What do the Melee Legends think of P:M?

[Papa+Stone]

I was involved in most of those threads and your recollection of them is jaded, biased, and incorrect. I suggest you glance back over them. Strongbad's post, while on the whole interesting, came literally out of the blue, guns blazing. Honestly I still find myself wondering if it was even directed at anyone in that thread or on these boards. It seemed more like a resolution to an argument in the backroom than something that belonged in what was previously, literally, just a reasonable discussion of the characters, not to mention the unmistakably negative tone towards the melee community maintained throughout. His post makes some good points, but it didn't and still doesn't feel warranted, it seems more like he is personally calling out a select few people and comes across all-around bitter, while essentially just saying, albiet longwindedly, PM is its' own game and should be developed as such, which it should. However I just cannot get behind his *******ization of players just because they don't personally like something, or haven't shown interest, especially when the few are used to exemplify an entire community. Really I wouldn't mind how bitter his post is if he weren't PMBR, but his words carry alot of weight behind them, it is unfortunate to think that a few people interested in the project may come to these boards expecting a welcoming, united, community and stumble upon all this segregation, elitism, and negativitity, only to understandably lose interest in the smash community as a whole.

Hey hax, i just wanted to tell you that im your biggest fan. I have the upmost respect for you taking falcon as far as you do, keep up the good work man hope you win a national soon!

 

[Fortress]

it is unfortunate to think that a few people interested in the project may come to these boards expecting a welcoming, united, community and stumble upon all this segregation, elitism, and negativitity, only to understandably lose interest in the smash community as a whole.

To be fair to fans of P:M, I feel the same way when I listen to Melee players. I feel a lot of elitism and 'holier-than-thou'-type talk. Which, you know, I understand some people earned the right to, but still.

Then again, I feel the same about people who play Street Fighter...

 

[trash?]

hax you really don't know what I'm talking about do you

you completely ignored the things leading up to that post, months before that, in favor of crying for the poor oppression of the downtrodden melee player, as if the worst of your community isn't several times the size of the best of ours. people in the melee community have gotten, time and time again, incredibly offended that P:M could be anything even close to as good as melee is, discussions ending with the obsessive concept that the only reason anyone could possibly like this game is because they couldn't handle melee. I remember one topic, where I barely mentioned that project m could fit into a more cohesive future (in a topic that was talking about the future of ssb4 competitively), and someone didn't disagree, so much as they very, very angrily denied the idea of P:M being anything of popularity at all.

we've rolled with their arguments before. the fact that space animals are what they currently are, the fact that the PMBR still had to use extreme caution in what was an incredibly minor nerf, shows that people have spent time and effort trying to have these discussions.

SB's post was a timed nuke, nothing more. we've given up on those arguments, because a lot of melee has given up on ours, so we're trying with our own choices for a damn change. we're open to discussion on it, as we usually do on here; the problem is that your side of the debate hasn't been.

 

[Fortress]

Hey, guys, just wanting to remind you all that we all play Smash; whatever iteration it may be. We don't see the 64 crowd coming in here and bashing on anybody, do we? Let's just get along.

I'm extremely new to the scene myself, but having this sort of 'newcomer neutrality', I can't help but notice that we're all bashing one another. A lot. No particular 'side' is at fault, and I think that we've all said some things that we can agree and disagree upon; everybody's had something good to say, Melee player or P:M player.

 

[Nausicaa]

**** 64 players.

 

[Fortress]

**** 64 players.

THAT'S IT NOW YOU JUST DONE ****ED UP.

 

[GaretHax]

Hey hax, i just wanted to tell you that im your biggest fan. I have the upmost respect for you taking falcon as far as you do, keep up the good work man hope you win a national soon!

I'm not Hax, sorry lol I made this account without thinking when I couldn't remember the old password to my original account, my tag is Amphrites, I'm not that good and you don't know me sorry haha. @Cannon, I think you are misinterpreting me, because your post seems like a bit of a non-sequitor, my point is nothing you have used to defend such stances, however un or barely founded I may find them, justifies having an even worse attitude in return.

Edit: Hax is pretty damn awesome, good **** at the last few PM tournies dude you are too damn good. (Melee placing and performance was mindblowing as well) But honestly this is all off topic until he drops in and posts himself.

