What do the Melee Legends think of P:M?

[Viceversa96]

It's because they're blinded by hypocrisy and elitism.

It's essentially a case of a pot calling the kettle black, but the kettle is an old phantom from a previous generation, and the new age kettle doesnt care what the pot does anymore.


Like seriously. They latch on to the whole, "No items, Fox Only, Final Destination" mantra as if it still applies (which it really doesnt anymore) and act exactly how old stereotypical competitive extremists acted back in the day, but in favor of chaotic, casual smash bros.

They're essentially, a smash version of the Tea Party lol.

LMFAO don't make me laugh while drinking.

 

[MLGF]

http://www.gengame.net/2013/03/saku...-smash-bros-battles-arent-interesting-or-fun/ ^^

That post gave me AIDS.

 

[Archangel]

It's because they're blinded by hypocrisy and elitism.

It's essentially a case of a pot calling the kettle black, but the kettle is an old phantom from a previous generation, and the new age kettle doesnt care what the pot does anymore.


Like seriously. They latch on to the whole, "No items, Fox Only, Final Destination" mantra as if it still applies (which it really doesnt anymore) and act exactly how old stereotypical competitive extremists acted back in the day, but in favor of chaotic, casual smash bros.

They're essentially, a smash version of the Tea Party lol.

I nearly pissed my pants reading this last part.

I'll be honest...I had ALOT more fun playing brawl as a party game with items on and pure chaos then I ever did trying to play it with no items meta knight vs Metaknight camping the ledge.

I think that is a poor representation of the competitive nature of the smash scene.


That article is SUPER old btw.

 

[Papa+Stone]

Found some music by request of strong bad, hopefully for use in later builds of P:M
http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...62.8.8.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.Xvk266OfiMM
http://www.youtube.com/results?sear....1j2.3.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.aJRioNLLmVg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HlbevfkGVQ
just a few good pieces I was able to find, hope the devs can consider these for a sick rock and roll remix and the next tourney ^_^

 

[DrinkingFood]

you're bait is bad and your fishing in the wrong pond m8

 

[Papa+Stone]

Umm no? Earlier when I saw that strong bad was talking about how there were conflicting feelings over his rock album I suggested some good multi cultural music that I felt could be enjoyed by many audiences and he said he would like to hear more of it (gave me a like <3) so I have no idea why youre acting so edgy and paranoid to me. Over anxiety because of trolls or whatever you call them is not healthy or constructive no matter how you put it. Go back and read the earlier posts and if you still feel like im trolling then ill listen. Until then just enjoy the music.

 

[Phaiyte]

http://www.gengame.net/2013/03/saku...-smash-bros-battles-arent-interesting-or-fun/

I stopped reading the article entirely after this sentence in the first paragraph:
>>None of them played with items on, and they all used highly defensive strategies rather than the more varied and frantic button-mashing that made the game unique and fun in the first place.

I can understand most of this, because I'm pretty sure the article is about Brawl, in which case he kinda has a point. It's not fun to watch or even play competitive Brawl for a huge majority of the franchise's fanbase. But basically, Sakurai is angry only because like half of the game's fanbase prefers to not use items and people actually take the time to be good at the game. Claiming that his game's fans aren't "playing the game correctly", as if there is an inherent "correct" way. I think I also saw some interview not even that long ago about him complaining about "almost dying from extreme exhuastion" because he couldn't ****ing decide what characters he wanted to implement? Give me a break, this guy is a ****ing joke.

Umm no? Earlier when I saw that strong bad was talking about how there were conflicting feelings over his rock album I suggested some good multi cultural music that I felt could be enjoyed by many audiences and he said he would like to hear more of it (gave me a like <3) so I have no idea why youre acting so edgy and paranoid to me. Over anxiety because of trolls or whatever you call them is not healthy or constructive no matter how you put it. Go back and read the earlier posts and if you still feel like im trolling then ill listen. Until then just enjoy the music.

Super WeeaBros is not "multicultural"

 

[Viceversa96]

I stopped reading the article entirely after this sentence in the first paragraph:
>>None of them played with items on, and they all used highly defensive strategies rather than the more varied and frantic button-mashing that made the game unique and fun in the first place.

