hell are you smoking?

Forreal. His new side-b is amazing. It can be used to punish sloppy aerial approaches, it can tech chase, it can get a suicide kill, it can't be shielded, and the aerial version can combo into very strong moves and finishers. Yes, the move is very punishable, but a move that has this many uses should be made easy to punish on a whiff. I've even started experimenting with extending my combos with aerial side-b's on opponents that would otherwise be too far away for me to follow up on, despite them still being in hitstun. Plus, it looks cool as hell and can lead to even more follow-ups.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

needs? i dont know if he needs it but it would be amazing if his aerial wizkick functioned like wario's downair. if the foot connects and you get the spike, ganon would bounce upwards while your opponent plummets into the depths of tartarus scorched in unholy flames, but if you miss then it is you who will make the descent to hades' domain.

 

[ItsRainingGravy]

something with super armor or light armor like almost every other heavy character has

I personally favor this suggestion. I would like to see light armor on his dash attack, to help him approach characters with projectiles. The same could also be done for his Wizard's Foot, though that move is more punishable and slower than his rugby tackle, so it wouldn't be as necessary (though it would still make sense on it).

 

[BladeOFLucas]

needs? i dont know if he needs it but it would be amazing if his aerial wizkick functioned like wario's downair. if the foot connects and you get the spike, ganon would bounce upwards while your opponent plummets into the depths of tartarus scorched in unholy flames, but if you miss then it is you who will make the descent to hades' domain.

Why? His down b gives you an extra jump, so why would you turn it into a spike that punishes heavily if missed? G-dorf already has a good edgeguard game, it is his lack of recovery options that hurts him

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

Why? His down b gives you an extra jump, so why would you turn it into a spike that punishes heavily if missed? G-dorf already has a good edgeguard game, it is his lack of recovery options that hurts him

what? wizkick already does spike, and it already does punish you heavily if you miss.

 

[bandi]

Forreal. I've even started experimenting with extending my combos with aerial side-b's on opponents that would otherwise be too far away for me to follow up on, despite them still being in hitstun. Plus, it looks cool as hell and can lead to even more follow-ups.

Usually I do the following : Dair to aerial flame choke to death. You ought to try it out , it's magnificent.

 

[| Kailex |]

I always drop by and will always say that I want ganondorf to stay as he currently is.

 

[210stuna]

It goes without saying that his side B is useless and needs to be replaced.

Stopped reading after this

 

[Scuba Steve]

Usually I do the following : Dair to aerial flame choke to death. You ought to try it out , it's magnificent.

I'm glad to hear that more people are using this. It looks cool as **** and does a **** ton of damage. The only time I can remember seeing somebody else do it was Sprawlers against some Squirtle player.

The combo is right here - http://youtu.be/iQh9eMJI1IE?t=5m4s

 

[Spralwers]

On light weight characters that suffer lots of hit stun, dthrow to aerial side B can connect as well. It's also not a bad move to platform tech chase with. I generally go for it whenever I'm confident it will land - free 12% damage and puts you in such an advantageous position.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

what? wizkick already does spike, and it already does punish you heavily if you miss.

It only punishes heavily if you use it too low or if you start in the air above stage (which is almost always stupid), and you won't see many people go for the spike just to go for it. wizkick mostly is used for recovery purposes, to get the extra jump. The proposal would make it silly.

 

[shwickid222]

My combo who I haven't seen anyone perform goes like this. Dair, aerial flame choke, palm strike, wizards foot. And if there still alive I jump out of wizards foot and end it with a fair.

 

[GeZ]

I use the exact same ****. It's so satisfying.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Stopped reading after this

i'm pretty sure it was a typo and he meant neutral B (i made that assumption based on the rest of the post)

 

[King of Hoboz]

Made the same comment in tier speculation, and in the Ganon meta thread or wherever. After a little more thought, here's what I think Ganon needs (more of the same really).

1) Slightly (slightly!) faster running
2) Neutral B - 'Dark Aura'

I don't think Ganon exactly deserves (no character does) to have all his problems fully solved, but these would make the flaws smaller.

My Dark Aura suggestion is the exact same I've always had + one extra trait.

nB would grant passive armor to the next hit against Ganon, either a static armor type every x seconds, or more akin to Rob with degrees of armor depending on how long Ganon's gone without using nB.
This is fair as it lets Ganon ignore some (but not all) zone and pressure options in order to make it profitable for him to approach. It also adds a dynamic where the opponent -wants- to go in and grab as that'd outright defeat the armor option.

My other suggest is that when nB would activate, it produces a 'pushing' hurtbox that serves as a usable (but somewhat weak) OoS option.

There, all 3 of Ganon's major issues slightly fixed to hold his character design.

 

[CORY]

something i'd been pondering over at work:

what if you replaced his warlock punch with a chargable move, that, at no charge is just a quick backhand that reflects projectiles, and as it gets charged higher (as long as samus charge shot?) it throws out a "shield" that just blocks projectiles while moving forward slowly (like, ganon walk speed slow). as it goes forward it quickly shrinks, going from ganon's height at full charge, down to like... mario fireball size, hovering at ganon abdomen level at the lowest, and right before it shrinks.

decreases too fast to sit behind it and just block projectiles indefinitely, i.e. you can't get it fully charged again from the duration the shield stays out, but you can use it to get a partial charge back, if the opponent doesn't decide to start moving against you instead.

would also float horizontally in the air, so funky to stop projectile edgeguards with, other than the initial hitbox reflection.

and the backhand at the start would have some decent knockback fully charged. no warlock punch level stuff, but respectable. uncharged it'd just be some little hit, probably jab reset level.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

That's not a bad idea, but what about acting out of it? How would it be canceled? Just curious.

 

[MVP]

he needs his melee dair back...

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Why do you say that?

 

[shwickid222]

Hr needs his melee wavedash too. He gained more distance.

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

The most basic thing that Ganon needs is an extended grab reach.

Because for someone labeled as the "Master of punishes", he doesn't seem to be able to punish a damn thing OOS unless it's BLATANTLY unsafe. (Startup frames are a ***** on his aerials.)

And his grab reach is one of the worst in the game. He can't shield grab anything that's not balls deep in his shield.

I mean, I'm sure they could give him some cool stuff involving the replacement of his Ganon Punch, but I'd prefer that he can actually punish more things that make contact with his shield.

I know it's not likely, but a man can dream.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I Concur. Give him a longer grab, this is good. Short grabs very bad. Most important, yes.