 

[trash?]

that's because we haven't had a worse attitude. we haven't attempted to shove ad hominems down people's throats for the mere idea of differing opinions, we haven't tried to win your tournaments with "**** melee" as a tag because we don't like your game as much, we haven't flown into unreasonable rages when incredibly minor changes happen. saying "your community is a bit prickish whenever we talk about getting them to help what we like to be even better" is relatively tame, compared to the neck-deep sewage of passive-aggressive hate a lot of the melee purists have for us.

again: I've wanted discussions with them, but that want is one-sided, and it's gotten obnoxious enough where I'd prefer figuring out what to do with the community that doesn't feel spiteful of me.

 

[Fortress]

we haven't tried to win your tournaments with "**** melee" as a tag because we don't like your game as much

I dunno, I thought it was kind of funny. Just mindless getting into the spirit of things, was the way I saw it. I prefer P:M and the community around it because I got attached to it first, but it was nice to see everybody just having fun. Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

...haha... ha... salt.

 

[Papa+Stone]

I heard about hax winning a pm tournament with the f pm tag are any of the matches uploaded to youtube or anything? And what tournament was it it

 

[Fortress]

I heard about hax winning a pm tournament with the f pm tag are any of the matches uploaded to youtube or anything? And what tournament was it it

I thought it was BH3, but I could be wrong. Wait, you said P:M Tournament? Yeah, I'm wrong.

 

[Papa+Stone]

I'm not Hax, sorry lol I made this account without thinking when I couldn't remember the old password to my original account, my tag is Amphrites, I'm not that good and you don't know me sorry haha. @Cannon, I think you are misinterpreting me, because your post seems like a bit of a non-sequitor, my point is nothing you have used to defend such stances, however un or barely founded I may find them, justifies having an even worse attitude in return.

Edit: Hax is pretty damn awesome, good **** at the last few PM tournies dude you are too damn good. (Melee placing and performance was mindblowing as well) But honestly this is all off topic until he drops in and posts himself.

Dont be so modest hax, you are an american hero!

 

[TreK]

It would be funny if we didn't have an history of five years of community split due to basically the same thing behind us, I guess.
Especially being on the losing side two times in a row lolz.

 

[GaretHax]

that's because we haven't had a worse attitude. we haven't attempted to shove ad hominems down people's throats for the mere idea of differing opinions, we haven't tried to win your tournaments with "**** melee" as a tag because we don't like your game as much, we haven't flown into unreasonable rages when incredibly minor changes happen. saying "your community is a bit prickish whenever we talk about getting them to help what we like to be even better" is relatively tame, compared to the neck-deep sewage of passive-aggressive hate a lot of the melee purists have for us.

again: I've wanted discussions with them, but that want is one-sided, and it's gotten obnoxious enough where I'd prefer figuring out what to do with the community that doesn't feel spiteful of me.

What exactly do you think "cuz melee", "just play melee", "braindead spacie players", constitutes? I'm sorry you have obviously had some bad experiences, I haven't shared them. IIRC Hax is known for having some interesting tag choices and who's business is it if one guy may not like the project, if you didn't know who he was you wouldn't give a damn. Your whole argument is constructed of the very form of logic you claim to dislike man, I'm afraid I just don't get it, also stop using the phrase "we". Speaking for others is a very unhealthy habit and always regrettable in the long run, there are obviously those of us in the "we" category who feel differently.

@TENEBAN, This is a completely different scenario for obvious reasons and it isn't unreasonable to think that the community can be better this time around, imo it already is and/or was for 4-5 years, oddly enough the hate seems to be focused in the PM threads and directed outwards is all I'm saying.

 

[Papa+Stone]

Yeah you tell em hax woo!

 

[Fortress]

"braindead spacie players",

I don't know who gets off saying that. I can't begin to wrap my head around how to not kill myself with Falco, or do any of their advanced tech.

 

[trash?]

What exactly do you think "cuz melee", "just play melee", "braindead spacie players", constitutes?

actual criticisms. people don't say this in a bubble; the idea that something that isn't melee should be shunned on the basis that it wasn't melee was a pretty popular argument until the greater community started to shame that idea, not to mention that the argument against the loss of shine invincibility was that mixing up took slightly more effort (not to say spacies aren't skillful; however, the mangos and dr. pps of the space animal world are few and far between). again, not something that just happened, it's something that came up slowly over time.