I can understand most of this, because I'm pretty sure the article is about Brawl, in which case he kinda has a point. It's not fun to watch or even play competitive Brawl for a huge majority of the franchise's fanbase. But basically, Sakurai is angry only because like half of the game's fanbase prefers to not use items and people actually take the time to be good at the game. Claiming that his game's fans aren't "playing the game correctly", as if there is an inherent "correct" way. I think I also saw some interview not even that long ago about him complaining about "almost dying from extreme exhuastion" because he couldn't ****ing decide what characters he wanted to implement? Give me a break, this guy is a ****ing joke.



Super WeeaBros is not "multicultural"

I thought he was talking about all competitive play in Smash but I agree Brawl isn't as fun to watch or play as Melee or 64 P:M too without items.

 

[Mew2King]

I think it's awesome except when they keep nerfing characters

leave the top tiers the exact same

make the low/mid/etc tiers better

that'd seriously the best answer to keeping ALL the melee players happy and wanting to join the PM community (I've SPOKEN to many so I know this for a FACT)

and would make the game far bigger in general

 

[GHNeko]

Don't you think the game would be silly if everyone was at the level of top tiers though? Especially if they're not as technical and execution heavy as spacies? Why bother busting my ass with fox if someone else gets the job done easier?

And if you don't want everyone else at the same level as spacies, what's the point of balancing the game when spacies remain the ultimate choice?

I'm not specifically justifying any specific nerfs per say, but any well balanced game can't simply bring lower tiered characters up, but higher tiered characters down. Even if there are no broken characters.

As someone who's going into game development, I'm sure you're aware of this.

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

 

[| Kailex |]

I always say you should learn from brawl - Theyre doing it right

 

[GP&B]

Everyone keeps misrepresenting Sakurai's quote (including articles themselves, which is the source of the entire problem). He's not talking about competitive play necessarily. He's talking about how online matches devolved into taunt party stupidity where no one was actually attacking each other or would gang up on others.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Everyone keeps misrepresenting Sakurai's quote (including articles themselves, which is the source of the entire problem). He's not talking about competitive play necessarily. He's talking about how online matches devolved into taunt party stupidity where no one was actually attacking each other or would gang up on others.

Everyone includes the writer of that article, too. I can see how people would make that mistake when the tone of the article is nothing but an infatuation with anti-competitive mindset. But I'm fairly sure sakurai isn't stupid enough to consider online play indicative of competitive play. So yeah, what he's actually talking about there is how the online lag turns brawl into even campier super campfests.

 

[GaretHax]

I'm afraid I wholeheartedly disagree ItalianStallion. The thread derailed into bickering once or twice, but I feel the whole of it, even if uninformed, was pro-projectM.

 

[Papa+Stone]

Shiny mewtwo how did you change your name? Papa stone isnt very good and I need something new

 

[Zhea]

As a TO, it's certainly more popular at my events, I usually get 3 more players for it in SA. As a game... There are certain paradigmes in it that deviate from melee. Base mechanics aside there are more counter, counter tools that I am not a fan of. Lots of anti shield and projetile tools, super armor and the like. Not that you can't use it in pm to, but a lot of solutions these tools address came iut of creative use of the movement system in melee. Lot of characters now have safe aerial and ground pressure on shields. Edeguarding against a lot of the new crewfeels more dangerous than edgaurding puff. None of these are inherently worse decisions, but it does give pm play a different set of values, which will cause disonance and salt if you are a melee vet.

 

[AbstractLogic]

They usually gentlemen over to melee if that says anything (hippo)

 

[Viceversa96]

Don't you think the game would be silly if everyone was at the level of top tiers though? Especially if they're not as technical and execution heavy as spacies? Why bother busting my *** with fox if someone else gets the job done easier?

And if you don't want everyone else at the same level as spacies, what's the point of balancing the game when spacies remain the ultimate choice?

I'm not specifically justifying any specific nerfs per say, but any well balanced game can't simply bring lower tiered characters up, but higher tiered characters down. Even if there are no broken characters.

As someone who's going into game development, I'm sure you're aware of this.

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

TBH Neko I would care more about getting more people to play the game.

 

[GHNeko]

TBH Neko I would care more about getting more people to play the game.

