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What do you do to beat MK and Snake?

Darxmarth23

Darxmarth23

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How do you people beat these two?

Whats working out for you?

I'm creating this thread so that the Marth boards can pool their general knowledge in to one generalized area. Since these two are some of Marths toughest match ups i figured that we could all learn from each other. If this thread is successful then we should see a change in how we play.

We have some people with great minds here. Steel2nd has provided us with match up threads which people should check out, and Emblem Lord has given us useful information. Check out other treads and visit some other boards. After you find info report it here.

Feel free to post videos as well. I'll occasionally watch and comment.

The question is...What do you do?

(This is not a match up thread. Steel has pointed out the match up fairly well. Post what you know. We all could use a little knowledge.)



GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
 
Nightshine

Nightshine

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hmm.. well since MK can pretty much lay out hit after hit I find countering to work well in messing him up and stopping him. For Snake however you gotta watch him closely to see where he puts any bombs on the stage. Staying close to Snake sorta works because his explosives take time to use but he has his f tilt and his neutral A moves that are pretty powerful.

I'd say for both countering works pretty well but if you time it wrong you'll be in trouble.
 
Darxmarth23

Darxmarth23

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see? this thread works!

I also use counter. My main goal for countering snake is just to get him off the edge. I pull out all of the f air then.
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

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I avoid getting hit while attempting to safely land hits.
 
feardragon64

feardragon64

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smasher?o.0 said:
marth is maybe the best match for MK
but the one thing that neo didnt do that this guy did was counter when he tried to recover
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgyYXwr97u0
this guy is a good marth
i think
go to 1:34
Click to expand...
First off, horrible Marth. Dair'ing on stage, bad spacing, fsmash spamming. Not a good marth.

And Marth isn't the best match-up against MK. Snake and Diddy are better. Go look at the MK match up thread and see which match-ups are better. MK doesn't have disadvantaged match-ups, but he has nearly even ones.

But countering mk's glide attack is alright.....until they stop doing the glide attack and punish you for it. Countering recoveries works against other characters because their recovery IS an attack. MK's glide attack is an optional thing, so you can't always guarantee it will be there. If it isn't, you're screwed.
 
Nightshine

Nightshine

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Well you should keep in mind that the vid posted was a wifi match. Wifi = not good for Marth.

For the most part I agree with feardragon about the vid expect for the spacing because you can probably blame that on the fact that it was a wifi match. Oh and instead of countering Mk's glide attack why not try to counter the shuttle loop? usually they do the shutle loop then lead into the glide attack and MK players do tend to use the shutle loop more when your damage becomes higher so countering it could prove useful...unless that is you counter at the wrong time. Then your screwed.
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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I use forward smash and fully charged shieldbreaker.....

F-smash, yeah guys its really hard to land that tipper, but I can land it on command. So if you can do it, MK vs Marth becomes a lot easier ;)

Fully Charge Shieldbreaker is ALL MINDGAMEZZZZ!!! MINDGAMEZZ ARE THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING
 
C

clockwerk

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I think with MK, you just need to counter more, and maybe do a grab+smash here or there. The only thing you have to do with snake is watch his bombs, although his fstrong is a hard hitter.
 
feardragon64

feardragon64

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Steel2nd said:
In other words, common sense. Because that's all that post was. But since its M2K he gets 100% positive responses.
Click to expand...
Eh, at least it gives random facts(or almost facts) for people who don't know. And it's GENERALLY correct. It's not wrong persay so no harm done.
 
S.B.Soldier

S.B.Soldier

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do a fade away forward a at tip range... try to combo using that motion, using your range as a safeguard.. only match his speed if:
[a] he is caught in the amazing f-air combo
MK tries to case you with his speed
[c] comboing the crap out of him doesn't work... just dont make yourself punishable
 
S.B.Soldier

S.B.Soldier

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although it sounds reasonable.. I will give a few reasons why I wont do that:
[a] I do not like (snakes) projectile-based style of battling
I'm not going to change my main to make a challenge easier
[c] Marth can beat MK if you are good, the ratio is in MK's favor but that shouldn't stop dedicated players
[d] I'd rather use the speed and hitbox - oriented marth playing style to beat my opponents... I flow better with marth combos.... snake is too slow for me
 
-Nana-

-Nana-

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Any character can overcome another if played well/correctly, it just might be harder but practice makes perfect.

The key IMO to both of these matchups, much like most fights, is prime spacing especially with MK. Your main focus ALWAYS should be to outsmart any opponent and focus on their patterns and punish them for it. I find strict patterns are prevalent with a lot of Snake players with spammed ftilts and morterslides. These are all punishable and although I usually would never recommend this countering may be a reliable move with ftilt spammers. Shieldgrabbing after ftilt or a combos is very unreliable so don't try that but getting grabs in and juggling with uthrow>utilt/uairs is great vs. Snake. A lot of people with try to use bair when falling or airdodge. Watch where they fall and if they airdodge punish right before it ends with uair and your uair will hit his bair. I've noticed not a lot of Snake players use dair when falling but if they do your most sensible option is probably a tipped bair since uair won't break through his hit box.
Lastly his recovery is very punishable with a dair spike off the ledge so I would suggest perfecting that.

MK is a much harder matchup for Marth IMO. Spacing is very important as well as not being aggressive, because you WILL get punished badly. Stay back watch for patterns and punish. Smart playing always work well. The uair juggles don't work too well against him so rely a lot on side b and anything to maximize your range such as ftilt. If you are in the right position, your up will break him out of the tornado which is great. Also a quick, well spaced shield break will get him out of the tornado as well. The good thing about MK is that he is light so that leads to early fsmash kills and usmash as well. Don't waste them.

Basically the most important part of playing them is to watch patterns and punish accordingly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JmklgxOfNM Neo vs. Plank. just an example of how to handle MK.
 
Punishment Divine

Punishment Divine

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Against Snake you could always juggle, but you'll still have trouble getting around explosives. If you can work around those and tilts, and proceed to get him in the air, you're golden.

However, I switch to DK against Snake. I highly recommend it. The spacing is similar, and DK wins the matchup handily. A Snake off the edge against DK=a Snake who's about to get spiked.

And against MK, just wait for him to be banned, and I'm serious because there's already definite signs of him getting banned soon
 
Nightshine

Nightshine

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Yeah countering can get you out of a tight spot pretty well. Unless they don't attack when you counter. Then your pretty much in a screwed situation. What I noticed in that vid Nana posted above is that the MK used his side B to hang on the side of the stage. So if you see a MK player start doing that I think a short hop down and a counter can get in some extra damage. Plus is helps keep them off and would force them to try a different tactic.
 
Dynomite

Dynomite

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i think the thing that helps the most agenst meda is counter and perfect sheild, and snake... throw the gernades out and perfect shield.. or run cancel shield w/e its called.. when u run and shield which stops you from runnin.. =/
 
RaphaelTMNT

RaphaelTMNT

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I use DDD against Snake, and Yoshi against MK. You can also use DDD against MK, when I was at a smash fest a few days ago it worked out just fine.
 
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