Your whole argument is constructed of the very form of logic you claim to dislike

at no point has my argument been anything past "I'd discuss with the greater melee community more if they weren't hostile to the idea". I'm willing to discuss when needed, I just wish others did just as well (which, certainly, I'll say you're 100x better with by comparison, so I'll concede to the idea that I was a bit rude to you in particular, sorry about that)

also stop using the phrase "we". Speaking for others is a very unhealthy habit and always regrettable in the long run, there are obviously those of us in the "we" category who feel differently

I only say "we" when I know that, as a greater community (meaning: not EVERYONE, but certainly a majority of us), we do certain things, good or bad. as a greater community? we kind of do shun a lot of melee purist mindsets, as I'm sure you'd agree with. I just believe that it's not as wholly unjustifiable as you believe it to be

 

[Fortress]

I only say "we" when I know that, as a greater community (meaning: not EVERYONE, but certainly a majority of us), we do certain things, good or bad. as a greater community? we kind of do shun a lot of melee purist mindsets, as I'm sure you'd agree with. I just believe that it's not as wholly unjustifiable as you believe it to be

Not to blow off your entire post, jump into your discussion, or discredit anything you'd had to say, but I think it's unfair to refer to us as a "greater community". We're a community, we're a different community. We're not objectively better than the Melee community, just like they are not with us, or any one community for that mater.

I, as a newcomer, believe it unjustifiable when anybody from any of our little communities shuns one another outright. I mean, we're all here to improve our skills, talk Smash, and just play, right? That's what brought me here, anyway.

 

[trash?]

wrong description of the term I was using; I mean greater as in the whole, not referring to a quality

 

[Juushichi]

I think you are confusing the idea of "greater" in his post, Fortress.

 

[Nausicaa]

**** all you scrubs.
*have not taken it too far yet...
*must go harder, faster, and stronger too...

 

[GaretHax]

I'm saying if they like it more let them play it, and labeling them as one thing or another just makes people within this community seem judgmental and intolerant. I haven't met anyone who is a melee purist, or any of the labels being thrown around these days, I've met people who think PM is a cool idea and like aspects of it and might take issue with some things here and there, or even dislike it. But that is their deal, their opinion, why judge them for it? Especially when they are actually still willing to support it by playing it in the first place. Or even if they aren't willing to support the project in its' current form, talking about large groups of players as an imaginary denomination doesn't accomplish anything, it just makes people look foolish. There are alot of PM players out there from Melee, Brawl, 64, and newcomers to the scene, I just don't see how having all this toxicity is going to further the goals of the project. As a community it would be ideal if this game could be represented the way it is on streams and demo videos, a friendly group of people interested in forging ahead without Nintendo and making a smash game for and by the community. This project has so much potential and it really is incredible what has thusly been accomplished by the pmbr. But the PR just isn't what it used to be and neither is the online community, alot of names have come and gone, and honestly I don't want to see anymore go, as a community we as people must find a way to better represent this project and bring people in, not bicker, stereotype, and lash out amongst ourselves and the other communities represented on these boards. "we" need to be mindful that everything one says in someway represents this project and the community, and should work towards its' betterment. I just don't feel that is where things were heading. The project keeps better, but the forums got a little worse bit by bit.

Also stop calling me Hax lol, I'm NOT Hax, he is lightyears better than I am at this game.

 

[trash?]

I'd like to iterate on that:

I do absolutely agree with not allowing elitism. arguably, it's what creates the separation between smash communities as a whole. my opinion here is not that elitism is okay, it's that I don't believe "growing tired of the same arguments repeated ad infinitum" is very elitist; I'd go as far as to say it's actually a pretty reasonable response. I will discuss with anyone who is willing to speak for themselves, but saying the same things from a place of ignorance over and over (again, see the "fox/falco hate" thread for that) feels like a worthless cause to me. I doubt their minds are going to be changed from what I or anyone else tells them, and I'd rather have discussions with people who I can talk with. the P:M side of things has these kind of people (don't even have to look too hard in the topic list to figure out where they land, really), and I treat them in the same way; still listening, but willing to drop it when it's clear it's bound to not go many places.

I feel like we're mostly agreeing here, with mostly a single difference between us. I dunno.

 

[Fortress]

I think you are confusing the idea of "greater" in his post, Fortress.

Roger, roger.

Why am I not getting any update alerts...

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Not to blow off your entire post, jump into your discussion, or discredit anything you'd had to say, but I think it's unfair to refer to us as a "greater community". We're a community, we're a different community. We're not objectively better than the Melee community, just like they are not with us, or any one community for that mater.