The premise of balance is one of P:M's biggest and most attractive attributes.

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Viceversa96]

The premise of balance is one of P:M's biggest and most attractive attributes.

Sent from my SGH-T699 using Tapatalk 2

Damnit Neko I just looked at your new picture and got scared. AHH PTSD from Sonic R :'(. "Can you feel the sunshine?"

 

[MetalMan]

At this point Id like to directly say to the PMBR to disregard any notion of characters staying the same. As a sequel, Its almost guaranteed to play differently. Now obviously there are things that have to be fixed within the game mechanics but Im sure thats underway.

Just saying, If I REALLY expect Fox to play exactly the same as in any game prevoius to this, Id play that game. Dont fear having to change how people do things with their characters.

 

[Papa+Stone]

At this point Id like to directly say to the PMBR to disregard any notion of characters staying the same. As a sequel, Its almost guaranteed to play differently. Now obviously there are things that have to be fixed within the game mechanics but Im sure thats underway.

Just saying, If I REALLY expect Fox to play exactly the same as in any game prevoius to this, Id play that game. Dont fear having to change how people do things with their characters.

No point in changing how top tiers play for the sake of having new playstyles when every melee low tier plays exactly the same as well but with more options. Just because mario is better doesnt mean he plays any different from melee. The top tiers do t need to be changed just to fit the flavor of the month

 

[Anther]

Don't you think the game would be silly if everyone was at the level of top tiers though? Especially if they're not as technical and execution heavy as spacies? Why bother busting my *** with fox if someone else gets the job done easier?

I feel like as long as there isn't a huge dissonance in results then it doesn't matter the amount of tech skill required.
I just don't agree with you because at a glance you seem to be saying that since they have sharper finger movement requirements for certain options that other character should not be as viable.

If the other character consistently gets better results then it simply means they aren't balanced properly.

But maybe I interpreted what you said wrong :x.

 

[The_NZA]

If I'm reading the subtext of what everyone is saying, I think the conclusion we can all agree on is that every character should be balanced around Sonic 2.5.

 

[GHNeko]

I feel like as long as there isn't a huge dissonance in results then it doesn't matter the amount of tech skill required.
I just don't agree with you because at a glance you seem to be saying that since they have sharper finger movement requirements for certain options that other character should not be as viable.

If the other character consistently gets better results then it simply means they aren't balanced properly.

But maybe I interpreted what you said wrong :x.

Nah. I don't believe tech skill shouldnt be an indicator of how good a character should be.

I was more alluding to the amount of options that spacies have actually.

That being said, a character with lesser options that are buffed to an extreme, to me doesn't feel like good design.
Like wise, a character with a mountain of amazing options in so many scenarios doesn't feel like good design either.

Bringing a character with less options to an extreme to keep up with a character with many amazing options doesn't make sense to me, because bringing things to an extreme tends not to work out because the reward:option ratio becomes super skewed, and in practice, that just leads to stupid stuff in game that's justified by "Well he was buffed this much to keep up with these guys!"

To avoid this, I feel it'd be better to bring down characters with a multitude of amazing options in many scenarios.

 

[Paradoxium]

I think it's awesome except when they keep nerfing characters

leave the top tiers the exact same

make the low/mid/etc tiers better

that'd seriously the best answer to keeping ALL the melee players happy and wanting to join the PM community (I've SPOKEN to many so I know this for a FACT)

and would make the game far bigger in general

Hey there's this game called melee where the top tier characters are never changed, and if you study the game really closely, you can just barely tell that it is slightly imbalanced.

EDIT* k sorry that was a douche comment but for the record i don't think space animals are over the top, no skill, autowin, op characters, ive never thought that since the beginning, yep i said it. But that's just due to the fact as i always see a chance of winning, and i don't blame my losses on anything but myself. But data doesn't lie, and the majority of the people playing it are also claiming the spacies to be too good, and these people are much better than i am and much more experienced. so im going to trust the data/community on this one.

 

[ItalianStallion]

I'm afraid I wholeheartedly disagree ItalianStallion. The thread derailed into bickering once or twice, but I feel the whole of it, even if uninformed, was pro-projectM.