I, as a newcomer, believe it unjustifiable when anybody from any of our little communities shuns one another outright. I mean, we're all here to improve our skills, talk Smash, and just play, right? That's what brought me here, anyway.

haha dude your ****ing cool, anyways this is the very same mentality that i thought the majority of PM players have (and me too), i just can't call myself a PM player, not yet anyways(3.0!!!!) but i think this conversation has gone far enough, but i'm glad its been done reasonably, but its not the place, and again i'm sorry since it seems my post caused another 2 pages of this

It would be funny if we didn't have an history of five years of community split due to basically the same thing behind us, I guess.
Especially being on the losing side two times in a row lolz.

i just wanted to answer your question on the previous page about why we (or I) would want to keep on playing my old main in PM

the thing is not all melee players want to exclusively use just their old main, i for one have taken snake, lucas, wario, and wolf as char. i'll be using in PM, their just so much fun, and new as well, its always refreshing to use them, and lucas feels just right for me, probably my fav out of all of them. Oh and its interesting to use fox/falco against all of these new threats, plus all of the melee vets that have been revamped like bowser, mario, roy (he could go far i think), mewtwo (i think he's a top contender honestly) zelda, etc.

basically, i think any relatively new melee player (i got into melee in 2011) would love PM as i do, bc it is a game that will die, no matter how sad it sounds

 

[Fortress]

haha dude your ****ing cool

Wait, are you being straight with me? Because I thought you were being sarcastic.

 

[Viceversa96]

I can't remember exactly what thread it was (I think it was a thread in the Melee boards), where Melee players were asked what would get them into PM. This thread was set up very innocently, where the question was designed to gain honest feedback from the Melee players and their mindsets for not putting more time into PM.

Some of the responses were very valid. Some were waiting on their favorite character to be added. Some were waiting on the rest of the engine fixes. Some wanted to wait til it went gold so they could practice it without fearing too many future changes. Some even brought up valid complaints about certain aspects they didn't like, not that I agreed with them, but they were valid complaints nonetheless.

A surprisingly large portion of the responses were quite the opposite. Some were short and to the point with things like, "I will never get into it cuz Melee will always be better." Other responses were more like attacks saying things like "I hope the PM scene dies so it doesn't get in the way of the Melee scene at tournaments." Some even wrote large posts attacking the game for less valid reasoning and many also attacked the PMBR themselves. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I was just explaining why you might find people who are more prone to disliking a large section of the Melee community.

Basically, a significant portion of the Melee community did say they didn't play PM because it sucked, or because it wasn't Melee, etc.

That being said, of course there are plenty of PM board members who could use attitude adjustments. And many also hate on Fox and Falco. Sadly, some extend that hate to Fox and Falco mains. Some may even claim playing Fox and Falco takes little to no skill. These kinds of things would make a spacie main feel unwelcome. And it probably should get toned down.

The way I see things, the space animals will end up getting slightly nerfed/redesigned. They'll probably keep the core game of them intact, but will nerf their unusual power when compared to other cast members (Falco dair, Fox usmash/uair). However, they might also buff them slightly to compensate, like giving them a usable fair. If you are OK with this slight redesign, and you understood that the PMBR would only go through with this if they believed it would make a more balanced and competitive game, then you're not the target of this spacie main hate. Again, I agree the hate shouldn't exist or manifest itself as it does currently.

Italian can you link me and everyone else to that thread or was it deleted?

 

[Viceversa96]

SB doesn't like spacies therefore nobody likes spacies
They represent everything bad about melee and SB is still suffering from PTSD of melee DK vs falco
But today for only a five dollar donation to PMBR, you too can help fight post falco depression by funding anti spacie technology

That was gold. You must be a stand up comedian.

 

[ItalianStallion]

Italian can you link me and everyone else to that thread or was it deleted?

http://smashboards.com/threads/what-would-get-you-guys-inetrested-in-project-m.337951/

Courtesy of GaretHax. If you wish to take in the full conversation, you must read all of the thread. It is definitely something...

Also @ ItalianStallion, here's the thread you were referring to http://smashboards.com/threads/what-would-get-you-guys-inetrested-in-project-m.337951/ , I'm afraid it went down quite differently from what you seem to recall, in fact a few people ironically complained about the community even back then, though IIRC the anti melee and anti-spacie sentiments were already starting to become excessive then as well.

If you wish I can go through the thread and make a note of every single post I found to be either:

1. Extremely rude or derogatory towards PM, its community, or the PMBR (PMBR makes characters for their own selves so they can win tournaments).
2. Full of false information about PM and the spreading of such information without doing the very simple step of checking facts (L-canceling windows are bigger you guys! I can feel the difference because I'm a Melee vet!).
3. Full of arguments that honestly most of the players making them can't truly explain (Melee feels more organic, PM short hops have less depth, etc.).
4. Anti-PM sentiment in general while not necessarily being rude (I hope PM always remains a side event to Melee which is the only true smash game).
5. Pro-Melee sentiments that border on ridiculous (Sure in PM there's more balance and more characters and new tech and new features and an entirely new metagame to explore, but it's no Melee. Melee, now there's a game!)
6. Aversion to mods (PM will always be inferior to Melee due to it being a mod).
7. Stupid posts in general. One person wrote that the reason why they don't play PM is because it doesn't feel like Melee. They then went on to say that PM is too technical and that manual l-cancels are dumb. So, they want a less technical Melee with no l-cancels, and you still want it to feel like Melee???

I could do this. I could go through the thread and lay it all out for you. Or you can reread the thread and see it yourself and save me some work. It most definitely went down how I'm describing it. There was even a rather large portion of the discussion that had me being attacked as a fanboy when I had done nothing to inspire such spite.

Again, not saying that there weren't good posts in there by the Melee community, nor am I saying there weren't bad posts by the PM community, but if you truly look objectively at the whole thread, the Melee community was way more immature than the PM community in this thread.

 

[Viceversa96]

Wasn't Sakurai quoted as saying something along the lines of Project M's core design path being flawed, and that we weren't playing Smash 'correctly' or enjoying it the way we were supposed to? I know I've seen that out there.

I read that post here http://www.gengame.net/2013/03/saku...-smash-bros-battles-arent-interesting-or-fun/ HOLY **** what a stupid thing to say. He said he's going to "deal with" competitive play in the next game. I don't care what anyone says but having a random Bom omb appear over your head is NOT fun when you are trying to win. READ THIS ^^

 

[Paradoxium]

Sakurai wants sb to be like all of my other wii party games, on a shelf collecting dust, only to be played at the occasional party. How could one be ashamed of creating a fighter game up to melee's caliber? This guy makes no sense. With the jump from melee to brawl all he did was take out the competitive aspects, which is basically just slapping the competitive community in the face. He's basically saying if we are not playing it casually than we are not playing it correctly. And i highly doubt the competitive community stopped anyone from buying smash bros, which is why this guy baffles me. Smash 4 can be whatever game it wants for all i care, I'll probably buy it anyways for the sake that i am still (barely, but still) a nintendo/smash bros. fan.

 

[Papa+Stone]

I love fox and falco and I wish hax would stop being a wuss and drop falcon for fox already

 

[DrinkingFood]

I am fairly certain that sakurai was referring to the game's terrible online gameplay in that article and not necessarily the nature of competotive online play. It's just that what he said was skewed post-interview both by the interviewer's article afterwards and other articles based off of it, like that one. Just read his statement by itself and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Paradoxium]

im sure he was, but i wasn't referring to that article, i was speakin ma mind doe

 

[Chzrm3]

http://smashboards.com/threads/what-would-get-you-guys-inetrested-in-project-m.337951/

Courtesy of GaretHax. If you wish to take in the full conversation, you must read all of the thread. It is definitely something...

Hmm, that's sad. I can see why SB was upset - he and the rest of the PMBR have worked so hard on this project, and to have it just dismissed like that is really unfair. When I read "When did it get so easy to abuse a character and be considered good? Just ask yourself how many PMBR members are also winning tournaments, and you can easily see that they're creating movesets that cater to their own specific skills, rather than letting the game decide what skill means.", I winced a bit, because that's a pretty harsh undermining of everything the PMBR has done, and I don't think it's an accurate reflection of what they stand for at all. (They're DEFINITELY not making this game just so they can win in tournaments, that's a crazy notion).

At the same time, SB's opening remarks were "^epitomizes what is wrong with the melee community.
instead of playing melee because it's currently the best game out there (the reason I played it competitively for 5 years after its terrible excuse for a sequel came out and accomplished more with an unviable character than 90% of the "bcuz melee" crowd ever will with characters that summon blue hexagons and infinite red lines to fight for them), let's play it because it's melee. cool stuff."

#shotsfired

Whenever I disagree with someone, the first thing I do is acknowledge that I understand why they feel the way they do, and I go from there. Even if I vehemently disagree with someone, it's important to establish that relationship of respect and appreciation for someone else's opinion. Unless they're, like, blatantly racist or something, in which case I'm usually not talking to them anyway. : >

Those Melee players don't feel the way that they do because they're abrasive, close-minded people who just hate everything except Melee. It's like Fortress said - we're all Smash players, in the end. Those people probably have a really close relationship with Melee (as I do, and I'm pretty sure most people following PM do), and so they take it personally when they see something that threatens that. Ironically, it's what they all claimed to want from Brawl... a proper sequel to Melee. But now that it exists, it's a bit scary.