There were plenty of pro-Project M posts, mostly due to PM community members jumping in on the thread and trying to speak for their game. But my overall point still stands: An unhealthy amount of immaturity and false information came from some Melee players (Some very prominent) in that thread moreso than from Project M players. That's my point. That thread showed why you have some bad attitudes towards Melee players from PM players right now. Not that I agree with the attitude, but nevertheless it's easy to understand why it surfaced considering the awfulness of many Melee players' posts in that thread.

Shiny mewtwo how did you change your name? Papa stone isnt very good and I need something new

Are you referring to me?

 

[Papa+Stone]

Obviously. So howd you do it I cant find a button for it anywhere

 

[Fortress]

Obviously. So howd you do it I cant find a button for it anywhere

You can buy upgraded membership.

 

[Papa+Stone]

Shiny mewtwo do you know how much you paid for upgraded membership

 

[JOE!]

Hmm, that's sad. I can see why SB was upset - he and the rest of the PMBR have worked so hard on this project, and to have it just dismissed like that is really unfair. When I read "When did it get so easy to abuse a character and be considered good? Just ask yourself how many PMBR members are also winning tournaments, and you can easily see that they're creating movesets that cater to their own specific skills, rather than letting the game decide what skill means.", I winced a bit, because that's a pretty harsh undermining of everything the PMBR has done, and I don't think it's an accurate reflection of what they stand for at all. (They're DEFINITELY not making this game just so they can win in tournaments, that's a crazy notion).

At the same time, SB's opening remarks were "^epitomizes what is wrong with the melee community.
instead of playing melee because it's currently the best game out there (the reason I played it competitively for 5 years after its terrible excuse for a sequel came out and accomplished more with an unviable character than 90% of the "bcuz melee" crowd ever will with characters that summon blue hexagons and infinite red lines to fight for them), let's play it because it's melee. cool stuff."

#shotsfired

Whenever I disagree with someone, the first thing I do is acknowledge that I understand why they feel the way they do, and I go from there. Even if I vehemently disagree with someone, it's important to establish that relationship of respect and appreciation for someone else's opinion. Unless they're, like, blatantly racist or something, in which case I'm usually not talking to them anyway. : >

Those Melee players don't feel the way that they do because they're abrasive, close-minded people who just hate everything except Melee. It's like Fortress said - we're all Smash players, in the end. Those people probably have a really close relationship with Melee (as I do, and I'm pretty sure most people following PM do), and so they take it personally when they see something that threatens that. Ironically, it's what they all claimed to want from Brawl... a proper sequel to Melee. But now that it exists, it's a bit scary.

Still, the way to talk to those people isn't saying "Man $@#% SPACIES". lol.

I was really sad reading that thread, because it's clear there's a rift between certain members of the PM community and the Melee community, and that rift doesn't need to exist. We like the same gameplay, the same characters, and the same franchise. Not to be a milquetoast, but we should just be friends and enjoy each other's contributions to the community, rather than hatin'.

I hope arguments like this don't pop up again in the future. I'd be real sad if three years from now, there's a huge fracture in the community and a chunk of people that hate Melee/a chunk that hate PM.

Melee vs P:M arguments

 

[ItalianStallion]

Shiny mewtwo do you know how much you paid for upgraded membership

I never changed my name. I've always been ItalianStallion. There is another person on these boards with a very similar avatar however. Actually, there might even be two people besides me with shiny Mewtwo avatars. In any case, I do not have premium membership, nor have I changed my name. Sorry.

 

[GHNeko]

JOE! wins the thread.

/thread

seriously. no one deserves to post after this.

 

[Papa+Stone]

Pokemon is gay as hell

 

[Fortress]

Shiny mewtwo do you know how much you paid for upgraded membership

Fifteen dollars a year, and a lapdance for Shadic.

 

[Papa+Stone]

What race is shadic I dont give out lapdances to anyone

 

[Fortress]

What race is shadic I dont give out lapdances to anyone

One-hundred percent, unadulterated Alakadoof, bro. Where have you been?

 

[Papa+Stone]

And do I perform one of those every year as well?

 

[The_NZA]

Pokemon is gay as hell

actuallly only ditto, arguably.

 

[Papa+Stone]

Oh my goooooooooooooooood

What have they done to pokemon