Still, the way to talk to those people isn't saying "Man $@#% SPACIES". lol.

I was really sad reading that thread, because it's clear there's a rift between certain members of the PM community and the Melee community, and that rift doesn't need to exist. We like the same gameplay, the same characters, and the same franchise. Not to be a milquetoast, but we should just be friends and enjoy each other's contributions to the community, rather than hatin'.

I hope arguments like this don't pop up again in the future. I'd be real sad if three years from now, there's a huge fracture in the community and a chunk of people that hate Melee/a chunk that hate PM.

 

[Juushichi]

What a good post.

 

[Strong Badam]

I think Super Smash Bros. Melee is a very good competitive game. I do not hate Melee. I don't understand this supposed notion of Melee hate people seem to attribute to me.
From an interview earlier this year:

"In the competitive perspective, what makes Melee stand out from the other games in the series?"

To put it simply, Melee got a lot of things right. The general gameplay even among floatier members of the cast is rather fast-paced, yet rewards an intimate demonstration of precision and finesse even in this often hectic and chaotic environment. The ledge introduces a dynamic similar to corner pressure in a traditional fighter, where the edgeguarder has a distinct positional and risk advantage but the recovering player still has defensive options to fight back to the center. Its combo game is deep and free-flowing, emphasizing improvization over bread and butter due to the introduction of Directional Influence as a mechanic and the concept of moves dealing more knockback and histun as percent increases. Many "0-deaths" you may see are actually strings of 2-3 hits formed into one by taking advantage of a staggered position against their opponent to land further "first hits." In contrast, Brawl's combo game is either non-existent or filled with "auto-combos" where the victim can do nothing to prevent them or make them more difficult for the attacker. Melee provides a great balance of offensive and defensive options that make each hard-earned skills rather than matters of fact. All of these factors and more culminate into one well-oiled machine, and it's no wonder that it still sees competitive play 12 years and a sequel later.

Are these the words of someone who hates the subject matter? I'd like to think they aren't. I can't even imagine how friendly praise would be using that metric.

The problem comes when aspects of Melee contribute negatively to PM (yes, it has flaws here and there, otherwise PM would have no purpose and we'd all just play Melee), and even worse when people insist that things remain unchanged despite not even playing or having any intention of playing the game. It puts the PMBR in an awkward position where they're vehemently assured by fans of Rock music to cater our Rock album to their specifications (which makes our Rock album worse), all the while mentioning that there's no way in hell that they'll listen to our album simply because it isn't their Rock album and never will be, even if it ends up being better. It's not hard to see where the frustration comes from here.

 

[Papa+Stone]

If you just put in some naruto opening music then everyone should be satisfied. Ill see if I can find some good examples for you. Full metal alchemist has some killer somgs as well, so I recommend that for when you decide to set up another large tournament

 

[Fortress]

This guy makes no sense.

But, it's the all-nonsense, throw-darts-at-board-style design method and overall wackiness that we hope he retains. He's on a wonderful streak of absolute cosmic luck, with two of the three titles turning out to be a blast. All of his wackiness and backwardsness aside, I hope he keeps on keeping on.

I read that post herehttp://www.gengame.net/2013/03/saku...-smash-bros-battles-arent-interesting-or-fun/HOLY **** what a stupid thing to say. He said he's going to "deal with" competitive play in the next game. I don't care what anyone says but having a random Bom omb appear over your head is NOT fun when you are trying to win. READ THIS ^^

Personally, I don't get how anybody can look at a competitive scene, and tell competitive players that they're playing incorrectly because they aren't using items. Items create such imbalanced and inconsistent matches, I don't get how that doesn't make sense. Sure, for your casual brawler it's fine, but for your regular competitive player?

 

[GHNeko]

It's because they're blinded by hypocrisy and elitism.

It's essentially a case of a pot calling the kettle black, but the kettle is an old phantom from a previous generation, and the new age kettle doesnt care what the pot does anymore.


Like seriously. They latch on to the whole, "No items, Fox Only, Final Destination" mantra as if it still applies (which it really doesnt anymore) and act exactly how old stereotypical competitive extremists acted back in the day, but in favor of chaotic, casual smash bros.

They're essentially, a smash version of the Tea Party lol.